Thinking about buying a couple of firearms (need suggestions)

[naaman]

Hey all,

I'm coming along in my pursuit of a career in law enforcement and I want to buy a handgun and a shotgun sometime in the near future to start doing some independant practicing before I start academy training.

My plan is to keep the weapons in the house and for personal use (shooting range etc).

I'm not all that worried about needing to protect my home (I live in a decent neighborhood), but in the event that the weapons are used for that purpose, I hear that shotguns (loaded with the "scatter" rounds) are the best choice.

Anyway, I want to get something with a bit of kick. The sheriff's department uses 9mm and .45 rounds (I'm not sure exactly how they switch between them... the deputy with whom I rode one night told me they used 9mm, but then I asked about stopping power, and he pulled a clip out and said "these are .45 calibur," so presumably, he had both).

I've fired one weapon before. It was a Gloc (.45 calibur). It had a good recoil, and it was accurate, too. Being my first time, I didn't have enough control to keep the weapon trained on the target between shots. I had to re-aim for each new shot.

Anyway, I want to start working on my proficiency soon, and I want to buy weapons that will be good in the long term, as I intend to keep them and train with them in my free time.

Any suggestions from anyone who knows something about guns would be helpful.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Blackend]

Can't go wrong with a Glock. I have a model 33 which is the sub compact .357 sig model and I love it. The round moves too fast for law enforcement liability issues, but the model 36 is the slim-line .45 and it's very nice to shoot with. I also love shooting the Beretta 92FS because of it's balanced feel and ease of use. They sell Glazer (sp?) rounds for home defense that work pretty well and shatter upon impact/penetration. You can recognize them by the blue tips. I tested several home safety rounds with some friends and these did some pretty substantial damage, with not a lot of deep penetration (read: messed up the bad guy and didn't go through the wall behind him.) If you really want to get nasty with home defense rounds, look for Federal Hydra Shocks - one round out of a .45 lifted a wet sand filled Sparklets bottle about 3 feet off the ground...VERY NASTY!

 

[TyraNSX]

Glock & roll, baby! .357, .40, or 10mm if you want a cannon. And it's "caliber". I have the Glock 17 9mm & don't shoot it much, but it is nice & reliable. If you want to play Dirty Harry, Desert Eagle .44 mag or .50, but no way is that a duty piece.

 

[eNeSeX 95T]

Id go with a colt govt. I Have one, GREAT GUNS. I recomend buying From american companies. They make the best guns and have been around long time. S&W, Remmington, Winchester, Colt, Browning ETC

 

[deedubb]

My 2 favorites are:
-.45 1911 pistol. Its easy to carry, slim profile but has fewer rounds
-.45 HK USP. Bulkier, more rounds can be carried, outstanding quality.

The best advice would be for you to go and shoot some/hold some. See what feels better to you.

 

[Blackend]

The best advice would be for you to go and shoot some/hold some. See what feels better to you.

+1

I don't know about SoCal, but around here there are several shooting ranges that will let you rent a pistol and they usually have quite a few to choose from.

 

[blknsxnoc]

Hello Naaman,

Like you, I am also very close in starting a career in law enforcement.

Based on what I've been told from Tactical (TAC) Officers and current recruits on a few different departments, it is not advisable that you purchase any firearm now and definitely not to get in any "practice" time. LAPD is a great example of a department that shuns personal shooting practice because it is their belief that you will develop bad habits and will hinder you in learning it their way. I was thinking along the lines that you are before getting this information myself so I know how you feel.

Without knowing what department you are entering, its hard to be specific however, here is another good reason to wait on buying your firearms. LAPD just switched within the last 6 months from issuing 9mm Beretta 92FS' to 40 cal Glock 22s. There was also a time back in the day when they trained with 45 cals and those are the veterans that you may see with S&W 4506s a la Vic Mackey on The Sheild. LASD still issues 92FS' but they may follow suit with a change soon as well. The bottom line is that you have plenty of time to check out different firearms later and who knows, the training may change your mind on what you want. I for one am thinking that I will probably have a weapon of the same maker as my assigned duty weapon for simplicities sake.

