T-Belt R&R

NSXBill2

NSXBill2

Experienced Member
Joined
28 February 2003
Messages
413
Location
Atlanta
Well, I am deep into changing my T-Belt/WP now. I can't believe how torn-apart my car is! I decided since I had to drain the coolant (a job in itself!), that I would go ahead and change most of my hoses - all the big main ones and the oil cooler ones anyway. It took me three hours to R&R the three in the middle of the floor by themselves! TIP: Buy LONG straight and bent-tip needle-nose pliers and a 90-degree angle pick and some one-sided razor blades. TIP 2: Don't try it without using the silicon gel from a pool store. TIP 3: Heat hoses up slightly with hair dryer or small heater.

Right now, I am only torn down to where the three covers and pulley are still on, but I've tried the cam pins for fit.

I've been following Gary's DIY and made my own 3/16" cam pins. They fit in first try at TDC :smile: (BTW, cam holes and marks only line up every TWO turns to TDC). However, the first time, the pin in the front exhuat cam went WAY in to the cam, like 3/4" whereas the others just went in 1/8" and seemed to stop. Gary's DIY refers to going in 1/8" I rotated the crank twice and tried again - dead-on TDC. This time the rear exhaust one went WAY in and the other three only 1/8".

QUESTION: Are all the cam pin holes that deep or just the exhaust? Should I care as long as all the pins go in at least the 1/8"?

The DIY says you do not have to tilt the engine until you have to get the long bolts out of the A/C tensioner. I got these bolts out (barely) without tilting. QUESTION 2: Will I still have to tilt the engine, and if so, what for? I think I can get all the cover bolts out without tilting, but not sure.

QUESTION 3: When tilting, is it ok to just jack the engine with a piece of wood on the bottom of the oil pan? Anyone do this? I doubt anyone has the Honda tool for this. Did most of you make a cradle like Gary did or just use a piece of wood on the bottom of the oil pan? Any problems with this?

Thanks,

Bill
 
Hi Bill,

There is no way to get the covers out without tilting the engine:).

You can use a block of wood on the oil pan, but.....it should be the full size of the pan, so there will be no chance of denting the middle of the pan in anyway.

Never looked at how deep the holes are in the cams, since I have pins with steps cut in them, that stop once in about 1/4";).

HTH,
LarryB
 
Thanks Larry. Haven't tilted the engine yet, but managed to get the front cover off. It helped that the clowns that removed the cover the last time left one of the bolts out.:rolleyes:

List of other things left off: matching bolt on REAR mid cover, oil pressure wire clip on rear cover, front seal on front mid cover, cap nut on front coil cover :mad: .

I'll be buying all these little things the tech was too busy to PUT BACK ON. This all occured before I took possession in 2000. This is why I toil over my own cars when I can.

Next: remove pulley, bottom cover, return to TDC, pin cams, mark belt/cam and crank pulleys....

Question: Use impact wrench or just breaker bar on crank pulley bolt?

Question2: Am I supposed to remove the dipstick tube? Larry suggested buying a grommet for that.
 
NSXBill2 said:
Question: Use impact wrench or just breaker bar on crank pulley bolt?

Question2: Am I supposed to remove the dipstick tube? Larry suggested buying a grommet for that.
Click to expand...

If the impact wrench actually works someone probably didn't torque the bolt properly. I needed about 700 ft-lbs, though admittedly it had been 13 years since being installed at the factory. I think Larry once stated he never found an impact that was strong enough to get one off.

You don't have to remove the dipstick tube, but the top fastener does have to come off as I recall.
 
Daedalus said:
If the impact wrench actually works someone probably didn't torque the bolt properly. I needed about 700 ft-lbs, though admittedly it had been 13 years since being installed at the factory. I think Larry once stated he never found an impact that was strong enough to get one off...
Click to expand...

Really? I used my crappo impact wrench to get my rear axle nuts off. Those are supposed to be 252 lb-ft and the crank nut only 151 lb-ft. Maybe there is something I don't understand here?

thanks,

Bill
 
There was no way that any impact wrench was getting my pully bolt off , you would not believe how tight that thing is on , try is though It may looses any corrosion , as for punches used for the cam line up , I used the correct size drill bits , works fine if you dont have the punches handy . I would take the pully off now and get it out of the way , as for jacking the engine up it may not be for cover removal but rather the tensioner bolt , not sure though as i did mine out of the car .
 
NSXBill2 said:
Really? I used my crappo impact wrench to get my rear axle nuts off. Those are supposed to be 252 lb-ft and the crank nut only 151 lb-ft. Maybe there is something I don't understand here?

thanks,

Bill
Click to expand...

If you get that bolt off with an impact gun, let me know:). I can blast the axle nuts off all day, but that crank bolt is a tough SOB. BTW- 181 ft.lbs. for the NSX, this is not an Accord:):):).

