Tracking the stock callipers
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Si
Gold Member, Moderator: General Classified
I guess everyone have different experience with RB, I am just stating from my own experience. Mine could not last the entire weekend during NSXPO. Glad to hear yours is working out well.
I have also tracked with Brembo GT kit, they will have spider crack after a few track days, but it's normal for these. My current Brembo GT rotors has about 15 track days and it's still holding up very well.
I have also tracked with Brembo GT kit, they will have spider crack after a few track days, but it's normal for these. My current Brembo GT rotors has about 15 track days and it's still holding up very well.
Si
Gold Member, Moderator: General Classified
Si
Gold Member, Moderator: General Classified
My RB rotor held up well for the first day, 2nd day it started to vibrate. The pads on it were Axis ultimate. I have properly bed in the brakes with fresh fluid. I don't want to take this off topic, but for people who are looking to purchasing RB rotors for track, perhaps do some research on Google first.
Oh..... that has NOTHING to do with the rotors not lasting. The vibration is caused by uneven pad deposits plain and simple. Hope you didn't pitch the rotors because there isn't anything wrong with them. Rebed the rotors and/or sand down the rotors and then rebed. If that doesn't solve the vibration you can turn the rotors to get a fresh surface.
I can tell you that certain pad materials for some reason do not play well with RB rotor's material.
The problem is your pads ---> http://www.racingbrake.com/v/main/pad_warning.asp
I have run the following pads with RB rotors with no problems:
Hawk DTC70, DTC60, HT10, HP+, Blues
Cobalt Friction XR3
Performance Friction PFC01
the following pads did cause pad deposits and pad smearing with RB rotors.
Carbotech XP10, XP8
EBC Yellows - don't even think about it.
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Si
Gold Member, Moderator: General Classified
When I called them about it, they also said that Carbotech does not play well with their rotors. I guess if one can live thru these hurdles, it's great.
When I called them about it, they also said that Carbotech does not play well with their rotors. I guess if one can live thru these hurdles, it's great.
PS: Axxis Ultimates are crappy pads to run on the track. They are a street + pad at best. You're better off running OEM than Axxis. Or even better yet - Hawk HP+ if you want a street/track pad (although they dust like a MOFO).
A friend of mine (Subaru STI) has managed to destroy two sets of RB pads in ~3-4 fifteen-minute sessions at Little Talladega. The first set failed completely, the pad material delaminated from the backing and he had to replace rotors. The second set were a more aggressive compound from RB, but were still worn completely away in a similarly short period of use. I'm not sure about their calipers....but I'm not touching their pads.
I've had good experiences with Axxis Ultimates on my MR2, but I didn't think they'd have the bite and/or thermal tolerance for the NSX (slightly heavier & much faster). I'd rate them somewhere between an HPS and an HP+. They are an excellent compromise though for a street/autox/mountain road pad that doesn't dust absurdly (and doesn't cost much).
The HP+ is definitely significantly better (except for that dusting part). I may toy with some Carbotechs once I burn through the HP+s.
I've had good experiences with Axxis Ultimates on my MR2, but I didn't think they'd have the bite and/or thermal tolerance for the NSX (slightly heavier & much faster). I'd rate them somewhere between an HPS and an HP+. They are an excellent compromise though for a street/autox/mountain road pad that doesn't dust absurdly (and doesn't cost much).
The HP+ is definitely significantly better (except for that dusting part). I may toy with some Carbotechs once I burn through the HP+s.
So are you thinking these are designed for slower speeds and probably burn up like butter? Help me understand...
Next pad will be HP+ for me but for my skill level I was plenty satisfied with the Cobalt GT. I'm sure i'm not as hard on the brakes as you gents - not yet! Though, they were steaming when I pulled in and experienced no fade.
What's the next comparable to the HP+ but doesn't dust as much? I would hate to keep washing my blingy dub wheels everytime I go out.
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I wouldn't call the GT Sport a street pad/autocross pad, Cobalt themselves says it's appropriate for "Autocross, HPDE and Light Race events." It's more a HPDE pad that you can run on the street if need be, which I did for a couple of years. See Cobalt's own description: http://www.cobaltfriction.com/compounds/index.cfm?cid=2398 Cobalt also changed the compound in the middle of the production run, the later compound was much more aggressive.
