Swapping a V8 into a NSX?

[svensko]

You were making it sound like it was on the level of Ferraris. I realize it's not nearly as cheap as a early 90s NSX, or any of the other cars I listed, but it's also not completely out of my price range if I just manage my money correctly and save for a while. Trust me, I know it's not some $20K miracle car, and that's on a completely different level than a S2000, and MRS at the very least. I meant inexpensive relative to other cars it can compete with, Z06s, F430s, Etc.

 

[nsxotic911]

In regrads to the origional question and the responses, I think it deserves a more serious thought and responses.

It's clear that the general consensus is that it's expensive, and that there are alternatives such as FI & stroker that provide comparable performance for significantly lower costs.

This does not answer the question however. What *specifically* are some of the options - does anyone know, has it been researched? Maybe the Vette engine is not the only option. A smaller displacement and overall volume displacement engine may be available (lots of V8's in the auto industry). It may not come with 400 HP stock, but with upgraded internals, even if it's ~300 HP, it could do well over 400 HP.

So, the origional question still stands - is there a V8 that can be realistically and reasonably used to swap the NSX. Given that a NSX engine new costs in the neighborhood of $20,000 and/or you can sell a good used one for 6.5 - 12K, if someone picks up an NSX with a blown engine (say ~10K) and/or sell theirs, a $10 - $20,000 V8 engine may not be too expensive of a trade.

 

[nsxotic911]

I think you need to take a longer look at the website.

First off the minimum order is $41408.

Second, the basic kit that costs around $28k doesn't come with nearly everything you need to assemble a complete car.

Additionally you will need to purchase:

Roll bar, side mirrors, headlights, taillights, brake lights, side repeaters & turn signals, license plate lights, relays & fuses, light switches, wipers (if needed), battery, battery cables, accelerator pedal cable & kit, clutch assembly, clutch kit, seat shells, seats, seat runners, seatbelts, instruments (speedo, etc), speedo sensor, other misc sensors, horn, wheels, tires, steering wheel, gear knob, transaxle, transaxle to engine adapter, exhaust, body grills assuming you don't want gaping holes.. also the body doesn't come with all the holes cut for the lights, etc which is an additional charge.

All of that adds up to another $20,000 (many of those parts are required for purchase, but all parts needed are not required). If you want an engine, you're looking at another $7,000 from the Ultima recommended US supplier.

Basically you need to spend that $41408, then get a $3,000 transaxel, $800 adapter, $7000 engine, $800 clutch, $2000 worth of tires, $1000 in instruments, and other random parts before you will even have a car.

That's it? That's cheap! All of the additional parts are cheaper then replacements parts for the NSX. Base of 41K - that's a 10 year old NSX with 80K miles!

Personally, that sounds like a bargain..

 

[tame one]

You were making it sound like it was on the level of Ferraris. I realize it's not nearly as cheap as a early 90s NSX, or any of the other cars I listed, but it's also not completely out of my price range if I just manage my money correctly and save for a while. Trust me, I know it's not some $20K miracle car, and that's on a completely different level than a S2000, and MRS at the very least. I meant inexpensive relative to other cars it can compete with, Z06s, F430s, Etc.

Yes, compared to Ferraris it is certainly inexpensive You need to ask yourself though, once you save up $55k, are you really going to want to blow it on a weekend car?

Anywho, back to the original topic. Space is certainly a big concern. There are transversely mounted V8s such as the northstar 32v, which isn't that large of an engine (it fits in Mk2 VW Golfs). Realistically you could fit a large engine.. NSX has plenty of trunk space to steal from but then weight distribution comes into play.. NSX is to perfectly balanced, it would be a shame to upset this. SBC engines are relatively light weight, and I imagine the v6 in the NSX is actually pretty heavy (I know the F20c/F22c in the S2K are heavy for 4cyl negine).

 

[tame one]

That's it? That's cheap! All of the additional parts are cheaper then replacements parts for the NSX. Base of 41K - that's a 10 year old NSX with 80K miles!

Personally, that sounds like a bargain..

:biggrin: wonder if anyone that spent $55k on an NSX will be upset?

