The "soul" of the NSX as compared to others

Tim, the following is the text of an article by Gordon Murray about the NSX. You'll find this very enlightening.


"A Car Near and Dear to my Heart Comments on the NSX by Gordon Murray
To this day, the NSX is still a car that is near and dear to my heart. I put 75,000 Km on my NSX over the course of six or seven years. It's very difficult to discuss the NSX using current values and sensibilities. When the NSX debuted, the word "supercar" was still a relatively new idea in Europe. There are some who would say the Lamborghini Miura from the late 1960s was the first supercar. However, the truth is the explosion of modern supercars really started at the end of the 1980s. At the end of the 80s was the time when McLaren Cars was conceiving the idea for the McLaren F1. To that end, I was concentrating on coming up with what I wanted in a road car. To my thinking, the ideal car is one in which I could get in the driver's seat and be out for a drive in downtown London, and then want to continue straight on to southern France. A car that you can trust, with functional air conditioning, and retains daily drivability. No offset pedals allowed. No high dashboards restricting your view either. Having a low roof hitting your head every time you go over a bump in the name of aerodynamics and styling is out of the question. It is essential that a supercar be a pleasure to drive, and anything detracting from that must be excised. I started by driving the cars known then as "supercars." The Porsche 959, Bugatti EB110, Ferrari F40, Jaguar XJ220. Unfortunately, none of these fit the pattern of the supercar we were trying to build. What we wanted was a relatively compact, usable driver's car. The Porsche 911 had the usability, but with the engine packed in the back, it had a weakness in its handling stability.

During this time, we were able to visit with Ayrton Senna (the late F1 Champion) and Honda's Tochigi Research Center. The visit related to the fact that at the time, McLaren's F1 Grand Prix cars were using Honda engines. Coincidentally, I spotted an NSX prototype parked near the course. I also learned at the time that Ayrton was assisting in the development of the NSX. And that Honda rear mid-engined sports car--the NSX--was the friendly supercar that we had been looking for. This car had perfectly functional air conditioning, a reasonably roomy trunk, and of course, it was a Honda, with the high levels of quality and reliability that implies. Then I had the opportunity to drive it. Along with Ron Dennis (President, McLaren Cars) and Mansour Ojjeh (Tag McLaren Group Representative), we drove the prototype on the Tochigi Research Center test course. I remember being moved, thinking, "It is remarkable how our vision comes through in this car."
Of course as you know, the engine has only six cylinders; however, the NSX's very rigid chassis is excellent and would easily be capable of handling more power. Although it's true I had thought it would have been better to put a larger engine, the moment I drove the "little" NSX, all the benchmark cars--Ferrari, Porsche, Lamborghini--I had been using as references in the development of my car vanished from my mind. Of course the car we would create, the McLaren F1, needed to be faster than the NSX, but the NSX's ride quality and handling would become our new design target.

When working on the development of a new car for years, it's easy to be caught in certain pitfalls. When you drive the car under development for testing every day (in truth, I was responsible for two-thirds of the testing for the McLaren F1), in that time, you can unknowingly convince yourself you are making progress when in fact you are not. For example, it's human nature that at the end of a long day you may want to think that your efforts to reduce low speed harshness are working better than they are. It is at times like this when you need a car to compare with. In those situations, the NSX time and again showed us the path in the areas of ride quality and handling, and also helped us recognize when we weren't making as much progress as we thought.


In my opinion, the NSX's most special quality has long been overlooked.
That could be summarized with the words, "The NSX's suspension is amazing." Both the body and suspension are aluminum, and it probably couldn't be helped that journalists' attention has been focused on praising the aluminum body. However, the suspension is the much more impressive use of aluminum. It's lightweight, tough, yet compliant. Also contributing to the refined NSX's handling and ride quality are 17 inch wheels and tires that are not overly large. The NSX's suspension is truly an ingenious system, and back then I imagined the development costs must have been enormous. To achieve that unparalleled accuracy and superior ride quality, longitudinal wheel movement is allowed via the use of a compliance pivot. Compliance refers to when you travel over a bump, the tire experiences a longitudinal force, which the tire and suspension must move with and absorb the shock. The pivot couples the upper and lower arms. It is connected to the arms via ball joints so that they move as a unit. When encountering input, the pivot rotates, keeping alignment changes to near zero while retaining compliance (see diagram). The inspiration obtained from this NSX suspension system would later influence the development of the McLaren F1's suspension.