Removing the dipstick saves many knuckle scrapes, and makes the whole job easier, JMO:). Make sure you plug the dipstick hole after you remove it, so coolant does not run into your oil pan;).

I agree with Chuck, remove the crank pulley before loosening up the motor mounts.

HTH,
LarryB
 
And slip about a four or five foot piece of pipe over that breaker bar. Then make sure there is nothing to fall on when it finally comes loose.

Sulley
 
Who is Gary and where can I find this DIY?
 
NSXBill2 said:
OK, I'll try my 2 foot breaker bar..........
Click to expand...

3/4 drive I hope. I have destroyed two 1/2 drive breaker bars on this, I use a 3/4 drive bar now. And the 4-5 foot pipe, as mentioned above:).


Regards,
LarryB
 
SweetChuck said:
There was no way that any impact wrench was getting my pully bolt off , you would not believe how tight that thing is on , try is though It may looses any corrosion , as for punches used for the cam line up , I used the correct size drill bits , works fine if you dont have the punches handy . I would take the pully off now and get it out of the way , as for jacking the engine up it may not be for cover removal but rather the tensioner bolt , not sure though as i did mine out of the car .
Click to expand...

I would not suggest using the right sized drill bits for the cams to line up. Unfortunately I tried that on one motor a while back and they snapped when I was torquing the cam gear. Which brings up the problem of finding the small bits of drill bit and making sure you have them all. It was a pain to say the least.

And I have actually got the crank bolt off with a huge 1" impact wrench I have. Otherwise, the proper tool for the crank pulley and a breaker bar works as well(I have one).
 
MJK said:
Who is Gary and where can I find this DIY?
Click to expand...

http://www.nsxprime.com/FAQ/DIY/timing_belt.htm


I had started this writeup many yeara ago. When Gary wanted to do his I sent it to him, but it was about half way done. He did a great job completeing it, and added many good comments. I cannot even find my original write up, but Gary's is great!

HTH,
LarryB
 
Elite said:
I would not suggest using the right sized drill bits for the cams to line up. Unfortunately I tried that on one motor a while back and they snapped when I was torquing the cam gear. Which brings up the problem of finding the small bits of drill bit and making sure you have them all. It was a pain to say the least.

And I have actually got the crank bolt off with a huge 1" impact wrench I have. Otherwise, the proper tool for the crank pulley and a breaker bar works as well(I have one).
Click to expand...

Sure , you would not use them for torquing cam gears , but for holding cams in place while wraping the belt is fine , I didn't change my cam seals .
 
Fantastic work! Thanks a million, Larry (and Gary too). I don't know how I have managed to miss that for the last 6 years.
 
Larry Bastanza said:
3/4 drive I hope. I have destroyed two 1/2 drive breaker bars on this, I use a 3/4 drive bar now. And the 4-5 foot pipe, as mentioned above:).Regards,
LarryB
Click to expand...
OK, now you're scaring me...out to the garage I go with my 1/2 drive:eek:
:smile: :smile: :smile:
 
Bill,

For the crank pulley bolt I used a 3/4" drive set and a 3/4 torque wrench. To not overstress the torque wrench when removing the bolt, I set it to 300 ft lbs. It didn't "click", so I was under that amount for loosening the bolt. But, even with a 30" handle, that took some eyeball-popping pull on the wrench to loosen the bolt.

I religiously followed Gary's article, especially the part about marking the old and new belts. "white-out" (the office supply store stuff) works great for marking the timing belts. I can't remember which, but I found that 3/16" punches and drill bits dropped in further on either the exhaust or intake cams. The pins/punches/drill-bits should not be in place when lintially breaking the crank bolt loose. That can damage more than the pins! Break the crank bolt loose, then rotate the engine one or two turns (clockwise only) using a regular socket wrench on the bolt and re-insert the pins. At that point the bolt will be loose enough to remove it without stressing the cams, belts & pins.

My overall comment is that 95% of the job was taking off "everything else". Once I got the covers off, the actual changing of the belt took less than an hour - and I'm an anal engineer who double-checks everything.

Speaking of anal - I totally understand your frustration with mechanics leaving off miscellaneous bolts, clips, etc. That's why I do all my own work when possible. If those parts didn't serve a useful purpose, Acura wouldn't have installed them in the first place.

Frank
'96 NSX-T, red/tan
 
Got the Bolt Off!

Whew! You guys weren't kidding. That bolt is really on there. Unfortunately, I don't own any 3/4 tools, so I was willing to try my Northern Tool cheapo 24" bar to the point of breaking it.

Here is the method I used, just to add to the database. I put the crank tool on and set up the jackstand like Gary. I did have three 1/2" extensions which got me out of the wheelwell. I did use a 6 point IMPACT socket. Although it wasn't a deep socket, it did go on pretty far. I first tried the impact wrench, just to be sure, and I figured the impacts may shock the threads a little. No go. I didn't use any liquid wrench, because I didn't think it would make it to the threads. I then tried the 24" bar. It really flexed a lot! At this point I wrapped a large heavy towel all around the joint of the breaker bar and planned for how the bar failure would likely hit the car body, and positioned everything to avoid that.:eek: No go. Off with the floor jack handle and now I had my 4 ft pipe. I only put it over the last 6" of breaker bar and promply bent my breaker bar.:confused: Well, I didn't want that bent bar in my tool box, so I turned it around and bent it back.:tongue: Now I slipped the jack handle over most of the breaker bar, creating a wider load couple on the bar. I braced myself for if the bar broke, putting a lot of emphasis on pushing the bar away from the car with my free hand, and getting ready to land on my feet. BANG! Ok, I thought... I need more wrench. When I went to see what a broken breaker-bar joint looks like, I couldn't find anything wrong.:confused: The bolt was loose and nothing was broken. Victory was mine!:smile: :smile: :smile:

Question 1: I've gotten the pulley off and put back on and aligned to TDC with the crank tool on the pulley, not the bolt in the crank (the mark was only off by 1/4 inch). If all the pins go in, do I really need to rotate the crank again?

Question 2: Is rotating the crank (just a little) with the crank pully tool with the crank bolt out bad? is it bad for the crank key?

Question 3: Per Gary's DIY, I did not drain the fwd side of the engine, but drained the rest of the system (back of engine, radiator and middle of car). Will coolant gush out when I remove the pump if I don't drain the front?

Thanks
 
Question #1: if you are at exactly TDC the crank is set. If the front Intake cam hole is not 100% aligned it is OK.

Questrion #2: No, No:)

Question #3: There will definately be some fluid still in the block. When you remove the water pump, place a large pan under the engine, pry slowly on the right side of the water pump(where the pin that holds the spring is). Let is drain slowly, then pop the pump off. If you took the dipstick out, plug the hole in the engine block.

I typically fo not even bother draining the block, I just put a large pan under the engine and carefully pry the pump out. If you are careful it will drain nicely wiothout a huge mess:).

NOTE: MAKE SURE you are aware of the alignment pins in the water pump body and the block, ther are two of them. Soemtimes they end up staying on the pump. You must transfer these pins to the new pump or the block before reinstallation. Gary's write probably states this, I do not recall;).

HTH,
LarryB
 
Ftuhy, thanks for the tips.

Larry, thanks for the answers to my questions.

Now, on to setting, pinning, tilting, removing, prying,...splashing:tongue: ....
 
NSXBill2 said:
Thanks Larry. Haven't tilted the engine yet, but managed to get the front cover off. It helped that the clowns that removed the cover the last time left one of the bolts out.:rolleyes:

List of other things left off: matching bolt on REAR mid cover, oil pressure wire clip on rear cover, front seal on front mid cover, cap nut on front coil cover :mad: .

I'll be buying all these little things the tech was too busy to PUT BACK ON. This all occured before I took possession in 2000. This is why I toil over my own cars when I can.

Next: remove pulley, bottom cover, return to TDC, pin cams, mark belt/cam and crank pulleys....

Question: Use impact wrench or just breaker bar on crank pulley bolt?

Question2: Am I supposed to remove the dipstick tube? Larry suggested buying a grommet for that.
Click to expand...

You are not the only one who has had missing parts from a previous timing belt install. http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?p=654701#post654701

Bob
 
Elite said:
And I have actually got the crank bolt off with a huge 1" impact wrench I have. Otherwise, the proper tool for the crank pulley and a breaker bar works as well(I have one).
Click to expand...

I think I jinxed myself.:tongue: I started a NSX timing belt job today and the trusty 1" impact failed me.:biggrin:
 
enkrypt3d said:
Since you're already torn everything apart I'd go ahead and replace the harmonic balancer assembly (aka crank pulley and rubber inside it)

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75746

You certainly don't want this to happen! :eek:
Click to expand...

Yes, I plan to replace it. What's an extra $200? :rolleyes: This is why I bought the 45 mm crank tool and my car came with the 50 mm crank pulley. Don't ask how I got the 50 mm one off.

What's an NSXBill2 reply without a question? Question: When I put the new water pump on, I know to clean the bolt threads and reapply Hondabond to the threads, but do I need to add Hondabond or anything to the waterpump seal?
 

Similar threads

GGawaran
Depinning Relay Box
Replies
19
Views
349
GGawaran
GGawaran
TANTO
AC CHARGE PROCEDURE
Replies
1
Views
195
drew
drew
TANTO
COOLANT BLEED (my experience)
Replies
10
Views
369
Honcho
Honcho
MotorMouth93
  • Locked
*** SOLD *** NSX-R Differential
Replies
0
Views
200
MotorMouth93
MotorMouth93
B
Genuine NSX 91-05 Seats Modified
Replies
0
Views
255
biver8
B
Back
Top