The CSR si also not a street pad, per Cobalt: http://www.cobaltfriction.com/compounds/
I've had experience with Hawk pads and am not a fan. They dust a ton seem to compress more than other pads, giving a spongy feel. Picking pads is tough, especially based on recommendations on a forum, since your driving style, level of ability, track, temperature and how your car is set up/other components impact what is best for you. I'm upgrading my brakes now and am going to try out a set of EBC Yellowstuff, a few friends have had good luck with these so I'll see what happens.
Which Hawk pads? My experience with the DTC70 (Brembo GT caliper) & DTC60 (OEM caliper) on the NSX is they are awesome pads. I would put them right up there slightly behind the Performance Friction PFC01s that I am running now. In fact, I will probably switch back to the Hawk DTCs because the PFCs have an absolutely horrible brake judder if you don't have an absolutely virgin rotor to work with, where I could run street pads and then switch to the Hawks and back without problem.
Let us know how the yellows work for you. I ran a set with RB rotors at the end of the season and they literally destroyed the rotors in two days. They even pushed the metal surface into the slotted area. I took them off and threw them right into the trash. So don't run them with RB rotors, they may work with other rotors though.
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I took
meaning that you were having fade issues. If you're not, and you mean smoke literally that's not really a problem other than you need to really make sure you do a cool down lap and try not to touch the brakes at all. Remember, the rotors will get up there in temps ~ sometimes 800F+ while you are out on the track. That's as hot as the ITT on our jet engines.
You're not going to find a track pad that won't dust. These combo pads don't do either really well. They are OK on the track and OK on the street, and they still dust like a track pad.
There are going to be plenty of guys that disagree with this statement, but I am going to absolutely stick to this.... run a track pad on the track and a street pad on the street. I can change all four pads in an hour, then drive to the track 200 miles each way with no problems at all and change them when I get home. Unless it's sub 40 degs out, I have NO PROBLEMS with running a track pad to and from the track. None. Zero. Nada. And I bring my street pads just in case I go through the set of track pads I can still get home. Years ago, I actually had a pair of Cobalt GT Sports crumble on my at Mid Ohio. I pulled the pad out and the material literally crumbled into 100 pieces. Ran up to Autozone and fortunately the NSX shares the same front pad as the Legend and that got me home.
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Those who might disagree with your application would be fools to disagree with your premise: That pads make a HUGE difference. I've run DTC pads and real tires and, wow, just wow. I wish I had them every time. I don't because I no longer see storing/managing separate sets for track/street as a more-desirable use of time than other activities (still have enough fun otherwise). However, if I wanted to "upgrade" my brakes - I would go back to your application/suggestion (which applies regardless of if someone has a BBK or is stock).
CL65 Captain: Opinion on EBC Redstuff? I've been using these for some mild track days. They seem to last a long time and I don't really have any fade on the track. Not much dust to speak of. They do seem to chew into the rotor a bit. They bite really well.
Si
Gold Member, Moderator: General Classified
My car is used mostly for spirited driving and nsx track events. It has street tires, the Axis Ultimate on my car and my friends car held up fine. Brake dust is slightly increase, but no brake squeal. We were able to run 10 @ 30 minute sessions without a single fade issue. The shield are removed and the oem brake duct was upgraded for a larger one. There is no fade what so ever.
The temperature was in the 80's. I can't comment what would happen when it hit the 90's or 100's.
The temperature was in the 80's. I can't comment what would happen when it hit the 90's or 100's.
You fast guys needs brakes like this 
http://www.autoblog.com/2011/05/11/emergency-testing-a-boeings-brakes-equals-awesome/
http://www.autoblog.com/2011/05/11/emergency-testing-a-boeings-brakes-equals-awesome/
Agree with Cl65 Captain- the DTC60 Hawk pads are awesome with the RB two piece rotors. I tried the Hawk HP+ pads and got vibration from uneven pad deposits two times at the track despite properly bedding them in and then cleaning off the pad deposits and rebedding. I finally cleaned off the deposits with brake cleaner and a scotch brite pad then switched to the DTC60 pad and bedded them in. When I went to the track again I got a bit of vibration my first time out but then, as the harder pad material of the DTC60 pads removed the remaining pad deposit it went away for good and has not come back.
I have never used them. I had a really, really bad experience with the EBC yellows (see above) with RB rotors and there are enough other manufacturers for me to choose from. So I can't comment on the EBC Reds.