The NSX was also the first car to use DBW (Drive By Wire). It felt very pleasing. DBW is when instead of using a mechanical cable, an electronic signal is used to communicate throttle position. It achieved a very natural, linear feeling throttle, and I can now hide my embarrassment and confess that I copied the idea during the development of the McLaren F1 (laughs). The low-slung NSX's driver's seat position also provided just the right head clearance and an amazing field of view. The NSX development team moved the air conditioning unit away from the dash and deep into the NSX's nose in order to obtain more space. That air conditioning unit is an excellent unit, and normally, you don't notice whether it's on or not. On the day I bought the NSX, I pressed the "Auto" button and since then until selling it, I never had to touch it. It was that perfect. Ah, I also remember the audio system as being very good. However, the media wrote up the aluminum body, and the many merits and advantages I perceived in the NSX have largely been overlooked. In my opinion, the NSX, while being such a great sports car, had two large flaws in it's marketing. First, at the time, the public was not ready to accept a Japanese car that was this expensive. The second is that for supercar customers, the power figures were not quite high enough. Of course, the prototype's engine was not bad, and soon the VTEC engine was added. Whenever I hear that VTEC sound it's amazing. I am repeating myself, but the NSX's excellent chassis would have been capable of handling much more power. With just a slightly lower price, or possibly selling it with a different brand name and a different badge, or perhaps endowing it with a touch flashier and more aggressive styling and additional power, there is no question the NSX would have reigned as a cult star of the supercars. However, during that time, in Honda's philosophy there was a resistance to large engines with many cylinders. I am not certain, but probably at the time, the voluntary restraint on power limits was a factor. Being a fan of Honda engines, I later went to Honda's Tochigi Research Center on two occasions and requested that they consider building for the McLaren F1 a 4.5 liter V10 or V12. I asked, I tried to persuade them, but in the end could not convince them to do it, and the McLaren F1 ended up equipped with a BMW engine.

The NSX's development costs must have been enormous. Everything on it is unique. The chassis, powertrain, even the air conditioning are peerless. That aluminum body was very expensive. The numerous hurdles overcome by the NSX to reach production in areas such as spot welding, corrosion, and repairability make it a monumental work in automotive history. The philosophy of creating a car for human beings comes through. If it were me, I probably would not have obsessed over the aluminum and would have settled for a steel structure with aluminum panels to try to achieve a similar weight reduction. But what I really want to emphasize is the suspension. It is a a groundbreaking use of aluminum.
There are a few things that could be improved on the NSX. First, the tires are too soft. Over the seven years I ran mine, I went through 14 sets of tires. After changing over to harder-compound Michelins in the rear, my tire life increased. As a result, rear grip was decreased slightly, but driving became more fun. The NSX's traction control and ABS are first generation systems and as a result are somewhat slow-acting. I also missed having more storage space in the interior. However, such things hardly seem significant in a sports car of this caliber.
The NSX is a landmark car. It awoke not only a lazy Ferrari, but Porsche as well and sparked advances in usability, ergonomics, and handling. It may not have achieved success from a marketing standpoint, but many influential and important people have owned them. The NSX is also unusual in that it continued to be on sale for so long. If I were to looking for that type of car now, I would--without a doubt--gladly own an NSX again."
 
Porsche has no soul, they just don't stand out when passing by on the road, like Corvettes. Where I live, both cars are very common and when they pass by, they evoke as much attention as an old VW Rabbit. Not "dissing" on either car, they are fine machines, they just lack "soul" as you say.

NSX is rare and it will spark interest from people who see you pass by. That's soul right there.

Or.... Crank some soul music in any car and there you have it.
 
So not true. Porsche has been racing since 1948. Honda may have had some success in F1 in the late 80's, etc. but will not come even close to the race pedigree and history that Porsche has. Hell, Porsche still makes a factory built race car that anyone can order (GT3 RSR). Take a look at this:

http://www.porsche.com/usa/eventsandracing/motorsport/philosophy/history/victories/

Honda doesn't even come close to second. Maybe 100th.

