This is truly the most disturbing thing I have ever heard

[Accomplice]

It isn't the same, I don't think that is being argued. But, violence will cause more violence, and it will always escalate.

So, let me get this straight: You have some cowardly shitheads beheading an unarmed civilian, so, in your book, that means all Muslims are like that, and they should be subjected to more suppression? Nice logic.
So, I guess all Americans are torturing sadists, right? Same logic.

All Americans are torturing sadists? The question should be "So, I guess all Americans like to see people play naked Twister?" And the answer is 1. yes all Muslims are like that and 2. yes all Americans enjoy naked Twister as a spectator sport. Okay, perhaps not quite all Muslims are like that. Only a small percentage but then there is the other 50-90% who're content to support the nuts. Civilized humans on Earth are currently under a massive threat (read that as 'these nuts intend to kill off everybody else as soon as resources allow') coming from one body of its populace, Muslims. Despite any pretences otherwise, this 'religion of peace' is falling well short of its billing. If all of the decent Muslims refuse to contain and reprogram the 10% (25%? 50%?) that are completely and utterly insane and murderous we will be forced to bring consequences upon the faithfull as a whole.

 

[steveny]

All Americans are torturing sadists? The question should be "So, I guess all Americans like to see people play naked Twister?" And the answer is 1. yes all Muslims are like that and 2. yes all Americans enjoy naked Twister as a spectator sport. Okay, perhaps not quite all Muslims are like that. Only a small percentage but then there is the other 50-90% who're content to support the nuts. Civilized humans on Earth are currently under a massive threat (read that as 'these nuts intend to kill off everybody else as soon as resources allow') coming from one body of its populace, Muslims. Despite any pretences otherwise, this 'religion of peace' is falling well short of its billing. If all of the decent Muslims refuse to contain and reprogram the 10% (25%? 50%?) that are completely and utterly insane and murderous we will be forced to bring consequences upon the faithfull as a whole.

Beautifully written Accomplice.

People in this country are not allowed to get that far out of whack without being contained by the masses. Lawlessness runs rampant in the middle east. The fault of allowing people to progress to the level of terrorist lays on the shoulders of the entire country where he/she progressed to that level. Didn't Bush say something to that effect? Now he is handing out Billions to people who cut the heads off of our citizens. I say to hell with all of them.

 

[NsSeX]

NUKEM is my answer to Irag/Iran/N. Korea

 

[kenjiMR]

I don't know the whole story, but it appears that he went to Iraq on his own free will. We know that there are people who hate Americans. It is sad that he had to lose his life this way, but he is also responsible for his own safety and well being. The Japanese aid workers could have been killed in the same fashion as well. They are thugs, but in their eyes the US is a thug as well. People will do extreme things when they start running out of hope. The US needs to stay on course to ensure that all Iraqis can get jobs, buy cars, and integrate into the rest of the world. With hope, the resistors will be forced to their terrorist cells and out of the lime-light.

You guys should read books by Robert Baer, ex-CIA regarding the situation of US and middle east. This Iraq situation is only a peice of the puzzle as we deal with the mid-east in the next decades.

edit - s/CGI/CIA/

 

[jlindy]

The US needs to stay on course to ensure that all Iraqis can get jobs, buy cars, and integrate into the rest of the world. With hope, the resistors will be forced to their terrorist cells and out of the lime-light.

While I agree that all these things need to happen in Iraq, if it is costing American lives to do this, then maybe it is time for them to fend for themselves. They have made it thousands of years without our help and just because their dictator is no longer, doesn't mean there isn't any intelligent leadership ready and able to step forward. I don't think that it is our job to support them if we keep getting killed doing so.

I don't know the whole story, but it appears that he went to Iraq on his own free will.

He did go on his own free will, but he was feeling unsafe and was trying to get back to the US. I hear that he actually missed his flight after being detained at a checkpoint by US soldiers trying to verify his story first. He missed his flight and they eventually let him go. If they would have only helped him get home instead of sending him out alone, this would have never happened. I don't blame our troops, but it will hopefully teach them a new way to handle these types of situations.

