Totally.
The Official 2021 F1 thread....
- Thread starter SFNSXguy
- Start date
Totally.
After having had some time to reflect. In retrospect the red flag would have been the better call.
With the expected "new era" of the 2022 season and beyond. Who's to say this isn't Lewis' last chance. I'm reminded of Vettel, Alonso, Kimi. In many ways their situations are different but who knows how the teams will stack up next year.
I think the team principals should be heavily fined for trying to tell Masi what stuff he needs to do. Part of it is Masi's fault for not being Whiting.
There was a clip of Toto giving Masi directions. That was BS. Christian is guilty of that too. They should be fined heavily for that behavior.
I'm not going to bet against MERC in 2022 with all the changes being introduce for next year.
Bram
Bram
Time will tell. The new cost measures may show how efficient Merc is, and if they can compete with smaller teams.
I remember how successful Ferrari was when there were no limits to testing. They had the deepest pockets, now the money is spent on the wind tunnel, the computer simulators, and the people who do all the computer models.
A team like Williams (in its heyday) was able to do more with less, hence their success.
F1 is an arms race and always will be. That said, I think they should cut the engineering staff allocation by at least 50% and strictly limit testing. Just seeing the size of the RB crowd at Milton Keynes to welcome Max tells me there F1 has gotten way too complex and expensive. But, if you clamp them down too much you end up with Nascar- basically the same car for all teams which is boring. Part of the attraction of F1 is to see how teams choose to attack the problem of the Formula, but this also means some will choose wisely (Mercedes, RB) and others poorly (Alpine). Meanwhile, the smaller teams can't employ the 2,000 engineers to make a good choice either way...
If the engineering piece is neutered too much, F1 will lose fans like me. The nerdy tech is half the reason I watch it. Spec series (like Indy) is just not fun for me. I love the variation in hardware.
As I’m driving along the San Diego bay I think about America’s Cup yachts.
I hear you and love the nerdy bits too, but where does it stop? I bet McLaren has 3 PhD engineers who all they do is design the aerodynamics of the nuts that bolt the front winglets to the wing. I mean, they were using the vortex from the squish of the tire rubber to help with downforce.
Right, and modern F1 cars are aerofoils...
I believe that's why the costs caps are there along with the limited testing time, control tires, etc.
For example, I love the team strategy part of it too. To me, F1 is comprised of 3 more or less equal pieces; Constructor Budget/Team/Driver. Whereby in the past the Constructor's budget would heavily unbalance that equation. Now that they're attempting to reel that in.. we'll see. It will also be interesting to see how Porsche/VW will enter the fray.
Budget caps was introduced last year, and some teams were able to adapt, some better that others. I believe that ay team will a good set of Engineers can over come anything. The Areo work needed for 2022 cars will determine which team will be the best of the bunch. Merc already have one of the best Power units, and the best strategist in the business, although their reliability was their weak point on the 2021 ICE.
Bram
Bram
kinda like when a certain chess player played the computer...
FIA to investigate the Abu Dhabi 2021 GP....
The FIA, in a statement issued on Wednesday evening, have recognised the fall-out from events in Abu Dhabi is “tarnishing the image of the championship” – and have said they will study what happened “with all relevant parties”, as proposed by President Jean Todt who is about to exit his post following the maximum 12 years in office.
The statement read in full: “On Sunday, another FIA F1 World Championship season of competitive excellence concluded, and the credit goes to the participating drivers and teams. The FIA congratulates all of them for their performances in this year. It was a hard fight, and the best competition was displayed at each grand prix.
“The world watched every race with great anticipation, knowing in the end there could only be one winner. In this respect, many praised Max Verstappen for his victory, and Lewis Hamilton for his remarkable performance and sportsmanship after the closing event of the season.
“The 2021 FIA Formula 1 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix has prompted a large number of reactions from the F1 community and from motorsport in general, as well as in the public. The FIA’s primary responsibility at any event is to ensure the safety of everyone involved and the integrity of the sport.