 

[NSXGMS]

This topic has been hammered out many times before including here.

 

[BATMANs]

Can the NSX chassis even take the jump in TQ?

*itching to sneak out pics of FD with LS1*

 

[nsxtcy85]

Everyone and there mom has seen a FD with a LS1 swap before, so please spare us!

Back to the topic of the nsx *ahum*
I believe the nsx chassis will take the TQ increase as I see alot of guys on here with big turbo setups that have a stock chassis and have not complained of any issues.

 

[jond]

The only real question is with physical deminsions. And I don't know the answer. Assuming it would physically fit, you can fabricate anything you need.

One small detail though, we would be talking about welding on aluminum. That is a skill in and off itself. You would probably be better off teaching yourself how to rebuild a used NSX motor. "Blown" doesn't necessarly equal tons of money assuming you can do it yourself.

 

[svensko]

As for the GTR question, Yes, I would be able to justify 55K on a car that can compete with cars that cost 5x as much, would be amazing on the track, and would turn more heads than Steven Segal. It seems like the NSX would be cheaper to modify for a track car though. As far as the balance, where is the gas tank located on the NSX? Perhaps a fuel cell and battery relocation (once again, I'm not sure where it is on the NSX) to under the frunk (or whatever NSX owners call it) would help balance it. I should that if someone could shoehorn a V8 into a NSX and made a kit that they could make some big bucks from people that are sick of purchasing C30 and C32s. The limitations of the C30/32 seem to be around 500 hp. The LS7 starts at 505HP. Just a thought.

Don't get me wrong, the V6 in the NSX is an amazing peice of engineering, but there just seem to be better options out there.

 

[ak]

Here's exactly what you are looking for.

Factory Five GTM supercar.

http://www.factoryfive.com/table/ffrkits/GTM/GTMkit.html

 

[svensko]

I listed the GTM earlier in the thread actually. It's a nice car, but it looks like a Ferrari, Vette (yes, I realize it has A LOT of vette parts), and a Lamborghini had a love child, and then aborted it half way through the pregnancy. The styling changes each foot of the body. I'd like it if it could be purchased by itself, without having to purchase a wrecked Vette for parts. The GTR includes everything needed for the car.

And of course, the NSX looks better than all of the cars I've listed thus far.

 

[sahtt]

Want a semi-realistic answer?

You can get a 380-400hp C30/32/38 whatever engine that already fits inside the NSX perfectly for around 14 grand. It'll have 10 times the character and infinitely better audio qualities. It won't be as reliable as a stock LS1 though.

Also, the NSX's chassis, transmission, suspension, etc. will probably not be able to handle much more torque than the 380-400hp C3X will produce under heavy track conditions.

You won't get a LS1 in an NSX for 14 grand unless you already spent 6 figures on an education geared towards it and have a lot of spare time. And once you do, actually tracking the car with 400-500lbs of tq regularly will require reinforcing parts of the NSX you didn't even know existed to an extreme level.

Check out the race classes in Japan. The fastest NSX probably doesn't have stock c6 zo6 power, and there are millions and millions behind it to support that power on the track.

 

[tame one]

I seem to remember hearing the fit and finish on the GTM isn't too hot.

 

[svensko]

I seem to remember hearing the fit and finish on the GTM isn't too hot.

Since you build it yourself, the fit and finish is entirely up to you. At least that's what the representative said on the streetfire.net plug.

 

[NSXGMS]

Want a semi-realistic answer?

You can get a 380-400hp C30/32/38 whatever engine that already fits inside the NSX perfectly for around 14 grand. It'll have 10 times the character and infinitely better audio qualities. It won't be as reliable as a stock LS1 though.

Also, the NSX's chassis, transmission, suspension, etc. will probably not be able to handle much more torque than the 380-400hp C3X will produce under heavy track conditions.

You won't get a LS1 in an NSX for 14 grand unless you already spent 6 figures on an education geared towards it and have a lot of spare time. And once you do, actually tracking the car with 400-500lbs of tq regularly will require reinforcing parts of the NSX you didn't even know existed to an extreme level.

Check out the race classes in Japan. The fastest NSX probably doesn't have stock c6 zo6 power, and there are millions and millions behind it to support that power on the track.

