Thoughts on NASA in touch with Aliens for years?

[flaminio]

However, I believe you are STILL missing the point

Expressing the precise dimensions of the Earth by placing the Pyramids at a precise longitude and latitude, are modern technologies. This is just one such example... I challenge you to do some simple/quick research on the anomalies of the Great Pyramids, then tell us that they "learned all this knowledge" and that it was "lost in time".

Let's take this point then -- that the Pyramids were placed at a precise longitude and latitude. According to a quick Google, the great pyramid is at 29° 58′ 34″ N latitude and 31° 7′ 52″ E longitude. What, precisely, is "precise" about this?

The longitude I would dismiss out of hand, as 0° longitude is a completely arbitrary construct. One might as well say that the pyramid is "precisely" at 0°. Any location around the globe is as good as any other.

As for the latitude, I read some sites pointing out how close it is to 30 degrees. First, there's not really any significance of 30 degrees aside from being a round number, and second, they're not even that close -- they're almost a minute and a half away, which corresponds to about two miles distance. If they were trying to hit 30 degrees precisely, they missed.

Most (perhaps all) of the numerological claims about the pyramids likewise fail under greater scrutiny. When words like "precise" and "exactly" start to get bandied about, and then it's shown that the actual works are not so precise (yet still really, really good) it becomes clear that the pyramids are amazing works, but works of man, and not gods/aliens/Atlanteans/whomever.

 

[95EagleAWD]

Why all the focus on the Egyptian Pyramids?

Don't forget, Pyramids are found all over the world. How about the Mayan Pyramids? The Aztec Pyramids, the biggest of which is actually bigger (not taller) than the Great Pyramid in Egypt? There's pyramids in China, Greece, even the USA.

Did aliens build them all? Of course not. People did.

 

[flaminio]

There's pyramids in China, Greece, even the USA.

Like this one?

 

[enkrypt3d]

Anyone who knows how many planets exist, and understands statistics knows other life forms exist. The odds they don't are ridiculously small.

+1! It would be inconceivably conceited of us to think we are alone in this universe...

Except that ... they didn't.

yes they did... they can not find the original footage of the mission...... (not saying that they faked the moon landing when I know they didn't)

Why all the focus on the Egyptian Pyramids?

Don't forget, Pyramids are found all over the world. How about the Mayan Pyramids? The Aztec Pyramids, the biggest of which is actually bigger (not taller) than the Great Pyramid in Egypt? There's pyramids in China, Greece, even the USA.

Did aliens build them all? Of course not. People did.

The location of those pyramids on the globe form a grid if you plot them on a map... when you think of it, the grand scheme of it all raises more questions than answers...

 

[Vega$ NSX]

Like this one?

Hey I actually sold some equipment that went into that building. In theory, that means I helped build a part of it (albiet a microscopic part). Does that mean I'm a God or Alien??? OR both!?!?!?! :biggrin:

 

[flaminio]

The location of those pyramids on the globe form a grid if you plot them on a map.

Indeed. Show me.

 

[enkrypt3d]

Indeed. Show me.

http://www.dprins.demon.nl/convergence/9917.html

http://www.pyramidmatrix.com/atlantis_rising.htm

This should keep u busy for a while lol :tongue:

 

[Ski_Banker]

Guys, whether or not you agree with me -- it seems like a *near certainty* that one poster is dead set on his "factual" views. Nothing that you post from youtube.com, egyptfacts.edu, bible.org, or iamgod.net will make a dent in the person's concrete views. Spare the additional braincells God has gifted you with, and just engage with people (of *any* persuasion) that have minds and eyes open enough to recognize that what they know is limited.

 

[C-speed]

Guys, whether or not you agree with me -- it seems like a *near certainty* that one poster is dead set on his "factual" views. Nothing that you post from youtube.com, egyptfacts.edu, bible.org, or iamgod.net will make a dent in the person's concrete views. Spare the additional braincells God has gifted you with, and just engage with people (of *any* persuasion) that have minds and eyes open enough to recognize that what they know is limited.

Agreed... and his name starts with an "f".

 

[enkrypt3d]

Guys, whether or not you agree with me -- it seems like a *near certainty* that one poster is dead set on his "factual" views. Nothing that you post from youtube.com, egyptfacts.edu, bible.org, or iamgod.net will make a dent in the person's concrete views. Spare the additional braincells God has gifted you with, and just engage with people (of *any* persuasion) that have minds and eyes open enough to recognize that what they know is limited.

