One '94 NSX...a snow storm...and an owner who may be a little 'off'...OH MY!!

[710]

I drove for 45 mins in a freezing rain storm last Fri. Counted more than 10 vehicles in the ditch in about 30 miles .. some on their roofs; some off in the bushes. About 10 vehicles ahead of me, a pickup truck pulling a 5th wheel horse trailer did a slow pirouet from the driving lane across the passing lane and into the ditch between the highways. Most vehicles were doing 30 mph with their flashers on .. I was passing at about 45 with no stability problems (Michelin X-Ice winter tires) although it was sheer ice and there was no way any of us could have stopped. Fortunately, the roads here on the northern plains are straight as an arrow so no need to test the cornering G's.

You’re right about the no stopping thing, it wouldn’t be possible to stop if we needed to. Coming home from work the other day we were all doing about 40kph on a 3 lane motorway, only the right 2 lanes were being used. Had about 3 inches of snow with ice underneath. What a pain in the… We were going slightly down hill for a long time, the cars on the other side had to go up hill and we all got a nice view of some of those cars spinning slowly into the ditch (it also was off camber for them besides being uphill). Kind of like dancing…
As traffic lightened up a little I changed lanes to pass some real slow guy and ended up going past him sideways. Fun but not fun. I was thinking of the cost of a new fender…Needed my beater over here…
Peter

 

[710]

My best memories driving in the snow was with a 1983 VW Rabbit GTI. Best of all, passing 4wd & all wheel drive vehicles going to the ski resorts:biggrin:

skinny tyres rule! All those 4x4s with their big fat mud tyres don't have a chance against a FWD family car.

 

[710]

beacause i'd like to drive my nsx all day everyday, just like you. but i just dont have the guts to do it. now your driving yours in the snow!? wow! i was daily driving mines for a while but couldn't stand logging on miles..(116k) after reading your post for your campaign to log on as much miles as you can, that really inspired me to drive my car more often. plus you got two nsx's,...got me pondering about a second nsx. should i sell my RL?? :smile:

Ok, mr. modesty here. I bought my NSX last December with 51,800kms on it. I now have 115,000km. pretty good, eh? I have driven it everyday since I bought it (except yesterday). In the rain, snow and sun. I got tired of washing it, and the other NSXers around here keep reminding me it's dirty. But I drive it everyday, of course it’s going to be dirty (weather here in this part of Europe is sh*t, kind of like being on a boat in the Atlantic all the time…). I saw the price of fuel going up and up and thought I better drive the thing now because in a year it might be €2-3 per litre (is €1.30/litre now…) and I wouldn’t be able to afford it anymore. Plus it’s a great car to drive as you know, and it’s MADE for driving!:smile:
Peter

 

[710]

Mitch and Ian, something you might be interested in. Are you sitting down? Emergency stopping in the snow, have you tried this? A few winters ago I decided to test stopping in the snow. I only had my 4 wheel drive Cosworth Escort then and I practiced something. I pretended that a kid jumped out in front of the car and tried to stop. With/without ABS, getting it sideways, putting it in neutral, I tried everything. I way flattened the “kid” every time. I was going about 45kph.
Then one time I threw it into reverse (that car has a syncro on reverse and an LSD in the front and rear) and hit the gas! The car stopped dead every time. I mean almost dead. Real short stopping distance. The car stalled every time too. So there was grip down there. The front wheels grappled themselves deeper and deeper and just stopped the car. Amazing. I was really amazed. Putting it in reverse was a bit violent, but hey, there’s a dumb kid in front of me, right? I think the heat from the tyres spinning melted through the snow and started to touch the asphalt (had about 5 inches of snow then). And it wasn’t hard packed by traffic, you know that stuff under there is like ice. So I turned slightly into the side to get softer snow.
So I tried it on my NSX. Being RWD you need to spin the car round 180 degrees and pause a second to let the tyres roll with grip then hit the gas! You have to pause a little, that’s important. It works! Spinning the car is easy with practice. Nick a couple of road cones and find a parking lot with snow. 3 hours later you can spin the car around exactly every time. You know how everything happens real slow (and helpless) in the snow? Well, I got the idea by seeing a car the other day spin slowly around IN HIS LANE, the guy didn’t even cross the white lines on either side. Everybody just drove around the poor guy because nobody could stop anyway. Idiot shouldn’t have panicked; he kept his foot on the gas.
But having all the weight on the back (like all the weight is on the front of the Cosworth) helps to dig the rear in when you floor it. Theory says static friction is way more than dynamic friction, but in the snow the effect is different. It digs in and that stops the car. You need to tell the kid to choose a place with soft snow though, because it’s the digging in that stops the car. And of course you don’t need reverse, just keep it the same gear as you were driving in as before.
Safety first…
Peter

 

[710]

too bad I can't see the expression on your faces...

