So I Wound up not getting an NSX...

[Yellow Rose]

Last Hurrah

This morning I picked my NSX up from the dealership after it had the coolant flushed. On the way there my wife and I were riding together and I saw a black P-TT going southbound. About thirty minutes later, going in the opposite direction on the same road I saw him again. This time being in my NSX and my wife following in the other car, I flashed my lights. You know - kind of a "wave" from one exoticar to another. Much to my surprise, he did a U and cruised up next to me.

Those of you familiar with Houston will know that Eldridge Parkway between Clay Road (Bear Creek Park) and I-10 offers much the opportunity to let a car stretch its legs. Before we knew it, 150 was on the speedo. Good thing we both have four Brembos, or should I say eight Brembos.

And he thought he was gonna hand me my ass on a platter? Not a chance! But I did get a "thumbs up" from him afterwards. The conversation at home between me and the wife was, well, entertaining as well. :biggrin: For any of you that want to lecture me of gassing on the street, because you were not aware of the traffic nor road condition, save your breath. :smile: Check my profile as to why Saint was able to tango with the Porsche.

 

[NsXMas]

No offense guys but some of you are being awfully harsh. Different strokes for different folks and why get bundled up in bashing another person's tastes? Homogeniety is boring after all.
...

LOL that's exactly why I would never buy a Porsche!! :biggrin:

 

[nsxtasy]

No offense guys but some of you are being awfully harsh. Different strokes for different folks and why get bundled up in bashing another person's tastes?

That's odd, because when I read over the comments, most of the folks here (myself included) are quite complimentary towards the 1. Granted, we may question the concept of choosing it based on its interior styling (it strikes me as analogous to choosing the NSX because of its stock horsepower - i.e. choosing a car because of its weak point rather than its strength), but as far as I can tell, no one is bashing anything here. In fact, most of us are quick to recognize the 1 Turbo's general superiority in performance.

Maybe in another topic, towards another, lesser car, but not this one...

 

[brian_k03]

No offense guys but some of you are being awfully harsh. Different strokes for different folks and why get bundled up in bashing another person's tastes? Homogeniety is boring after all.

Congrat's on the new P car. I sincerely hope it brings you miles of smiles.

Keep the shiny side up!

no kidding.
its a sweet car.

 

[len3.8]

Either way, just wanted to let you guys know that I appreciate all the help in considering an NSX. you're a tight and informative group. I'll still be around here lurking....waiting for signs of life from honda (HSC). For now...I'll see you guys at the tracks!! I cant to run into some of these 500Hp nsxs.....after i get my stage II done

You better go straight to stage 4.
Stage II has nothing coming, but grief. :wink:
Nice color though. Looks good with a black NSX.

 

[caseycarson]

Sweet car. Love the color combo. You gotta go w/ your gut. I'm sure you made the right choice for yourself.

 

[Dtrigg]

Congratulations on your pick. I was going to buy a Turbo a number of years ago, but the off set pedles drove me bonkers. Other than that, a great car. Enjoy.

 

[LJSB]

Porsche or poorshas look like a lump of clay dropped on the ground.
They feel much better than they look and are very quick. Even the automatics are nice to drive and under rated, under appreciated by many. Never driven a Turbo but I bet it's a rip.
Can't stand the ladybug shape,interior or sound. Even with a a/m exhaust it sounds like a old VW unless you stuff your foot in it.
Very dated looking.

 

[SCS2k]

Congratulations on the new car. Mine is Midnight blue with black interior. I did the stage II upgrade and love it. I also went with a GT-2 rear wing and front bumper along with a set of 19"s. Enjoy!

 

[NRG]

I keep looking at your car....defintely 2 thumbs up.

For sure you'll get head-turn with a lot of people, especially the people who loves European cars.

I love to have your car over the NSX, but those Turbos are too pricey for me. Maybe one of these days when i'm rich like you, i'll buy a Porsche Turbo.

Do you know the maitenance on those cars? I heard you need about 16 quarts of oil or somehting like that.

 

[91 X]

Nice! I saw about 3 of them today :biggrin:

hehehe :biggrin: LMAO!!!
That is the problem with Posches, besides the lack of "sophisticated" interiors they are a dime a dozen here in So Cal....and half of the time it is some old lady driving one

Now a GT2, GT3 or the new Carerra GT is a different story....

Nice color though...

