Rising from the ashes - Valhalla
- Thread starter Valhalla
- Start date
That is looking good man! I recently did the same with Aluminite panel, but mines goes all the way to the bulk head. You have a vented hood any reason you didn't want to extended it all the way back?
It does go all the way back to the cabin but in two (2) Pieces. The splitter will get hurt if I go off track or hit something. But in separating the full under full battery tray, the damage will be limited to the splitter only, and I already have the template and brackets. Wearable item like tires and brake pads.
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So the latest project? Last year on an organized drive here in Arizona, I noticed very low fuel pressure towards the end of the drive. It was a very hot day. I carefully drove home and with the info I had at hand determined it was a weak and failing fuel pump. I replaced it this spring and all seemed well. I had the tune redone by UMS here in Phoenix and wanted more safety incorporated so I had sensors added to the oil pressure and fuel pressure for the AEM EMS to monitor and limit rpms in case a safety default limit was reached. Also had limits set of O2 and coolant temp too. Glad I did. I didn't have another 1/8 NPT T fitting to sit on top of the fuel filter so the fuel pressure was only read by the EMS sensor and not my gauge in the cabin.
Couple of months ago I was at a track outing at Inde Motorsports Park. During the last session, and a pretty warm day, the car would not rev past 4k. Didn't matter what gear, it just would not go above 4,000. And the whole way home the same. So I cruised home for 2 1/2 hours. The next day the car was back to normal. What is this? I inquired to Tony at UMS and he explained the triggers he had tuned into my system and stated "fuel issue". The other triggers he had inserted were for different rpms so the 4k limit steered him right away to fuel. I was like how could this be? I had just installed a Walbro 455 so it sure can't be the pump. So I ordered up that T-fitting for the fuel filter and went on a drive yesterday. It was real warm in the afternoon (112F) and sure enough, the car would not rev north of 4k again. I now have the fuel pressure gauge in the car working and instead of 44 psi at idle, it was reading around 28psi. Bingo.
After talking with Ravi at We Don't Lift and Chris Wilson at SOS, it was determined that the new fuel pump is drawing way too much amperage for the tiny, and 30 year old, OEM fuel power wiring to handle in the heat. And due to the resistance, the pump is not getting enough juice to let it power up correctly. So I ordered up the SOS Fuel Pump Power and Accessory Kit (part # enpp-2301) and will replace the existing wiring. Chris got it to me real quick which I really appreciated.
I'll try to document the install. The kit itself is really well done and the SOS instructions are perfect, with pictures and diagrams. The hardest part will be dropping the fuel cell, again. I'll try and install it next weekend. Looking forward to this fix. Getting closer all the time.
Couple of months ago I was at a track outing at Inde Motorsports Park. During the last session, and a pretty warm day, the car would not rev past 4k. Didn't matter what gear, it just would not go above 4,000. And the whole way home the same. So I cruised home for 2 1/2 hours. The next day the car was back to normal. What is this? I inquired to Tony at UMS and he explained the triggers he had tuned into my system and stated "fuel issue". The other triggers he had inserted were for different rpms so the 4k limit steered him right away to fuel. I was like how could this be? I had just installed a Walbro 455 so it sure can't be the pump. So I ordered up that T-fitting for the fuel filter and went on a drive yesterday. It was real warm in the afternoon (112F) and sure enough, the car would not rev north of 4k again. I now have the fuel pressure gauge in the car working and instead of 44 psi at idle, it was reading around 28psi. Bingo.
After talking with Ravi at We Don't Lift and Chris Wilson at SOS, it was determined that the new fuel pump is drawing way too much amperage for the tiny, and 30 year old, OEM fuel power wiring to handle in the heat. And due to the resistance, the pump is not getting enough juice to let it power up correctly. So I ordered up the SOS Fuel Pump Power and Accessory Kit (part # enpp-2301) and will replace the existing wiring. Chris got it to me real quick which I really appreciated.
I'll try to document the install. The kit itself is really well done and the SOS instructions are perfect, with pictures and diagrams. The hardest part will be dropping the fuel cell, again. I'll try and install it next weekend. Looking forward to this fix. Getting closer all the time.
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Well I can cross this project off my list now. Pretty straight forward as the instruction provided by SOS are the best I have come across for an aftermarket supplier. Procedure was pretty straightforward;
1) disconnect battery
2) disconnect the 3 fuel lines from driver side and the main fuel supply and return from the passenger side
3) behind the driver seat, remove the trim cover and fuel access port and disconnect the clip for fuel sender and gas gauge
4) drop the fuel tank. You only need to move it down about 12" so you have access to undo the fuel pump power lead from the top of the tank on the passenger side.
That is about it. The instructions in the upgraded power kit lead you the rest of the way in detail and with pictures. Everything is included in the kit and extra pieces too. If I had wanted to run my twin UEGO O2 sensors through this SOS supplied fuse block, I could have done that too as there is access to three more circuits. Very nice.
So what did I find as I went through the replacement of the existing power wiring? As surmised, someone had been in there before. They added a 30 amp block fuse to the rear fuse block and ran 12 gauge wire to a relay they also added. So far, so good. But from there they connected to the OEM 18 gauge wires to the fuel pump and did it with male/female plug in connectors! There was no way the pump was going to supply the fuel pressure needed with the restrictive current. After all connections were made I fired up the system. The relay clicked, pressure came up and the fuel pump turned off. Just like it was supposed to. Turned the key again to start and the fuel pressure rose to 49 lbs. The pump was now free to breath. I need to adjust the ARFP regulator down to 44 lbs as that was what the car was tuned for. On the way home the fuel pressure rose and fell to match the boost applied. The new wiring had done the trick and for a moment, all was right with the world. Not too hard of a job and the instructions provided were bang on. But I am glad I won't have to do this project again.
1) disconnect battery
2) disconnect the 3 fuel lines from driver side and the main fuel supply and return from the passenger side
3) behind the driver seat, remove the trim cover and fuel access port and disconnect the clip for fuel sender and gas gauge
4) drop the fuel tank. You only need to move it down about 12" so you have access to undo the fuel pump power lead from the top of the tank on the passenger side.
That is about it. The instructions in the upgraded power kit lead you the rest of the way in detail and with pictures. Everything is included in the kit and extra pieces too. If I had wanted to run my twin UEGO O2 sensors through this SOS supplied fuse block, I could have done that too as there is access to three more circuits. Very nice.
So what did I find as I went through the replacement of the existing power wiring? As surmised, someone had been in there before. They added a 30 amp block fuse to the rear fuse block and ran 12 gauge wire to a relay they also added. So far, so good. But from there they connected to the OEM 18 gauge wires to the fuel pump and did it with male/female plug in connectors! There was no way the pump was going to supply the fuel pressure needed with the restrictive current. After all connections were made I fired up the system. The relay clicked, pressure came up and the fuel pump turned off. Just like it was supposed to. Turned the key again to start and the fuel pressure rose to 49 lbs. The pump was now free to breath. I need to adjust the ARFP regulator down to 44 lbs as that was what the car was tuned for. On the way home the fuel pressure rose and fell to match the boost applied. The new wiring had done the trick and for a moment, all was right with the world. Not too hard of a job and the instructions provided were bang on. But I am glad I won't have to do this project again.
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- 15 May 2004
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Yes, it's well known that nearly any aftermarket fuel pump is drawing x times of current the OEM wire can't cope with. I even observed that with a Walbro 255 LPH, not to speak of the Denso Supra fuel pump which draws the highest current of them all. I even went with AWG 11 as it's more common over here. The high current killed the relay of the SoS kit after some years. So, it's always a good idea to have a spare one in the trunk.
wow there are a fair amount of boosted cars with aftermarket FP's....wonder how many changed the wiring correctly
That is a pretty fair question to ask. My symptoms were exacerbated by the high heat we see in the desert Southwest. At reasonable temperatures you might get away with stock wiring, but for how long? And then, like me, your first guess is "oh, my fuel pump is getting weak, time to replace it". Only to go thru the exercise of pulling the tank, replacing the pump and not touching the power supply. Granted, pulling the fuel tank the second time was much easier, but not a fun job.