+1!

amen!

 

[C-speed]

Let's take this point then -- that the Pyramids were placed at a precise longitude and latitude. According to a quick Google, the great pyramid is at 29° 58′ 34″ N latitude and 31° 7′ 52″ E longitude. What, precisely, is "precise" about this?

You obviously didn't do any reading via Google like I suggested in my last post.

The longitude I would dismiss out of hand, as 0° longitude is a completely arbitrary construct. One might as well say that the pyramid is "precisely" at 0°. Any location around the globe is as good as any other.

I won't even start with this one...

As for the latitude, I read some sites pointing out how close it is to 30 degrees. First, there's not really any significance of 30 degrees aside from being a round number, and second, they're not even that close -- they're almost a minute and a half away, which corresponds to about two miles distance. If they were trying to hit 30 degrees precisely, they missed.

Let's see, seeing as they (egyptians were FAR beyond the technologies of their time) were still obviously sub-standard to what we are capable of today - in this case, "precise" measurement and geo-locating.

Yes, they may have been "off" by 2-miles, but let's put that into perspective.

The earth's circumference around the poles is 24,859.82 miles. Divide that by 2 = 12,429.91 miles.

The precision of their placement of the pyramids is, as you say, 2 miles off:

2 miles / 12,429.91 miles = 0.00016% error

Hmm, so they were off by 0.00016%... boy, that's way off! :roll eyes:

(you can figure out the math on your own)

Put it this way, let's assume the average thickness of a pencil lead is 1mm, and I gave you a pencil and a meter stick and had you draw a precise line exactly 1m long, you're % error would still be greater than the Egytians at 0.001% and you're only drawing a line 1m long - not placing monumental structures in relation to the Earth itself.

Most (perhaps all) of the numerological claims about the pyramids likewise fail under greater scrutiny. When words like "precise" and "exactly" start to get bandied about, and then it's shown that the actual works are not so precise (yet still really, really good) it becomes clear that the pyramids are amazing works, but works of man, and not gods/aliens/Atlanteans/whomever.

:roll eyes:

 

[flaminio]

Guys, whether or not you agree with me -- it seems like a *near certainty* that one poster is dead set on his "factual" views.

Yeah, whatever. So I like to stick to facts and provable stuff rather than hocus-pocus. Sue me. I like science better than superstition. Besides, rubber & glue: you're just as closed minded as I, just on the other side.

And for what it's worth, I'm not "dead set" against anything. I just want to see some evidence; some proof. Not just random data points aligned in such a way to suggest correlation.

Take this picture, supposedly showing the "grid" from one of the above links:

So, the two sets of pyramids are along the edge of a tetrahedron. So what? There's nothing at the third and fourth vertices. And if you take the exact measurements, they're not even that close -- the data has been fudged to fit the conclusion. In any case, why a tetrahedron? The pyramids are square-based. It's just a bunch of New Age sewage.

It's like the old Lincoln/Kennedy hokum. Lincoln had a secretary named Kennedy, Kennedy rode in a Lincoln; stuff like that. Take any two things and if you pick your data points carefully, you can make all sorts of false conclusions, especially if you ignore the countless other data points that don't fit your preconceived notions.

A poster above alluded to "preciseness" when it comes to the pyramids. If you measure the base, you get 230.253 meters for the north side, 230.391 meters for the east, 230.454 meters for the south, and 230.357 for the west. Huh, they're all different. Not so precise. Close, and very neat; but not precise, and not beyond the talents of Egyptian surveyors.

Again, I'm not closed-minded, and I'm not resistant to the truth. But you gotta do a lot better than stuff like that. There are two mantras that you need to keep close. First is Occam's Razor: given two explanations, go with the simpler. And the second I like to call Sagan's Law, as he was found of invoking it: Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Saying that aliens/gods/whomever assisted in the construction is an extraordinary claim. I'm not saying it's false; I'm saying where's the extraordinary evidence to support this claim? Answer: there is none, and therefore until such evidence is revealed claims such as this must be dismissed.

I maintain my position that the ancient Egyptians were significantly more clever folk than you are prepared to admit, and that the construction of the pyramids was well within their technological know-how without the need of any external assistance.

 

[john@johnhudakracing]

Ancient GPS

 

[enkrypt3d]

Ancient GPS

hahaha i love it! fkin awesome... im gonna put that in my NSX! :biggrin:

 

[Ski_Banker]

Yeah, whatever. So I like to stick to facts and provable stuff rather than hocus-pocus. Sue me. I like science better than superstition. Besides, rubber & glue: you're just as closed minded as I, just on the other side.

