Problem at startup!

Crossing fingers Ryan :biggrin:

I'll start mine tomorrow after it has sat all this time without a battery tender since Thursday. But I did relocate the ground to where Larry referred to the red circle just to see if that makes a difference. Where is your ground - both the red and green?

BioBanker - any updates?
 
Hrant said:
Crossing fingers Ryan :biggrin:

I'll start mine tomorrow after it has sat all this time without a battery tender since Thursday. But I did relocate the ground to where Larry referred to the red circle just to see if that makes a difference. Where is your ground - both the red and green?

BioBanker - any updates?
Click to expand...

The green ground is in the same spot. However, Shad mentioned that he relocated the red ground to another location. As to where, I am not sure. The problem is still present even after relocation.
 
If he installed yours like mine, the red one would be exactly the opposite side of the block under the first bolt from driver side (towards the trunk side). Quite easy to access. Just for trial I relocated it under the igniter bolt. The igniter bolts were quite firm so I am not sure what problems he was encountering with them.

With you going with AEM and new battery, me still on ACM (though reflashed) and new battery, both trying with and without battery tender we have eliminated a few variables. Your igniter is next :tongue::wink:
 
Hrant said:
If he installed yours like mine, the red one would be exactly the opposite side of the block under the first bolt from driver side (towards the trunk side). Quite easy to access. Just for trial I relocated it under the igniter bolt. The igniter bolts were quite firm so I am not sure what problems he was encountering with them.

With you going with AEM and new battery, me still on ACM (though reflashed) and new battery, both trying with and without battery tender we have eliminated a few variables. Your igniter is next :tongue::wink:
Click to expand...

I hope the new igniter solves the issue. I just want this "gremlin" to go away.
 
Upddate .......... oddly enough, mine started today with no problem after sitting for 6 days without a battery tender:confused:

The only change was relocating the ground now to under the igniter (red circle). Also, ambient temp today was in the mid to high 60s. Will see if it will act up again the next few days.

One thing I did try to be "cognizant of" was when the ignition is turned on and the car starts cranking I didn't immediately release the key; just held it a "nanosecond" longer making sure the contact was solid.
 
Well, unfortunately a new igniter did not solve the problem. I started up the car after it has been sitting idle for a couple of days on the battery tender. The car began surging, hunting for the right idle for about 5 minutes. After the car died a few times, it eventually began idling right. I then shut the car off and tried starting it again (ten times) to see if the problem would come back. The car started fine all 10 times.

So now I have to install a new coolant temp sensor to see if that might be the issue. Are there any other sensors that might be causing this problem (TPS, some kind of idle sensor, etc)? This is getting really frustrating...and expensive! LOL!
 
Yet another update.

Five days later where the car set in the garage with no battery tender, it started fine again! Ambient temp is 60F with high humidity. No changes since the last start - when I changed the ground to be relocated under the red bolt of the igniter. I know Ryan's was not located under the red bolt.

So, Dave, where is your ground located? Just guessing if Joe/Larry did not hit this on the nail while back ..........
 
Hrant said:
Yet another update.

Five days later where the car set in the garage with no battery tender, it started fine again! Ambient temp is 60F with high humidity. No changes since the last start - when I changed the ground to be relocated under the red bolt of the igniter. I know Ryan's was not located under the red bolt.

So, Dave, where is your ground located? Just guessing if Joe/Larry did not hit this on the nail while back ..........
Click to expand...

Well, today was the perfect test. Prior to relocating the ground wire, I tried starting the car up. The car was hooked up to the tender overnight. Sure enough, the rough idle issue popped up. So, I relocated the ground wire to the spot that Hrant suggested and fired the car up. The rough idle issue was still present. Time to swap in the new coolant temp sensor.
 
Ryan, I know this will sound crazy with no "rationale" that I can provide or explain but try to leave it off the battery tender and then try it with the relocated (cleaned and firmly bolted down) ground. My last two tests were without the battery tender; but I am not claiming that the issue is resolved yet.

It is really odd that you keep having this issue after all the changes. We have not heard from Dave for some two weeks now ..........
 
Hrant said:
Ryan, I know this will sound crazy with no "rationale" that I can provide or explain but try to leave it off the battery tender and then try it with the relocated (cleaned and firmly bolted down) ground. My last two tests were without the battery tender; but I am not claiming that the issue is resolved yet.

It is really odd that you keep having this issue after all the changes. We have not heard from Dave for some two weeks now ..........
Click to expand...

Did you also relocate the "green" ground as well?
 
Sorry for being absent guys - I didnt know you were as active posting as you have been...

My ground is installed as the picture shows - and it is solid - no play.

My issue has not recurred for close to two weeks. I am not monitoring ambient temps closely but I continue to believe that my issue is amplified in cooler temps.

100% of the time Ive had a hunting idle it has been in the AM. I get home from work 6:30ish PM and leave for work around 6:30AM, so the car is parked for about the same duration at home and at work. At home its parked in my garage, which isnt heated or connected to the house. At work it's in a heated parking garage.

