RA-1 as daily driver?

Here are all the available R888 sizes.

Here are all the available RA1 sizes.

Too bad you aren't near Las Vegas. I think it would be well worth your time to ride/drive a car with very similar HP numbers with the tires in question. I think you would instantly have your answer instead of having to toil with the decision before hand. I had that luxury and it made the process sooooo much easier for me. BTW, what is your turbo size?
 
Vegas I can see a groove in your outer tire were the undersurface of the fender liner is making contact:confused: Hella rub:eek:
 
Vega$ what are you front tires? 40's or 45's? The only one that will work with tcs is the 45 and i cannot believe it woould fit without huge rubbing issues. There are no 295/35's available in either tire for the rears
 
I'm running 235/40-17 in the front. I do get rubbing on full lock only. My TCS is disabled so I don't now how it affects it, but the balance of the car with the current set up is very good. I mean figure this, this is the same tire set up (actually same tires!! :eek::biggrin:) that the older Factor X race car used. If it was good enough to win a couple of races and good enough for Billy Johnson, then it's 100x more than I'll ever be able to handle. As a daily driver, there are a few trade offs (increased noise, reduced life, need for increased awareness in poor weather conditions, etc.) But being able to utilize all the HP you put into your engine more than makes up for it. At least for me. :smile:
 
NSX R-GT said:
vega:
what size and offset are your wheels?
those tires are FAT!!!!:eek:
Click to expand...

Hehe yeah they are pretty thick. :biggrin: My tire/wheel specs are (the offsets might be wrong, I'm going off of memory):

Wheels:
Volk CE28N powdercoated black
Front: 17x8.5" 40 offset (clears brakes ok)
Rear: 18x10.5" (custom size) 28 offset (requires 5 mm spacer to clear brakes)

Tires:
Toyo RA1
Front: 235/40/17
Rear: 305/35/18
 
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WOODY obsessed with getting the biggest , fattest tires , that won't fit , to fit!!!
I think you should err on the side of caution here , and just get a size which is garanteed to fit , no rubbing / TCS problems.

You worry wether a 285 will provide enough traction (remember, the R888 is worlds above the falken rt-615) you could go 295/30/18

You also worry about "rim protection" the 285/30 is the same sidewall height as many other popular nsx sizes , not to mention taller than the 265/30/19 which is very popular , the 305/35 you are eyeing up is huge , with a giant sidewall , looks funny IMO

Let's see , just by math alone the side wall heights are,
-stock 245/40/17 = 98mm = 3.8in
-265/30/19 = 79.5mm = 3.12in - never bent a rim yet on these
-285/30/18 = 85.5mm = 3.36in - this will give you lots of rim protection
-295/30/18 = 88.5mm = 3.48in - this is so close to stock!

and then -
305/35/18 = 106.75mm! = 4.20in!!!
this tire is huge!!!
do you also hunt pigeons with a bazooka!!!

remember you have to times this # by two to get the tire height so you are looking at a tire TWO INCHES taller than stock!!!

As for your fronts , you won't need a bigger tire than 205/40/17 in a r888 , as I was saying the r888 is already a big tire size for size and I don't think rubbing on a street car is tolerable for most .

I'm just posting my opinion here , but also trying help you avoid a hassle
 
Im late to this thread and its too long to read.

I daily drove RA1s for years on my NSX.

Summary, if you REALLY dont want to swap wheels for the track and never plan on having the car far from safety (home), then it MAY be okay.

Beware, that once the tread is gone (a thousand miles?) the tires are ABSOLUTELY TERRIFYING in the wet. Not a bit slippery. Not a lot slippery, but downright and absolutely horrifically slippery. I would go even further and say that the tire has to make contact with the road before you can call it slippery, and THEY WONT in the wet.

Here is a typical RA1 experience in the wet in my car.

Going 20mph down a hill with 3 way flashers on (LOL -typo - I will leave it be though!). Pouring rain. Car looses traction. Turns sideways. Slides down hill perpendicular to direction of travel. Its like sitting on one of those disks and letting loose down a toboggan hill. I think my car actually sped up as it slid sideways!

So when I say you MAY be able to do it, I mean that when its raining, you MUST either be able to leave the car where it is, or have a very very very short drive home.

I got tired of the terror and got dedicated track wheels. PITA to change, but Im happy I did it.

Woody, Chicagoland is probably not any different climate wise that Toronto (but a bit warmer).
 
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Vega$ NSX said:
I'm running 235/40-17 in the front. I do get rubbing on full lock only. My TCS is disabled so I don't now how it affects it, but the balance of the car with the current set up is very good. I mean figure this, this is the same tire set up (actually same tires!! :eek::biggrin:) that the older Factor X race car used. If it was good enough to win a couple of races and good enough for Billy Johnson, then it's 100x more than I'll ever be able to handle. As a daily driver, there are a few trade offs (increased noise, reduced life, need for increased awareness in poor weather conditions, etc.) But being able to utilize all the HP you put into your engine more than makes up for it. At least for me. :smile:
Click to expand...
Haha :)

Didn't we run 275/35-18's in the rear on those wheels?

Vegas - you gotta remember, most of the people commenting don't have a Turbo NSX with your power levels. Also you don't live in a place where it rains often. It rarely ever rains in vegas (yes I was there a week or two ago when it actually did, but u never called) and the streets are slicker than snot due to the baking sun. Because of where you live and your power levels, you don't see many of the negatives to running the RA1 on the street. For your situation, they are great tires.

Depending on the application/what the car/tires will see, the RA1 can be a perfectly fine daily driven tire. If the ground and ambient temps are not freezing cold, they work fine. But in very cold climates, not generating enough heat in the tire will result in the RA1 having less grip than 'street' tires. In the rain, a full tread-depth RA1 is amazing. Also even with very little tread depth, they work fine in the wet once the tires are up to temp (except in standing water, but full depth RA1s work well w/standing water).

If you're not on a track, or getting heat into the tire, and are just putting around on the street, the RA1 won't generate much grip in the wet.

-their's a lot more to it than "tire X works well in the rain or dosn't" (especially when looking at R-comps). Although with most 'street' tires, their performance isn't as affected under the various types of conditions, which is why they are 'street' tires.

One tire won't be good for every application. You have to look at what YOU are doing with them and then decide. For your VegasNSX, the RA-1s are a great option. For your application, the Yokohama AD07 wouldn't be a bad option either...


0.02
 
If we are looking for a tire for vegas, ABSOLUTELY, RA1s!!!!

It is all about how big the risk is that you get caught far enough from home when is pouring rain.

Not really an issue in the desert.
 
stuntman said:
Haha :)

Didn't we run 275/35-18's in the rear on those wheels?

Vegas - you gotta remember, most of the people commenting don't have a Turbo NSX with your power levels. Also you don't live in a place where it rains often. It rarely ever rains in vegas (yes I was there a week or two ago when it actually did, but u never called) and the streets are slicker than snot due to the baking sun. Because of where you live and your power levels, you don't see many of the negatives to running the RA1 on the street. For your situation, they are great tires.

Depending on the application/what the car/tires will see, the RA1 can be a perfectly fine daily driven tire. If the ground and ambient temps are not freezing cold, they work fine. But in very cold climates, not generating enough heat in the tire will result in the RA1 having less grip than 'street' tires. In the rain, a full tread-depth RA1 is amazing. Also even with very little tread depth, they work fine in the wet once the tires are up to temp (except in standing water, but full depth RA1s work well w/standing water).

If you're not on a track, or getting heat into the tire, and are just putting around on the street, the RA1 won't generate much grip in the wet.

-their's a lot more to it than "tire X works well in the rain or dosn't" (especially when looking at R-comps). Although with most 'street' tires, their performance isn't as affected under the various types of conditions, which is why they are 'street' tires.

One tire won't be good for every application. You have to look at what YOU are doing with them and then decide. For your VegasNSX, the RA-1s are a great option. For your application, the Yokohama AD07 wouldn't be a bad option either...


0.02
Click to expand...

In my previous posts, I did give him a caveat on running RA1's in the rain and bad weather. I did a lengthy description of describing how one had to be aware of the caveats of R-compund tires, much like the caveats of having 550+ whp. BTW, the original poster does have 550+ whp too which is why I recommended the RA1s. He's just not getting any traction with his Falkens and I don't think he's really getting the full worth of his turbo build.

I don't know much about the Yoks, but as I mentioned above, if it's good enough for Billy, then it's good enough for anybody! :biggrin:
 
615's aren't comparable to the RA1. They don't have similar characteristics or grip levels.

AD07 is a great tire, but dosn't have quite the peak grip of the RA1 (but close), and they are expensive, on second thought, stick with RA1 for now.

I was just referring to the comments coming from people who don't have your power levels, and yes I agree with yoru advice for the OP in regards to his power levels and the problems with 615s.

You put a lot of $ into your car, don't ruin it with a cheap set of tires.

But for me, the 615s are less money, last longer, and would be more 'fun' ;) So in that case... I don't know.
 
More great info and experience. It is certainly a valid point that the midwest weather will not accommodate the R compounds like the weather out west. If the truth of the matter is that there are street tires that have better traction than cold R compounds (assuming that on an average 80 degree day on Chicago streets the R's will never get warm enough to show their true potential) then I need to explore this option. I often have rain storms on my commute and do not have the option to leave the car and Biobanker's experience is something to learn from, not figure out for myself.
So, in a daily driving application
R compound benefits:
1. maximum traction in perfect conditions

R compound cons:
1. poor performance in rain ( with less than full tread)
2. poor performance in cold
3. short life
4. picks up gravel
5. noisy


So, if I choose to avoid the R compounds I am back to the myriad of choices and opinions for the best traction street tire available.

One thing remains certain is that I need to maximize the foot print to maximize my traction with a street tire. This means a bigger rear rim and getting something in a 305. I agree that the sidewall at this size may be acceptable at a 30 tire
305/30/18 = 25.2 " diameter with 3.6" sidewall, 305/35/18 = 26.41" diameter with 4.2 " sidewall which makes the 30 a wash with the 3.8" sidewall of the stock tire.

So I need the stickiest street tire that comes in a 305/30/18 !!!!
I will select the front size based on what works with the TCS, probably 205/40/17 as it is the most common.
Sorry to be a flake and go full circle on this but the conditions as they exist here in Chicago seem to push the balance against the R's. I am certain the desert is a different story altogether.

so far

Yokohoma ADVAN Neova AD07 have been mentioned ( but don't have 305)and B-Stone RE01R (no 305), Dunlop Z1 star spec (no 305).
decisions , decisions
 
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Hey no worries, I went through the same difficult decision making when I was picking out my set of tires. In fact I made a pretty complex spreadsheet comparing all sorts of tire sizes, manufacturers and even compare each one to not only the stock tire sizes but the ratio of the front and rear tire ratio. It is quite a consuming process. I was lucky enough that I could try out several tire combinations with Factor X and get expert advice from them and Billy. That REALLY helped a lot.

IMHO, if you go with a 305 wide tire, I really think a 205 wide front tire is not a good choice. The ratio between the front and rear sizes is way off. I mean I'm taking liberties enough with 305 rear and 235 fronts, I think you are really pushing it with 205. I would at least go 225 wide. Not only will it drastically throw off the balance of your car, but you will understeer (plow) like crazy. Back when I had 450 whp and 215 in the front, I could push right thru my front tires at WOT. Also remember you'll need all that front end traction. With all that power you will generate speed quickly and you'll need the front to hold whether it be for taking a turn too hot or hitting the brakes hard (esp if you have stock brakes). I thought about not doing R compound front tires at one point. I was thinking what do I need all that traction in the front for? I'm really glad I didn't and stuck with all R compounds on all four.
 
WOODY said:
More great info and experience. It is certainly a valid point that the midwest weather will not accommodate the R compounds like the weather out west. If the truth of the matter is that there are street tires that have better traction than cold R compounds (assuming that on an average 80 degree day on Chicago streets the R's will never get warm enough to show their true potential) then I need to explore this option. I often have rain storms on my commute and do not have the option to leave the car and Biobanker's experience is something to learn from, not figure out for myself.
So, in a daily driving application
R compound benefits:
1. maximum traction in perfect conditions

R compound cons:
1. poor performance in rain ( with less than full tread)
2. poor performance in cold
3. short life
4. picks up gravel
5. noisy


So, if I choose to avoid the R compounds I am back to the myriad of choices and opinions for the best traction street tire available.

One thing remains certain is that I need to maximize the foot print to maximize my traction with a street tire. This means a bigger rear rim and getting something in a 305. I agree that the sidewall at this size may be acceptable at a 30 tire
305/30/18 = 25.2 " diameter with 3.6" sidewall, 305/35/18 = 26.41" diameter with 4.2 " sidewall which makes the 30 a wash with the 3.8" sidewall of the stock tire.

So I need the stickiest street tire that comes in a 305/30/18 !!!!
I will select the front size based on what works with the TCS, probably 205/40/17 as it is the most common.
Sorry to be a flake and go full circle on this but the conditions as they exist here in Chicago seem to push the balance against the R's. I am certain the desert is a different story altogether.

so far

Yokohoma ADVAN Neova AD07 have been mentioned ( but don't have 305)and B-Stone (no 305) RE01R, Dunlop Z1 star spec.
decisions , decisions
Click to expand...
Heat in a tire is also generated by WORKING the tire. If you're putting on the street, you are not generating as much heat as on track.

Your negative point #4 is due to the tire being STICKY, if it's cold, it wont pick up gravel as much.

a wider tire dosn't = a bigger contact patch given the same tire pressure. You can increase your contact patch by having a wider tire which enables you to run a lower tire pressure to attain a larger contact patch.

In many cases, a narrower tire will generate more grip than a wider tire, especially if you are not getting the wider tire up to operating temps. On the street, generally it's not as important to 'get them up to temp', but a wider tire dosn't always = more grip.

The front-rear ratio is also a lot more complex than just numbers in terms of handling balance. Not so easy/simple eh?
 
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Its really not worth arguing. Many topics - tires, suspension, etc... are far more complex than people understand/comprehend. Many aspects get pulled apart and emphasized without understanding the whole picture. Also most things are case-specific.

If he was here, i probably wouldn't bother posting. But hey, the Goodyear Eagle F1 GSD3 has the dry grip of a racing slick, wet grip of a racing rain tire, tire life of a 500 treadwear rating, and snow-bite of a blizzak. Why anyone would choose anything else is beyond me...:biggrin:
 
Stuntman brings up very valid points , a wider tire does not always offer more grip , for many reasons ,also , a wider tire will hydroplane easier , this thread needs to be renamed "r888 as DD"
I am sure the 888 is a way better tire in the rain and contrary to what biobanker says , they will not be bald in 1000 miles ( can send you pics of R888 on nsx after 8k kms and one track day , still at 6/32)R-comps don't get as hot on the street , that being said , of all r comp tires , the toyos are the only ones that work almost as well cold , thereby making them very suited to street use

If you drive on ANY tire when it's bald , you are asking for it in the rain!

why not just try the 285/30 or 295/30 in back , I bet you get enough traction! ( At 8 psi , 370whp , they would not spin) at 14psi(not dynoed ,guessing 450?) they spin only in first! - this is 285/30/18 R888.

If you get the traction you need , you just saved yourself a big hassle.
If not , it will still be leaps and bounds better than what you have (I'm thinking at worst it'll hook in second no problem , or first gear from a roll.

I'm not so sure why people think RA-1 or R888 are such a deathtrap on the street , bottom line is I have done it for years (at least 5) on more than one car , AND REMEMBER , they are DOT approved for street use (when tread is legal depth)

you can buy other "really good" or "great" street tires but they will never aproach the RA-1 or R-888 in traction even when cold , try it , you will see , the only other option is the new R1R toyo , as I said I drove them in the rain and dry , they have a very close compound to ra-1 but no good size for you !
 
stuntman said:
If he was here, i probably wouldn't bother posting. But hey, the Goodyear Eagle F1 GSD3 has the dry grip of a racing slick, wet grip of a racing rain tire, tire life of a 500 treadwear rating, and snow-bite of a blizzak. Why anyone would choose anything else is beyond me...:biggrin:
Click to expand...

HAHA ! I was just thinking this!
 
WOODY said:
R compound cons:
1. poor performance in rain ( with less than full tread)
2. poor performance in cold
3. short life
4. picks up gravel
5. noisy
Click to expand...