 

[spartan2-3]

I would seriously try that except we dont get snow in Northern Cali :tongue:.

Looks fun :biggrin:

 

[NSX2398]

Hi Ian, your article about driving in the snow was one of the first ones I read when I got my NSX last December. Very interesting.

Tks Peter, I appreciate it. There was no such article when I bought mine and I was somewhat apprehensive .. so I wanted to share my experiences and help others out who might be going through the same thought processes.

The only thing is, we don’t have enough snow to justify changing tyres. So I drive on the stock tyres, which are too wide to get any grip on snow.

Peter, you're a brave man. Using used '91-94 OEM wheels off eBay, I think I was able to get a 4 wheel winter set for under $1000US .. and you should be able to justify some of that cost by less miles/wear on your summer tires.

As you know, for snow I need skinny tyres.

Although everyone says that skinny are better in snow (and the WRC races in snow/ice use really skinny tyres), my winter tyres are the same width as my summer ones and I haven't really noticed any problems. I don't really know what the minimum width would be for the front rims would be (195? 185?) but once you get into weird sizes like that (185-50-15), it's nearly impossible to find anyone who makes that size.

As Brownbear said yesterday on nsxcb.co.uk

Tks for the link .. this should be a 'must read' for anyone with technical problems as an alternate source of ideas.

And the low front spoiler lip. Actually THAT is the big problem. Trucks in front of me drop big snow clumps from their wheel arches, you know what I mean, and then my spoiler lip hits them. It’s not strong enough to smash them. So taking of the spoiler-lip is a good idea.

Yes, I understand what you're saying although it's much less of an issue here. I have to worry more about potential small animal road kill .. but same issue. Fortunately, I've been lucky so far. Worst scare I got was passing a semi at night and a previous incident had left half a deer carcass in the lane .. fortunately I was just far enough past the semi that I was able to make an emergency lane change back.
Mitch and Ian, something you might be interested in. Are you sitting down?

Emergency stopping in the snow, have you tried this? ... too bad I can't see the expression on your faces...

That's truly nuts If you weren't successful and did have an accident, I'm sure you'd have a difficult time explaining your strategy to the cops. Sounds way too risky to me. I think you'd have much better luck just using the ABS to steer around the obstacle and not worry about stopping in time ... which I think is what the big advantage of ABS is supposed to be. In fact, I think it's well documented that ABS works against you (as far as stopping distances) in certain situations like deep snow (also gravel) where a buildup in front of the wheel would have helped slow you but ABS insists on letting the wheel roll which keeps the build up from happening.

I do regularly slam on the brakes in the winter though which exercises the ABS solenoids and keeps them keep their seals fresh.

 

[710]

That's truly nuts

Yeah, and I would be nuts to try it on the open road. I wouldn’t have the nerve to do it.
But it works in a parking lot.
I WOULD do it with the Cosworth, though, if I could react quick enough (no need to turn the car around with that car though, only throw it into reverse). If a kid did run out in front of me, I probably wouldn’t have the time to react though.
It rained hard last night and took all our snow away, I suppose it’s for the best.

...somewhat apprehensive ..

I didn’t think it was strange, just interesting. None of my cars have ever been garage queens. They are meant to be used. I’m not reckless with them, but they are used, and if that means in the snow, then it can only be good to try it and learn what I can. I also rally, so slipping and sliding seems to be fun for me. I have learned a lot about driving that way. I’m sure it’s helped me on the road.
When I first got my NSX last December, I spent a whole day in the hills (with light snow/shush) going up and down one street. Used a whole tank of gas. It was uphill, winding and wide. Then I’d come downhill (slower), and turn around and go back up. I learned to slide the car that day, because I knew that if I got into a slide in traffic, I couldn’t afford the repair bill for this car. I think everybody should do that, for safety’s sake. I was frightened at first, but soon learned that this car is the most balanced car I’ve driven.
Peter

 

[needspeed]

I just saw this thread and even though we are going into Summer I was already thinking about what to do in winter. Now I know......Thanks for showing the way. This also gives me a good reason/excuse to buy really nice new wheels for the non-winter months.........Steve

 

[Meeyatch1]

I just saw this thread and even though we are going into Summer I was already thinking about what to do in winter. Now I know......Thanks for showing the way. This also gives me a good reason/excuse to buy really nice new wheels for the non-winter months.........Steve

I do what I can....for society.

 

[Photodavo]

Hi Mitch - I found you! :biggrin: