Unofficial weight reduction thread

[TURBO2GO]

Can you post better pictures of the top post? I can't quite get my rings to seat all the way down on the odyssey posts and so they are a little easy to pull off. The battery enclosure itself prevents me from pushing the rings all the way down as the wire catches the top of the enclosure.

- - - Updated - - -

I will also buy a copy of your radio cover because that's how mine looks now too.

 

[phryxis]

Sure, I'll take a better pic when I get home.

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Here's a better pic. As you can see, I actually use the angled brackets to bring the posts forward. It helped a lot with how sunken in the posts are in the battery.

 

[Blackhorse06]

OK, I am VERY intrigued by this! Phryxis, count me in when the production model is done.

 

[tsuchiya]

Weight reduction isn't about lowering the final weight of the car. It's about lowering the center of gravity, improving the moment of inertia, and balancing the weight distribution on the car. A car with too low of a final weight will just float without traction. Moreover, the suspension will have to be recalibrated. Honda's Type-R engineers themselves say not to mess with the weight because the suspension has been engineered to a very high degree of precision. They say to focus on improving the engine output instead.

 

[TURBO2GO]

Weight reduction isn't about lowering the final weight of the car. It's about lowering the center of gravity, improving the moment of inertia, and balancing the weight distribution on the car. A car with too low of a final weight will just float without traction. Moreover, the suspension will have to be recalibrated. Honda's Type-R engineers themselves say not to mess with the weight because the suspension has been engineered to a very high degree of precision. They say to focus on improving the engine output instead.

There is of course truth to this, but in general weight is an enemy. 200 pounds removed does a lot. And I have already managed that much. I am also concious of where the weight goes and where it is removed. As far as suspension, I just don't think most members are good enough drivers to feel that slight difference in balance but... no matter.... you can certainly still corner balance the car or get it to oem balance. if youve changed your suspension from OEM, thats all out the window anyway. And no one here owns a real type R. The standard NSX is a compromise. For streetbility, reliability, noise, lack of driving skill for newbie owners, alignment settings to satisfy whiners an their lawyers, etc. Keep this in mind Tsuchiya, it is not as precicely engineered for max performance as you think. Not even close. Better with the Type R, but not even then because it is a production vehicle.

One of the best mods I have done is the Shorai battery. I have done 2 weeks with no start and the thing cranks right over. I cannot believe how strong and good this tiny 4.9 pound battery is. I lost 30 pounds right away. That and the spare tire, and you are 65 pounds lighter. The rear is also easy removal with a new exhaust, headers, and cats or bypass pipes. A solid 40-50 pounds can be had there.

Phryxis's battery mount is TOP NOTCH. I have one of the first ones. PLus he is getting you a deal on the battery... which I paid a lot more for. I think everyone should have this mount and battery. I will do a thread on it over the weekend.

 

[tsuchiya]

I certainly respect the efforts made to improve upon the original car. The best practice it seems is to tie weight reduction to a solid understanding of tuning for handling. I suppose the creative ways to save weight found here will come in handy when compensating for the weight gained from forced induction, billet replacements, and chassis reinforcements.

A lightweight battery is quite a steal in terms of $ per lb.

Unsprung weight is also something worth focusing on:
Stock rotors are 15lbs front, 13lbs rear. A lightweight set would be near 11lbs F and 10lbs R. That adds up to 14lbs unsprung.
A set of Volk CE28N Forged One Piece wheels would save 20lbs total. (center locking wheels are heavier)
Titanium Lugnuts: save 0.98lbs
Lightweight Tires: Toyo T1-R saves 20lbs.
JUN ultralight flywheel is 9.3lbs, 6.2 lighter than stock. (weight lost here is far more crucial than at the wheels)
That's a total of 61.18lbs of unsprung weight reduced

 

[TURBO2GO]

How are yu saving 20 pounds with volks? or 20 with T1R's. I think you are being very generous with the weight savings there. It's only a few pounds difference max. The factory flywheel.... way too heavy for sure.

 

[sparky]

Weight reduction isn't about lowering the final weight of the car. It's about lowering the center of gravity, improving the moment of inertia, and balancing the weight distribution on the car. A car with too low of a final weight will just float without traction. Moreover, the suspension will have to be recalibrated. Honda's Type-R engineers themselves say not to mess with the weight because the suspension has been engineered to a very high degree of precision. They say to focus on improving the engine output instead.

If you had said "weight reduction isn't only about lowering the final weight of the car" I would agree with all you've said, although "A car with too low of a final weight will just float without traction" is a bit over the top. Perhaps if the weight was reduced by 1000lbs...

