Problem at startup!

Another reference point for this discussion.

After we replaced the Odyssey 925 battery with a regular 50lbs battery, I had the same hiccup the following day at start up but we ascribed that to probably the battery not being fully charged/initialized even though it is not a dry cell battery. I had one other check engine light situation but that turned out to be not related and just a fluke O2 issue that cleared out.

This Sunday I put some 200 FWY miles on the new battery and both this Tuesday and then again today (outside temp is 50F now) it started with no issues.
 
Hi Guys,

In the picture you can see the two bolts that hold the ignitor. It is the one furthest inboard with the ground wire under it:).

I modified the pic, but cannot seem to be able to upload it.

Regards,
LarryB
 
Update.

Happened again this AM with a fully charged battery (~13.3/4v, but not 14+v).

I also got a TCS light this time, which went out once I was able to get the car to idle properly.

Also different, solid CEL - not flashing.

Larry - I looked at my ignitor bolts. How do I know if my ground is not good? I couldn't feel any play in there - will investigate further.
 
Bio, I am having the same exact issues. There is something going on with the autorotor. Still have not figured it out but I garaged my car for the winter so I didn't care. Its not the battery guys. I put a brand new costco battery in, and it is still doing it. It is intermittent. My idle is actually fine MOST of the time but a few times it just dies on hard deceleration. On driving, I get a lot of hesitation like the engine is running rich and flooding. I let off the gas and it seems to find itself. At the track, I have had all the exact codes you have listed. Lots of advice and checks already, look at my thread here:

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=126396

and here:


http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=128591

I believe your problem and mine are the same Dave. Would love to figure this one out. My mechanic spent 6 hours on my car and everything checks OK. I have no issues at WOT. It is that lower RPM up to about 4K maybe where it hesitates, stumbles, etc. My car still has arouns 14K miles on it and so I doubt it is any sensors going bad already. I believe this to be CTSC related but am not 100%.

We need to get to the bottom of this. I'm ready to drive my car over to Larry and sleep in a hotel for a while.
 
TURBO2GO said:
Bio, I am having the same exact issues. There is something going on with the autorotor.
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From your post, I don't believe your issue is the same as ours which was at startup and mostly in cold weather conditions - but not always. Mine seem to have stopped and I still think it has to do with a battery not fully charged or if new not fully initialized.
 
Larry the green or the red?

igniter-1.jpg
 
Hrant said:
From your post, I don't believe your issue is the same as ours which was at startup and mostly in cold weather conditions - but not always. Mine seem to have stopped and I still think it has to do with a battery not fully charged or if new not fully initialized.
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Really Hrant? same engine codes? Dave's description sounds aweful familiar.

I'm gonna make a video of mine... Dave can you post a video?
 
Mine drives like a champ. No hesitation. Nothing wrong with anything except for what happens at cold start, and it is only every now and then.

I agree with Hrant, it does not sound like the same thing. I have a hunting idle at start up only.
 
BioBanker said:
Mine drives like a champ. No hesitation. Nothing wrong with anything except for what happens at cold start, and it is only every now and then.

I agree with Hrant, it does not sound like the same thing. I have a hunting idle at start up only.
Click to expand...

I was able to capture video of my start-up issue, which is the same as what you are experiencing. In the video you will see the rough, rich idle and will later see the problem "fix" itself after about 3 min of rough idle.

Since I went high boost with the AEM FIC I don't think the problem is related to the ACM unit. I alreay replaced my main relay and I am waiting to swap in a new coolant temp sensor. Shad at Driving Ambition checked the ground that Larry suggested and it was fine. Perhaps a different ground is bad?

Once I learn how to post a video I will upload the one that I took.
 
The ground that Larry is talking about (Red) is very sturdy in my car, but I was rooting around and found that my pos terminal was loose. If it is voltage related, that could be it. I snugged it up so we shall see how it goes.

I started it about 15 times tonight. No problem, but they were hot starts.

FACTORYNSXTECH (Rob, my mechanic) also suggested the coolant temperature sensor as a potential - he said that he has seen a few of these go bad in our cars and end up with this symptom.
 
Here is the video of my car idling rough upon start-up and then "fixing" itself....

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Ryan, mine is similar to yours in that its lumpy, but yours was chugging away between a few hundred RPM and a thousand. Mine hunts between 0 RPM and 2500 RPM, a way wider range. It is also spewing tons of unburnt fuel - I can smell it and I have that thick white smoke exhaust.
 
