The GTR is'nt that quick what Nissan claims

[BD]

There are two type of car buyers, desire to own some thing at any cost, or value.

Reputations of R32-34 are so legendary that even heavily moded cars are reliable. Therefore, the newest one R35 should retain the same or better performance standard and still retain the same reliability when considering the price increase.

If Nissan offer the two tranny choices, the issue would never have came up.

What's the point of buying some thing that legendary but you can't enjoy the legendary performance without having to worry about the car taking a crap on you without Nissan's willingness to back up the production?

 

[FrEsHaZzBuRu]

This argument can be tricky because the GTR is essentially a super moded G37x coupe, iow G37x plus twin turbos. Same thing with the ZR1, just a modded vette. Modding by factory and aftermarket have became really grey over the years.

The G37 and GTR are two completely different cars. They don't even same the same chassis. The only thing they have in common is the brand Nissan before their model and a similar silhouette. Therefor, the GTR is not a factory souped up version of another model. Just wanted to point that out. :wink:

 

[stuntman]

The G37 and GTR are two completely different cars. They don't even same the same chassis. The only thing they have in common is the brand Nissan before their model and a similar silhouette. Therefor, the GTR is not a factory souped up version of another model. Just wanted to point that out. :wink:

+1, basic (as in basic layout and control arm/multi-link philosophy is similar) but beyond that, their are not too many similarities. GTR also has a transaxle.

0.02

 

[stuntman]

What do you mean you will be able to drive around the GTR for twice the price? The GTR will be faster than a CTSC around a racetrack. Take the latest R&T. The SPOON NSX-R GT turbo -- the ultimate NSX - was slower around the track than a stock GTR. Stock GTR- 1:26, Spoon NSX 1:31.

Maybe in a straight line you will keep up - it will be close, but who buys a NSX to drag race?

Don't read the R&T article...

Watch the GT Channel 3-part webisode where both the Mines GTR and the Spoon NSX-R GT were properly driven. They did the same time - 1:25 CW (With blow-pass -an additional hairpin) vs. R&T's test which was CCW (WITHOUT blow-pass).

0.02

Just changed my oil. Tranny shifts sooo smooth now

 

[NSXkkk]

don't read the r&t article...

Watch the gt channel 3-part webisode where both the mines gtr and the spoon nsx-r gt were properly driven. They did the same time - 1:25 cw (with blow-pass -an additional hairpin) vs. R&t's test which was ccw (without blow-pass).

0.02

just changed my oil. Tranny shifts sooo smooth now

lol

 

[N Spec]

The G37 and GTR are two completely different cars. They don't even same the same chassis. The only thing they have in common is the brand Nissan before their model and a similar silhouette. Therefor, the GTR is not a factory souped up version of another model. Just wanted to point that out. :wink:

Yea, sure Nissan tried to define exclusive design and platform for the GTR, but perhaps they should have stuck with the RB motor instead to keep it purely exclusive. The G37 has more in common with the GTR than you think. There has been talks about an AWD G37 coupe for a long time since the G35x sedan.

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/10/20/infiniti-prices-g37-sedan-and-g37x-coupe/

The new G37X coupe is AWD, "advanced ATESSA E-TSÔ all-wheel drive system" and also has a 7 speed autopaddle. Hmm... lets see, engines derived from the same source, similar transmission and body layout. Slap twin turbos on the G37x with some engine management and it's a G37-R for probably $60K, (msrp for the for the G37x is supposedly 38k). You are paying for an extra $10-20k for the GTR's looks. I'm not trying to badmouth the GTR, it's a wonder on it's own. People wonder how they are going to sell the GTR for cheap? It's cause the gracious sales of the G variants will help make up for the costs with the high volume sales profit.

It's not clear if the G37X will be exclusively 7 speed auto (due to the design of the AWD) or if there will be a 6mt variant. This article contradicts some others by saying the 6 speed is availiable for the G37x (probably referring to just the regular coupe or S variant). Sounds like the 6MT G37x would make a better canidate for heavy footed tuners tho.

Nissan should rush to fix this problem either by introducing the 6MT or removing or modifying the launch control option. It's still fishy as to how these guys with issues sparked the trans failure. I wonder if they really did just abuse the launch option, like launching it continous like it's popping candy in your mouth. Either way, I'm not trying to bag on the GTR, it is what it is.

 

[BD]

Well, what is consider a completely different chassis? Does TST, Accord, MDX, RDX and TL share the same chassis?

My friend who was in charge of Nissan USA NISMO division, who is currently in the marketing department told me that yes, G37 and GTR do share platform, that does not means they are identical. Of course Nissan has to do some thing to make it work for the GTR.