1. yes they are no good in rain when bald (which tires are?)
2.yes they are not as good in the cold as they are when hot (but still better cold than most street tires)
3.the life is not as short as some would lead you to believe , what good is a tire that lasts so long, it gets dry and hard?
4. as stuntman stated , they won't throw as many rocks if they don't get hot , and you could easily and cheaply get some clear-bra material and stick it on
5.THEY ARE NOT THAT NOISY!!!
 
angus said:
Stuntman brings up very valid points , a wider tire does not always offer more grip , for many reasons ,also , a wider tire will hydroplane easier , this thread needs to be renamed "r888 as DD"
I am sure the 888 is a way better tire in the rain and contrary to what biobanker says , they will not be bald in 1000 miles ( can send you pics of R888 on nsx after 8k kms and one track day , still at 6/32)R-comps don't get as hot on the street , that being said , of all r comp tires , the toyos are the only ones that work almost as well cold , thereby making them very suited to street use

If you drive on ANY tire when it's bald , you are asking for it in the rain!

why not just try the 285/30 or 295/30 in back , I bet you get enough traction! ( At 8 psi , 370whp , they would not spin) at 14psi(not dynoed ,guessing 450?) they spin only in first! - this is 285/30/18 R888.

If you get the traction you need , you just saved yourself a big hassle.
If not , it will still be leaps and bounds better than what you have (I'm thinking at worst it'll hook in second no problem , or first gear from a roll.

I'm not so sure why people think RA-1 or R888 are such a deathtrap on the street , bottom line is I have done it for years (at least 5) on more than one car , AND REMEMBER , they are DOT approved for street use (when tread is legal depth)

you can buy other "really good" or "great" street tires but they will never aproach the RA-1 or R-888 in traction even when cold , try it , you will see , the only other option is the new R1R toyo , as I said I drove them in the rain and dry , they have a very close compound to ra-1 but no good size for you !
Click to expand...

Once again, I agree with everything said above. :smile:
 
angus said:
Stuntman brings up very valid points , a wider tire does not always offer more grip , for many reasons ,also , a wider tire will hydroplane easier , this thread needs to be renamed "r888 as DD"
I am sure the 888 is a way better tire in the rain and contrary to what biobanker says , they will not be bald in 1000 miles ( can send you pics of R888 on nsx after 8k kms and one track day , still at 6/32)R-comps don't get as hot on the street , that being said , of all r comp tires , the toyos are the only ones that work almost as well cold , thereby making them very suited to street use

If you drive on ANY tire when it's bald , you are asking for it in the rain!

why not just try the 285/30 or 295/30 in back , I bet you get enough traction! ( At 8 psi , 370whp , they would not spin) at 14psi(not dynoed ,guessing 450?) they spin only in first! - this is 285/30/18 R888.

If you get the traction you need , you just saved yourself a big hassle.
If not , it will still be leaps and bounds better than what you have (I'm thinking at worst it'll hook in second no problem , or first gear from a roll.

I'm not so sure why people think RA-1 or R888 are such a deathtrap on the street , bottom line is I have done it for years (at least 5) on more than one car , AND REMEMBER , they are DOT approved for street use (when tread is legal depth)

you can buy other "really good" or "great" street tires but they will never aproach the RA-1 or R-888 in traction even when cold , try it , you will see , the only other option is the new R1R toyo , as I said I drove them in the rain and dry , they have a very close compound to ra-1 but no good size for you !
Click to expand...
I'm still torn between which is better in the rain - R888 or RA1. I'm still leaning towards RA1 as better in the rain...

"R-comps don't get as hot on the street , that being said , of all r comp tires , the toyos are the only ones that work almost as well cold , thereby making them very suited to street use"

-Compard to the track or compared to a street tire?

R-compounds generate more grip when 'up to temp' (compared to cold). IMO a cold R-comp has about the same grip is most street tires, then once up to temp, generate a lot more grip.

Street tires also will generate more grip when hotter, but wont work at higher operating temps as teh small tread blocks once hot will (and the compound) won't handle the same kind of abuse.

You can get R-comps up to temp even on a colder day, but they require being 'worked' to generate the heat, but when cold (or the first laps of the first session) they won't have as much grip as when they are up to temp. On a hot-er day, R-comps are warmer and will probably generate more grip than street tires.

I hate generalizations, their's always exceptions to the rule, I gave a lot of generalizations right there, but thats more/less what's going on.
 

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