Porsche products count 28,000 combined victories in various forms of motorsport over the 70 year history of the company. No other brand is even close to those numbers.
Thank you. Porsche is indeed the most winningest marque in the world and has had tremendous success in virtually any form of internationally appealing races. As a boy and growing up, I don't remember Porsche NOT winning any race. Of course, Porsche must have lost some races but the trophies that they won are staggering and you just hear the name "Porsche" win after win. The magazines reports Porsche's victory like a broken record. From an early age, I have become a Porsche fan from being bombarded by their successes. In 1982 Le Mans, Porsche's #1, #2, #3 Rothmans 956s crossed the finish line in exact order. All I could muttered was "dammmmmmmmmmmm!" I have the 1/43 Minichamps 956 models depicting the event. The set was signed by Derek Bell. Don't let me start talking about the 917. I will always be a Porsche fan. I don't believe Porsche's win record will ever be come close by any marque let alone surpassing it. I liked Honda too but it was more like the little cute cars that gave me good gas mileage. I had a 1985 CRX Si that I loved through graduate school. But it never occured to me that a Honda would be worthy to be in my garage as my toy. Then the brilliant NSX came out and it pretty much beat everyone. With its reputed reliability, sterling performance, and reasonable price, I didn't know any car I would want more than the NSX when I finally finished my training. I considered the Testarossa but with its notorious reliability issues and astronomical operating cost, the NSX was clearly the hands down winner. "Soul" is not an attractive thing. It translates to pulling hair, cut knuckles, motherf*****, kicking the dog, and @#$%& all day long. See, having a "soulful" beautiful car is not for everyone. When she is brand new, you would not be able to keep your hands off her and she would perform eagerly and reliably. As times goes by, as her "new car" smells fades, she would show her real nature. You want to take a ride, she might refuse to start and demand that you should jump start her motor with a few new spark plugs. Often, she might even flatly give you a failed main relay. At times, when she finally starts with the first turn of the key, as you are putting on your driving gloves and getting the joystick ready(manual transmission. Forget about the automatic) , she might all of a sudden refuse to let you shift into first gear or any gear. Being so desperate, you might give in by bringing her to some shops to buy the much needed goodies to perhaps give her an overhaul. Sometimes it works right on but a lot of times more glitches will come up requiring more special and more expensive parts. Okay, still with a slight hope of making her perform as before, you refurbish every single component with the top notch stuffs. New everyhing!!! It works, it works! Now she is eager and excited and award you with the best ride in you life with the air cond in full blowing mode. If you are lucky, these accessaries/parts may hold up a few days. there is no telling that she would honor any warranty. The same cycle goes back and forth and you comply again and again. At some point down the road, you figure you have already invested so much in that relationship and she is getting a little naughty again, she needs MODS! New bra, new HID headlights( you happen to like the whiteNSXs' brand), new shoes, rear end mod, and so on. All your friends are jealous and all would stare at her and drool all day long without knowing how temperamental she is. You continue to smile at your friend while telling them how soulful she is. Sure you got the bragging right but not without these astronomical maintenance costs. "So, Guido, how is she in the track?" "She has the nicest bod and performs like no others", you answered while trying to remember when she last performed. 3 months, a year, 2 years? With persistence, you finally remember the good old days that you and she had and all the stormy times. Forgeting pain is a human nature. Again, you are blinded by that stunning beauty and would continue that exotic experience. As time goes by, you finally had enough and decide to give her up. Autotrader?
"Garage queen. Tremendous charater. Gorgeous and has sinful curves. Sounds awesome and would scream with WOT. Obsessive owner who did ALL maintenances including the preventative 90k miles services including all belts and waterpumps. Gets lubed often even it does not get driven much. Turns heads everywhere. You will be the envies of all your friends and see their mouth drop every time you take her out. 987 miles on odometer. No, it is not a typo. Practically brand new. Only driven 3 times over 2 years. Bankruptcy forces sale. My loss is your gain. It is your chance to own this SOULFUL machine."

Well, I chose the NSX which is beautiful and she performs EVERYTIME and it performs WELL. Ecstatic to ride with its willing and responsive engine. Low maintenance requiring no excessive costs. Quiet at idle and sounds orgasmic when the pistons are working hard. Tight and solid. Never fails to get in gear. AC works and blows strongly. Oil pump never fails to provide the needed lubrications.
So what more can one ask from a sports car? Heck, I don't smoke but surely feels like smoking one after driving her.
The soulful machines are awesome to look and will perform mighty awesome WHEN they start. In my book, reliability and performance are top priority. Without reliability, there is NO performance. For the soulful experience, it is better to just rent one. Ride as you pay. Why buy the cow when you can buy the milk cheap in Safeway?
Enough rambling. I am going to drive the NSX.
Steve
 
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This last post by "whitensx" is just about how I feel to a tee. I would add just a little note to the bit about cars that won't start, demand a lot of cash to keep running right - that's not what is typically experienced with a 911. Not any of the later models since 70 really. Sure they cost to keep on the road but then what 38 year old car doesn't. I wonder what will be said on this list when the NSX starts getting to be 40 years old??? Probably will still be working really well. I hope I'm around and still writing about them then!

Porsches run very well, but the newer ones are not built like the older ones, that's just it plain and simple. They probably run better now than the ever have up to a certain mileage and the interior in the 996 is nothing to write home about. I would agree with the basic premiss of the WNSX in that they sure do cost to keep running perfectly once they get to be a certain age, but the 3.2 G50 years from 87 to 89 are really pretty bullit proof too. They just don't perform like an NSX or even the later 993. They are not "modern fast". Now it may be that WNSX is talking about a lot of different super cars like the Lambo or Ferrari and I have no idea about them except that I've heard about how much it costs to keep a Ferarri on the road and um, no thanks. So lots of super cars out there that need lots of cash to run right.

The NSX is modern day fast, maybe not like a Lambo, or 996 TT or some others but they sure aren't too far off. What the NSX has in spades apparently is one of the best tuned suspenions in the world! Not to mention awesome reliability! They look great too and the seats are comfortable, at least they sure look comfy and by what I'm hearing here on this site. It I'm sure cranks everytime but every thing wears out eventually even the NSX I'm sure. IF it's mechanical it has a life span! No doubt, it's probably just longer than all the other exotics.

I'm really enjoying what I've been reading here and all you guys and this list. Great bunch here! I just can't wait to be driving my own NSX daily!

Over and Out!
 
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Owned a 76 Z, then sold the car and bought an NSX, and now I'm back in a 75 Z with a turbo motor swap.

It's hard to beat a Z car as far as soul ( as you say your 240Z had alot ) :wink:

Honestly, I felt that my old Z and current Z have more character than the NSX I owned. The NSX is a brutally reliable, dependable, and stunning vehicle.
I agree with you about the Z. Today I saw one of the coolest car I have seen for a while, it was amazingly clean 70s Datsun Z parked in front of Marukai. I couldn't take my eyes off that Z.

That car is just such a classic. I want one someday for sure, that is my ideal Japanese classic car.
 
Tim, the following is the text of an article by Gordon Murray about the NSX. You'll find this very enlightening.


"A Car Near and Dear to my Heart Comments on the NSX by Gordon Murray
To this day, the NSX is still a car that is near and dear to my heart. I put 75,000 Km on my NSX over the course of six or seven years. It's very difficult to discuss the NSX using current values and sensibilities. When the NSX debuted, the word "supercar" was still a relatively new idea in Europe. There are some who would say the Lamborghini Miura from the late 1960s was the first supercar. However, the truth is the explosion of modern supercars really started at the end of the 1980s. At the end of the 80s was the time when McLaren Cars was conceiving the idea for the McLaren F1. To that end, I was concentrating on coming up with what I wanted in a road car. To my thinking, the ideal car is one in which I could get in the driver's seat and be out for a drive in downtown London, and then want to continue straight on to southern France. A car that you can trust, with functional air conditioning, and retains daily drivability. No offset pedals allowed. No high dashboards restricting your view either. Having a low roof hitting your head every time you go over a bump in the name of aerodynamics and styling is out of the question. It is essential that a supercar be a pleasure to drive, and anything detracting from that must be excised. I started by driving the cars known then as "supercars." The Porsche 959, Bugatti EB110, Ferrari F40, Jaguar XJ220. Unfortunately, none of these fit the pattern of the supercar we were trying to build. What we wanted was a relatively compact, usable driver's car. The Porsche 911 had the usability, but with the engine packed in the back, it had a weakness in its handling stability.

During this time, we were able to visit with Ayrton Senna (the late F1 Champion) and Honda's Tochigi Research Center. The visit related to the fact that at the time, McLaren's F1 Grand Prix cars were using Honda engines. Coincidentally, I spotted an NSX prototype parked near the course. I also learned at the time that Ayrton was assisting in the development of the NSX. And that Honda rear mid-engined sports car--the NSX--was the friendly supercar that we had been looking for. This car had perfectly functional air conditioning, a reasonably roomy trunk, and of course, it was a Honda, with the high levels of quality and reliability that implies. Then I had the opportunity to drive it. Along with Ron Dennis (President, McLaren Cars) and Mansour Ojjeh (Tag McLaren Group Representative), we drove the prototype on the Tochigi Research Center test course. I remember being moved, thinking, "It is remarkable how our vision comes through in this car."
Of course as you know, the engine has only six cylinders; however, the NSX's very rigid chassis is excellent and would easily be capable of handling more power. Although it's true I had thought it would have been better to put a larger engine, the moment I drove the "little" NSX, all the benchmark cars--Ferrari, Porsche, Lamborghini--I had been using as references in the development of my car vanished from my mind. Of course the car we would create, the McLaren F1, needed to be faster than the NSX, but the NSX's ride quality and handling would become our new design target.

When working on the development of a new car for years, it's easy to be caught in certain pitfalls. When you drive the car under development for testing every day (in truth, I was responsible for two-thirds of the testing for the McLaren F1), in that time, you can unknowingly convince yourself you are making progress when in fact you are not. For example, it's human nature that at the end of a long day you may want to think that your efforts to reduce low speed harshness are working better than they are. It is at times like this when you need a car to compare with. In those situations, the NSX time and again showed us the path in the areas of ride quality and handling, and also helped us recognize when we weren't making as much progress as we thought.


In my opinion, the NSX's most special quality has long been overlooked.
That could be summarized with the words, "The NSX's suspension is amazing." Both the body and suspension are aluminum, and it probably couldn't be helped that journalists' attention has been focused on praising the aluminum body. However, the suspension is the much more impressive use of aluminum. It's lightweight, tough, yet compliant. Also contributing to the refined NSX's handling and ride quality are 17 inch wheels and tires that are not overly large. The NSX's suspension is truly an ingenious system, and back then I imagined the development costs must have been enormous. To achieve that unparalleled accuracy and superior ride quality, longitudinal wheel movement is allowed via the use of a compliance pivot. Compliance refers to when you travel over a bump, the tire experiences a longitudinal force, which the tire and suspension must move with and absorb the shock. The pivot couples the upper and lower arms. It is connected to the arms via ball joints so that they move as a unit. When encountering input, the pivot rotates, keeping alignment changes to near zero while retaining compliance (see diagram). The inspiration obtained from this NSX suspension system would later influence the development of the McLaren F1's suspension.

The NSX was also the first car to use DBW (Drive By Wire). It felt very pleasing. DBW is when instead of using a mechanical cable, an electronic signal is used to communicate throttle position. It achieved a very natural, linear feeling throttle, and I can now hide my embarrassment and confess that I copied the idea during the development of the McLaren F1 (laughs). The low-slung NSX's driver's seat position also provided just the right head clearance and an amazing field of view. The NSX development team moved the air conditioning unit away from the dash and deep into the NSX's nose in order to obtain more space. That air conditioning unit is an excellent unit, and normally, you don't notice whether it's on or not. On the day I bought the NSX, I pressed the "Auto" button and since then until selling it, I never had to touch it. It was that perfect. Ah, I also remember the audio system as being very good. However, the media wrote up the aluminum body, and the many merits and advantages I perceived in the NSX have largely been overlooked. In my opinion, the NSX, while being such a great sports car, had two large flaws in it's marketing. First, at the time, the public was not ready to accept a Japanese car that was this expensive. The second is that for supercar customers, the power figures were not quite high enough. Of course, the prototype's engine was not bad, and soon the VTEC engine was added. Whenever I hear that VTEC sound it's amazing. I am repeating myself, but the NSX's excellent chassis would have been capable of handling much more power. With just a slightly lower price, or possibly selling it with a different brand name and a different badge, or perhaps endowing it with a touch flashier and more aggressive styling and additional power, there is no question the NSX would have reigned as a cult star of the supercars. However, during that time, in Honda's philosophy there was a resistance to large engines with many cylinders. I am not certain, but probably at the time, the voluntary restraint on power limits was a factor. Being a fan of Honda engines, I later went to Honda's Tochigi Research Center on two occasions and requested that they consider building for the McLaren F1 a 4.5 liter V10 or V12. I asked, I tried to persuade them, but in the end could not convince them to do it, and the McLaren F1 ended up equipped with a BMW engine.

The NSX's development costs must have been enormous. Everything on it is unique. The chassis, powertrain, even the air conditioning are peerless. That aluminum body was very expensive. The numerous hurdles overcome by the NSX to reach production in areas such as spot welding, corrosion, and repairability make it a monumental work in automotive history. The philosophy of creating a car for human beings comes through. If it were me, I probably would not have obsessed over the aluminum and would have settled for a steel structure with aluminum panels to try to achieve a similar weight reduction. But what I really want to emphasize is the suspension. It is a a groundbreaking use of aluminum.
There are a few things that could be improved on the NSX. First, the tires are too soft. Over the seven years I ran mine, I went through 14 sets of tires. After changing over to harder-compound Michelins in the rear, my tire life increased. As a result, rear grip was decreased slightly, but driving became more fun. The NSX's traction control and ABS are first generation systems and as a result are somewhat slow-acting. I also missed having more storage space in the interior. However, such things hardly seem significant in a sports car of this caliber.
The NSX is a landmark car. It awoke not only a lazy Ferrari, but Porsche as well and sparked advances in usability, ergonomics, and handling. It may not have achieved success from a marketing standpoint, but many influential and important people have owned them. The NSX is also unusual in that it continued to be on sale for so long. If I were to looking for that type of car now, I would--without a doubt--gladly own an NSX again."

This is the first I have read this article. When was this written? He is talking about drive by wire so it can't be that old. Thanks for posting!
 
My Elise had more "soul" than the NSX. The NSX is a much better street car. The NSX has more soul than my buddie's 997 (seriously, to me anyway). Japanese cars just have a different feel than German or British cars, hard to describe really. I had a '59 MGA that had more soul than all of them combined.
 
I agree with you about the Z. Today I saw one of the coolest car I have seen for a while, it was amazingly clean 70s Datsun Z parked in front of Marukai. I couldn't take my eyes off that Z.

That car is just such a classic. I want one someday for sure, that is my ideal Japanese classic car.

My first car was a hand-me-down (parents to bro to me) 78 280Z in high school. It was an amazing car and had tons of juice. It was a rust bucket and very old but I had alot of fun in it.
 
Many good points in the previous posts. Being of the older generation in these forums, I too would have associated "soul" with racing heritage, the finicky nature of the electrical systems, leaking oil/fluids, busted hoses, constant wrenching so you can drive it for the weekend - assuming parts were available ....... and I think most importantly as a teenager, the rumbling engine sounds or the high pitched exhausts of true sport cars.

The NSX has a dual personality. In stock and street driving mode, it is a bland sports car, perhaps even a GT if you truly assess the NSX-T. Even with aftermarket modes for street driving, it still lacks to instill that passions of sports cars as defined by us older folks. But take it to the track, and it will transform its sedate demeanor and put a big smile in your face - and track experience is totally different from "kill" stories or driving on winding roads. As you keep adding modest modes it will reward you further and show how competitive it still is after all these years with its subtle and understated performance potential. That is where one will find and start appreciating the "dormant soul" of the NSX.

Unfortunately, since few take their NSX to the track regularly to truly experience its full duality - a reliable daily driver sports car but also a very competent weekend warrior - and Acura/Honda has miserably failed to properly market/promote the NSX's duality over the years, few experience its "dormant soul." YMMV.
 
So many to answer here! VW bus, one that I've always wanted but the camper bus with the little toilet and shower, stove and bed. Man you gotta think that would be fun on a trip. Just need to follow it on the excursion with your sports car.

There was mention of an MGA - wow does that take me back! My first car was a TR3 and it had tons of soul but it had issues. My old 240 Z was neat but the 280z was better from a purely driver experience. I don't want another - the 240z is just too old and it overheated, even after I replaced the water pump which I did myself. They were easy to work on. No modern ac - no good in the south! I loved the comment in the Gordon Murray write about setting his auto climate control once in all his years of ownership - that is awesome. That's what I'm talkin bout! Gotta love that in a sports car!