“The circumstances surrounding the use of the Safety Car following the incident of driver Nicholas Latifi, and the related communications between the FIA Race Direction team and the Formula 1 teams, have notably generated significant misunderstanding and reactions from Formula 1 teams, drivers and fans – an argument that is currently tarnishing the image of the Championship and the due celebration of the first Drivers’ World Championship title won by Max Verstappen and the eighth consecutive Constructors’ World Championship title won by Mercedes.
“Following the presentation of a report regarding the sequence of events that took place following the incident on lap 53 of the grand prix and in a constant drive for improvement, the FIA President proposed to the World Motor Sport Council that a detailed analysis and clarification exercise for the future with all relevant parties will now take place.
“This matter will be discussed and addressed with all the teams and drivers to draw any lessons from this situation and clarity to be provided to the participants, media and fans about the current regulations to preserve the competitive nature of our sport while ensuring the safety of the drivers and officials
“It is not only Formula 1 that may benefit from this analysis but also more generally all the other FIA circuit championships.
“Following that presentation and an extensive discussion, the World Council has decided to unanimously support the President’s proposal.
“The FIA will therefore do its utmost to have this in motion within the Formula 1 governance and will propose to the Formula 1 Commission to give a clear mandate for study and proposal to the Sporting Advisory Committee, with the support of Formula 1 drivers, so any identified meaningful feedback and conclusions be made before the beginning of the 2022 season.”
The FIA, in a statement issued on Wednesday evening, have recognised the fall-out from events in Abu Dhabi is “tarnishing the image of the championship” – and have said they will study what happened “with all relevant parties”, as proposed by President Jean Todt who is about to exit his post following the maximum 12 years in office.
The statement read in full: “On Sunday, another FIA F1 World Championship season of competitive excellence concluded, and the credit goes to the participating drivers and teams. The FIA congratulates all of them for their performances in this year. It was a hard fight, and the best competition was displayed at each grand prix.
“The world watched every race with great anticipation, knowing in the end there could only be one winner. In this respect, many praised Max Verstappen for his victory, and Lewis Hamilton for his remarkable performance and sportsmanship after the closing event of the season.
“The 2021 FIA Formula 1 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix has prompted a large number of reactions from the F1 community and from motorsport in general, as well as in the public. The FIA’s primary responsibility at any event is to ensure the safety of everyone involved and the integrity of the sport.
“The circumstances surrounding the use of the Safety Car following the incident of driver Nicholas Latifi, and the related communications between the FIA Race Direction team and the Formula 1 teams, have notably generated significant misunderstanding and reactions from Formula 1 teams, drivers and fans – an argument that is currently tarnishing the image of the Championship and the due celebration of the first Drivers’ World Championship title won by Max Verstappen and the eighth consecutive Constructors’ World Championship title won by Mercedes.
“Following the presentation of a report regarding the sequence of events that took place following the incident on lap 53 of the grand prix and in a constant drive for improvement, the FIA President proposed to the World Motor Sport Council that a detailed analysis and clarification exercise for the future with all relevant parties will now take place.
“This matter will be discussed and addressed with all the teams and drivers to draw any lessons from this situation and clarity to be provided to the participants, media and fans about the current regulations to preserve the competitive nature of our sport while ensuring the safety of the drivers and officials
“It is not only Formula 1 that may benefit from this analysis but also more generally all the other FIA circuit championships.
“Following that presentation and an extensive discussion, the World Council has decided to unanimously support the President’s proposal.
“The FIA will therefore do its utmost to have this in motion within the Formula 1 governance and will propose to the Formula 1 Commission to give a clear mandate for study and proposal to the Sporting Advisory Committee, with the support of Formula 1 drivers, so any identified meaningful feedback and conclusions be made before the beginning of the 2022 season.”
Yes. I have a friend who is a Big 12 college Line Judge, and he says he gets yelled at and lectured all the time. And let's not forget Tommy Lasorda (RIP) going off on umpires during a game!
I'm in agreement the principals should be fined, but it is also their job to lobby for the team. At what point should they be "ejected" or "fined" for their behavior; that is a tougher question? Unless the rules prohibit it. But then FOM and Sky would just talk more and more!