It's been a while since I posted so I thought I'd bring you all up to speed. With all the great "builds" being documented, I've been intimidated to updating mine! But the time has come to rip the motor out and update the internals. Had debated whether to do this myself or pay a professional. In the end, I got a great deal and a warranty on the work. That sold me. So early this week I dropped the car off with Science of Speed and they are going to make her better than ever. All new internals with lower compression forged pistons, new bearings, shims and gaskets. Add some more sensors, oil cooler, Type-R diff upgrade and tune inclusive of E98. Final boost to be determined during tuning. Shooting for ~450 rwhp on pump 91 and we'll stick ~ 500 on the E85 because I'm staying with stock sleeves in the block. As I type this, they are opening up the motor for inspection, cleaning and prep to ship out to the machine shop(s). Everything will be documented and they will send pictures along of what they find. Good, bad or horribly wrong. Hope to get her back for Christmas. Will break her in and then track season. Wish me well. Would love to add pictures but Prime is not allowing me access. Hopefully later.
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Can't wait!
So I stopped in to see Chris and Jeff today and see what they found when they opened up the motor. Their answer, not much. Ringlands were all intact and in good shape. Cylinder walls all looked good too. The only thing they could surmise was valves. So block and heads are all at respective machine shops and the build is on schedule. Did decide to not brake into the transmission to upgrade the diff, too much money for a small return. Maybe some day when I have to replace the clutch I'll upgrade to a real diff, but not now. Also decided to upgrade my gauge cluster from the Zeitronix with it's own set of sensors to GaugeART CAN which will monitor everything the ECU sees and is programable with alerts and warnings for all tracked parameters. You can see it here; https://www.scienceofspeed.com/inde...rs-gauges-accessories/gaugeart-can-gauge.html. Pretty slick setup.
Motor is set for assembly beginning December 21st.
Motor is set for assembly beginning December 21st.
Very nice!
I think the pass on the diff was a small error, but that’s me. At least it gives you time until TiDave hammers out the wavetrac diff for us (I’ll be getting one also)
You’ve got the best cylinder heads in the NSX family. They shouldn’t need much work aside from a cleaning and freshening up...hopefully.
I had to buy new 97 cylinder heads from Honda for my stroker build because stingy bastards like you refuse to get rid of them :biggrin:
Bottom end what’s all gonna be done? Going big? Just sleeves?
The world needs to know!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I think the pass on the diff was a small error, but that’s me. At least it gives you time until TiDave hammers out the wavetrac diff for us (I’ll be getting one also)
You’ve got the best cylinder heads in the NSX family. They shouldn’t need much work aside from a cleaning and freshening up...hopefully.
I had to buy new 97 cylinder heads from Honda for my stroker build because stingy bastards like you refuse to get rid of them :biggrin:
Bottom end what’s all gonna be done? Going big? Just sleeves?
The world needs to know!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The Bottom End
I decided to pass on the Type-R diff because for the amount of money to have it installed, it would not have been that much bang for the buck. Now the difference between the Type-R to say the Wavetrac or OS Giken is quite large. I'll wait on the diff for now. Plus I had some damage to the Exedy twin organic clutch so I need to replace parts there. Had a shudder at takeoff occasionally and this might have been the problem. There were also some instances when i couldn't down shift. The transmission would just want to stay in that gear until the revs came down to low levels. Not all the time. And not necessarily the same gear, pretty random. But enough to make me think it's the clutch. If it continues after the new(er) clutch rebuild, I'll deal with it when I have to pull the diff and upgrade that. Might be a synchro or three but I'll look into when I upgrade the diff.
Cylinder heads are getting cleaned and a three angle competition grind to the seats. They should be in pretty good nick when I get them back. I've got the intake manifold, with intercooler core, and throttle body. I'll be cleaning those up on Wednesday.