Good luck in your process and maybe we'll see each other on the streets one day.

Jeff

 

[KGP]

Shotguns: Personally, I can't see myself protecting my home by way of a shotgun. Don't get me wrong though. Yes, a shotgun would be an great choice - provided you have it within easy reach, and somehow secure, yet quickly accessable. Tougher to accomplish those things with a shotgun than a handgun. Personally, I keep a handgun in a handgun safe that fits in a night stand, which is opened by way of electronic touch pad.

Handguns: I think I have got close to every caliber there is, and many different makes and actions. Glocks are simple, effective and reliable. I have a model 23, and it's never caused a problem. As to knock-down power; most CCW instructors would tell you that nothing short of 9mm should really be considered (as a primary), and .40 s&w and up would be a better choice. All that said, my favorites are my two custom .45 1911's. Here's the most recent of the two...:smile:

 

[lrsudog]

I am a fan of the Benelli SC90 12 gauge. Very light, very tough.

For a large caliber auto, some people love Glocks, some people do not. I prefer the 1911 model Colt & clones. My most recent is a Kimber 1911 with a drop in .460 Rowland rebarrel, not so much for people, but to replace the S&W 629 .44 I carry in the back country.

 

[arnach]

I recommend the H&K USP/USP Compact in .40SW. Excellent gun.

For home defense, a Mossberg 500 (cheap) with bird shot for the first two rounds and then buck shot for the latter. I figure if the bird shot dosen't scare them away, then I'll need something bigger.

 

[johnny010]

Been a shooter for years....my personal favorite is the GLOCK 20.

In my opinion, I like a pistol in the same league as the NSX...rare, charming, and admired. Read from a website on the net...

"The 10mm auto cartridge is a great idea that just never really caught on like it should have with American shooters...One 10mm handgun that has achieved somewhat of a cult following is the Glock Model 20, which is the subject of this review. The Glock 20 is perhaps the most controllable 10mm pistol yet developed, if the gun fit’s the shooter’s hand. The exterior dimensions of the 20 are the same as the .45 ACP chambered Glock 21. It works very well for a shooter with medium to large hands. Small-handed shooters need not apply...The Glock Model 20 is not for everyone, it is indeed a fine pistol for experienced shooters who want more power than is commonly available from the usual choice of auto pistol cartridges. It is relatively light at just 30.9 ounces, unloaded."
Source: http://www.gunblast.com/Glock20.htm

My brother is a police officer, and he agrees.

Good luck.

JM

 

[johnny010]

pic

 

[nchopp]

I'm starting with the Department in in several weeks. Our uniform allowance also covers our handgun, and we're allowed any model in .40 S&W from Glock, Sig, Beretta, or Smith and Wesson. I'm pretty much decided on the Sig P226, and perhaps a smaller Glock as my backup.

Like blknsxnoc said, it's probably a better idea to wait and see what your department requires.

 

[TyraNSX]

You would be wise to spend some $ here first

 

[SFMarine0311]

Hmm i'd personally pick up an m-4 assault rifle...always a nice rifle to have on the wall incase of a break in. Shotgun wise.. mossberg makes a riot issue persuader model it holds 9 shots has no choke so it just spreads baby. Thats what i'd recomment....sidearm wise...go with a 9 mm. If you want more take down power get hollow point 45's glock is made in austria and only the best! Ruger P-95 is also a great model.

 

[naaman]

Hello Naaman,

Like you, I am also very close in starting a career in law enforcement.

Based on what I've been told from Tactical (TAC) Officers and current recruits on a few different departments, it is not advisable that you purchase any firearm now and definitely not to get in any "practice" time. LAPD is a great example of a department that shuns personal shooting practice because it is their belief that you will develop bad habits and will hinder you in learning it their way. I was thinking along the lines that you are before getting this information myself so I know how you feel.