BTW, it looks like you're here in SD (local dealer plates) anytime you want to try and keep up with an underpowered unsophisticated NSX, join some on the next O/P Run :tongue:

 

[Doc C]

Congrats, love the Porsche. You can't go wrong with a Porsche. Be ready for the cost of those oil changes, though.

Does anyone else see a problem with a car that costs as much as a Porsche does and them expecting $10,000 to have leather vs. leatherette?? The interior of the Porsches look like a Kia or Ford design. They've solved that somewhat with the 997s but I don't need a computer to check my oil or tell me the outside temp. If that's sophisticated, then I'll stay in the dark ages. It was bad enough that Acura made the CD changer and keyless entry optional up until the last couple of years. Good luck with your new ride. I love the TT 911. I just think Porsche as a company is really holding their customers up a little bit with maintenance and optional equipment that should be standard. That's one reason I loved getting my NSX. No options to choose. It had everything, except an outside thermometer!! :smile:

 

[SCS2k]

Congrats, love the Porsche. You can't go wrong with a Porsche. Be ready for the cost of those oil changes, though.

Does anyone else see a problem with a car that costs as much as a Porsche does and them expecting $10,000 to have leather vs. leatherette?? The interior of the Porsches look like a Kia or Ford design. They've solved that somewhat with the 997s but I don't need a computer to check my oil or tell me the outside temp. If that's sophisticated, then I'll stay in the dark ages. It was bad enough that Acura made the CD changer and keyless entry optional up until the last couple of years. Good luck with your new ride. I love the TT 911. I just think Porsche as a company is really holding their customers up a little bit with maintenance and optional equipment that should be standard. That's one reason I loved getting my NSX. No options to choose. It had everything, except an outside thermometer!! :smile:

The porsche comes standard with leather seats, just as an NSX does. What you pay extra for is leather everything else. This includes dashboard, full door panels, A-pillars, C-pillars, everything. These are things you can't even get on an NSX. Everyone critcizes Porsche for charging extra for the options it does but most of those things you can't even get on a $90k NSX. Sport seats - a no cost option, deviating stitching, carbon fiber, deviating belts, memory seats, heated seats, navigation, aero package, and more. These are all items you can get to customize your car that you can't even get on others. Why shouldn't they charge extra for them? You have a $120k Porsche that gets you all wheel drive and 415hp and much more standard equipment than an NSX at $90k. If these items were available from Acura for the NSX, you don't think they would charge more for them? I love my NSX but talk about holding up the customer, only 290hp, no real major upgrades in over 15 years and now it is almost outperformed by most every other econo racer out there, including the WRX STi, the EVO and even the $20k Neon SRT-4 will give it a run for its money. Come on people, let's be a little more realistic. Yes, a $120k Porsche SHOULD have all of these things standard, but a $90k Acura SHOULD also out perform a $27k EVO as well.

 

[nsxtasy]

Everyone critcizes Porsche for charging extra for the options it does but most of those things you can't even get on a $90k NSX.

That's not true of all of their expensive options. Many of them are standard equipment or no-charge options on the NSX; for example, metallic paint ($3070 ), HID headlights ($1090), automatic transmission ($3420), and the targa top (not yet out for the 997, but around $7K on the 996 IIRC)...

 

[LJSB]

. Come on people, let's be a little more realistic. Yes, a $120k Porsche SHOULD have all of these things standard, but a $90k Acura SHOULD also out perform a $27k EVO as well.

Look on other forums. Ferraris and Porsche's have problems running against the EVOS, STI and other economy performers as well. Who cares?


SCS2K the following is NOT directed at you or your post. :smile:

I have seen and driven the EVO and STI and while we're at it C5 Corvettes too.
I keep hearing about them being a lot of bang for the buck? Great! To those people I say take a buck and go BANG BANG if that's what you like.

Remember, Bang BANG after a short while turns into BOING BOING. :biggrin:

Sit in a new, O5' NSX and look at the interior and sit in a Porsche( forgetta bout a STI or EVO which are more like a booth at Mickey D's :tongue: ). NSX wins in my book. More of a cockpit feel. Porsche is too flat and dated.
Leather? You want leather on dashes? I got your leather right here. :biggrin: Leather on dashes sucks. They ALL crack,shrink, discolor and pull the stitching apart in time.
This is why the wise NSX designers left leather off key areas like the dash.
The carbon fiber thing I don't get. Carbon fiber was meant for lightness and strength on race cars where fashion was not a consideration. I think carbon fiber looks like the side of Archie's head, only black.
Rant Rant Rant!!!!!!!!!!
Sorry. :redface:

 

[qirex]

I have to admit that part of me HATED porsches's businessmodel of charging for a ton of options. however, as scs2k pointed out, many of these options are "custom" things. Part of the magic of owning a porsche is personalization. Sure, i saw a yellow turbo yesterday outside phil's bbq. sure there's tons of them here in socal, but y'know...I love my car b/c i waited and searched not for just *any* 911TT, but one w/ a combo that I truly loved.