 

[Psycnosis]

Glass them, and build wal-marts

Sometimes things can get so bad that no matter what happens nothing good will ever come out of it. There may still be some good parts left but the sum of the parts makes the whole thing bad. Kind of like a car that no longer runs but still has some good parts. The hassle of pulling out the good parts, which are worn and aged, is just not worth the time. Crush the car and make a new one.

IMO it is time to pull out the troops and drop the big one, start over from scratch, any other country that has a problem with it will get the same treatment.

We need to stop pussy footing around and show we are done putting up with any Bull Shit.

 

[Spencer]

Please…no flames until you read everything…

From this article: http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4953015/ --"The FBI warned Berg shortly before he disappeared that Iraq was too volatile for unprotected U.S. civilians, but he turned down a State Department offer to fly him home, U.S. officials said Wednesday. "

And from this one: http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040512/D82H53R80.html --"Berg's father blamed the U.S. government for creating circumstances that led to his son's death, saying if his son had not been detained for so long, he might have been able to leave Iraq before the violence worsened. I think a lot of people are fed up with the lack of civil rights this thing has caused," Michael Berg said. "I don't think this administration is committed to democracy."

I realize that Berg's Father is hurting, and I realize it was a senseless, brutal and inexcusable killing. But once again, we're getting the classic "Bush-Is-An-Idiot-Why-Can't-I-Be-Protected-From-My-Own-Stupidity" spin. He is blaming the U.S. government! What about personal accountability? What about the fact his son was unarmed, in a war zone full of terrorists, and he refused to go home? And then he says, " I don't think this administration is committed to democracy." So…are we to assume that if we were 'really' committed to Democracy (and wouldn't have done the nude twister routine) the big bad terrorists would've had an epiphany, would've promised to play nice, and his son would still be alive!?! Where is he going with this? I find it bizarre that he would use his son's death to spew this apologist crap…it's tragic and nauseating that his son was murdered, but his son's actions in going to Iraq, unescorted, bordered on the insane, and to blame the administration is gratuitous.

 

[nkb]

While I agree that all these things need to happen in Iraq, if it is costing American lives to do this, then maybe it is time for them to fend for themselves. They have made it thousands of years without our help and just because their dictator is no longer, doesn't mean there isn't any intelligent leadership ready and able to step forward. I don't think that it is our job to support them if we keep getting killed doing so.

The problem with that approach is that we have created a vacuum at the top of the Iraqi nation. We can't just leave, because there are still too many Saddam loyalists around.
That is exactly what happened during Desert Storm. We encouraged Iraqis to rise up against Saddam, because there was a possibility of a revolution. That didn't work out, and we pulled our troops out after having accomplished the first objective (freeing Kuwait). Guess who got f&*ked? Is it any wonder that Iraqis are a little leery of openly supporting us?

The fact that there are still this many bombings and uprisings, and we are having trouble getting them under control, shows that the bad guys are still around, and they wield a lot of power. If our troops are recalled, there are going to be some serious reprisals once again. Who knows, the next one to come to power might be worse than Hussein.

It all kind of makes you wonder if Bush and his crew really understood the implications of going to war in Iraq.

 

[Psycnosis]

Perfect post, He was a dumbshit for going. Should he of been killed no but he should think. "What the hell am I doing here?" Not smart on his part.

Please…no flames until you read everything…

From this article: http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4953015/ --"The FBI warned Berg shortly before he disappeared that Iraq was too volatile for unprotected U.S. civilians, but he turned down a State Department offer to fly him home, U.S. officials said Wednesday. "

And from this one: http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040512/D82H53R80.html --"Berg's father blamed the U.S. government for creating circumstances that led to his son's death, saying if his son had not been detained for so long, he might have been able to leave Iraq before the violence worsened. I think a lot of people are fed up with the lack of civil rights this thing has caused," Michael Berg said. "I don't think this administration is committed to democracy."

I realize that Berg's Father is hurting, and I realize it was a senseless, brutal and inexcusable killing. But once again, we're getting the classic "Bush-Is-An-Idiot-Why-Can't-I-Be-Protected-From-My-Own-Stupidity" spin. He is blaming the U.S. government! What about personal accountability? What about the fact his son was unarmed, in a war zone full of terrorists, and he refused to go home? And then he says, " I don't think this administration is committed to democracy." So…are we to assume that if we were 'really' committed to Democracy (and wouldn't have done the nude twister routine) the big bad terrorists would've had an epiphany, would've promised to play nice, and his son would still be alive!?! Where is he going with this? I find it bizarre that he would use his son's death to spew this apologist crap…it's tragic and nauseating that his son was murdered, but his son's actions in going to Iraq, unescorted, bordered on the insane, and to blame the administration is gratuitous.