In the past my issue has not been solved by keeping the battery fully charged (13.3v). Ive wondered if I started the car with a fully charged battery AND a booster pack if that would help. Havent tried that.
 
Last edited:
BioBanker said:
100% of the time Ive had a hunting idle it has been in the AM. ...... At home its parked in my garage, which isnt heated ........
Click to expand...


This has/had been the same issue with mine (two consecutive years, starts in late December and seems to go away with warmer ambient temps). I am wondering what "cold" situation may be causing this after all the variables that we have eliminated, including a fully charged new battery.

Dave, in your situation the variable "may" still have been the battery since the ground is in the red location so we can eliminate a "poor" ground concerns. I hope Ryan tests his setup once again without using the battery tender to eliminate the battery tender variable too ...........
 
Just an update....I replaced the coolant temp sensor yesterday with the hopes that the problem would be fixed. Unfortunately the problem still exists. I am not sure what the next troubleshooting step should be.
 
Another PRIME member contacted me a few weeks ago with the same issues as we have reported. He doesnt want to post, but he has an NA2 with CTSC that displays the same hunting at start up as our cars, BUT the critical difference with his car is that it is happening in warmer weather also.

I have not had my issue recurr for many weeks. The thing that surprises me is that I drove this car for 4 or 5 years in the same configuration in temps that are well below what appear to be an issue now without issue. So something has probably "degraded".

I wonder if it would be worth it to bypass the ACM piggyback? Wasnt that added after some lean situations were observed when the temp droped and the winter gas showed up at CA stations the first year? If that is correct, we should be okay to run the chargers using stock fuel maps as long as we just drive it normally. Thoughts? My issue is gone with current temps so there isnt much experimenting I can do.
 
I wonder if its ambient temp or engine temp. I supose you could have some marginal material contraction and expansion that could make a situation like a bad ground dissapear in warmer temps?

Do we have an idea about ambient vs engine temp yet?
 
Mine has stopped acting up as well since my last post. One thing I do now is when I crank the engine (especially in colder days) I hold the ignition key for a nanosecond longer than just releasing it immediately. Not sure if helps or not.

Regarding ambient vs. engine temp - in reference to "degrading" you may be onto something; but mine is garaged and it never goes below 50F ambient in the garage.
 
BioBanker said:
Another PRIME member contacted me a few weeks ago with the same issues as we have reported. He doesnt want to post, but he has an NA2 with CTSC that displays the same hunting at start up as our cars, BUT the critical difference with his car is that it is happening in warmer weather also.

I have not had my issue recurr for many weeks. The thing that surprises me is that I drove this car for 4 or 5 years in the same configuration in temps that are well below what appear to be an issue now without issue. So something has probably "degraded".

I wonder if it would be worth it to bypass the ACM piggyback? Wasnt that added after some lean situations were observed when the temp droped and the winter gas showed up at CA stations the first year? If that is correct, we should be okay to run the chargers using stock fuel maps as long as we just drive it normally. Thoughts? My issue is gone with current temps so there isnt much experimenting I can do.
Click to expand...

Well, Hrant and I thought the ACM might have been the problem. However, I switched over to the AEM FIC after going high boost and the problem didn't go away.
 
Hmmm ....... over a week and no feedback from all the culprits :confused: I got my car back yesterday after some 6 weeks of hiatus and it is starting just fine. And it did so at Shad where the ambient temp in his garage is even colder.

Perhaps all of this was due to some solar rays around Jan/Dec of 2007/08 and 09/10 ...... :eek::tongue:
 
Hrant said:
Hmmm ....... over a week and no feedback from all the culprits :confused: I got my car back yesterday after some 6 weeks of hiatus and it is starting just fine. And it did so at Shad where the ambient temp in his garage is even colder.

Perhaps all of this was due to some solar rays around Jan/Dec of 2007/08 and 09/10 ...... :eek::tongue:
Click to expand...

Hey Hrant! Sorry for the late reply. I am still struggling with the issue unfortunately every now and then. I did notice that once I start the car and hold the rpms at 4500-5000 for a few seconds the car is able to start up and idle fine.
 
Ryan, just a suggestion - have no clue if it mechanically has any relevance, when you turn the ignition to II, keep it there for a second or two longer and then crank it and hold the crank half a second longer than immediately releasing it. See if that works.

I'll know tomorrow if it will act again now that it is on its home turf :wink:
 
Well so far, leaving the ignition on II for some 5 seconds seems to have worked! I explained this to my gurus (yes I have more than one guru) and both agree that unlike the OEM set up , the CTSC needs to "prime" the fuel or something along those lines. My gurus thought this was common knowledge and practice with aftermarket stuff :redface::tongue:

Try, it really might be as simple as the 5 seconds of wait time :wink:
 
Another data point/update. After being parked for two weeks with a trickle charger, it started perfectly per leaving the ignition on II for some 5 seconds then cranking it. It held the RPM at 1250 till it warmed up. Initial temp readings were oil/water about 55F.

Will see if the solar orientation in January will bring any surprises :wink:
 

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