Serious discussion on next NSX

[WingZ]

Hey guys

I did some serious thinking about the next NSX while washing my NSX and something occured to me. Most everybody has been excited about the V10 with 500+hp ,but horsepower has never been what has made the NSX great. Did anyone buy their NSX for horsepower

I've been wondering will "Honda get the balance right" and can they make the same sort of impact w/o the Ayrton Sienna influence?

The current NSX is not great because of it's horsepower and when Honda made it back in the day they didn't feel it needed to match the horsepower outputs of it's contemporaries. Even when Honda added a displacement power increase it only went up 20hp. Just about everyone else was still about a hundred horsepower up. Anyone know what race car driver is currently helping tune the suspension? I only ask since supposedly it's been spotted testing and only needs exterior tweaks at this point.

Oh well here's hoping Honda keeps the faith!

 

[liftcontrol]

Your "serious thinking", as you call it, is pretty mundane stuff. These facts about the NSX being relatively underpowered and its greatness being its balance is what everyone talks about everyday

Which part of your thinking did you feel was so serious that it required a new thread

Seriously now:wink:

 

[WingZ]

Your "serious thinking", as you call it, is pretty mundane stuff. These facts about the NSX being relatively underpowered and its greatness being its balance is what everyone talks about everyday

Which part of your thinking did you feel was so serious that it required a new thread

Seriously now:wink:

Hey Liftcontrol

What I was curious about was whether anyone wondered anything beyond just hp and weight

 

[SoCalDude]

Hey Liftcontrol

What I was curious about was whether anyone wondered anything beyond just hp and weight

I don't because I assume that Honda can get the balance and everything else in the next car correct. HP and weight can be tougher and more costly to do.

 

[WingZ]

I don't because I assume that Honda can get the balance and everything else in the next car correct. HP and weight can be tougher and more costly to do.

Weight is tough ,but not a problem. They had possibly one of if not the greatest drivers in history helping to tweak the driving characteristics of the car anyone know who might be helping them now? Speculation will do just fine:biggrin:

 

[clr1024]

Weight is tough ,but not a problem. They had possibly one of if not the greatest drivers in history helping to tweak the driving characteristics of the car anyone know who might be helping them now? Speculation will do just fine:biggrin:

Your having a serious discussion based on speculation...

 

[SoCalDude]

Weight is tough, but not a problem. They had possibly one of if not the greatest drivers in history helping to tweak the driving characteristics of the car anyone know who might be helping them now? Speculation will do just fine:biggrin:

Weight might be tougher than we think. The Ford GT has a carbon fiber body, aluminum engine yet weighs 3,500 lbs!

I guess having Jensen Button test the car wouldn't be a huge selling point.

 

[NSXGMS]

The Ford GT has a carbon fiber body

The Ford GT is all-aluminum just like our favorite car. As a matter of fact I believe the Ford engineers tore down several NSXs to gain info about how they were constructed.

From Edmunds:

Body Styles, Trim Levels and Options:


The Ford GT is a midengine, two-seat sports car available in a single trim. The chassis is constructed of aluminum and rides on a double-wishbone suspension, front and rear. The exterior body panels are constructed of super-plastic-formed aluminum, and the vehicle rolls on 18-inch front and 19-inch rear wheels. Standard equipment includes HID headlights, air conditioning, keyless entry, power windows and an AM/FM/CD audio system. Options are limited, but include an upgraded McIntosh audio system with a four-channel amplifier and single-slot CD player. Other options, such as BBS forged aluminum wheels, red- or gray-painted brake calipers, and a full-length racing stripe (or side stripe delete option) allow buyers a bit of personalization when ordering their GT.

 

[NSXGMS]

The NSX had 270HP originally. That was 90% of the F348 and I don't think anyone needs to be reminded of Ferrari's tendency to overstate their HP numbers.

Power isn't everything but it almost is. As long as the NSX puts out a true 90% of the F430 HP figure (430-440HP) or equivalent F car they'll be fine.

I'm sure they can keep the car at 2,900 lbs and get it to handle well.

Then they just need to make it look good and price it around 110K. We know it will be reliable.

I hope the NSX never wins in a straight line. I hope Honda never stoops to that Vette/Camaro attitude. But nothing would make me happier than the next NSX beating the F430 or equivalent around the track with less HP.

 

[WingZ]

Your having a serious discussion based on speculation...