And for what it's worth, I'm not "dead set" against anything. I just want to see some evidence; some proof. Not just random data points aligned in such a way to suggest correlation.

Take this picture, supposedly showing the "grid" from one of the above links:

So, the two sets of pyramids are along the edge of a tetrahedron. So what? There's nothing at the third and fourth vertices. And if you take the exact measurements, they're not even that close -- the data has been fudged to fit the conclusion. In any case, why a tetrahedron? The pyramids are square-based. It's just a bunch of New Age sewage.

It's like the old Lincoln/Kennedy hokum. Lincoln had a secretary named Kennedy, Kennedy rode in a Lincoln; stuff like that. Take any two things and if you pick your data points carefully, you can make all sorts of false conclusions, especially if you ignore the countless other data points that don't fit your preconceived notions.

A poster above alluded to "preciseness" when it comes to the pyramids. If you measure the base, you get 230.253 meters for the north side, 230.391 meters for the east, 230.454 meters for the south, and 230.357 for the west. Huh, they're all different. Not so precise. Close, and very neat; but not precise, and not beyond the talents of Egyptian surveyors.

Again, I'm not closed-minded, and I'm not resistant to the truth. But you gotta do a lot better than stuff like that. There are two mantras that you need to keep close. First is Occam's Razor: given two explanations, go with the simpler. And the second I like to call Sagan's Law, as he was found of invoking it: Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Saying that aliens/gods/whomever assisted in the construction is an extraordinary claim. I'm not saying it's false; I'm saying where's the extraordinary evidence to support this claim? Answer: there is none, and therefore until such evidence is revealed claims such as this must be dismissed.

I maintain my position that the ancient Egyptians were significantly more clever folk than you are prepared to admit, and that the construction of the pyramids was well within their technological know-how without the need of any external assistance.

Sir, watch your tongue. I am NOT glue.

Responses to these questions (bolded ) have already been posted. You haven't read them, won't comprehend them, or both.

Can somebody please post evidence of neural capacity in Flaminio? All I see is 80-286 processing, a buggy DOS OS, and an angry Twinkie inhaling subhuman on the keyboard.

 

[enkrypt3d]

Sir, watch your tongue. I am NOT glue.

Responses to these questions (bolded ) have already been posted. You haven't read them, won't comprehend them, or both.

Can somebody please post evidence of neural capacity in Flaminio? All I see is 80-286 processing, a buggy DOS OS, and an angry Twinkie inhaling subhuman on the keyboard.

HAHAHA dude you are the man... that last line kills me (im a geek too )

 

[Ski_Banker]

Thanks, I guess. I'm not trying to be. You can only bang your head against the wall so many times...

I'd be most happy if neither I nor Flaminio posted in this thread any more, since it hasn't gone anywhere after page 2. I'll sign off and Bobby can have his final e-dribble.

Sorry if I polluted an otherwise interesting thread.

 

[enkrypt3d]

thanks for sharing that video...... i still have to process it! haha

 

[Vega$ NSX]

I don't know. I've been following this thread silently, but at this point, all I see now is three people ganging up on a guy who happens to not share your same views. In a case where there is no definitive or absolute answer, everything is and should be open to interpretation. Where one person sees a the face of god another person sees some burnt marks on a piece of toast. Given the same data, information, and postulates, two people can derive two different interpretations. It doesn't make one of them myopic, narrow minded, or ignorant. Especially in a scenario where we really don't know the true answer.