Notice that the $10K full leather is that much only on a reg carrera. Those are the cars w/ crappy interiors you guys are talking about. A bunch of low grade plastics all over. Yes, there are TONS of 996 out there (best selling 911), and the great majority will have the plastic interior. The turbo however comes with full leather console as std (all seats are leather anyhow n/a and turbo). This is normally a $5k option on reg carreras. Now they really start nickel and diming you for the a,c pillar, center console etc...such that in the end it'll be $10k extra on a reg carrera, but $5 on a turbo.


Now the whole cost thing...sure some of the options can be expensive - and it pissed me off when I did the "build your porsche" website. I'd stat w/ a $80k car and get to $100k when i was done. What i was forced to realize is that porsches are LUXURY CARS...there I said it! You can go faster in a corvette z06, but its still a vette. I'm not saying one is better than the othere, but rather am simply stating the obvious, that price, as a barrier to entry exists to create a luxury/niche good.

Comparing apples to apples then, its clear that a brand new NSX at $90K is a very poor value, esp when compared to the competition. I think its funny how some of you can knock porsche for their practices..when acura (a supposed luxury brand) does the same thing. The only reason none of you see any nsx's out there is because they're expensive! And thus they have a degree of exotica.

I just have to take issue w/ doc c's comments re: porsche interiors and the like. In this life, we get what we pay for. You cant compare a $40k boxster, to a turbo no matter how ignorant you are about porsches. I know, b/c i was there 4 months ago. The last four months tought me a ton about all diff types of cars. I drove them all, pcar, fcars, mercs, nsxs tons...

Hell, i used to think that my Z had a nice interior (for the money) but now...its all about leather. Ferrari,bentley and lambo interiors are all full leather, once you experience it, you'll demand nothing less. the difference however is those cars (nsx included) have a ton of visual flash - exoticars. The turbo is much more understated - which is what i wanted. Its a daily driver for me. I love the fact that i can park anywhere w/o worry. For sure, ppl who know cars will notice, but not every tom dick/jane who will rubbernek a ferrari-bodied fiero.

oh i aint rich....just value minded.

a used TT represents the supercar VALUE of this decade.

I'll run w/ you guys.

I just love all types of cars and the ppl that go w/ them.

 

[qirex]

Look on other forums. Ferraris and Porsche's have problems running against the EVOS, STI and other economy performers as well. Who cares?


SCS2K the following is NOT directed at you or your post. :smile:

I have seen and driven the EVO and STI and while we're at it C5 Corvettes too.
I keep hearing about them being a lot of bang for the buck? Great! To those people I say take a buck and go BANG BANG if that's what you like.

Remember, Bang BANG after a short while turns into BOING BOING. :biggrin:

Sit in a new, O5' NSX and look at the interior and sit in a Porsche( forgetta bout a STI or EVO which are more like a booth at Mickey D's :tongue: ). NSX wins in my book. More of a cockpit feel. Porsche is too flat and dated.
Leather? You want leather on dashes? I got your leather right here. :biggrin: Leather on dashes sucks. They ALL crack,shrink, discolor and pull the stitching apart in time.
This is why the wise NSX designers left leather off key areas like the dash.
The carbon fiber thing I don't get. Carbon fiber was meant for lightness and strength on race cars where fashion was not a consideration. I think carbon fiber looks like the side of Archie's head, only black.
Rant Rant Rant!!!!!!!!!!
Sorry. :redface:

You gotta see the leather interior on my buds 1988 911 cab.

Thats when i started considering interiors in my purchase. His 20 yr old interior looked better than my 03 350Z.

To each their own, i hate to say it - once you go german...its tuff to come back.

I was gonna get a 350Z cab after i sell my Z. however, the new boxster S will likely show up in the driveway. When the FX35 lease is up...yup....cayeen.

There really is no other substitute.

Everything else...is a a substitute.

 

[Dave in Clarkston]

Congrats on your car! I love the 996TT and drove one along with a 997 after selling my Boxster with it's low end interior. :smile: In the end I decided on a low mile 92 as I wanted a coup. Also, by going this route it has also allowed me to pick up a nice air cooled 911 as well.

