NSX to Z06, A Long Comparison

[N Spec]

This is kinda relevant to the topic. My secretary just dropped of my October issue of C&D and the cover article is on "The Best Handling Car in America" and one of the cars evaluated is the ZO6. So I flipped over to the end of the article to see the results and here they were.

1. Boxster Spyder
2. Lotus Elise SC
3. Mazda RX-8 R3
4. BMW M3
5. Nissan GT-R
6. ZO6
7. GTI

The quick summary for the ZO6 was written as:

Highs - Huge grip, mightily potent brakes, balanced chassis, it's a track day animal

Lows - Woefully inadequate seats; unnatural steering and a general disconnectedness makes on road workouts no fun.

Verdict - True driving satisfaction unfortunately happens only at the track.

BTW - Props to the Mazda RX8. I had no idea.

Now if only C&D had added an 05NSX......:biggrin:

This is interesting because the Boxster is open top and the Elise are also available in open top too. So chasis flex has to be prominent right? Can anyone chime in on this feeling and handling and compare it to the NSX.

Also it brings up another interesting curiosity I have. The S2000 obviously is open top too, but it has been remarked as a great handling car. Can anyone give experiences on having driven extensive or own the S2000, NSX coupe and NSX-T? I've never pushed the S2000 hard around corners when I drove it no was I consciously looking for chasis twist, but I definitely thought the seats were hugging me a bit too hard so it was a bit uncomfortable. (maybe I just have wide hips? lol)

 

[Caustic]

This is interesting because the Boxster is open top and the Elise are also available in open top too. So chasis flex has to be prominent right? Can anyone chime in on this feeling and handling and compare it to the NSX.

Also it brings up another interesting curiosity I have. The S2000 obviously is open top too, but it has been remarked as a great handling car. Can anyone give experiences on having driven extensive or own the S2000, NSX coupe and NSX-T? I've never pushed the S2000 hard around corners when I drove it no was I consciously looking for chasis twist, but I definitely thought the seats were hugging me a bit too hard so it was a bit uncomfortable. (maybe I just have wide hips? lol)

There is a big difference between a car that is built from the ground up as an open top car, and a car that had it's top cut out. The S2000, Boxster and (I think) the Elise were all created as an open top car. The NSX was not. The longer wheelbase of the NSX also does not help in this particular situation.

When I hopped into my friend's S2000 I immediately noticed the difference. The S2000 feels awesome and drives awesome. The Boxster I feel even moreso (but its close and I haven't had a lot of seat time). Both flex less than the NSX with the top off by a lot. With the top on, they still flex less and its still noticeable.

But even though these cars are built to be open top, their rigidity is still not quite as good as if they had a roof. The Cayman is a prime example. I haven't ever been in an NSX coupe (a crime!), I suspect it is significantly more rigid than any of these cars.

 

[mlambert890]

That actually looks pretty good. Hey, you can't beat the performance of the car. Just reading that makes me want to get one. I would love to have a big V8 engine instead of a 3.0 or 3.5L V6. This gets old. I need something bigger that sounds better too.

Why not just buy one? Before I got back into the NSX I test drove C5 Z06s, C6 Z06s, Viper RT10s, ACRs, SRT10s... None were remotely expensive... The local Chevy dealer has a line of preowned Z06s for like $40k... Like I said... The depreciation is literally mindboggling and *never* bottoms out on any Vette post C3. They make as many as they can sell (a ton) and they appeal to the "must have newest fastest straight line rocket to cruise avenue in that isn't as much as a 911" crowd so again, they sell a ton... But once the newer higher HP model is out, the older becomes literally worthless. Anyone who wants one or loves them can just buy one tomorrow... Any "debate" of certified preowned vette vs limited production, out of production classic seems silly...

 

[Iceman3k]

Why not just buy one? Before I got back into the NSX I test drove C5 Z06s, C6 Z06s, Viper RT10s, ACRs, SRT10s... None were remotely expensive... The local Chevy dealer has a line of preowned Z06s for like $40k... Like I said... The depreciation is literally mindboggling and *never* bottoms out on any Vette post C3. They make as many as they can sell (a ton) and they appeal to the "must have newest fastest straight line rocket to cruise avenue in that isn't as much as a 911" crowd so again, they sell a ton... But once the newer higher HP model is out, the older becomes literally worthless. Anyone who wants one or loves them can just buy one tomorrow... Any "debate" of certified preowned vette vs limited production, out of production classic seems silly...