As to the bottom end, everything. Staying with the stock sleeves as they are plenty robust for what i'm doing. Boring out .5 over and going with 2618 pistons at 9.5 compression ratio. All new bearings everywhere and bushing out the OEM connecting rods.
Some other little things are a 3 bar MAP sensor although I will be at the absolute low end limit, But better safe than sorry. Boost control for E85 and a new GaugeART CANBUS gauge to replace my existing Zeitronic gauge. Working on the gauge pod hood and it's almost finished. Also adding a sensor for oil temp in the oil pan that I can monitor with the new gauge. I'm getting there.
I decided to pass on the Type-R diff because for the amount of money to have it installed, it would not have been that much bang for the buck. Now the difference between the Type-R to say the Wavetrac or OS Giken is quite large. I'll wait on the diff for now. Plus I had some damage to the Exedy twin organic clutch so I need to replace parts there. Had a shudder at takeoff occasionally and this might have been the problem. There were also some instances when i couldn't down shift. The transmission would just want to stay in that gear until the revs came down to low levels. Not all the time. And not necessarily the same gear, pretty random. But enough to make me think it's the clutch. If it continues after the new(er) clutch rebuild, I'll deal with it when I have to pull the diff and upgrade that. Might be a synchro or three but I'll look into when I upgrade the diff.
Cylinder heads are getting cleaned and a three angle competition grind to the seats. They should be in pretty good nick when I get them back. I've got the intake manifold, with intercooler core, and throttle body. I'll be cleaning those up on Wednesday.
As to the bottom end, everything. Staying with the stock sleeves as they are plenty robust for what i'm doing. Boring out .5 over and going with 2618 pistons at 9.5 compression ratio. All new bearings everywhere and bushing out the OEM connecting rods.
Some other little things are a 3 bar MAP sensor although I will be at the absolute low end limit, But better safe than sorry. Boost control for E85 and a new GaugeART CANBUS gauge to replace my existing Zeitronic gauge. Working on the gauge pod hood and it's almost finished. Also adding a sensor for oil temp in the oil pan that I can monitor with the new gauge. I'm getting there.
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IMHO I think you made the right choice with not going with the "Type R" spec diff. No sense in opening up a tranny just for that honestly. I'm quite excited about TiDave's Wavetrack project. It will use the OEM style ring gear interface so you can use any OEM ring gear you want. This should reduce the cost and increase the choices for final drives. No added "noise" from after market final drive's either and no real "clicking/clanking" from turns. Lots of pros for a street car... In fairness though, I don't think the wavetrack style which appears to be similar to a torsen, is the best option for a track car but i'll take it for my mostly street driven NSX. I'm back on the stock Type R spec diff and sold my OSG diff... I miss having a proper diff in this car SO MUCH. Eagerly awaiting Dave's progress on the R&D.
Thanks Regan, I agree, just not that much difference so I'll wait to see what the Wavetech becomes before I open the tranny.
Ahhhhh, this all makes so much more sense now. Yes, I agree with the decision then to pass on an NSX-R diff (like others and yourself).
The stock engine is fairly stout and should handle everything except the loose nut between the steering wheel and seat. :biggrin:
I believe you already have your block time-serted from the headgasket incident. If not you already know what you need to do there.
The 3 angle job is a nice clean up of the seats but the OEM valves from Honda are so well cut almost every machinist I've spoken with finds it as poor return on the money. Let us know how the parts end up (post pics since most people these days don't like to read)
Always better to be safe than sorry friend. Keep the shiny side up at least until I get back and we can go toe-to-toe
Always better to be safe than sorry friend. Keep the shiny side up at least until I get back and we can go toe-to-toe
I had bad compression and leak down numbers on the front head and the inspection of the cylinder bores and pistons all looked good. No real wear issues and all ringlands were intact. So I'm thinking the valves were the culprit. Will find out when they come back and I get some more answers.
As i get old I do gain a little more perspective. I've always suffered through get-home-itis. So this time I am taking my time, thinking things through a little more and trying to anticipate. I am excited about what I'm going to get back in a couple of weeks.
Cleaned up the throttle body and intake manifold and intercooler core. As I surmised, there was oil and junk in the bottom of the manifold. Did a good scrub and reassembled the IM and took it back to SOS. Also I have a line on some Exedy twin clutch parts that are like new. Will get them next week. I finished the gauge pod and it came out looking great. Back to SOS by the end of the week to drop off bits & pieces and see if any engine parts have arrived. I'm like a little kid waiting for Santa to arrive.
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it's been a while and for very good reasons. The motor reassembly took on a life of it's own. The rods were sent out to be bushed by a shop in SoCal. Unfortunately the Covid-19 hit the shop and the machinist who does that work succumbed to the disease. So my machining was left to his apprentice who then contacted the disease! I can't make this stuff up. Finally the parts were all back and assembly was completed. But now to reschedule the tuner was another 5 weeks added to this project. I finally get to pick the car up this afternoon. The attention to detail is fanatical at Science of Speed. I can't thank Chris, Jeff and the crew enough.
Talking with Chris briefly this morning, here are the high points;
- AEM AFR was set too low and took a little diagnostics as to why the tune was not progressing. Once they upped the pressure, everything fell into place
- Didn't get torque numbers but 450 rwhp on Pump 91 and 525 on E85
- GaugeART is fully functional
- Hit the 450 on set gate pressure and only need a pound or two more for the E85 number of 525
They are changing the oil now and I will pick her up later this afternoon. More impressions and more of the tune coming. So excited.
Talking with Chris briefly this morning, here are the high points;
- AEM AFR was set too low and took a little diagnostics as to why the tune was not progressing. Once they upped the pressure, everything fell into place
- Didn't get torque numbers but 450 rwhp on Pump 91 and 525 on E85
- GaugeART is fully functional
- Hit the 450 on set gate pressure and only need a pound or two more for the E85 number of 525
They are changing the oil now and I will pick her up later this afternoon. More impressions and more of the tune coming. So excited.
Awesome!
Thanks DocJon and Honcho. It was kind of an exciting day. I'll be updating the thread in several future posts on the SOS improvements and other items I've been working on. Just too damn busy with family, work and getting an NSX prepped for Global Time Attack at COTA in a couple of weeks. So even though my car is safely back in my garage, it will have to wait a little longer to get finished up. What else needs to be done?
Driver side window needs to be removed, adjust tracks and new regulator and get that tp operate smoothly (if at all possible)
Install front and rear aluminum bumper beams and tow points
Adjust fail-safe rev limits for coolant and oil temps, oil & fuel pressure, AFR, rev limit in the ECU
Adjust GaugeART settings and warning limits
Corner balance
And then put 800-1000 miles on the new motor to complete the breaking in process.
And in case you ever wondered about how well thought out the Science of Speed engine refresh program is, I'll go into detail soon. Right now I have a blueprinted and fully balance forged motor with 525 rwhp and 385+ ftlb of torque at only 11 lbs of boost. Track days will be very fun again.
Driver side window needs to be removed, adjust tracks and new regulator and get that tp operate smoothly (if at all possible)
Install front and rear aluminum bumper beams and tow points
Adjust fail-safe rev limits for coolant and oil temps, oil & fuel pressure, AFR, rev limit in the ECU
Adjust GaugeART settings and warning limits
Corner balance
And then put 800-1000 miles on the new motor to complete the breaking in process.
And in case you ever wondered about how well thought out the Science of Speed engine refresh program is, I'll go into detail soon. Right now I have a blueprinted and fully balance forged motor with 525 rwhp and 385+ ftlb of torque at only 11 lbs of boost. Track days will be very fun again.
Not my car. The owner of We Don't Lift Racing https://www.wdlracing.com/ has run this for some years with his NSX. That is the one we are prepping for COTA. It's a 91 completely stripped, caged, with areo and we are installing a K20C1 with bigger turbo. The car wet and with driver weighs 2250lbs! Hasn't hit the dyno yet but should produce 450 rwhp and 450 torque.
