s2k vs. NSX

This forum is far more mature than any of the S2000 forums. People focus on the discussion and share their opinions, instead of leaving meaningless smart ass remarks. I love it.
 
jas303 said:
This forum is far more mature than any of the S2000 forums. People focus on the discussion and share their opinions, instead of leaving meaningless smart ass remarks. I love it.
Click to expand...

You are correct, mostly. I've been posting on S2ki.com for coming up on seven years. The Vintage Owners forum is where I make most of my posts. It was created by and for the over 40 years-old crowd. Anyone can post there but most of the younger crowd doesn't want to. It's a lot more mature and civil than the other parts of S2ki. :smile:

http://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showforum=117
 
Kyras said:
You are correct, mostly. I've been posting on S2ki.com for coming up on seven years. The Vintage Owners forum is where I make most of my posts. It was created by and for the over 40 years-old crowd. Anyone can post there but most of the younger crowd doesn't want to. It's a lot more mature and civil than the other parts of S2ki. :smile:

http://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showforum=117
Click to expand...

True.I was happy to see the "vintage" subforum created on s2k int.I was getting tired of the blather spouted all over that site.I was there at the beginning having bought my ap1 in oct 99.Prime being what it is I have given up surfing s2k as I sold the car quite some time ago.
 
GOLDNSX said it best and thats all i have to say

icon1.gif
Re: s2k vs. NSX
<HR style="COLOR: #d1d1e1; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #d1d1e1" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->NSX over S2000
- much more torque (more than 50%) all over the revrange
- better looking
- much better quality (no engine failures, driveshafts, roof and so on)
- modding really has an effect altough it's much more expensive
- more exotic
- more educated people in the family or better manners

S2000 over NSX
- more fun with suspension/steering/sharper differential
- topless
- modding near to useless unless you go FI but then the engine will blow even sooner than under normal circumstances
- tiring noise level on faster lanes
- S2000 are cheap and so are the drivers sometimes. If the NSX is the cheap man's Ferrari then the S2000 is the cheap man's NSX. :tongue:

I don't miss my S2000 not a second. :smile:
 
jas303 said:
I guess it's time to open the discussion with those who believe "NSX is a much faster car than S2000."

The best advise I can give you is to bring them out to a track. Track'em, run'em, and most importantly, time'em. If you can be more specific about your "experiences" with the two cars, perhaps I can better help you understand.

I can laid down the basic here, and hopefully Billy will help me out a little. First, it immediately tells me a guy knows very little about racing when he says to me: "X is faster than Y because X has higher top speed, faster acceleration, or more power under a dyno." Personally, I'd trade better breaks and tires with those. Power is always over-rated by the novice. For example, a M3 usually pulls away a 4 cars distance against my S2000 on PIR when we start. Sure, the acceleration of a E36 M3 is a huge con for my AP1 S2000, but you know what, the M3 will find me glued to his tail as soon as he's half way in the first right turn. The advantage he gained from the acceleration is non-existence after the first turn. The M3 will keep trying to pull away at every straight, but I'll regain the distance each corner, and every corner. I don't want to dive in too deep, but cars like NSX and S2000 are more fun for me because they require more skills to be fast. In my S2000, people with more expensive cars can easily pass me when I made a mistake. I am in the wrong gear; I lose time. I screw up the heel-n-toe; I lose time. My RPM is low when I exit a turn; I lose time. But boy, I love to see those Porsche owners' faces when they lose to my S2000. That's why I kept doing it. I have to use every inch of the road to maintain my speed, and to be in the right gear. Unlike a GTR or Porsche 911, some can(and prefer because it's easier) to enter the corner slow, and find the open exit line early to fully take advantage of those horses under their front hood. Then to keep up with them in our cars we need to out-smart them. So the very first thing for people to understand is that, much faster on a straight road does NOT mean any faster on a race track. If all we track people care about is how fast we're on a open straight lane, something like Camaro HPE650 or Shelby GT500 would be very nice bang for the bucks.

Racing on a race track is not about stop and go. It's more about maintaining speed and be at the right speed. It's raceway by raceway, but the average speed of a NSX driven by a pro-driver is about 96 m/h on Nurburgring. The average speed of a S2000 is within 1 m/h with the NSX. Unless it's a NASCAR sprint, the top speed of NSX has zero advantage against a S2000, and S2000 will always be as fast as a NSX, as long as it's a racetrack that takes skills, and not some straight open road. BTW, I never get those people who brag about NSX is faster than a S2000 on a straight road. First, it takes very little skills, and second, isn't it much easier to buy a Corvette, stripe everything out, and put a NOS tank in it? Why put NSX to a drag race, what it's worst at, when you can put it on a racetrack, where it can humble many other cars that are more expensive?

Another experience that I live to share is NSX does "feel" faster than a S2000. I drove them both on PIR. I thought I was at least a few seconds faster when I tried the NSX, but I was actually slower. I tried it quiet a few times, and I even recorded it. The reason people "feel" they're faster in a NSX is because the shorter nose. The driver is much closer to the road in front of him, and mistakenly think they're at faster speed. I had to review my race cam a few times to figure that out. The moral of the story is that people's feeling can lie, but lap times don't.

I hope these help to understand why NSX isn't faster than a S2000 on race tracks. Please do ask question so we can clarify.
Click to expand...


I found this and Billy's comment contradicting of what I know... which most of my experiences are from PR, members who attended nsxpo08 track event would probably understood.

stock 91-93, with the 205/225 tires does have a very simular lap time with the S2k.

however,
I have not seen any light tuned S2k posting quicker time than my car. (when compared with identical hardware/mods.) my car still have the stock engine with I/h/E. now PR does have a long straightaway and fairly high speed turn corners before and after the straightaway. That, now we are going back to the gear ratio, doesn't hurt my car but obviously S2k couldn't take advantage of nsx.

Pacific Raceway is quite bumpy too, so I found it funny that you think nsx feels faster at PIR. Whenever I drive S2k, I found the car way too nervous and unsettling at highspeed; nsx just stick to the ground.. and it will be even better if the track is wet. NSX is a lot more relaxing than the S2k.
 
NSXDreamer2 said:
I found this and Billy's comment contradicting of what I know... which most of my experiences are from PR, members who attended nsxpo08 track event would probably understood.

stock 91-93, with the 205/225 tires does have a very simular lap time with the S2k.

however,
I have not seen any light tuned S2k posting quicker time than my car. (when compared with identical hardware/mods.) my car still have the stock engine with I/h/E. now PR does have a long straightaway and fairly high speed turn corners before and after the straightaway. That, now we are going back to the gear ratio, doesn't hurt my car but obviously S2k couldn't take advantage of nsx.
Click to expand...

I cannot speak for Billy, but let's review what I said:

"NSX is faster than S2000, stock to stock, but not by much". That was my statement. On top of that, I agreed to Billy about "on a slower track with tighter corners, my guess is that S2000 can be faster than a NSX."

Now you mentioned that a 91-93 NA1 NSX does have very similar lap time with the S2000. So my question is this: "How much faster is your NA2 over NA1?" First, you're just confirming my first statement by saying NA1 has similar lap times with the S2000 because NA2 will naturally be a little faster, and my statement of "NSX is faster than S2000, stock to stock, but not by much" stands, yeah?

Second, you obviously have lap times of the fastest S2000 and NSXs posted for PR. Would you mind to share those? I'd be surprised if your NA2 is a lot faster than a NA1. If the lap time of NA2 and NA1 are quiet close, and a S2000 is as fast as a NA1, then how wrong can Billy be?

I found it funny that you think nsx feels faster at PIR
Click to expand...

I explained my experience about I felt faster in the NSX because of the "shorter nose". The closer your eyes are to the road, the faster you feel. That's simple physics, and I don't understand why is it funny.

I found the car way too nervous and unsettling at highspeed
Click to expand...

It gets worse. My AP1 also oversteers(bone stock with street tires). I spun out a few times because I was pressured.
 
jas303 said:
I explained my experience about I felt faster in the NSX because of the "shorter nose". The closer your eyes are to the road, the faster you feel. That's simple physics, and I don't understand why is it funny.
Click to expand...