It has been that way. But I believe the C6 Z06 is going to be different. It has gotten to a point now to where the only way to get "better" is to continue to be more expensive. The parts being used on the C6 Z06 and ZR1 are insane for the price. Dry sump hand built 427 ci engines, aluminum frames, Magnetic Ride Control, etc. You keep saying "they make a ton", but I don't think you have a clue as to the production numbers of the C6 Z06 or ZR1's (there were only 518 Z06's made in 2010). Sure they make a ton of base C6's, but they don't have any of the materials I mentioned above, and carry a 20K-50K less price tag new. If a C6 Z06 EVER gets to 25K or less for a decent mileage, well kept specimen, it would be one hell of a deal. My guess is that they bottom out around 30K, even after the C7's come out. We don't know if they will even make a C7 Z06 or ZR1, and if they do, what they will cost? New C6 Z06's sticker between 80K-95K now(depending on if you get the Z07 and Carbon options now available). With the new emissions restrictions and economic uncertainties, we could be looking at the peak of performance automobiles, and the C6 Z06 and ZR1 are perfect specimens of this.

 

[N Spec]

It has been that way. But I believe the C6 Z06 is going to be different. It has gotten to a point now to where the only way to get "better" is to continue to be more expensive. The parts being used on the C6 Z06 and ZR1 are insane for the price. Dry sump hand built 427 ci engines, aluminum frames, Magnetic Ride Control, etc. You keep saying "they make a ton", but I don't think you have a clue as to the production numbers of the C6 Z06 or ZR1's (there were only 518 Z06's made in 2010). Sure they make a ton of base C6's, but they don't have any of the materials I mentioned above, and carry a 20K-50K less price tag new. If a C6 Z06 EVER gets to 25K or less for a decent mileage, well kept specimen, it would be one hell of a deal. My guess is that they bottom out around 30K, even after the C7's come out. We don't know if they will even make a C7 Z06 or ZR1, and if they do, what they will cost? New C6 Z06's sticker between 80K-95K now(depending on if you get the Z07 and Carbon options now available). With the new emissions restrictions and economic uncertainties, we could be looking at the peak of performance automobiles, and the C6 Z06 and ZR1 are perfect specimens of this.

Unfortunately, even though there are only 500 or so Z06 for 2010, is there still not somewhere between 8000-10000 regular Corvettes being built each year? They look identical and essentially are especially by interior layout and appearance. I personally think the Z06 and ZR1 should be their own seperate model from the Corvette. It should look radically different not just perform different. So the body form and interior layout should change also.

The Z06 is suffering from the stigma that other models have suffered too. A EVO is just a fast Lancer, STi to WRX, Skyline GTR to Skyline Sedan, SRT-4 to Neon. In reality it makes economic sense to use the same platform, but you have to deal with the precursor stigma, hence the cheap interior stigma. Nissan had to step away from this with the GTR and I feel that they were pretty successful with the move. The GTR is not a G37 or G35, it has it's own identity.

The Z06 needs to be a completely different entity from the Corvette even if it's derived from it. This is the only way to break away from the mass produced, dumbed down, cheap stigmas.

 

[Iceman3k]

The Z06 needs to be a completely different entity from the Corvette even if it's derived from it. This is the only way to break away from the mass produced, dumbed down, cheap stigmas.

I agree with you to a point. The fact that the C6 Z06 has a different frame, engine and price point does set it apart. If an individual lumps it in with the base, then those individuals don't understand the car, or its purpose, and should move on to something that better suits their needs.

 

[BATMANs]

This is kinda relevant to the topic. My secretary just dropped of my October issue of C&D and the cover article is on "The Best Handling Car in America" and one of the cars evaluated is the ZO6. So I flipped over to the end of the article to see the results and here they were.

1. Boxster Spyder
2. Lotus Elise SC
3. Mazda RX-8 R3
4. BMW M3
5. Nissan GT-R
6. ZO6
7. GTI

BTW - Props to the Mazda RX8. I had no idea.

Now if only C&D had added an 05NSX......:biggrin:

The RX-8 is no surprise.

My brother has one.

I wanted to compare the NSX and RX-8's handling so we did the best we could be leveling the playing field with regards to handling mods.

Both NSX and RX-8 had:

1. RT-615 (RX-8 ran 275/35/18 all around while the NSX had 235/40/17 ft and 275/35/18 rear).

2. Enkei RP03

3. Upgraded adjustable sway bars

4. I have Tien coil overs with EDFC and he had Tokico D-spec with King Springs (progressives). No coil overs.

To sum it up his DSC with TSC was making a joke of the NSX's handling prowess. At the limit the NSX was showing understeer and his RX8 was exhibiting neutral steer with the DSC/TCS on and while it was off he was getting oversteer.

I have a spoiler to keep my ass planted. He did not, but he if did there would be nothing a NSX can do against a RX8 - mod for mod on handling.