Without knowing what department you are entering, its hard to be specific however, here is another good reason to wait on buying your firearms. LAPD just switched within the last 6 months from issuing 9mm Beretta 92FS' to 40 cal Glock 22s. There was also a time back in the day when they trained with 45 cals and those are the veterans that you may see with S&W 4506s a la Vic Mackey on The Sheild. LASD still issues 92FS' but they may follow suit with a change soon as well. The bottom line is that you have plenty of time to check out different firearms later and who knows, the training may change your mind on what you want. I for one am thinking that I will probably have a weapon of the same maker as my assigned duty weapon for simplicities sake.

Good luck in your process and maybe we'll see each other on the streets one day.

Jeff

That's a very good point. I hadn't thought of that.

Anyway, I've applied to the LA County Sheriff's Department. I'll be starting out working in custody, so I probably won't be on patrol for a few years, though I've heard of deputies serving as little as 4 months in custody before getting out on patrol.

So I'll probably hold off on actually "practicing" with a weapon, but based upon feedback, I may be able to select one for personal use...

My girlfriend talks about learning how to shoot once we're married, which I have no problem with (I'd rather her know how to handle a gun if there's going to be one in the house... I'll just have to be careful not to piss her off too much!).

The one time I did go shooting, I was consistantly hitting the target dead in the heart... untill I started playing around, trying to hit the eyes and medula oblongata etc (at which point, I was starting to "forget" the advice my friend gave me about aiming and squeezing the trigger etc).

Anyway... I'm going to continue to do some research.

Thanks for all the feedback. I love the enthusiasm that exists on these boards!

 

[MvM]

Hi there,

Let me chime in on this a bit, even though it's from across the Atlantic.

From your post, I understand you have little experience with firearms in general. Where I live, firearms posession is very strictly limited which means people who do start shooting usually only know what they have read or seen in the movies (which means that what they do know is practically always wrong).
Best thing for you would be first to gain some experience with firearms in general. Wait a bit until you have mastered the basics of using firearms. This is very important. The point made about waiting until you have had good instructions by your PD is a very valid point. Only after you have covered the basics and have developed a 'feeling' for what you can and like should you choose to buy a firearm.

As for choices in handguns, the Glock in either 9mm or .40S&W is a very good choice. It is easy to use, extremely reliable and lasts very long. The SIG P226 and SIGPro are more expensive and have a bit more recoil but they are more accurate. The P226 however probably will not last as long as the Glock (I have broken two) although they have strengthened the frame since.
The Walther P99 or H&K USP and its variants are excellent guns although I personally find them a bit bulky. The replacable rear grips might be usufull though if the standard grip doesn't fit you right.
As for ammo, as an officer you could be limited in your choices. I have studied wound ballistics, done ammo-testing, written articles for more than ten years and exchanged opinions and results with many experts in this field and if there is one thing this all has thought me it is that bullet-placement is far more important than anything else.

 

[NSXrebel]

Benelli M4 would be my choice for shotgun, thats what I used in the Marine Corps.
I have a couple M4 assault rifles as well. looking for a Glock pistol now.

 

[orbusrex]

That's a very good point. I hadn't thought of that.

Anyway, I've applied to the LA County Sheriff's Department. I'll be starting out working in custody, so I probably won't be on patrol for a few years, though I've heard of deputies serving as little as 4 months in custody before getting out on patrol.

So I'll probably hold off on actually "practicing" with a weapon, but based upon feedback, I may be able to select one for personal use...

My girlfriend talks about learning how to shoot once we're married, which I have no problem with (I'd rather her know how to handle a gun if there's going to be one in the house... I'll just have to be careful not to piss her off too much!).

The one time I did go shooting, I was consistantly hitting the target dead in the heart... untill I started playing around, trying to hit the eyes and medula oblongata etc (at which point, I was starting to "forget" the advice my friend gave me about aiming and squeezing the trigger etc).

Anyway... I'm going to continue to do some research.

Thanks for all the feedback. I love the enthusiasm that exists on these boards!