I love the fact that I don't see many NSX's on the road like I do Porsches. But if I were going to pick one as a daily driver I would have gone the same route that you have. All wheel drive and 415 HP (unless you have the X50 package) is hard to beat.

I could care less about the interior of a car. It's the way it drives and feels that makes the difference. When I ordered my Boxster I would have loved to have been able to order a Club Sport version. I don't want a stereo, A/C, or sound deading material that adds weight. If I had the money I would now have a GT3 in my garage. I have not found another car that has the great feel, and feedback, of Porsche steering and brakes!

I enjoy both cars for what they are and that they are different.

 

[LJSB]

Sorry, I think it's tough to go German. Over engineered cars with in recent years poor build quality. I don't care for German design. Except for a few like the Carrera GT not many appeal to me.

You're happy, great, but you're not going to get many converts in this forum.
I do not agree with you in your observations and opinions on the NSX.
To each his own and more power to you (no pun intended). I believe folks should drive and buy what you like and you found it in a Porsche. Congratulations.
Nice car, beautiful car, good for you, good luck.
Now go play on the Porsche forum and keep that leather conditioned.

 

[CerberusM5]

Qirex,

Congrats on your turbo. You will like 6speedonline.com. It is a great site for Porsche enthusiasts. I'm glad your car has the bumperettes deleted. Do you know if you have the hollow spoke wheels?

I love that Porsche offers all the individual interior options. I know it is overkill, but leather on all the switches and other surfaces is pretty cool if you ask me. About a year ago I was looking at a 2003 that had every possible leather option (all switches and trim pieces), custom leather along with the all important X50 and ceramic brakes. That car had an MSRP of over $180k. It is the highest MSRP for a turbo I have ever seen.

It only had a few thousand miles and the guy was asking $140k, but we agreed on $125k. I already bought a one way airline ticket and was at my bank getting the cashiers check and tried calling the seller to get the full name on title. He flaked out and ignored my calls. The jerk must have got cold feet. That cars was loaded!

I just wish Honda would put leather on the NSX's dash, doors and headliner. It would have given the car a much more substantial feel.

By the way, I bet a stage 4 kit should enable you to put some distance on an FX500 car especially at speeds over 120 MPH. On a road course the stage 4 car should be able to put some serious distance on the FX500 due to superior traction. 600 hp and 600 lb ft of torque for only $14k is awesome. You gotta love the twin turbo 911. Enjoy!!

 

[Doc C]

The porsche comes standard with leather seats,

Not true!!! The 996 Porsche 911 did NOT come standard with leather seats. Maybe on the 997 it is standard, but I was referring to the 996. Leather on the freaking dashboard??? Are you kidding!!!?? You guys mention using this car as a daily driver. Give it a year and wait for the leather to crack and split and look like crap. Then see how much it costs to fix. Every Ferrari owner will tell you how much fun it is to have leather on the dash. Your original statement was that the NSX didn't have a sophisticated interior. Then you say you were willing to pay $10k to add leather features to the 911. For 10K you could add the outside temp guage and a tire pressure monitor to the NSX and still have 9K left over. German reliability in recent years sucks. I had a V-10 Touareg last year for 5 months. It's the sister of the "Cayeen" as you spelled it. It was in the shop more than any other cars I have owned combined. I ditched it and bought a Lexus. Look at the reliability of any German car and note how bad it is. The interior of the 911 (the 996 model) has drawn criticism from everybody. The interior of the NSX has rave reviews. If you like the 911 sophistication and like the $10K price tag, then so be it. I love the 911 TT cab and will own one (the 997 version) but I'll also be prepared for poor build quality and higher maintenance costs. Apparently with Porsche, there is a substitute. It's called Leatherette!!! :smile:

 

[NsSeX]

Congrats on your purchase of a beautiful car! I've driven the 996 turbos before and all I have to say is WOW. The acceleration was awesome :biggrin: .

 

[CokerRat]

Sorry, I think it's tough to go German. Over engineered cars with in recent years poor build quality.

What do you mean by "over engineered"?