 

[nkb]

All Americans are torturing sadists? The question should be "So, I guess all Americans like to see people play naked Twister?" And the answer is 1. yes all Muslims are like that and 2. yes all Americans enjoy naked Twister as a spectator sport. Okay, perhaps not quite all Muslims are like that. Only a small percentage but then there is the other 50-90% who're content to support the nuts. Civilized humans on Earth are currently under a massive threat (read that as 'these nuts intend to kill off everybody else as soon as resources allow') coming from one body of its populace, Muslims. Despite any pretences otherwise, this 'religion of peace' is falling well short of its billing. If all of the decent Muslims refuse to contain and reprogram the 10% (25%? 50%?) that are completely and utterly insane and murderous we will be forced to bring consequences upon the faithfull as a whole.

It's awfully easy for you to sit in the cozy safety of Florida, and make sweeping generalizations about what 50% to 90% of an entire religion is thinking. Is it possible that these decent Muslims are scared shitless of these certifiable nuts? They don't live in the USA, where you can report someone to the cops if they threaten you, and you can get a restraining order on them, and get them put in jail.

Now put yourself in Baghdad. You're Joe Schmoe who has never harmed anyone, and you just want to have some freedom, and a good life for your family. You are putting yourself and your family at risk if you speak out against guys who obviously have no qualms about murdering people. Are you going to go to the cops? Hell, no, they're as helpless as you. Their police stations are getting blown up every day, they're getting picked off in ambushes.
Go to the Americans? Sure, they might even nail a few of the terrorists based on what you tell them. But, then what happens? They aren't putting you in a witness protection program, so back you go to your neighborhood. All it takes is one other nut to find out that you helped the "occupational army", and your son is brutally murdered, your daughter and wife are raped, and you get a bomb stuck up your ass. Gee, I wonder why more decent Muslims don't stand up to these nuts.

Just because these terrorists exist, and there are people who support them, how can you make a generalization about everyone?

By your logic, is the USA a country of people who are content to support the nuts that drag black people behind pickup trucks?

 

[Accomplice]

If I was one of the non-nutty Muslims I'd realize that the nuts were going to get us ALL killed and form some sort of alliance with like-minded (non-nutty) people to squash the freaks before they make all non-Muslims want to kill every last Muslim on the planet. There are way more wack jobs in these Islamic countries than our media lets on. A post 9/11 poll of Saudis showed that 80% supported UBL. Lots of Saudis were slaughtering animals in celebration and throwing parties when it happened. The threat is so real and so huge that I can't imagine how little you grasp about what we, our country and our kids will be facing in coming decades. These sporadic horrors provided by un-managed Muslim fanatics will mount and we'll sit on our hands offering pinprick responses for years to come. One day they'll manage to inflict some level of tragedy that will be so massive and so destructive that we will have no choice but to adopt a policy for the destruction of Islamic population centers. That certainty can only be averted from within the world of Islam. As long as they continue to carry the belief that they can win we'll face this nightmare. We need to undermine their entire mythology. Look at any universally held prophecy about the future of Islam as to how a religious center like Mecca is supposed to endure and / or prosper. Then destroy it in a massive thermonuclear display so that they can understand that everything they were forced to study growing up (you know those years when they really should have been taught math and language skills) is a complete farce. That should take the wind out of their sails. It sounds extreme now but the future alternatives will be far direr.

 

[jagtiger]

I have read most of the comments here and I'm totally shocked.
Wow!

 

[ajnsx]

NUKEM is my answer to Irag/Iran/N. Korea

That'll make everyone feel better, everyone will love America and stop planning to take the big one down If we survive the radioactive fallout that is! It'll kill all the innocents too but no matter. Lets kill all those evil Americans sent to torture and steal while were at it:rollseyes:

I have read most of the comments here and I'm totally shocked.

Have to agree with you there!. Very one sided.