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What a bunch of Jive Talking - the people who wrote this are clearly better suited to politics than sport
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Yep.
I love Formula 1, and AC racing, but at some point, the sport does become entertainment. RB executing a 1.9 second pit stop is one of the most awesome experiences on TV. A driver going through "Eu Rouge" flat out is just as impressive, but not as spectacular on the TV.
There is a line between thinking smarter, and turning the sport into a pure science experiment.
I think about what Ferrari was doing with their engine and the fuel management "loop hole" they exploited. The other big teams (Merc and RB) knew that Ferrari had figured something out as the Red Cars where quicker / faster than was mathematically possible. I do think that in addition to being Ferrari, they got away with it because the other teams, who are also trying (and possibly suceeding)to exploit loop holes just the same.
Could it be Lip Service?
I can't see F1 change their decision, and punish / reward RB and Merc (and the rest of the teams) for their poor performance.
That says it all and is why Mercedes will take no further action aside from Toto and Lewis not attending the awards gala. I would not be surprised to see Hamilton decide , that at this point with 7 championships ( and the record for poles and wins and more money than he will ever need ) there is no reason to risk his life driving anymore.
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This is a great way to put it. I think the line is different for different fans, which is part of the problem. Too much control by the FIA and you get Nascar or IROC, where it is truly a driver's series since all the cars are nearly identical. Too little control and the major teams with deep corporate pockets run wild and simply outspend all of the other teams (see my comment about the three engineers dedicated to aero on a nut LOL) so that it becomes a really, really expensive version of a university engineering department running RC cars around a track. And, the one with the most money always wins. Always. Wins. The drivers are just a cog in the machine and simply have to drive to a mistake-free pre-determined plan that was validated after 10,000 virtual laps on the simulators.
Obviously, the answer is somewhere in the middle, but right now I think we are too far on the "science experiment" end of the spectrum. I'm hopeful the 2022 changes will address some of this. I'm happy to see that RB got the engines to freeze until 2025, which will push down costs. But, the current 1.6 still sounds like a wet fart and takes away from the entertainment factor. I kind of wish they would keep the 1.6 but ditch the hybrid (we have Formula E now to cater to that segment) and run a twin turbo at about 4 bar using E85 or a similar biofuel for the eco street cred.
F1 and the FIA, will always screw things up....Merc also dropped their Appeal
I for one, am glad to see that both Lewis and Toto are not attending the F1 Gala.....let RB and Mad Max celebrate in their hollow victory!
Bram
I for one, am glad to see that both Lewis and Toto are not attending the F1 Gala.....let RB and Mad Max celebrate in their hollow victory!
Bram
Exactly my point. In "professional" sports they get a fine or a technical foul or some type of penalty for going over the line. What is the line in F1.. not sure but they both crossed it in my opinion.
They will sound better for sure because engines will rews more RPMs.
I've now had an EV in stable for 8years. The last year or so i've increasingly become irritated by awful exhaust sounds from ICE cars. Everytime I think of it I shock myself; Having ITBs and all on my own personal NSX... However, i'm now very aware that most of the general population either hate or simply cope with exhaust sounds in general. Unless it's pleasing in tone like a modern GT3, I've grown to have very little temperament for it. It's a shocking revalation to me. I feel old but the feeling is real. Even my SO notices how annoyed I get when a loud open piped Harley blasts past us when having an outdoor dinner. I think I was ruined by the recent "Burble tune" fad that's going around. If only I could demonstrate to those owners how bad their cars truly sound. This is a bit of a tangent, but if it's not a screaming V10/12 of the 80's and 90's, i'm not sure I'd even enjoy watching an ICE race live. Going to the track these days is still fun... it's a personal challenge in muscle/eye coordination but very rarely do I think.. wow.. that car sounds good as I wait in the paddock for my run group.
I'm not sure where this puts us in 10-20 years. I'll likely/hopefully still be driving my noisy NSX. Yet I'm quite certain my non-car enthusiast neighbors will have no patience for it. Today they still tolerate it as exhaust noises are still familiar for most people. I'm old.