All the sport car manufacturers are spending heaps minimizing the final weight of the vehicle. It improves acceleration, reduces fuel consumption and, given good suspension, improves handling response. Sure if you drop the weight one should consider recalibration of the suspension, but it's not a show stopper. For example persisting with old worn shocks is potentially a far more serious problem ... most NSX are 10-23 y.o

 

[phryxis]

I tell people, reducing weight is like upgrading your engine, brakes and suspension all at the same time.

A car with too low of a final weight will just float without traction.

I don't agree with this. Have you ever driven an Elise?

I will agree that in a linear environment, increasing weight increases traction. But good thing these cars are meant to be turned, because once we introduce side loads, the game changes dramatically. Here's an excerpt from an article on the subject:

"Downforce is pretty much a traction freebie. It costs a little in acceleration at high speeds and reduces top speed somewhat, but it adds no weight to the car. That's important because added weight actually reduces the relative amount of traction compared to the total weight of the vehicle. Here's an example: Let's say a 3000 pound car makes 3000 pounds of cornering force at the limit with a given set of tires. That's 1.0g of lateral force. Now let's add 500 pounds to the car without changing anything else. It's easy to understand that the car will not accelerate as quickly because it weighs more and the engine is making the same horsepower. It is less obvious that cornering speed will go down. Here's why. The 500 pounds of weight adds 500 pounds of vertical load to the tires, but because the relationship between the vertical load increase and traction increase is not linear, the amount of traction increase will only be about 400 pounds. That means the tires now make an additional 400 pounds of traction, which means the cornering force of the car has dropped to 0.97g (3400 pounds of traction for a 3500 pound car). This nonlinear relationship also becomes more significant as the design load of the tire is approached."

While vehicle weight and traction are related, they aren't a linear scale.

Moreover, the suspension will have to be re-calibrated.

Sure, at a competition level, at the limit, I will agree that an unbalanced reduction in weight could cause a perceptible change in chassis balance and would require suspension tuning. But you can tune many chassis characteristics from tire pressure alone.

Honda's Type-R engineers themselves say not to mess with the weight because the suspension has been engineered to a very high degree of precision. They say to focus on improving the engine output instead.

Not that I'm doubting you about this statement, but I'd like to read where they said this. Why would they go to such great lengths at reducing the weight on the NSX-R without increasing power? Yes, I am sure that the NSX-R does create more power in real life rather than on paper, but the NSX-R was more about weight savings than power gains. All Type-R variants are lighter, because Honda engineers know that lighter is better.

 

[scammy]

they made the NSX-R as light as they could without dramatically altering the vehicle; Lighter glass between the engine and cabin, lighter material for shift boot and head liner, lighter interior door panels no AC or stereo unless ordered no airbag steering wheel, fixed passenger seat rail and obviously the seats, lighter carpet there is even talk of lighter aluminium panels. And then they balanced the engine like never before to give it more linear power. The ABS is even different to help with the different weight bias, the wheels are lighter. lots of little things to get rid of that weight

 

[sparky]

How are yu saving 20 pounds with volks? or 20 with T1R's.

I don't know the weight of those wheels specifically, but the range of wheel weights is surprising. For example here are weight of 4 wheels for three brands I have:
Work Emotion (17/18): 90 lbs
Advan Conniseur(17/18): 82 lbs
Rays CE28 (17/17): 60lbs

so there's a 30lbs difference between my heaviest and lightest set, and that's all rotating, unsprung weight !
the Rays are my track wheels because they are so light. And they are very light , fronts are only 14.5 lbs

 

[TURBO2GO]

I don't know the weight of those wheels specifically, but the range of wheel weights is surprising. For example here are weight of 4 wheels for three brands I have:
Work Emotion (17/18): 90 lbs
Advan Conniseur(17/18): 82 lbs
Rays CE28 (17/17): 60lbs

so there's a 30lbs difference between my heaviest and lightest set, and that's all rotating, unsprung weight !
the Rays are my track wheels because they are so light. And they are very light , fronts are only 14.5 lbs

We were talking weight savings over stock. You won't save near that over stock even with the lightest wheels. Your comparison is of aftermarket wheels.

 

[tsuchiya]

I tell people, reducing weight is like upgrading your engine, brakes and suspension all at the same time.

You're 100% correct. But it should be done in a correct manner. Some automakers go so far as to add lead ballasts in the rear to maintain a perfect 50/50 weight distribution. We can all feel the obvious difference when driving with a passenger, or while carrying a slightly heavy load in the trunk. Extend that to removing a few hundred pounds in an imbalanced manner. Midengined cars are in particular very sensitive to shifts in weight, which is what makes them the ideal platform for a performance car.

Why would they go to such great lengths at reducing the weight on the NSX-R without increasing power? Yes, I am sure that the NSX-R does create more power in real life rather than on paper, but the NSX-R was more about weight savings than power gains. All Type-R variants are lighter, because Honda engineers know that lighter is better.