I can understand if Bob was trying to argue that 2+2 did not equal 4. For the most part, there is a correct answer, and most of us can all agree on that. However, I think this argument is more attuned to if there is such things as spirits or ghosts. There really isn't a universal answer and people are all going to have their own interpretations. You are defending unexplained events, phenomenon or mysteries that cannot be explained by science as evidence of something supernatural or beyond our cognitive reasoning; proof of spirits or ghosts. Conversely, Bob is reasoning that you can't see, touch or hear a ghost and that scientifically there is no way to prove ghosts exist. Both of you are entitled to your own interpretation without being relegated being as myopic; as they both have legitimate merit. A lot of your verbiage towards Bob has been derisive simply for the fact that he does not believe that the evidence presented in front of him is sufficient enough to agree with your postulates. You can't say that your theory on aliens and the pyramids is the absolute 100% truth and can be universally proven to everyone, so no amount of data, theories, ideals, reasoning is going to prove that. Because we don't know the absolute truth, your theories and ideas are as good as the next person. Your deep set convictions don't give you any more truth on your side. That's how religious wars start; people so deeply rooted in their faiths and beliefs that they can't fathom a culture who doesn't agree with them. Look at the war in the Middle East. You passionately believe in a god, and so do the people in the Middle East. Yet their concept of god is vastly different than your concept of god. So who is correct? Who is right? For every reason, rationale, data, proof, or theory you can give that your god and religion is the correct one that you can feel down to the very fiber of your body, there is a person on the other side of the world who feels the exact same reasons, rationale, data, proof and theories that their god and religion is the correct one, down the very fiber of their body. An objective observer like Bob is simply taking another perspective that he simply does not believe in a god at all. So who is right and who is wrong? Does conviction make someone right? Does majority make someone right? If you've ever served jury duty, you'll see that given the exact same evidence and testimony, a jury of 12 will often have completely conflicting concepts of the sequence of events to the point where some will find the defendant guilty and some will find them not guilty. The truth is there, but in many cases, with limited evidence, the truth will never be known. Maybe one of the jurors is spot on with the exact sequence of events, or maybe none of them have it right at all. At that point, the only truth that remains is in the minds of the jurors. And that's discussing a case with events that could have taken place in the last year. Now you guys are talking about events that happen over the course of thousands (maybe million) years. Events that happened before any of us were born. Events, ideas, concepts, evidence, that transcend many levels and even possibly senses. If a court case and a jury of 12 can have diametrically opposed conclusions with relatively fresh evidence and timeline, then one would expect the spectrum of possible conclusions would be even more vast and broad in discussion something as expansive as this topic.

The point I guess I'm ultimately saying is that I don't feel it is unreasonable at all for Bob to feel the way he does about his beliefs. Where you may see something as divine intervention, Bob sees as coincidence. What you may feel is supernatural or extraordinary, Bob sees it as well within the realm of possibility. Are their peculiarities regarding the pyramids that can't be completely understood or explained? Sure. Is that definitive proof that aliens/god/insert concept here exist? Well if does for you, then that's your viewpoint. For others, including myself, it isn't and I don't think our viewpoint is any less valid, myopic, or ignorant than anyone else's.

 

[enkrypt3d]

just because you can't see, touch, feel, smell or taste does not mean it doesn't exist...our senses are very limited. One could say radio waves don't exist because they cant see it..... but just turn on a radio and there you go! Saying that something doesn't exist (God, Aliens whatever) just because you have not seen any evidence, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Period... and dismissing anyone experiences or research just because they don't agree with it is short sighted and close minded. period... you can't argue this point.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbgHyrmgRZM&NR=1

This video is pretty interesting... i make no claims that he's actually speaking fact...

 

[Vega$ NSX]

just because you can't see, touch, feel, smell or taste does not mean it doesn't exist...our senses are very limited. One could say radio waves don't exist because they cant see it..... but just turn on a radio and there you go! Saying that something doesn't exist (God, Aliens whatever) just because you have not seen any evidence, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Period... and dismissing anyone experiences or research just because they don't agree with it is short sighted and close minded. period... you can't argue this point.

I'm not. I'm saying the same thing, only the other way. I'm saying just because someone looks at the same experience, evidence and/or research, and concludes from their own interpretation that god/aliens/whatever don't exist, doesn't mean they should be dismissed either. If anyone is doing the dismissing it is everyone else dismissing Bob's opinion and interpretation. Just because he doesn't agree with your interpretations, why is he being accused of "having his eyes closed." To me the true people with their "eyes closed" are the ones not willing to at least accept that could be other viewpoints out there and that there is a possibility that one of them (not your own) could actually be correct. Even though I don't agree that aliens visited earth, I'm not going to say you are 100% wrong because I don't know that for sure. And I'd be even more sure not to call you "close minded" just because you didn't agree with me.

Bob, only stated that he doesn't think the evidence/experience/research you presented to him was enough to conclude that god/aliens/whatever existed, just as you feel that it WAS enough to conclude that they DO exist. He never said you were narrow minded, myopic or ignorant that you felt that way, just that he didn't agree. However, Bob has been accused of being myopic, narrow minded and ignorant because he didn't feel the same as accuser.

If you go back and re-read the thread, you'll see Bob essentially saying, I see your view point, but I don't agree. However, you'll see his accusers of saying, how can you possibly not agree with our position? You are so myopic and narrow minded because you don't see our side and agree with our position.