As to the entry about tracking your NSX, would like to a little but isn't it fun in the mountain twisties? Doesn't it's power and handling shine there? I can't imagine that it doesn't. Now as a city commuter, which I plan to use it for some, I can see where it might not be exhileration but really as far as commutes are concerned that's not the most fun anyway, but I've always loved driving a sports car no matter where I went. I'm sure I don't experience the full measure of the car that way and I guess what the fellow is trying to say about the "dual" nature of the NSX agrees with the top gear guy that drove it to work and then on to the track, he basically said the same thing. I'd love to get on a track and Road Atlanta is not far away from me. As a member of PCA and the local chapter I get all these invites to DE days at road atlanta - imagine their surprise when I roll up in an NSX!!! Take that out there just for fun as I'll never be a serious track junky - don't want to hurt my NSX when I get it. I think I'd have every bit as much fun out in the west on some canyon sweepers getting into the vtech and listening to the reverb off the canyon walls with the t top off!!!!! If there is no traffic that is. Pick your times and I'm sure you'd get a real thrill - wouldn't you guys agree?

Soul in a car is illusive, is it the car, the heritage, the quirky nature of a british or german car? Is it the older cars that only really have that soul, mmmm, I don't think so. One guy was talking about his older cars and soul as if they are kind of one in the same - maybe so, but I rather think that soul is something more cross gender - it's perhaps a more raw experience and that's why a lot of Porsche owners have the long hoods, no ac, just pure raw drivers experience, the motor sound and no radio blaring out, just the sweet song of the engine and in that respect there is more "soul" to an older Porsche with the weber carbs or PMOs whatever than the more refined sound of the fuel injected versions with CIS or Motortronic injection. I can relate to that but that's fine for a few hours a month but not everyday - right? I mean lets be honest here, sports cars and refinement don't have to be exclusionary to each other. I'll take a more refined car, with modern ac and reliablity any day over that raw experience on a daily basis - how bout you guys? I mean who needs quirky raw on their way to work??? mmmm. I don't, I need calm refinement on the way to work with some "spring" (read "go fast") in the right pedal! On a moutain excursion, I would like a little refinement in a fully awesome compliant suspension and not the quirky nature of the old 911s, it may be raw, but you'd get a little tired of that on a long trip I bet! I'd much rather have a totally reliable auto first with lots of sport! Wouldn't that kind of be the definition in short of an NSX?

Tim
Atlanta
 
"Soul" is something older sports cars have (pre 1990's for the most part). I've driven modern day F-cars and L-cars and they have about the same "soul" as the NSX - comfortable and reliable for the most part.
 
Tim,
You have to go to Road Atlanta! I've raced at several tracks and that track is hands down my favorite! The elevation change from 10b to 12 is a blast and the esses have a really cool rhythm. Also, I don't know if anyone talked about the sound of the NSX's motor and intake, but it really is a big part of the soul of the car. I really like the growl of the intake strategically positioned behind your left ear.
 
Thanks Dr. I'll take your word for that and it does sound cool. I won't be racing, just racing around the track without any comp. I'm really not trying to beat anyone, just go fast and preserve the car and stay off the rails!!!

As to reliability- the other fellow says Fcars and L cars are reliable like the Honda???? Anybody want to chime in on the reliability of an F car? I don't believe they are like the NSX in that regard. I've never heard an F car referred to as bullit proof! That's the main point for me.

So have you tracked your NSX? Tell me some of your experiences.

Tim
 
Tim,
You have to go to Road Atlanta! I've raced at several tracks and that track is hands down my favorite! The elevation change from 10b to 12 is a blast and the esses have a really cool rhythm. Also, I don't know if anyone talked about the sound of the NSX's motor and intake, but it really is a big part of the soul of the car. I really like the growl of the intake strategically positioned behind your left ear.
I like your Skippy Formula car avatar!
 
As to reliability- the other fellow says Fcars and L cars are reliable like the Honda???? Anybody want to chime in on the reliability of an F car? I don't believe they are like the NSX in that regard. I've never heard an F car referred to as bullit proof! That's the main point for me.

Tim

Tim, f-cars and l-cars are not as reliable as the NSX, but they are pretty reliable considering the amount of cutting edge technology going into them. More systems, more electronics, etc leads to more issues. The NSX is probably THE most reliable sports car out there, but the other brands are far more reliable than they used to be. So, based on what most people think, reliability = no soul, which means the NSX, F360, F430 and Gallardo have no soul. The NSX maybe more so.
 
soul or soul + less is very subjective. For example, if you ask the nsx's guys then they will say "yes", if you ask the porsche's guys then they will say porsche has more souls than honda and then if you ask the Ferrari' guys then they will say the Ferrari is the most "soulful" car when compare to others.