Which NSX do you have, NA1 or NA2? What mods if any do you have and do you use different tires or brakes when you take it to the track?
 
Last edited:
s14_tat said:
I still have electronics as old as my NSX such as my vintage video game systems like the sega genesis. So yeah, beat that =). Honestly speaking a Stock nsx that is not a Type S zero or a Type R is not That impressive today anymore, but neither is a ap1 S2000 hell or even a ap2 S2000. In most car mags the S2000 almost always gets beat by a 350z and in Car and Drivers VIR shoot out, even the CR S2000 gets outrun by a lot of cars for less money. Where as the NSX is very fast in a straightline for having only 290hp, the S2000 is right about where it should be in straight line power having 240hp.
Click to expand...

The CR problem in this test and C&D said it explicitly were "the stock pads that faded and never came back" How fast does anyone lap if they can't stop well:biggrin:

I drove the big track but not the full course like how C&D does for their lightning lap and trust me you need your brakes ..LOL Mine didn't fade but I always track with carbotechs and I use superblue. CR was a blast to drive there.

I've mixed feelings about which is more fun. I have to say though that the CR roof off is my first choice at the moment , but that was before STMPO NSX braces though:biggrin:
 
Following this thread is stupid Prime please close this thread,,, GOLDNSX said it best and I stand by his comment!!
icon1.gif
Re: s2k vs. NSX
<HR style="COLOR: #d1d1e1; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #d1d1e1" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->NSX over S2000
- much more torque (more than 50%) all over the revrange
- better looking
- much better quality (no engine failures, driveshafts, roof and so on)
- modding really has an effect altough it's much more expensive
- more exotic
- more educated people in the family or better manners

S2000 over NSX
- more fun with suspension/steering/sharper differential
- topless
- modding near to useless unless you go FI but then the engine will blow even sooner than under normal circumstances
- tiring noise level on faster lanes
- S2000 are cheap and so are the drivers sometimes. If the NSX is the cheap man's Ferrari then the S2000 is the cheap man's NSX. :tongue:

I don't miss my S2000 not a second. :smile:
 
Taken from S2Ki.com and TrackHQ.com - here are some times of slightly modified S2000s and an NSX or two with pretty good drivers. Almost all of these cars have not much more than larger tires, brake pads, rotors, suspension, and wings

Buttonwillow Config #13CW

1:59.3 - S2000; 255/255 NT01; 200whp/2850lbs w/driver - Wing, KW V3
2:00.9 - S2000; 255/255 NT01; 200whp - Wing, Exhaust, Tein SRC
2:00.9 - S2000; 255/255 NT01; 200whp - High-mount APR GT200 Wing, Carbotech XP10/XP8, KW V3, J's 60RS, Stock header/cat
2:02.1 - S2000; 225/255 Federal 595RS-R; 200whp/3000lbs - J's Type 1 Wing, ASM lip & canards, KW Clubsport,exhaust, PMU racing999 pads
2:03.0. - '91 NSX; 235/275 R888; 266whp/3025lbs w/driver - Brembo "Lotus" front brakes, PFC 01 pads, CT headers, Taitec exhaust, Penske double adjustable coilover, JAPANESE GEARS
2:05.9 - S2000; 225/255 NT01; 193whp/2950lbs - camber kit, Endless SS Lines, K&N Drop-In Filter, Carbotech XP10, Motul RBF600, Recaro SPG on Taitec Rails, High-Flow Cat.
2:06.4 - S2000; 235/255 Federal 595 RS-R; 200whp/3000lbs - Tein SRC, Endless BBK, 4.44 gears


Willow Springs International Raceway (Big Willow):

1:30.0 - Porsche GT3 (997) 235/305 R888 - modified wing element, Moton Clubsports
 1:33.8 - S2000; 255/255 NT01; 240hp/2880lbs - Voltex Wing, exhaust, racing seat, KW V3, FXMD Spring rates
~1:34.0 - '91 NSX; 235/275 R888; 266whp/3025lbs w/driver - Brembo "Lotus" front brakes, PFC 01 pads, CT headers, Taitec exhaust, Penske double adjustable coilover, JAPANESE GEARS
1:35.3 - S2000; 255/255 Dunlop Starspec; 195whp/3040lbs - GT200 Wing, stock suspension
1:36.1 - '91 NSX; 235/275 R888; 266whp/3025lbs w/driver - Brembo "Lotus" front brakes, PFC 01 pads, CT headers, Taitec exhaust, Penske double adjustable coilover, JAPANESE GEARS
1:38.4 - S2000; BONE STOCK down to the tire


Even an NSX with a aftermarket front brake system, similar suspension/tire mods, no wing, AND the short gears, is still not clearly dominant on track over an S2000 (with light modifications). The S2000 still has a shorter gear ratio than an NSX with short gears, which keeps it in its peaky powerband better on track. Being able to stuff such a large tire under its fender, and the improvement a wing does on that platform makes the S2000 a formidable track car.


Billy
 
Those are some amazingly fast lap times for a lightly modded S2k, those times was only 2 seconds off pace from the runner up of the first US Time attack event. Do the NT01 make that much of a difference in time vs a street R compound that the time attack guys run?
 
FXMDBilly said:
Taken from S2Ki.com and TrackHQ.com - here are some times of slightly modified S2000s and an NSX or two with pretty good drivers. Almost all of these cars have not much more than larger tires, brake pads, rotors, suspension, and wings
...
Even an NSX with a aftermarket front brake system, similar suspension/tire mods, no wing, AND the short gears, is still not clearly dominant on track over an S2000 (with light modifications). The S2000 still has a shorter gear ratio than an NSX with short gears, which keeps it in its peaky powerband better on track. Being able to stuff such a large tire under its fender, and the improvement a wing does on that platform makes the S2000 a formidable track car.


Billy
Click to expand...
Hello, Billy. Your profile says Occupation: Racecar driver/Instructor. It sounds like you really know this subject and aren't just throwing out opinions with nothing to back it up. Correct? Thank you.

~Patricia
 
s14_tat said:
Those are some amazingly fast lap times for a lightly modded S2k, those times was only 2 seconds off pace from the runner up of the first US Time attack event. Do the NT01 make that much of a difference in time vs a street R compound that the time attack guys run?
Click to expand...

I'm curious about that myself. In know, on an autocross course, that something like a shaved NT01 or V710 is worth a half second or so over an R888 or RA1, but although I've driven on both tires on a track, I don't have a good feel for the difference (R888s were on an MR2, NT01s were on a 911 GT2...so hard to really judge).

I doubt the difference is quite as pronounced on a track, but given the tighter nature of the tracks we are talking about, I'm curious what difference that might make...and yeah, a little "devil's advocate". :)
 
Last edited:
Kyras said:
Hello, Billy. Your profile says Occupation: Racecar driver/Instructor. It sounds like you really know this subject and aren't just throwing out opinions with nothing to back it up. Correct? Thank you.

~Patricia
Click to expand...

You didn't know who Billy Johnson was? He is one of the fastest race car drivers in America and has broken numerous track records in America in the Factor X NSX.

Here is a profile on Mr. Johnson

http://www.billyjohnsonracing.com/
 
HondaHeat said:
Which NSX do you have, NA1 or NA2? What mods if any do you have and do you use different tires or brakes when you take it to the track?
Click to expand...

I am a bone stock guy, but the 99 NA2 was with racing clutch, Revolution suspensions, and 17/18 wheels.

WingZ,
Stock brakes will fade. Stock brakes always fade. But it doesn't happen until abused for a while. I am not sure about C&D's test condition, but it usually isn't an issue for me. There is a reason for that. We have several groups on a track day, and each group takes its turn. There can be up to 80 cars on an open track day, so there is plenty of time for the cars to cool down when other groups are on the racetrack. However, there was once I ran with the Audi club, and we had maybe 25 cars there. We didn't have to take any break unless we want to, and then my brake was gone after maybe 20 or 21 laps. I almost pissed my pants, litteraly. I got off the track and they told me I probably have some air in my brake lines from the boiled brake fluid. I am sure those C&D editors drive faster and harder than I can, but I am also pretty sure they put that S2000 CR on the track longer than most people can afford, before the brakes faded.
 
s14_tat said:
Those are some amazingly fast lap times for a lightly modded S2k, those times was only 2 seconds off pace from the runner up of the first US Time attack event. Do the NT01 make that much of a difference in time vs a street R compound that the time attack guys run?
Click to expand...
Runner-up for the first US time attack (Redline or Super Lap Battle)? -and what class?

The Nitto NT01 IS a R-compound tire, just like a R888, RA1, A048, and Pilot Sport Cup. From our testing on the FX500 Turbo NSX, back to back the R888 was ~ 1 second faster than the RA1 due to outright grip increase. The R888 is a much rounder tire (like the A048) and is harder to drive than the NT01 but when set up properly, it is very close in speed to the NT01. There is no question the NT01 is an easier tire to drive on, especially for beginners. The NT01's squarer profile and tread block design make for a very predictable break-away characteristics and easier to learn on and drive at the limit than the R888.

The majority of those times listed were on R-compound R888 or NT01s. Only the Federal 595, Dunlop Star Spec, and the stock tires on the S2000 were street-classed tires. I'm going to be taking my personal NSX out with KW coilovers (for further testing, Type-R wing (back to back against stock), and street tires to see comparable street tire lap times in the near future.

s14_tat said:
You didn't know who Billy Johnson was? He is one of the fastest race car drivers in America and has broken numerous track records in America in the FX Motorsports Development FX750 Time Attack NSX.

Here is a profile on Mr. Johnson

http://www.billyjohnsonracing.com/
Click to expand...
Fixed it for ya :)

I'll also be at the 24 Hours of Daytona at the end of the month driving a Mustang with Jack Roush Jr. in the Koni (now Continental Tire) Challenge if any of you are going - stop by and say hi.


Billy
 
Last edited:
The event that I was mentioning was the SCC/SS Time attack challenge back in 2004. The rules was very flexible, with the tire limitation ( street legal tires from any country ) since they had a big name japanese tuner car there ( the Signal Auto R34 GTR which won the event by running a 1:54 with Tarzan Yamada driving on his 3rd out of 4th attempt before the turbine shaft on his T04R snapped ) The runner up was Jame Chen's Ferrari F360 driven by Sam Hubinette which ran a 1:57. Also SOS was there in their wide body NSX but it ran a 2:01. There were many unlimited class cars that could not match the near Stock S2K's time that you posted so I was wondering if the tires made the difference. They were running Hoosier's ( not sure what type ) at the time. But yeah the 1:59 that S2K posted was faster than 33 out of the 39 cars there including a super charged S2K with Ohlins supension, a 800+hp Supra, Kip Olson's supercharged NSX, Spoon sports euro R accord and big name EVO's like from Buscher Racing or XS engineering driven by Pro Drivers.

They also were racing at the Buttonwillow configuration #13 clockwise.
 
Sean,
I would definately go for the NSX. I went through this similar mindset when I was looking for a "toy" car.
I am not a big "convertible" guy and I don't like all the wind noise and the squeeks and rattles. The S2000 is fun to drive but I wanted something that was great for road trips too. The NSX is a great road trip car and it has a way better stock sound system in it than the S2000.
 
s14_tat said:
The event that I was mentioning was the SCC/SS Time attack challenge back in 2004. The rules was very flexible, with the tire limitation ( street legal tires from any country ) since they had a big name japanese tuner car there ( the Signal Auto R34 GTR which won the event by running a 1:54 with Tarzan Yamada driving on his 3rd out of 4th attempt before the turbine shaft on his T04R snapped ) The runner up was Jame Chen's Ferrari F360 driven by Sam Hubinette which ran a 1:57. Also SOS was there in their wide body NSX but it ran a 2:01. There were many unlimited class cars that could not match the near Stock S2K's time that you posted so I was wondering if the tires made the difference. They were running Hoosier's ( not sure what type ) at the time. But yeah the 1:59 that S2K posted was faster than 33 out of the 39 cars there including a super charged S2K with Ohlins supension, a 800+hp Supra, Kip Olson's supercharged NSX, Spoon sports euro R accord and big name EVO's like from Buscher Racing or XS engineering driven by Pro Drivers.