 

[stuntman]

Yea, sure Nissan tried to define exclusive design and platform for the GTR, but perhaps they should have stuck with the RB motor instead to keep it purely exclusive. The G37 has more in common with the GTR than you think. There has been talks about an AWD G37 coupe for a long time since the G35x sedan.

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/10/20/infiniti-prices-g37-sedan-and-g37x-coupe/

The new G37X coupe is AWD, "advanced ATESSA E-TSÔ all-wheel drive system" and also has a 7 speed autopaddle. Hmm... lets see, engines derived from the same source, similar transmission and body layout. Slap twin turbos on the G37x with some engine management and it's a G37-R for probably $60K, (msrp for the for the G37x is supposedly 38k). You are paying for an extra $10-20k for the GTR's looks. I'm not trying to badmouth the GTR, it's a wonder on it's own. People wonder how they are going to sell the GTR for cheap? It's cause the gracious sales of the G variants will help make up for the costs with the high volume sales profit.

It's not clear if the G37X will be exclusively 7 speed auto (due to the design of the AWD) or if there will be a 6mt variant. This article contradicts some others by saying the 6 speed is availiable for the G37x (probably referring to just the regular coupe or S variant). Sounds like the 6MT G37x would make a better canidate for heavy footed tuners tho.

Nissan should rush to fix this problem either by introducing the 6MT or removing or modifying the launch control option. It's still fishy as to how these guys with issues sparked the trans failure. I wonder if they really did just abuse the launch option, like launching it continous like it's popping candy in your mouth. Either way, I'm not trying to bag on the GTR, it is what it is.

I'm sure the 7spd automatic wouldn't be the twin-clutch true 7-speed electronically actuated manual transaxle.

 

[N Spec]

I'm sure the 7spd automatic wouldn't be the twin-clutch true 7-speed electronically actuated manual transaxle.

I bet it won't be the "exact" same, but more of a detuned or lesser variant. I'm sure when it's released, there can be more light shed upon this. Either way, it's like a slap to face if you consider to replace the trans is supposedly $20K. The G37 gets AWD and 7spd auto with a $6k markup essentially. Anyways, all I am saying is that it's not pointless to argue aftermarket vs. factory since the only difference these days is factory jacking up the price for these OEM part. Cash is king and if you can achieve something better for less money in all of the fields highlighted, then why not? Not trying to argue whether the GTR or watever is better than x car. Only thing I have to say about the GTR is include a damn 6MT and do some mass reduction (that's for dimensions and weight).

 

[stuntman]

I bet it won't be the "exact" same, but more of a detuned or lesser variant. I'm sure when it's released, there can be more light shed upon this. Either way, it's like a slap to face if you consider to replace the trans is supposedly $20K. The G37 gets AWD and 7spd auto with a $6k markup essentially. Anyways, all I am saying is that it's not pointless to argue aftermarket vs. factory since the only difference these days is factory jacking up the price for these OEM part. Cash is king and if you can achieve something better for less money in all of the fields highlighted, then why not? Not trying to argue whether the GTR or watever is better than x car. Only thing I have to say about the GTR is include a damn 6MT and do some mass reduction (that's for dimensions and weight).

I don't think their is a 'detuned' or 'lesser' variant since the Borg-Warner transmission in the GTR was developed specifically for that car, and the platform was designed with a tranmission tunnel to support the transaxle (transmission is in the REAR of the car with an additional driveshaft sending power to the front of the car to a differential incorporated in the block). If anything, the G37 would have a revised front-mounted (to the engine) transmission with a center-diff attachment to send power to the front diff.

GTR Transaxle:

If i'm wrong, i'll buy you a beer. But from standing under both cars the past 2 days, it's a little hard to imagine otherwise...

 

[NetViper]

Don't read the R&T article...

Watch the GT Channel 3-part webisode where both the Mines GTR and the Spoon NSX-R GT were properly driven. They did the same time - 1:25 CW (With blow-pass -an additional hairpin) vs. R&T's test which was CCW (WITHOUT blow-pass).

I watched it already, which is why I was surprised at the R&T article. I thought the times would be close, but they were not at all. I don't understand why the R&T drivers were so much slower.

 

[stuntman]

I watched it already, which is why I was surprised at the R&T article. I thought the times would be close, but they were not at all. I don't understand why the R&T drivers were so much slower.

Professional driver vs. enthusiast/journalist/club racer?

 

[NetViper]

Professional driver vs. enthusiast/journalist/club racer?

Yeah, but these mag guys drive on tracks ALL the time. No, they are not professional, but I would think they could get closer to what was done on that video. There is no reason to be THAT much slower. The NSX, at least in my experience, is a pretty easy car to drive on the track.