Did you watch the Top Gear episode where Jeremy Clarkson (who's driven many and owned many exotic cars) said that the top 3 handling cars that he's driven are (from best to worse):

1. RX8
2. Z4
3. Zonda

He's driven the NSX in the early years and it wasn't mentioned.

 

[BATMANs]

This is interesting because the Boxster is open top and the Elise are also available in open top too. So chasis flex has to be prominent right? Can anyone chime in on this feeling and handling and compare it to the NSX.

Also it brings up another interesting curiosity I have. The S2000 obviously is open top too, but it has been remarked as a great handling car. Can anyone give experiences on having driven extensive or own the S2000, NSX coupe and NSX-T? I've never pushed the S2000 hard around corners when I drove it no was I consciously looking for chasis twist, but I definitely thought the seats were hugging me a bit too hard so it was a bit uncomfortable. (maybe I just have wide hips? lol)

The difference between those cars and the NSX targa was that the Targa was an "after-thought"

 

[mickeylex]

I wanted to compare the NSX and RX-8's handling so we di the best we could be leveling the playing field with regards to handling mods.

So the RX-8 had a better lap time than your NSX? Where did you run this test?

 

[BATMANs]

So the RX-8 had a better lap time than your NSX? Where did you run this test?

It wasn't an "official" test on some closed circuit, but rather at the usual freeway merges, on and off ramps, etc. that we are very familiar with for over a decade.

This was conducted on a Sunday early morning.

We've swapped cars as well.

And as far as drivers are consider, I'm the better of the 2.

I also rank in the 99.xx percentile at Le Mans Karting in Fremont which is usually top 10 outta 40k drivers.

U can go there and look up BATMAN.

 

[Dhalsim]

I also rank in the 99.xx percentile at Le Mans Karting in Fremont which is usually top 10 outta 40k drivers.

U can go there and look up BATMAN.

I'm going to go there and knock you down a spot........maybe out of the top 10! :biggrin:

 

[BATMANs]

I'm going to go there and knock you down a spot........maybe out of the top 10! :biggrin:

The last 2 people that tried hard hit the wall hard..... :biggrin:

 

[CL65 Captain]

Honestly, on the track I've never given an RX8 a thought as I've always blown right past them.

Didn't Mazda have to give some sort of after the fact rebate because the true output of the car was significantly less than their claims? I've never driven one, but I have a really, really hard time imagining that the RX8 is even close to one of the best handling cars. But then again, like I said above, I don't usually spend too much time behind them on the track.

It wasn't an "official" test on some closed circuit, but rather at the usual freeway merges, on and off ramps, etc. that we are very familiar with for over a decade.

So you test the cars where you can only use 60-70% of the potential of the car? Whatever.

 

[BATMANs]

Honestly, on the track I've never given an RX8 a thought as I've always blown right past them.

Didn't Mazda have to give some sort of after the fact rebate because the true output of the car was significantly less than their claims? I've never driven one, but I have a really, really hard time imagining that the RX8 is even close to one of the best handling cars. But then again, like I said above, I don't usually spend too much time behind them on the track.




So you test the cars where you can only use 60-70% of the potential of the car? Whatever.

I pull away once the road straightens out, but on sharper turns the RX8 will out turn.

 

[N Spec]

The difference between those cars and the NSX targa was that the Targa was an "after-thought"

Gee, I didn't know that </sarcasm>

I meant for someone to give an actual comparison review even if it was off the track like your comparison with the RX-8 and NSX. Some real world numbers would be interesting too lol

 

[LJSB]

This thread is really getting funny.
What's next?
"My mom and my big sister were switching rides to keep it fair and this was on a really long strip after the bus stop. Later they went around the swing set and sand box to really test the cornering ability.
BTW just so you know, my mom's club name is WonderWoman and has posted in the top 10 at her video spin classes."

 

[jonas1jp]

Unfortunately, even though there are only 500 or so Z06 for 2010, is there still not somewhere between 8000-10000 regular Corvettes being built each year? They look identical and essentially are especially by interior layout and appearance. I personally think the Z06 and ZR1 should be their own seperate model from the Corvette. It should look radically different not just perform different. So the body form and interior layout should change also.

But then again we are talking about GM. They always rely on Americans buying American simply because it's American and they're American. This trend has been slowing for quite awhile, but is still present. Until they get it figured out, I'm still boycotting.

 

[TURBO2GO]

It wasn't an "official" test on some closed circuit, but rather at the usual freeway merges, on and off ramps, etc. that we are very familiar with for over a decade.

This was conducted on a Sunday early morning.

Fantastic....

 

[yojack1]

Unfortunately, even though there are only 500 or so Z06 for 2010, is there still not somewhere between 8000-10000 regular Corvettes being built each year? They look identical and essentially are especially by interior layout and appearance. I personally think the Z06 and ZR1 should be their own seperate model from the Corvette. It should look radically different not just perform different. So the body form and interior layout should change also.

The Z06 is suffering from the stigma that other models have suffered too. A EVO is just a fast Lancer, STi to WRX, Skyline GTR to Skyline Sedan, SRT-4 to Neon. In reality it makes economic sense to use the same platform, but you have to deal with the precursor stigma, hence the cheap interior stigma. Nissan had to step away from this with the GTR and I feel that they were pretty successful with the move. The GTR is not a G37 or G35, it has it's own identity.

The Z06 needs to be a completely different entity from the Corvette even if it's derived from it. This is the only way to break away from the mass produced, dumbed down, cheap stigmas.

Total '08 Corvette production #s 35,310

'09 16,956

'10 12,194


Jack

 

[Dhalsim]

Total '08 Corvette production #s 35,310

'09 16,956

'10 12,194


Jack

What happened? Economy? Only sold half as many in 09?

 

[Iceman3k]

Total '08 Corvette production #s 35,310
'09 16,956
'10 12,194
Jack

Which is exactly what I am talking about. This thread is not about all Corvette's, only Z06's. You just supplied ALL numbers, so what you supplied is useless. In 2010 they made 12,194 total, and only 518 of them were Z06's. That is exactly my point I made in the post above.

 

[91 X]

Which is exactly what I am talking about. This thread is not about all Corvette's, only Z06's. You just supplied ALL numbers, so what you supplied is useless. In 2010 they made 12,194 total, and only 518 of them were Z06's. That is exactly my point I made in the post above.

I think he mentioned as did others is that they look just like the other 12,000 vettes on the road and that ruins their "coolness" to most people who can't tell the difference between the two...It is the reason I would take an NSX over a Z06 everyday....Sometimes the "it" factor outways performance when it comes to cars....

 

[liftnot]

NSX - designed and built using late 1980' technology: 4-valve, Vtec, Ti-Rod,Alum, F1 inspired, MR, almost 100hp/lit...you know the rest....set a new standard for exotic car. Gordon Murray thinks so.

Z06/ZR1 - Latest technology? dry sump, exotic material, 2-Del West valves/cyl., push rod, big displacement, roots blower, etc. To me, exotic items are the ceramic brakes and the Mag. shocks.
If I am not wrong, GM only developed the magnetic shocks not the ceramic brakes.
I am not a hardcore Vett guy so IMO what GM did was to soup up the existing Corvette platform-bigger is better - and gave it a different name and price only hardcore Vett guys can appreciate.

I drove a C6 and it had plenty of torque vs the NSX. Its a really fast muscle car that handles well. The NSX is a different kind of car.
there are just too many Vetts out there, ZO6/ZR1 or not.

Ck out post#64
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139876&page=3

 

[liftnot]

NSX - designed and built using late 1980' technology: 4-valve, Vtec, Ti-Rod,Alum, F1 inspired, MR, almost 100hp/lit...you know the rest....set a new standard for exotic car. Gordon Murray thinks so.

Z06/ZR1 - Latest technology? dry sump, exotic material, 2-Del West valves/cyl., push rod, big displacement, roots blower, etc. To me, exotic items are the ceramic brakes and the Mag. shocks.
If I am not wrong, GM only developed the magnetic shocks not the ceramic brakes.
I am not a hardcore Vett guy so IMO what GM did was to soup up the existing Corvette platform-bigger is better - and gave it a different name and price only hardcore Vett guys can appreciate.

I drove a C6 and it had plenty of torque vs the NSX. Its a really fast muscle car that handles well. The NSX is a different kind of car.
there are just too many Vetts out there, ZO6/ZR1 or not.

Ck out post#64
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139876&page=3

 

[Iceman3k]

I think he mentioned as did others is that they look just like the other 12,000 vettes on the road and that ruins their "coolness" to most people who can't tell the difference between the two...It is the reason I would take an NSX over a Z06 everyday....Sometimes the "it" factor outways performance when it comes to cars....

That is the point most on here bring up. I am exactly opposite. I don't drive a car just to be one of the few that drives it or owns it. I drive a car because of what it actually is, and the Z06 is not a normal Corvette (and does it really matter who can tell it apart from the base? when you get behind the wheel it becomes painfully obvious. The Z06 does have it's own unique styling queues though which easily set it off from the base). To me actually driving the car outweighs anything else. That is exactly why I bought the C6 Z06 over the Viper. There were less Vipers produced, and no base model Viper. But the C6 Z06 is the better car to actually drive and own IMO.

My question to you: If they made a base NSX, with say a 4 cylinder, smaller tires/brakes, no aluminum frame, etc, would you still drive your current model of the NSX? My answer of course is, hell yes! I enjoy the car for what it is, not because of the number produced or other models available.