They also were racing at the Buttonwillow configuration #13 clockwise.
Click to expand...
Man it's crazy to think that was about 6 years ago. I remember competing in the 2005 Super Street time attack and then did a 1:57 in a 1972 Datsun 510 powered by a 13B rotary in 2006. Rob Morrison did a 1:58 that year in his NSX.

To answer your question, I don't think tires made much more than a second or two difference (NT01/R888 over RA1 and so on). Cars got faster, suspension geometry/alignment became better, drivers got better. In 2006, GMG won in their SWC-prepped Porsche with a 1:49. At this time "Tuner Cars" were fairly unrefined, relatively poor handling cars with a lot of power. Over the years the sport matured and real racing components/functional parts and suspension tuning became more important than outright power. Definitely in the past two years the game has stepped up every year for faster and faster times. This year's R-compound NT01/R888 "Limited AWD" was faster than GMG's "Unlimited" Porsche from 2006. That's how life is in a sport with very limited rules. It's awesome!
 
itsabouthorsepwr said:
Sean,
I would definately go for the NSX. I went through this similar mindset when I was looking for a "toy" car.
I am not a big "convertible" guy and I don't like all the wind noise and the squeeks and rattles. The S2000 is fun to drive but I wanted something that was great for road trips too. The NSX is a great road trip car and it has a way better stock sound system in it than the S2000.
Click to expand...

About that sound system - man I don't know what they did with the S2000 but my 2007 Civic SI sedan had a kick ass sound system and I sure wish I had that in my NSX! Damn I will have to say as far as sound systems go - the NSX is surely lacking. I mean it works well but the sound is surely not up to today's standards of say the RL or the TSX or any new Acura sedan or SUV. My wifes 07 RL has a great sound system without all those crazy speaker amps. Anyway - I sure wish there was a way to get better sound without having to change the stock appearance of the head unit. Anyone have any good ideas on that? Surely must be a thread about it.

I'll give you another idea - if you want a convertible to go along with your NSX coupe - get the Miata. It is surely fun and cheaper and has good power these days and has a good top too. My 2 cents. I know we are comparing the NSX to the S2000 - why I'm not sure but there you have it.

There is a video on a site right now here showing a new at that time race track in Japan. They drive several cars - one is the S2000 and they also drive the WRX sti, 997 S Porsche and another final race of 4 NSXs or is it 5 and the GTR as a photo car, it actually ended up winning the 5 lap race. But the race drivers all talked about the S2000 and if you want to hear a professionals point of view - it has subtitles for your enjoyment and I would say that their comments are perhaps a little more detailed than most of this chatter. More of my 2 cents. :tongue::wink: Adios
 
The year 2000 S2000 had a really bad stereo but it was improved on. My '05 isn't too bad, and was an improvement over my '01. They put little speakers in the roll bar on the last years and that helped, too.
 
Kyras said:
The year 2000 S2000 had a really bad stereo but it was improved on. My '05 isn't too bad, and was an improvement over my '01. They put little speakers in the roll bar on the last years and that helped, too.
Click to expand...

I've had 02, 04 , 06 and currently have an 08 CR. Stereo in the CR is much improved over the old 02 and seems better than the 06 but that maybe because the hard top is quieter than the regular vert.

For those of you that can find one an 09 or 08 GPW CR would be great to track and nice for your Honda collection.
 

Similar threads

ramos8531
New member introduction
Replies
8
Views
627
The Kid
The Kid
U
WTB: 2002-2005 NSX
Replies
6
Views
591
UsedtoS2K
U
1
NSX vs NSX-R underbody pics
Replies
8
Views
315
TANTO
TANTO
the_body
Finally found my unicorn
Replies
7
Views
293
docnsx
D
Ron1999
Anyone else here is a fan of the 993? (P-car)
Replies
4
Views
208
jcdeng
jcdeng
Back
Top