No! Just speculation on what race car driver might be helping them:biggrin:

 

[SoCalDude]

The Ford GT is all-aluminum just like our favorite car. As a matter of fact I believe the Ford engineers tore down several NSXs to gain info about how they were constructed.

From Edmunds:

Body Styles, Trim Levels and Options:


The Ford GT is a midengine, two-seat sports car available in a single trim. The chassis is constructed of aluminum and rides on a double-wishbone suspension, front and rear. The exterior body panels are constructed of super-plastic-formed aluminum, and the vehicle rolls on 18-inch front and 19-inch rear wheels. Standard equipment includes HID headlights, air conditioning, keyless entry, power windows and an AM/FM/CD audio system. Options are limited, but include an upgraded McIntosh audio system with a four-channel amplifier and single-slot CD player. Other options, such as BBS forged aluminum wheels, red- or gray-painted brake calipers, and a full-length racing stripe (or side stripe delete option) allow buyers a bit of personalization when ordering their GT.

So how does the GT get up to 3,500 lbs? It's not that much bigger.

 

[WingZ]

The NSX had 270HP originally. That was 90% of the F348 and I don't think anyone needs to be reminded of Ferrari's tendency to overstate their HP numbers.

Power isn't everything but it almost is. As long as the NSX puts out a true 90% of the F430 HP figure (430-440HP) or equivalent F car they'll be fine.

I'm sure they can keep the car at 2,900 lbs and get it to handle well.

Then they just need to make it look good and price it around 110K. We know it will be reliable.

I hope the NSX never wins in a straight line. I hope Honda never stoops to that Vette/Camaro attitude. But nothing would make me happier than the next NSX beating the F430 or equivalent around the track with less HP.

NSXGMS you are true to the faith!

In response to 90% of the F430 statement. So far Honda has been telling us 500hp+ V10. Do you think their just looking down the road to what the F430 replacement might put out?

SoCaldude

No I don't think Jenson buttons is a name seller just yet:biggrin:

 

[clr1024]

So how does the GT get up to 3,500 lbs? It not that much bigger.

The Ford GT is a big car when compared to the NSX. Have you seen them side by side?

 

[SoCalDude]

The Ford GT is a big car when compared to the NSX. Have you seen them side by side?

No but I'd like too. Is it really that much bigger?

Any one got a side by side pick of the two?

 

[White98LS]

I'm sure they can keep the car at 2,900 lbs and get it to handle well.

How can you be so sure? The F430 coupe weighs 3,400lbs. Caymans and M Coupes weigh 3100-3200lbs. You really think a ~500hp NSX (especially if it has SH-AWD) is going to weigh just barely more than an S2000 or Civic Si? Even mega-buck, carbon-fiber-everything cars like the Carrera GT and Enzo weigh well over 3,000lbs.

 

[NSXGMS]

Ford GT Specs:

Wheel Base (in): 106.7
Overall Length (in): 182.8
Overall Height at curb (in): 44.3
Overall Width (in): 76.9
Front Track (in): 63
Rear Track (in): 63.7
Weight Distribution (ft/rear): 43/57
Overall Shadow (sq ft): 96.8
Approach Angle (deg): 9.2
Departure Angle (deg): 14.0


NSX specs:

See below.

The Ford is considerably bigger.

 

[White98LS]

So how does the GT get up to 3,500 lbs? It's not that much bigger.

They use a 5.4L truck engine, supercharged no less, for one thing. Each rear wheel and tire combo has to weigh at least 50lbs. Anyway, that's not even much more than the F430, which has a far smaller engine.

 

[NetViper]

Based off the latest trend in cars, I seriously doubt the next NSX will be 2900lbs unless it is the size of the Elise.

However, if the Z06 can weigh 3100lbs and have 505HP, then surely Honda can get relatively close to those stats.

I would really like more TQ too.

If honda basically copied the gallardo in every way and it weighed 3000 lbs, I would be thrilled.

 

[NSXGMS]

How can you be so sure? The F430 coupe weighs 3,400lbs. Caymans and M Coupes weigh 3100-3200lbs. You really think a ~500hp NSX (especially if it has SH-AWD) is going to weigh just barely more than an S2000 or Civic Si? Even mega-buck, carbon-fiber-everything cars like the Carrera GT and Enzo weigh well over 3,000lbs.

I think Honda wouldn't even build the car if they didn't want to attempt something groundbreaking using new technology.

If they go over 3000 lbs then they'll need a bit more HP. It's not up to me to figure out how to keep the weight down. I believe Honda can do it.