As you see, the debate will keep going forever and will never end. One thing for sure, that is our lives will come to an end someday .... why don't we just stop for a second and realize that we are so lucky to see, enjoy and even have chance to experience these marvelous automobiles. There is no such thing as the most "soulful" automobile, nothing is perfect. There are always a plus and minus in everything in this world.

Having say that, I think we all should try to own a porsche, a nsx, a ferrari and many other cars in our life span. That way, we can appreciate the diversities in them.
 
I wonder if Satx read all the posts? You haven't chimed in but to say thread over. Man this has been an interesting string for me guess it's just old news to you guys that have them. I'm still getting pumped up about buying one which I intend on doing as soon as my Civic SI sells. Hope that won't take too long. I'm really ready for an NSX. But that's something I won't rush. It's important to find just the right one as I intend to own it for a long time.

Thanks to all that have made this string so interesting. I surely have enjoyed it.

They are all great cars the F cars, P cars, L cars and all have soul. I just read a great artical that anothe here on the list sent me. What a great read and what an unbelievable journey Honda took to build this car! We are truly fortunate as one mentioned to live in this time and have the opportunity to own such wonderful machines.

Can't wait to drive one. Thanks to all you guys for contributing to this thread.

Tim
Atlanta
 
I don't buy Gordon's story. I've read the story before and while it may sound like a great compliment on text, the truth is that he no longer owns the car. If he truly loves the car that much, why did he sell it. If he made a mistake selling it, why did he not buy another one.

Explanation, it was a great car for its time and it was groundbreaking. The world has moved on and so has he. He likes technology. His last statement, "If I was looking for that type of car now....I would gladly own an NSX again"

There are many owners on this site who will not make that type of statement simply because they never plan on selling the car. That is a more compelling case than what Gordon has to say.

Soul does not equal things breaking and car's idosyncracies. Soul is feel and feedback from the car. The car has soul if a driver and can feel ONE with the car.
 
Soul is feel and feedback from the car. The car has soul if a driver and can feel ONE with the car.

I disagree with this, based on the general context that enthusiast refer to soul as.

I can get great feedback from a go kart...I don't think this is what ferrari, porsche etc owners are referring to as soul. Some of the old marque cars have the worst feel in the world but many will still atest to the soul it has.

However if that definition works for you then so be it! :wink:
 
Cars have no soul? Tell that to these guys? ;)

<object width="410" height="341" id="veohFlashPlayer" name="veohFlashPlayer"><param name="movie" value="http://www.veoh.com/static/swf/webplayer/WebPlayer.swf?version=AFrontend.5.4.2.5.1001&permalinkId=v15252339xsqhxtH6&player=videodetailsembedded&videoAutoPlay=0&id=anonymous"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.veoh.com/static/swf/webplayer/WebPlayer.swf?version=AFrontend.5.4.2.5.1001&permalinkId=v15252339xsqhxtH6&player=videodetailsembedded&videoAutoPlay=0&id=anonymous" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="410" height="341" id="veohFlashPlayerEmbed" name="veohFlashPlayerEmbed"></embed></object><br /><font size="1">Watch <a href="http://www.veoh.com/browse/videos/category/entertainment/watch/v15252339xsqhxtH6">Strangelove - My Car Is My Lover [Part 1]</a> in <a href="http://www.veoh.com/browse/videos/category/entertainment">Entertainment</a>  |  View More <a href="http://www.veoh.com">Free Videos Online at Veoh.com</a></font>

That was kind of disturbing... :eek:
 
I don't buy Gordon's story. I've read the story before and while it may sound like a great compliment on text, the truth is that he no longer owns the car. If he truly loves the car that much, why did he sell it. If he made a mistake selling it, why did he not buy another one.

Explanation, it was a great car for its time and it was groundbreaking. The world has moved on and so has he. He likes technology. His last statement, "If I was looking for that type of car now....I would gladly own an NSX again"

There are many owners on this site who will not make that type of statement simply because they never plan on selling the car. That is a more compelling case than what Gordon has to say.

Soul does not equal things breaking and car's idosyncracies. Soul is feel and feedback from the car. The car has soul if a driver and can feel ONE with the car.


Gordon not owning the NSX is probably a good idea since that would contradict his F1. Heck, I wouldn't be surprise to see him let all of his sport cars go and leave just the F1 in the garage, next to some daily beater BMW or Benz.......
 
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