If my family members were tortured, humilited, raped and then the pics posted on the net, i think i would start to feel some murderous intent too. It may have been an excuse to kill him anyway who knows.

Not saying its right but i understand the emotions behind it, no matter how morally reprehensible.

Wasn't the America government actually financing Bin Ladin at one stage?

P.s I play video games where all sorts of violence occur, but that video was one of the most disturbing things i have seen. That a human being (any nationality) is capability of taking a life in this manner is sickening.

 

[NemesisX]

I only have one thing to say,


Revenge is a HUMAN trait.

 

[Ko-nsx]

The real truth

We shouldn't have been there in the first place. WOMD? My heart goes out the all the unfortunate people involved in the big boys pissing contest. Greed is the real problem, all the other stuff that has and will happen are just fumes from the fire. How would you feel if you knew the whole truth about this whole bush thing? Yep, its a bush thing.

 

[huckster]

I dont know how you guys can transfer the acts of some Iraquis to the whole population. The nation is in complete chaos, lacks any sort of organized government, and has been used to brutal sadistic governments when theyve had one. And you expect the reasonable Iraquis to rise up and weed out their own rabid fundamentalist sickos?? When was the last time YOU stood up under similar circumstances?

Every society has murderers, rapists, and bigots calling for the eradication of other races/religions. Check our own headlines sometime. Alqueda, Nazism, and every other genocide started the same way. A bunch of pissed off people who felt they or their culture had been wronged sat around and said, "lets just kill em all".

All it takes for evil to triumph is for good people to stand by and say/do nothing.

 

[nkb]

Look at any universally held prophecy about the future of Islam as to how a religious center like Mecca is supposed to endure and / or prosper. Then destroy it in a massive thermonuclear display so that they can understand that everything they were forced to study growing up (you know those years when they really should have been taught math and language skills) is a complete farce. That should take the wind out of their sails. It sounds extreme now but the future alternatives will be far direr.

That is one of the most asinine statements I have heard in a long time. You have some serious pent up anger, my friend.

So, what do you think would happen if we nuked Mecca (for best effect, let's do it during a pilgrimage, so we can take out as many of them as possible)? Muslims will realize they can't mess with the good ol' US of A, and will go back to their daily lives. Thank Allah for the USA to make us see the light.

Or, would it possibly turn every living Muslim into a suicide bomber (every man, woman and child)? What we're seeing now in terms of hate would look like a little spat between friends, and now it's more than thousands, now we have millions of people who are willing to do what it takes to take down the evil giant.

So, I guess the next step after nuking the most cherished religious site in the Muslim religion would have to be to start taking out every Muslim. The only way to be sure we don't get attacked is to kill every one of them. Yep, if you want to be sure, genocide is the only answer. But not just the ones in the Middle East, how can we be sure that Muslims in this country don't start causing trouble?
Hmmm, this is starting to sound very familiar, where have I heard something like this before? Germans didn't like the Jews, Serbians had an issue with the Bosnians. Nahhhh, that was different.

 

[NsSeX]

That'll make everyone feel better, everyone will love America and stop planning to take the big one down If we survive the radioactive fallout that is! It'll kill all the innocents too but no matter. Lets kill all those evil Americans sent to torture and steal while were at it:rollseyes:

Dude ligthen up I didn't mean for it to be serious..... some of you guys just need to step back and take a breath.

 

[nkb]

Dude ligthen up I didn't mean for it to be serious..... some of you guys just need to step back and take a breath.

You may not have been serious about this, but, unfortunately, some people are (at least that is my impression).

 

[Accomplice]

That is one of the most asinine statements I have heard in a long time. You have some serious pent up anger, my friend.

So, what do you think would happen if we nuked Mecca (for best effect, let's do it during a pilgrimage, so we can take out as many of them as possible)? Muslims will realize they can't mess with the good ol' US of A, and will go back to their daily lives. Thank Allah for the USA to make us see the light.

Or, would it possibly turn every living Muslim into a suicide bomber (every man, woman and child)? What we're seeing now in terms of hate would look like a little spat between friends, and now it's more than thousands, now we have millions of people who are willing to do what it takes to take down the evil giant.