 

[bboxer]

It really saddens me to read some the posts on this thread. I understand the "younger" NSX set enjoys drive-by verbal attacks and disdain of other cars but as an "old-timer" NSX guy who's owned one since 1994 (currently a CT 97), I have accepted the fact that our beloved NSX has been superceded for years in many of its aspects. I also happen to own a GTR. I have put it thru its paces and a friend has driven his for a solid 8 days at the track, giving the press and dealers a taste of the car; he reports the car is rock solid and the transmission faultless. I certainkly have no complaints after 3 months and 3K miles. OTOH, my 360F1 had its transmission, flywheel and clutch changed at 1,300 miles; (after five WIR laps) yet you've never heard people question its quality. Please reserve your harsh statements, judgements and ridiculous suggestions of engine/transmission and platform choices to a time after you've experienced the GTR (Same thing I say to my Porsche friends when they ridicule the NSX); you guys should be better than that. The GTR is truly phenomenal, certainly like no other car I have owned or raced.
And BTW, Vancehu, who is your friend at Nissan; my son John S.(also an NSX owner at the time) was a NNA product planner in charge of the 350Z and the GTR from 2002 to 2007. he also helped introduce NISMO products to this country.

 

[stuntman]

Yeah, but these mag guys drive on tracks ALL the time. No, they are not professional, but I would think they could get closer to what was done on that video. There is no reason to be THAT much slower. The NSX, at least in my experience, is a pretty easy car to drive on the track.

Actually the stock 02+ with the stock tires and suspension and VERY light power-assist steering is a bit twitchy and unstable compared to the NSX-R GT with no power steering, much stickier tires, and stiffer suspension. I thought the R GT was easier and more comfortable to drive than the 02+.

Journalists do have a lot of seat time but it's rare to find one of the caliber of a Tiff Needell (who raced Formula 1).

 

[NetViper]

It really saddens me to read some the posts on this thread. I understand the "younger" NSX set enjoys drive-by verbal attacks and disdain of other cars but as an "old-timer" NSX guy who's owned one since 1994 (currently a CT 97), I have accepted the fact that our beloved NSX has been superceded for years in many of its aspects. I also happen to own a GTR. I have put it thru its paces and a friend has driven his for a solid 8 days at the track, giving the press and dealers a taste of the car; he reports the car is rock solid and the transmission faultless. I certainkly have no complaints after 3 months and 3K miles. OTOH, my 360F1 had its transmission, flywheel and clutch changed at 1,300 miles; (after five WIR laps) yet you've never heard people question its quality. Please reserve your harsh statements, judgements and ridiculous suggestions of engine/transmission and platform choices to a time after you've experienced the GTR (Same thing I say to my Porsche friends when they ridicule the NSX); you guys should be better than that. The GTR is truly phenomenal, certainly like no other car I have owned or raced.
And BTW, Vancehu, who is your friend at Nissan; my son John S.(also an NSX owner at the time) was a NNA product planner in charge of the 350Z and the GTR from 2002 to 2007. he also helped introduce NISMO products to this country.

It is great to hear from someone that has owned both. Great Comments. One question. You can honestly say you have never heard someone question the quality/reliabiity of a Ferrari 360?

 

[bboxer]

It is great to hear from someone that has owned both. Great Comments. One question. You can honestly say you have never heard someone question the quality/reliabiity of a Ferrari 360?

You are correct, a lot of criticism does exist yet not often from owners or F lovers. To them, it seems F can do nothing wrong. Criticism seems to come mostly from Lambo, Corvette and Ford GT people (completely dismissable) I've owned their cars since 1978 and have found faults galore and often ridiculed their production methods and hardware used for years. Point being everybody's up against the GTR, it is almost fashionable, yet very few have been closer than 3 feet from it, often criticising its shape (I don't think it is pretty either) and capitalizing on (fairy) tales of exploding transmissions and horrible reliability. I listen attentively when an Owner talks about his car but never give any importance to 2nd hand statements coming from wannabes or "would-never-buy-one" people.

 

[NSXkkk]

it's glad to hear unbaised comments from bboxer. GT-R is somewhere 1 year old now. too early to judge its reliability.

LOL. does anyone think that he is better than Nissan's engineering department or he knows more than their CEO does? if he tells me the answer is yes, he can try to replace their positions. on the other hand, something sounds like the whole Nissan Company already forgot that their R34 had a classic tranny. they really need you to remind them. also, it sounds like they dont know their new GTR is heavy, and their engineering department needs you to lecture them how to build a car.

 

[NetViper]

it's glad to hear unbaised comments from bboxer. GT-R is somewhere 1 year old now. too early to judge its reliability.

LOL. does anyone think that he is better than Nissan's engineering department or he knows more than their CEO does? if he tells me the answer is yes, he can try to replace their positions. on the other hand, something sounds like the whole Nissan Company already forgot that their R34 had a classic tranny. they really need you to remind them. also, it sounds like they dont know their new GTR is heavy, and their engineering department needs you to lecture them how to build a car.