Hi there. I'm in law enforcement myself and have to agree that going into an academy with no experience often leads to better shooting than the weekend plinker... It's hard enough to teach someone how to shoot, but to break them of bad habits and teach anew is even worse. Some of the best shooters we have came in woth no experience at all. I'd hold off on making a handgun purchase until after you land the job... another reason is you might not be sure what you are going to fire. Before I got my job I had a Glock 9mm. I got my job and we shoot .40. I got rid of the Glock pretty quick, because the .40 was free!

If you want something for home defense, get a Remington 870 HD. It is the most common law enforcement shotgun and real easy to use... and you probably won't develop any bad habits!!

Good luck to you...

Rob

 

[Vega$ NSX]

I'll have to also put in a vote for a Glock. To me the Glock is the NSX of the gun world. You get great performance with very little maintenance or hassle. Most of them have about 4 break down parts max and you can dry fire it to your hearts content without any worry of damage. On top of all of that you can really put it to use and treat it like crap and it holds up just fine. Yet it is one of the more accurate handguns and reliable handguns I’ve shot. Some love and some hate the looks, but I believe when it comes to self defense, function should be tenfold over form any day of the week.

 

[Ski_Banker]

Glock Schmock. Colt .45 1911 Combat Elite (if ya can find it...oh so sexy). If you can't do it in 8 shots, well...

and for your long gun - M1A :biggrin: AR15 if you're new school and .308 hurts your tender shoulder. :biggrin:

 

[naaman]

Alright, well...

I have considerably more experience with firearms now, but I still consider myself somewhat of a "beginner" when it comes to shooting. With a pistol, at the typical range for a pistol, I can always hit a man-sized target (even when shooting hastily), but my shot groups are not as tight as I'd like them to be unless I really take my time.

Anyway, I've promised my wife that I would teach her how to shoot, and I may spend some trigger time with her when I come home on leave in the spring. I've fired hundreds and hundreds of rounds out of my GI Beretta 9mm. I've fired a few other pistols, including a custom 1911 9mm (which was fitted with a .22 barrel fitted for the weapon).

I liked the 1911. I see a lot of recommendations for a Glock here. While I have fired one before, I didn't know enough about shooting at the time to really guage the weapon. Perhaps I will go shooting with my friend and test his out one more time.

Anyway, I'm most concerned with accuracy and effectiveness. I want a weapon that can do the job in two shots (or less) center of mass, end of story (mostly for my wife's sake).

I've been doing some research and I've run into a problem: many, many different manufacturers make the same model of weapon. So, how can I guage which ones are the best (I have this "thing" about quality, you see?)? Is there any way to gague accuracy without actually firing the weapon (is there somewhere I can get objective data on a weapon's accuracy/consistancy, for example, tests where the weapon is clamped down and grouped at a fixed distance)?

For now, I'm still "shopping" (on the internet) trying to narrow down my choices, and I still feel like there are too many unknowns without being able to physically handle the weapon.

Any objective data would be appreciated, as well as any first hand subjective experience. Any military/law enforcement that can comment on specific makes and their reliability/accuracy and differences in stopping power (i.e. threat elimination). It's looking like the range I'm considering is between 9mm and .45 caliber.

 

[Big_D]

I like the simplicity of a revolver. I have a Ruger .357 SS 4" barrel and it shoots pretty accurate...no jamming. I have speed loaders that help with reloading speed.

For home protection a Shotgun with a short barrel is best. Mossburg sells a Combo-pack with an 18" barrel and a pistol grip.

 

[SWIFTVISION]

If you want a weapon to go "bang" everytime you pull the trigger (which means you will loose some accuracy), and to hold enough rounds to stop more then 1 bad guy....go with a Glock 9mm, comes in 4 sizes too!

 

[steveny]

I have a small collection of handguns. I LOVE my sig. It is only a 380 so the stopping power is not that of a 45, but hey you don't need the stopping power with a gun as accurate as a sig.