BioBanker said:
Ryan, mine is similar to yours in that its lumpy, but yours was chugging away between a few hundred RPM and a thousand. Mine hunts between 0 RPM and 2500 RPM, a way wider range. It is also spewing tons of unburnt fuel - I can smell it and I have that thick white smoke exhaust.
Click to expand...



So it happened again today after you secured the pos cable? If you have been running rich like this for some time, especially short 3 mile commutes, there is a good chance that your spark plugs need to be changed.

I did change mine when we reflashed the ACM and put a new battery; they did show rich fuel even though the car has only 58K miles now and this running rich occured no more than 3 times before the change.

I suggest whatever you do next, try to reflash the ACM as well, and do try to have the 925 deep cycled just to eliminate variables.
 
No, it hasnt happened since I snugged up the pos terminal. I tightened it last night and the car started perfectly this AM.

I also never drove the car with the messy idle - I always got it to idle perfectly before I drove it. So far it has been easy to regain perfect idle - maybe 10 seconds worth of gas at the start and then its fine. Twice resetting the codes seemed to work - not sure why.

It has been running a bit rich since the charger went in (as they all do), but nothing has changed in the way it is running. I will try to do a quick A/F check on the way home if traffic allows.
 
Happened this AM. So it wasnt the loose pos terminal. It could still be the battery though.

Curious that this only happens in the AM. Its either that the car sits for 12 hrs or that it is a few degrees cooler. But the car is at work for about 12 hrs too, so thats prob not it.

For my record keeping 5degrees celsius this AM.

Which Oddyssey fits in the stock set up?
 
Obviously the 925 fits - using the same OEM basket and bracket placed across the battery not on the edge, and based on measurements, the 1200 would fit too. And I have a brand new 1200 in the box (unopened) shipped by Odyssey.

I talked to Nate at CT Engineering yesterday. He said the newer ACMs (not the originals back when they introduced the Autorotor) runs a bit rich to avoid lean situations in cold weather. If you add to that cold weather start and perhaps a low voltage draw due to a battery that is not fully charged or weak, that may cause the rich idle.
 
Another data point:

It happened again this AM but the car fixed itself in just a few seconds. I heard a click from the back and it started to idle perfectly.

This is the first time that Ive started it with the AC on. I believe that the click was the starting up of the AC. Would the AC turning on result in the alternator kicking in at the same time?

It still has never happened at any time other than the first start up in the early AM (6:30AM). The car sits for 12 hrs while Im at work in a warm space. Never any issues when I want to go home. This suggests that it is temperature related because the duration the car is inactive is the same when Im at work or at home overnight.
 
I didnt know that the 925 would fit in the stock battery tray, so I installed a tray made for the 925 on the stock tray. I cant put a stock battery (or another battery other than a 925) in the car without a significant PITA.

I may rip all that crap out and go back to the stock size battery, but I would buy a big Odyssey that will fit in the stock tray and call it a day. I blew through too many stock batteries with the drain in the car.
 
I hear you ...... but for purposes of trial to eliminate the issue, assuming this is not your only daily driver, you can try testing for a few days back to back with a regular battery and then decide no?

In case you need an Odyssey 1200 (instead of the heavier 1400), I have a brand new one that I got from Odyssey last month. The box has not been opened yet :wink:
 
Larry Bastanza said:
Red:) The ground lead is under that bolt on the stock wiring.

Regards,
LarryB
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I just noticed after some looking and scratching my head as there was no ground wire there that my ground was installed securely behind the blower on the plate just like the green circled one is. I relocated it under the red bolt to see if this makes a difference. But both the igniter bolts were quite tight to start with so was the ground.

Edit: I guess while we are at this, let me ask the following. Is the green circled ground in other CTSC under the other igniter bolt? Does it make a difference where the ground is attached?
 
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Wow, sounds like a headache.. is this a common problem in all the year NSXs or just some? I hope you fellas get it figured out. I know when my S2 had the flashing CEL light I had a bad spark plug wire connection to the plug itself in cylinder 3. Melted the spark plug & wire & caused my engine to fail.

As for resetting the ECU, my friend had the same problem with misfiring & reset the ECU & it never came back. It had thrown the car into safe mode because of hard driving & the ECU misread something.

GL guys & hope you get the cars on the road running well soon.
 
Just an update....my car acted up again this morning after sitting idle for a couple of days. The battery was connected to a Battery Tender during this time. I installed a new igniter today and will see if the problem is still present.
 

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