In 1990 Honda thought way outside the box and, don't forget, did something no one else had ever done by using aluminum.

That's the problem with groundbreaking technology--it's very hard to predict. :tongue:

Minimizing weight might not be Honda's chief concern. But keeping the car under 3000 lbs is to me a worthwhile effort and attainable and could be one of the factors that make it so potentially great.

 

[NSXGMS]

Based off the latest trend in cars, I seriously doubt the next NSX will be 2900lbs unless it is the size of the Elise.

However, if the Z06 can weigh 3100lbs and have 505HP, then surely Honda can get relatively close to those stats.

I would really like more TQ too.

If honda basically copied the gallardo in every way and it weighed 3000 lbs, I would be thrilled.

I basically agree with that. I don't think "2,900 lbs" is a magic number. I just think that it is a goal that Honda should work towards. 3,000 on the nose would be phenomenal :biggrin:

 

[TC]

How can you be so sure? The F430 coupe weighs 3,400lbs.

F430 coupe is 3197 lbs curb weight (fully equipped with full tank of gas and all fluids, no cargo or passengers) according to the Ferrari website. But I agree that there is no way for the new NSX to weigh 2900 lbs - considering the likely requisite safety gear (side airbags, etc.), likely creature comforts, larger wheels and tires, etc. Not to mention possible SH-AWD.

There is this prevailing myth that the NSX is some fly-weight car. The past few generations of P911's (993, 996, 997) actually weighed less than an NSX coupe, as did the F355. C5 and C6 Vettes and the F360 and F430 are very close - within 50lbs or so.

 

[WingZ]

Are there currently any V10's that are running under 3000lbs? I could see Honda doing it if they used a V8 which is why I wonder what direction they're going in.

 

[Ski_Banker]

No! Just speculation on what race car driver might be helping them:biggrin:

Ok, call me blasphemous -- what difference does it make?? I love F1, but to say that Senna *engineered* the NSX is crazy. Honda's miracle workers built prototypes that they and Senna drove and REFINED, but I don't give all that much credit to Senna for the NSX's performance. His inputs were probably along the lines of "a little more toe in would really improve agility" (which any other world class driver could also recognize and communicate to engineers). Many of those little tweaks have been "untweaked" and further refined upon, in his absence, in 95+ models.

Senna's association with the NSX was in large part branding, like anything else. He was a very busy, very highly paid racecar driver - not someone Honda employed (directly) to build cars. If that's what they wanted, they could far more cheaply pay for the time of a retired F1 driver.

I'd like to hear from, more knowledgeable owners, that I'm wrong ie, Senna was directly responsible for ___ major prototype change, but I doubt it.

No offense to his dreamy eyed fans meant.

 

[TC]

What's the obsession with 3,000 lbs? A lite-weight NSX - minimal sound insulation, minimal creature comforts, no space for luggage, etc. - will have a very limited audience. HP being equal, 90% of buyers will take a 3300 lb car with navigation, multi-speaker DVD audio, multi-way power seats, dual-zone climate control, etc, etc. versus a 3,000 stripper. That's what cars like the NSX-R, GT3, Stradale and Z06 are for. Balanced, to me, means that the NSX is good on the track, on the highway, around time, for commuting, for weekend jaunts, carries some cargo, etc.

In terms of priorities, Honda needs to up the HP by 50% over the current car, versus reducing weight by 5%.

 

[WingZ]

Ok, call me blasphemous -- what difference does it make?? I love F1, but to say that Senna *engineered* the NSX is crazy. Honda's miracle workers built prototypes that they and Senna drove and REFINED, but I don't give all that much credit to Senna for the NSX's performance. His inputs were probably along the lines of "a little more toe in would really improve agility" (which any other world class driver could also recognize and communicate to engineers). Many of those little tweaks have been "untweaked" and further refined upon, in his absence, in 95+ models.

Senna's association with the NSX was in large part branding, like anything else. He was a very busy, very highly paid racecar driver - not someone Honda employed (directly) to build cars. If that's what they wanted, they could far more cheaply pay for the time of a retired F1 driver.

I'd like to hear from, more knowledgeable owners, that I'm wrong ie, Senna was directly responsible for ___ major prototype change, but I doubt it.

No offense to his dreamy eyed fans meant.

What your saying makes sense from the S2000 standpoint i.e great Honda sportscar w/o Senna input.