 

[qirex]

Not true!!! The 996 Porsche 911 did NOT come standard with leather seats. Maybe on the 997 it is standard, but I was referring to the 996. Leather on the freaking dashboard??? Are you kidding!!!?? You guys mention using this car as a daily driver. Give it a year and wait for the leather to crack and split and look like crap. Then see how much it costs to fix. Every Ferrari owner will tell you how much fun it is to have leather on the dash. Your original statement was that the NSX didn't have a sophisticated interior. Then you say you were willing to pay $10k to add leather features to the 911. For 10K you could add the outside temp guage and a tire pressure monitor to the NSX and still have 9K left over. German reliability in recent years sucks. I had a V-10 Touareg last year for 5 months. It's the sister of the "Cayeen" as you spelled it. It was in the shop more than any other cars I have owned combined. I ditched it and bought a Lexus. Look at the reliability of any German car and note how bad it is. The interior of the 911 (the 996 model) has drawn criticism from everybody. The interior of the NSX has rave reviews. If you like the 911 sophistication and like the $10K price tag, then so be it. I love the 911 TT cab and will own one (the 997 version) but I'll also be prepared for poor build quality and higher maintenance costs. Apparently with Porsche, there is a substitute. It's called Leatherette!!! :smile:

there was a nice article in automobile magazine re: the declining quality of the german makes. To make a long story short, the problem is that the japanese and americans have caught up, while the germans havent pushed the "quality bar" further. That and the overabuncance of electronics which fail. That said, while mercedes and bmw and VW slipped far down, porsche was still #5.

You shouldnt worry re: poor build quality...the later 996 and especially the marvelous new 997 are bulletproof.

Pay attention, my car is a 2001 996TT, and the leather interior is PERFECT. When i tell ppl its an 01- they cant believe it as the car looks so spanking brand new. So if this 4 year old car has a better looking interior than my 2 year old nissan i'm okay.

I'm not trying to change your mind - as ou already know what you know. One thing is clear however, and thats that you dont know jack re: pcars save what you read on the internet. I say this b/c i've thought *everything* you did re: crappy pcar interiors until i actually got out there and looked. I passed on an 03 996 b/c the black plastic interior w/ leather seats didnt justify the $60k tag. So of course i'm psyched to have found a totally mint 996TT w/ more options than I would *ever* have paid for...for $79K.


I think i did well for the money.


I'm a little geeky at heart, i like buttons to press, on board computers etc...

 

[LJSB]

What do you mean by "over engineered"?

Complicated, expensive designs (flux capacitor :smile: )
The most mundane and simple devices are made so complicated and expensively and often work no better or not as well as other simpler and better functioning designs offered by other manufacturers.
Things like hood safety latches that are so complicated with so many different materials and parts that they beg to break.
Or the little clips that fit just one part on one car for just one year, just one model and just one place. Break one and you have a back order that takes for ever and costs a mint, if you can get it. Everyone else uses a simple design that works efficiently and well but they over engineer, or over design a part to come up with a worse solution. Sometimes screwing up a good solution already in hand.
Example: the Christmas tree clip. Simple design that works for scores of applications on vehicles made all over the globe.
For a similar application a German car may have a three piece clip that is a one time use, designed to have one tiny part break and then you screw around trying to get the one, correct, needed piece to put things back together.
No one stocks them because there are soooooooo many. It goes into a 4mm hole but wait! Mid year it changed to a 3 mm hole! Next year a 5mm hole and a new clip! They keep introducing and designing and redesigning instead of keeping it simple and recycling a good design or idea.
I have a 3 series BMW at the shop. Four years old. Replace the trunk lid and tada! They have a newly engineered and designed grab handle/molding that you pull on to open the trunk. Looks exactly the same on the outside but has different hole placement. Buy a trunk, buy a new designed handle. Works no different because there are no moving parts but hey! Lets design it some more!
You'll come across the same type of problem on ALL German cars VW, Benz, Audi and Porsche.
Tail lamps for another example. Let's change from using wires to a stamped piece of metal and melt it in to the lamp. Ooops the metal corrodes so we change the alloy or make it thicker but now it doesn't work with the body module, wrong value in resistance. OK add another part in to adjust the circuit so it DOES work. Don't mind me and the customer we're in no hurry, you just go back in the lab and see what new mouse trap you can come up with.
German cars IMO are not what they were in the nineties and earlier.
The NSX is a car that was engineered with great care and thought as is the case with most Japanese cars. They don't re-engineer things that work, over and over again until they don't.

Now here's some real bait. American cars have the best technology and designs. Problem is they take great designs and make them with components
that cost much less than the original design.
I saw a quote in a magazine attributed to the C5 and it's engineers. It was a quote like: "We had this part that really worked great but by the time they got the production costs down, we got this".