This is all very true.

I would not necessarily say a stroker 3.8 would be less reliable than a stock LS1 however. There's no reason to think both engines wouldn't last well over 100K miles. Even thought the stroker is "built" the baseline C3x block and components are superior to the LS1. I don't think one could categorically say one is more reliable than the other knowing as little as we do about the stroker package's long-term life.

The one factor few consider is how an LSx block is going to disrupt the delicate balance of the NSX.

Even if the chassis can structurally handle 400-500 ft-lbs of TQ the fact still remains that it's very difficult for the NSX chassis to transfer that power to the pavement. You'll be spinning the wheels in any gear with any amount of throttle.

As a unique experimental project I could envision someone with time and money to burn successfully putting an LSx in an NSX. But to actually expect the final product to be faster on a track than a CTSC NSX is totally unrealistic. I do not think the installation of an LSx would result in an "improved" NSX and the money it would cost and time it would take makes no sense at all as a legitmate undertaking.

I think we can all agree that it is theoretically possible, as is most anything with cars, with enough time, money and resources. I think we can also agree it is not a worthwhile venture for 99.99% of people, particularly with enough skill to carry out such work. Anyone who could do such a thing surely has better things to do.

 

[SugrueNSX]

Ok here is something more realistic for you to dream about.
Mid engine, dry sump, G50 track/street car and best of all it’s designed around your small block Chevrolet V8.
It will blow the doors off just about anything on the track and you can put one together for around $100k. Maybe even a bit less depending on the spec.
If you think you can successfully put a V8 in an NSX for under $100k, you are deluding yourself. Unless you have the skills and knowledge and access to a high end machine shop to fabricate all the one off parts like transmission adaptors, exhaust system, mounts, electrics, one off cooling system, etc and you factor all your time of the one thousand hours or more it would take at zero $ per hour. But in that case you would not need to ask anybody about the feasibility because you would be the authority.

Regards,

Patrick

 

[TomCat]

Pantera...
Almost exactly same size, weight, etc...

 

[Scot]

I am not sure why it would be sooooo hard to do.

I had a 914 with a great sounding 350small block. it put out about 350hp and 350lb feet of torque. I am not knowledgable enough to know about all the specs but it had a great sounding lumpy cam with the cam gear whine...

there have been hundreds of 914's converted to V8 starting back in the mid 1970's.... why would the NSX be all that much more difficult?

Not sure what an NSX engine weighs but apparently a RX7 Rotary is on par with a 350 small block for weight....

 

[svensko]

Since the rotary weight = SBC weight has been brought up again, let me remind everyone that there's a very good reason why the 13B-REW weighs the same as a SBC. Turbos aren't the lightest things in the world. The turbo on the 22-RET I had on my third gen Celica that maxed out at 10 PSI still weighed a very significant amount, and it was tiny. I understand that a SBC may disrupt the balance of the NSX, but couldn't the suspension be tweaked enough to make up for it? It seems like if someone made a kit for the swap that they'd make their money back in no time.

VVV Exactly, and the relocation of the fuel tank, battery, and other things could rebalance the car.

 

[Scot]

I actually thought Renegade Hybrids was going to attempt to V8 an NSX, but I have not heard anything in a while.

There are also Fiero's with V8's so it sure seems like it should be able to be done.

I would love a 600hp NA high reving V8 roaring back there!

 

[BATMANs]

...Not sure what an NSX engine weighs but apparently a RX7 Rotary is on par with a 350 small block for weight....

I think a 13B with the turbos is about the same weight as a 350 aluminum block.

 

[rev440]

I think a 13B with the turbos is about the same weight as a 350 aluminum block.

I think that if not a we bit lighter. Also who has won lemans so many times? A katech built 427 in a C5R and now the C6R.

 

[BATMANs]

Did the FD race when the C5R was racing?

 

[AdnanVCS]

I have see a LS6 (new Z06 Engine 505HP) it's quite big don't think it will fit in the NSX plus it's designed for a FR car.

If you would put a V8 in a NSX i would think a Honda Mugen V8 would be better (with the ITB's)
They would fit better i think.