So, I guess the next step after nuking the most cherished religious site in the Muslim religion would have to be to start taking out every Muslim. The only way to be sure we don't get attacked is to kill every one of them. Yep, if you want to be sure, genocide is the only answer. But not just the ones in the Middle East, how can we be sure that Muslims in this country don't start causing trouble?
Hmmm, this is starting to sound very familiar, where have I heard something like this before? Germans didn't like the Jews, Serbians had an issue with the Bosnians. Nahhhh, that was different.

I think I said fairly clearly that undermining the 'religion of peace' (by making Mecca go away for example) that all of these nuts are so into, might just AVERT genocide. If and when the bad guys succeed on the massive scale they aspire to, our govt. may swing to a much more radical position putting all Islamic population centers at risk. If we can avoid this by kicking a wheel or two off of the mule cart that is radical Islam, perhaps greater tradegies can be avoided. The preferred route is of course Muslims waking up and deciding to not only stop supporting these nuts but actually do something unheard of like arrest/ reprogram them.

 

[Accomplice]

...By your logic, is the USA a country of people who are content to support the nuts that drag black people behind pickup trucks?

Are you saying that you wouldn't stop, by force if required, a group of nutty rednecks who you noticed killing a person? I know we have a (much smaller) percentage of nuts in our society. The difference is that there is a huge number of decent humans who would stop this kind of madness if they witnessed it. If I saw a pile of rednecks bringing bodily harm to any person (Muslims included) I would stop it right then and there.

 

[nkb]

Are you saying that you wouldn't stop, by force if required, a group of nutty rednecks who you noticed killing a person? I know we have a (much smaller) percentage of nuts in our society. The difference is that there is a huge number of decent humans who would stop this kind of madness if they witnessed it. If I saw a pile of rednecks bringing bodily harm to any person (Muslims included) I would stop it right then and there.

My point was that despicable things happen in this country also. Can we infer that because they continue to happen that the majority of the population supports the few deranged a-holes?

Yes, I would do everything in my power to stop something like this, but we live in a very different environment here. I can call the cops. Or I can try to stop them myself, knowing that it is unlikely that they will come after me and my family later.

Completely different set of circumstances in a place like Iraq. They don't have the same level of security that we do. Their cops are running scared, because they don't have control of the country. We're talking about a country that is in a state of chaos, after having been ruled with an iron fist for 20 some years.

You talk real tough while living in an environment that allows you to run your mouth without fear of reprisal. I'd love to see how tough you would be when thrown into Iraq.

 

[nkb]

I think I said fairly clearly that undermining the 'religion of peace' (by making Mecca go away for example) that all of these nuts are so into, might just AVERT genocide.

Killing millions of innocent people based on their religion/ethnic background is a way to AVERT genocide? So, what is your definition of genocide? I love the way your mind works.

If and when the bad guys succeed on the massive scale they aspire to, our govt. may swing to a much more radical position putting all Islamic population centers at risk. If we can avoid this by kicking a wheel or two off of the mule cart that is radical Islam, perhaps greater tradegies can be avoided. The preferred route is of course Muslims waking up and deciding to not only stop supporting these nuts but actually do something unheard of like arrest/ reprogram them.

You really need to make up your mind: Are we dealing with nuts or not? If they are nuts (which I think they are), then there is no rational thought. A nuclear bomb on Mecca would only justify their existence and their ideas.

Radical Muslims don't give a rat's ass about their average fellow Muslim. They don't care about anyone but themselves and their cause. If millions of people (even their own) have to die to further their plans, they will gladly take that tradeoff. Because the outrage would bring them so many volunteers they couldn't pick suicide bombing targets fast enough.

 

[huckster]

im not intending to sound 'holier than thou', but even if some of us arent serious about 'kill em all', the voicing of that attitude encourages others who may be or become very serious. The background of all racism is the voicing of intolerant opinions, leading to intolerant/abusive actions, which throughout history has led to violence and in extreme circumstances genocide.

There is no evidence that Hitler killed anyone himself, but he came to power using words that were bigoted, hateful, and incited a nation to violence and genocide.

 

[steveny]

im not intending to sound 'holier than thou', but even if some of us arent serious about 'kill em all', the voicing of that attitude encourages others who may be or become very serious.

We don't need to kill them all, just as many as it takes to gain compliance. My definition of war is to do what ever it takes to make the opponent comply in the shortest period of time.