When the factory changes the car, they have the research and resources to make the adjustments and compensations required. But for owners making modifications, it disrupts the balance of the car, and compromises the setup. It was on the best motoring special for the dc2 type-R that the head engineer recommended not to mess with the weight of the car.

 

[sparky]

We were talking weight savings over stock. You won't save near that over stock even with the lightest wheels. Your comparison is of aftermarket wheels.

True there's not as much saving over stock:

the stock 91 wheels (15/16) weigh ~ 68lbs
the stock 94 wheels (16/17) weigh ~ 75lbs

 

[CL65 Captain]

You're 100% correct. But it should be done in a correct manner. Some automakers go so far as to add lead ballasts in the rear to maintain a perfect 50/50 weight distribution. We can all feel the obvious difference when driving with a passenger, or while carrying a slightly heavy load in the trunk. Extend that to removing a few hundred pounds in an imbalanced manner. Midengined cars are in particular very sensitive to shifts in weight, which is what makes them the ideal platform for a performance car.




When the factory changes the car, they have the research and resources to make the adjustments and compensations required. But for owners making modifications, it disrupts the balance of the car, and compromises the setup. It was on the best motoring special for the dc2 type-R that the head engineer recommended not to mess with the weight of the car.

This is complete BS.

 

[NSX2play]

Remember the old Ford advertisement that stated a 'Ford Pinto is the only [small car] with roadhugging weight' implying it was therefore superior to the others? Now that explains why F1 cars are getting heavier and heavier..... :wink:

 

[scammy]

This is complete BS.

absolutely correct, take it out everywhere you can

 

[greenberet]

Original 1991 starter: 4753 g (10.48 lbs) according to my kitchen scale

1995-2005 starter p/n 31200-PR7-J01: 3843 g (8.47 lbs) according to my kitchen scale

Difference: 910 g (2.00 lbs)

The new starter installs into a 1991 NSX without any real difficulties. It was introduced in 1995 with the NSX-T and back then, NSXs still had 3.0 liter engines and 5-speed transmissions with the same clutch cases and flywheels as before. So the new starter was designed to bolt up to the old engine and transmission.

The new starter is a bit shorter than my original 1991 starter (which is likely what makes it lighter) so the starter cable clamp (p/n 32749-PR7-A00 in 1991-1994 NSXs) that bolts to the starter motor stay (p/n 31291-PR7-J01 on 1995-2005 starters) needed to be bent a little for the cable to attach without any tension. But other than that, no problems.

Was shaving 2 lbs from the middle of the car worth the time and money involved? Probably not but if you want to do it, you can mount a later starter into an earlier NSX.

 

[drmotorhead]

I have sold my wonderful '91, so all of my lightweight parts are available in the parts for sale forum. Titanium exhaust, carbon fiber side scoops, lightweight wheels, tein coilovers(aluminum body). Total weight loss with all the parts is 169 pounds.

 

[phryxis]

Did some weighing...

The battery that came out of my NSX weighed in at a whopping 44.7 pounds with the OEM tray and bar, I actually had no idea it was this heavy, was expecting in the 35 pound range.

And the old favorite PC680 weighing in at 15.8 pounds without the terminals or battery tray.

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BBS LM
18x10 (Unconfirmed width)
Potenza S03
275/35/18

51.55lb

Enkei RPF1
17x9.5
Advan AD08
255/40/17

41.23lb

 

[MrHugo]

Weight figures below are just for my reference as the scale might not be completely accurate

IN

JRZ RS Coilovers Front: 8.6 lb x 2 = 17.2 lb
JRZ RS Coilovers Rear : 9.4 lb x 2 = 18.8 lb
JRZ RS Coilovers Complete Weight = 36 lb

OUT

OEM NA2 NSX-R Coilovers Front: 13.2 lb x 2 = 26.4 lb
OEM NA2 NSX-R Coilovers Rear : 18.2 lb x 2 = 36.4 lb
OEM NA2 NSX-R Coilovers Complete Weight = 62.8 lb

Total Weight Savings: Lost (62.8 lb) - Gain (36 lb) = 36.8 lb

IN

Volks CE28N 17x8 Wheels: 15 lb x 2 = 30.0 lb
Volks CE28N 18x9.5 Wheels : 17 lb x 2 = 34.0 lb
Volks CE28N all wheels total weight = 64.0 lb

AD08 Neova Tires 215/40/17 : 21.0 lb x 2 = 42.0 lb
AD08 Neova Tires 265/35/18 : 27.0 lb x 2 = 54.0 lb
AD08 Neova Tires Complete Set Weight = 96.0 lb

OUT

OEM 2002+ NSX Wheels 17x7 Front : 17.35 lb x 2 = 34.7 lb
OEM 2002+ NSX Wheels 17x9 Rear : 20.00 lb x 2 = 40.0 lb
OEM 2002+ NSX Wheels Complete Set weight = 74.7 lb

Dunlop Direzza Z1 StarSpec 215/40/17 : Unknown
Dunlop Direzza Z1 StarSpec 255/40/17 : Unknown
Dunlop Direzza Z1 StarSpec Complete Set Weight : Unknown

Does anyone know?