The majority of complaints could have been avoided if Nissan had disabled the Launch Control in the US cars -- just like 99% of the other car companies that offer it.

 

[BD]

The majority of complaints could have been avoided if Nissan had disabled the Launch Control in the US cars -- just like 99% of the other car companies that offer it.

Yes, but that will create a major problem. The car will not be able to do sub 3.5 0-60 time. That is probably the single most attraction to by that car. Yes, it can corner very good, and yes, it has lots of features, but you know 0-60 and 1/4 mile time is what really sell the car.

 

[N Spec]

I don't think their is a 'detuned' or 'lesser' variant since the Borg-Warner transmission in the GTR was developed specifically for that car, and the platform was designed with a tranmission tunnel to support the transaxle (transmission is in the REAR of the car with an additional driveshaft sending power to the front of the car to a differential incorporated in the block). If anything, the G37 would have a revised front-mounted (to the engine) transmission with a center-diff attachment to send power to the front diff.

GTR Transaxle:

If i'm wrong, i'll buy you a beer. But from standing under both cars the past 2 days, it's a little hard to imagine otherwise...

Hey, you're probably right. I got a lil ahead of myself with the lesser/detuned variant comment. It's most likely a variant of the old R34 system. If so, it may prove to be more reliable than the current one though. That is if the current accusations are correct. I mean it is fishy for Nissan to want to void warranty if you use the LC feature, but there hasn't been concrete proof that the transmissions are crap. Some owners have claimed that it failed, but there has not been any legitimate proof that the cars were not terribly abused. We will just have to see what Nissan how Nissan will react and if the reliability of the GTR will hold up. I think there is so much attention on the GTR right now, there are many skeptics that are waiting for some achilles heel for whatever reason.

 

[stuntman]

One goal in the design of the car was to beat the 911 Turbo and be much easier to driver where more people could drive the GTR to it's limits and it is a much safer car to do so. I would say that Nissan accomplished this goal as the car is easier to drive at its limits and does a lot of the work for you (moreso than the R34).

A lot of time is lost in gear changes and by having more electronic control over the box, laptimes are greatly improved due to the quickened gearshifts. I'm sure the car might be slower with a standard box around a track. Plus the transmission would have to be cable-actuated like an NSX (transaxle).

0.02

 

[N Spec]

One goal in the design of the car was to beat the 911 Turbo and be much easier to driver where more people could drive the GTR to it's limits and it is a much safer car to do so. I would say that Nissan accomplished this goal as the car is easier to drive at its limits and does a lot of the work for you (moreso than the R34).

A lot of time is lost in gear changes and by having more electronic control over the box, laptimes are greatly improved due to the quickened gearshifts. I'm sure the car might be slower with a standard box around a track. Plus the transmission would have to be cable-actuated like an NSX (transaxle).

0.02

Yea, they did achieve what they set out to do with the current setup they have. They could cover more areas and goals if they also introduce a 6MT version for the say, more advanced/hardcore users. I mean the few tenths saved on each shift may equate to 4-5 sec difference on a long track, but that's where they can choose to use the auto stricty for that test. Besides, many of the other competitors were 6MT and they achieve great times. Of course they also had 150 or so more hp.

There is just something wonderfyl about the interactions of a clutch and gearshift as opposed to an automatic shifting. Plus, it's been proven that manuals are more reliable then autos. It also would make things cheaper in maintainence or repairs. I just think Nissan could offer the 6MT option to make it even more versatile. Even if it could complicate some aspect of the system or limit the user, it's a good trade off.

 

[stuntman]

Give me a dog-ring gearbox with a sequential lever so I don't have to use the clutch any day. :wink:

 

[docjohn]

Yea, they did achieve what they set out to do with the current setup they have. They could cover more areas and goals if they also introduce a 6MT version for the say, more advanced/hardcore users. I mean the few tenths saved on each shift may equate to 4-5 sec difference on a long track, but that's where they can choose to use the auto stricty for that test. Besides, many of the other competitors were 6MT and they achieve great times. Of course they also had 150 or so more hp.

There is just something wonderfyl about the interactions of a clutch and gearshift as opposed to an automatic shifting. Plus, it's been proven that manuals are more reliable then autos. It also would make things cheaper in maintainence or repairs. I just think Nissan could offer the 6MT option to make it even more versatile. Even if it could complicate some aspect of the system or limit the user, it's a good trade off.

Funny, but you would think all high performance cars that offer a choice of auto-manual/semi auto and a 6 speed manual would sell more manual or at least the ratio would be close,but I remember reading somewhere that modern ferraris only sell 10% as manual stickshift.