My experience with the Hawk pads were HPS, so a completely different class of product, but that experience and the amount of dust others have reported has put me off of them. I'll eventually come back around to trying them in the future.
I'll report back on the Yellows, I've heard mixed reviews of EBC in general and Yellowstuff specifically.
You're comparing applesI have to disagree whole hardily.
How are you defining track worthy? That they don't last as long as OEM before cracking? All rotors crack eventually. And OEM are once piece and they will not allow the expansion/contraction that any 2pc will. Any 2pc SHOULD outlast the OEM on the track.
I'm guessing that I probably have more actual track days on RB rotors on the NSX than anyone else. I ran 2pc RB rotors on the front for over 20 track weekends (replaced the rings 3x) and the 1pc RB rears lasted a total 26 weekends before a total failure of one of the rotors. I then switched the fronts to Brembo GT and their drilled Brembo rotor on the front lasted 2 weekends before I had to replace it. At $600 each, I replaced the Brembo ring with RB replacement slotted rings for the Brembo GT - $400/pr and have 4 weekends on them now.
So I would say they are track worthy.
ranges (slotted:drilled). I still find it interesting that you only got 2 weekends out of your brembo rotors. Did you replace them from hairline cracks, medium cracks originating from the drilled holes, or a substantial crack/failure?TriPoint had Brembo drilled rotors on their Speed World Challenge Touring Car and put a lot of time on them. Either way Brembo's slotted rotors should last you a VERY LONG time. Same with stoptech.
FWIW I cracked 2pc RB rotors on the FX NSX back when they ran the RB caliper too. Wasn't too impressed with them although they will hold up to most people's track use.
I just got back from doing the Tire Rack One Lap of America in a bone-stock ROUSH Stage 3 Mustang (3,800lbs - 540hp). We had slotted rotors and Hawk DTC70 pads. I had uneven pad deposits with these but they did get a little better. They have a ton of bite cold or hot, street or track, and were good on the rotors. I personally like the modulation and control of the PFC 01s and 08s better and whether I used the PFC 01, 08 or Hawk DTC60/70, I wouldn't put a street compound on the same rotor due to risk of incompatible pad material and constant shudder issues. PFC 01 isn't the only pad with this problem, hawk has it too.
Ryneen is using 01s on his Brembo front system that he drives on the street, and also to, on, and from the track with and they are lasting him a good amount. IMO, depending on your use, track ability, speed, seriousness, etc... streeting these pads aren't bad if you can live with the noise and dust. It fits Ryneen and my uses, but we are also much more track/performance oriented.
The Panther Plus pads are also VERY good for street and track use (no fade problems in my car) but also make dust and noise. Its always going to be a compromise. Can't have your cake and eat it too.
0.02
I will send pics of the brembo rotor later. They were small cracks originating from the holes, which didn't bother me, except some of them extended to and up over the edge of the rotor. Over the edge was the deal breaker.
I agree both the pfc01 and the dtc are very streetable. Yes they dust, but it is a very fine dust. And it seems to me that any squealing originates from pads on the rear caliper.
And I remember your photos of the destroyed rb rotor. The more disturbing part was their lack of customer service. I've had good luck with their 1pc on the rear and their replacement rings for the brembo hats for the front. Billy $1200 for a pair Brembo rings is a rape job.
sent from my Evo4
I agree both the pfc01 and the dtc are very streetable. Yes they dust, but it is a very fine dust. And it seems to me that any squealing originates from pads on the rear caliper.
And I remember your photos of the destroyed rb rotor. The more disturbing part was their lack of customer service. I've had good luck with their 1pc on the rear and their replacement rings for the brembo hats for the front. Billy $1200 for a pair Brembo rings is a rape job.
sent from my Evo4
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I streeted my DTCs (lazy) and they were OK. The bite left much to be desired when the weather was cold and you were starting out on a drive or had been cruising (not using the brakes for a while). The squeak got old and eventually they started to really make aweful noises when breaking hard at speed (despite enough pad material left they seemed past there lifetime...and looked a little crumbly when I took them off). I thought my rotors were trashed...but all was good again with new pads. If I go back to DTCs for the track I will swap with something more-reasonable for the street. I wonder (pure speculation - a hypothesis) if the deposits degrade over time given street driving and that with the one-lap you didn't have bite issues because you didn't go long. I have no complaints about rotor wear.
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