JRZ RS Coilovers (2 Way adjustable)


JRZ RS Rear:


JRZ RS Fronts:


OEM NA2 NSX-R Front:



OEM NA2 NSX-R Rear:



Tires Neova AD08 (Look so Sticky)


AD08 Fronts 215/40/17


AD08 Rear 265/35/18:


About to mount these gummybears onto some CEs





While at it, Did an oil change with AMSoil 10W30 100% Synth, I wonder if there is weight savings from the previous oil (Mobil one Extended Performance):


Lets test fit these:

 

[TURBO2GO]

A couple of things: Used and new rubber have vastly different weights. The rubber is heavy and as it wears the tire becomes lighter so don't directly compare weight.

2) The weights on all the tires are listed at the tire rack. Find the tire and click the "specs" tab and you will get manufacturr weights. They are accurate. The AD08 is lighter than the Z1.

 

[g3driver]

Could you elaborate on your stereo setup. I wanted to do the same but can't find the mini amp you have

thanx

I suppose it's due time that I got into this thread, I'm a huge proponent of "lighter is better". In fact, I even bought www.lighterisbetter.com a few months ago (there's nothing on it right now).

I've done a good amount of weight reduction on the car, although unfortunately I haven't documented the weight savings. I'll probably end up throwing all of the stuff I removed in the trunk and driving to a scale and do a before and after.

My most recent weight reduction project was installing a mini-amp wired directly to the speakers, so I can plug my phone directly into the amp. Removed the radio, CD changer and everything associated with it. I'm not done fully installing it because I was rushing to get it done last week before I headed on a road trip (NEEDED to have an AUX in!). I'm planning on installing it into the armrest compartment.

I plan on covering the hole with a sheet of carbon fiber.

I'm not a vendor yet, but will be when I release our battery trays. My buddy and I own and operate a CNC mill and are coming out with a line of machined aluminum battery trays to hold the Shorai 36AH batteries. They'll be available next month.

I'm an authorized dealer of Shorai batteries. We don't stock them at the moment, but have access to their pricing, which I am more than willing to pass the discount on to fellow NSXers. I mainly wanted to become a Shorai dealer so we could build in the cost for the battery package, so it wouldn't be outrageously expensive, as the MSRP of the battery itself is pretty high.

 

[phryxis]

Awesome weight data Hugo! Your car is going to look especially sexy with the new wheel setup. I'll be following a similar route down the line as the CE28N is my favorite wheel of all time.

I got a semi official weight of 2793 pounds. That's with a half a tank of gas, which I understand is not totally ideal for comparison sake, but it is what it is. At least it was on really accurate scales. I'm quite happy with the number as I still have a few major components to change out, so it seems like I'll be able to get down to the low 2700s without too much more extra effort.

So far I've done:
Lightweight battery
Stripped the trunk
Removed spare tire
Lighter wheels (RPF1s)
Removed stereo, subwoofer, center speaker, CD changer

Could you elaborate on your stereo setup. I wanted to do the same but can't find the mini amp you have

thanx

The amp I'm using is the Fiio A1 amp: http://www.amazon.com/FiiO-A1-Class-D-Digital-Amplifier/dp/B004FSXON8/

I love it, it works perfectly for my needs. It gets loud enough to listen to music/podcasts on the highway. I also got a retractable audio cable so everything fits really nicely in the center console arm rest compartment (keep in mind I have a 92 with the single compartment). Unfortunately the way I wired up my speakers doesn't translate exactly to a stock NSX, as the previous owner had installed aftermarket audio equipment, including new door speakers.

But the way I did it was:
I cut the cord off of the supplied power adapter since the amp uses DC power. I then spliced the power cable into the cigarette lighter.
Using the wiring harness off of the old stereo, I located the wires that run to the door amps. I would have used those wires to plug into the mini-amp, and connected those wires directly into the stock speakers. That's if the previous owner hadn't used aftermarket speakers. I had to do things a little bit differently, but that wouldn't apply to most owners, so I won't elaborate. Let me know if you have any more detailed questions on how I did it.

Some of the stuff I removed:

 

[RYU]

Anyone on here get rid of their wiper assembly? I need a small part from one of the linkages. Care to help a brother out? I'm willing to pay.

http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php/175460-WTB-Wiper-Assembly?p=1723978#post1723978