And yes, I agree, just because you don't have evidence doesn't mean something doesn't exist. But it doesn't mean it did exist either. I have no proof dragons or unicorns ever existed, so should I believe they existed? Could they have? Possibly. But do I feel that they have. No, I don't. You have to draw lines somewhere in your beliefs. Otherwise you'd have to leave the door open to things like, there's an even more powerful god who rules over your god. He's acts through your god, so everything you see is really this super god, but it appears as if it is your god. He's on a level so high, that you don't have the cognitive reasoning to even being to comprehend and the words I am trying to use to describe him doesn't even do it justice. Now just because I don't have any evidence of him existing doesn't mean he doesn't exist right? There is a possibility that this super-god, who rules over your god, exists right?

 

[C-speed]

Vega$ NSX: I don't believe we're all on the same page, although I do agree with what you're saying.

We're not saying that our points are absolute and everyone must agree - at least that's not what I'm saying.

We're saying that these anomalies and mysterious "findings" are far too compelling to simply chalk up as coincidence or happenstance, as you stated and what Bob has eluded to.

I feel that if Bob did more research on the topic, he will also find that these anomalies are far too compelling to ignore... although they may not prove one way or another beyond any reasonable doubt, but they would/should certainly raise an eyebrow.

 

[docjohn]

Well chaulk me up as a Flaminio supporter.Mankind has done what he has done with his own power and reason.The compelling arguments for alien help/Bermuda triangle/nasca lines have made some guys weathly in book and documentary/commentary rights,all intriguing stuff.And my eyes are wide open.

 

[Vega$ NSX]

Vega$ NSX: I don't believe we're all on the same page, although I do agree with what you're saying.

We're not saying that our points are absolute and everyone must agree - at least that's not what I'm saying.

We're saying that these anomalies and mysterious "findings" are far too compelling to simply chalk up as coincidence or happenstance, as you stated and what Bob has eluded to.

I feel that if Bob did more research on the topic, he will also find that these anomalies are far too compelling to ignore... although they may not prove one way or another beyond any reasonable doubt, but they would/should certainly raise an eyebrow.

But that's where we disagree and that is where you are being absolute. I (and I assume Bob as well) don't find these anomalies and mysteries compelling enough to suggest anything out of the ordinary. But that is where you are saying we "have" to find them compelling and we "have" to be intrigued by them. You said it yourself, "I feel that if Bob did more research on the topic, he will also find that these anomalies are far too compelling to ignore." But who are you to decide what Bob finds compelling? What if he did the research and he didn't find it compelling enough to ignore? Then what? He's simply blind? He's myopic? His eyes are closed? That means he has to find it compelling or he's outcasted. I'm sorry, but I'm not compelled either. Again, where you see the face of god/aliens/etc I see coincidence, burnt marks on toast, data presented in a way to support a position. So does that make me narrow minded and have my eyes closed that I look at the same data and research and don't share the same feelings and opinions as you? I know you will say you haven't done all the research, you haven't looked at all the data. We don't need to. The more research we do, the more reasons and rationales you present, the more galavanized we feel in our position. The more we learn about your theory, the more we feel the way we do.

Suppose I were to flip the table and reverse the position. Let's say despite overwhelming evidence or belief that the pyramids were built by aliens, I suggest a theory that the pyramids were actually built by by humans and humans only and all uniqueness was completely sheer coincidence. Based on the evidence, would it seem likely? Probably not, but could there be a possiblity of it? Could. But if you were to immediately dismiss it, would it be fair to call you closed minded and not thinking outside the box?

I can make claims like, we haven't landed on the moon, Kennedy was shot by multiple gunmen, and that Elvis (or Michael Jackson or Tupac) is still alive. I can give you very compelling facts, reasonings, or data to support my position, but I assume you have a pretty firm conviction on what you choose to believe and how you want to interpret the data. If you dismissed my theory, would it be fair to call you closed minded as well? I don't think so. You can acknowledge what I'm saying but you don't have to agree and it shouldn't make you close minded or ignorant.

 

[flaminio]

yes they did... they can not find the original footage of the mission...... (not saying that they faked the moon landing when I know they didn't)

Mea culpa. Yes, much of the original footage of the first moon landing was regrettably destroyed.

NASA says that the tapes were written over to record satellite data. This does not seem like an unreasonable possibility.

There does exist hours upon hours of quality footage from the later missions as well.