OK, who's taunting the Ferrari guys?

Originally posted by khuezee:
Silly question, but what is "GTO" money?

He is refering to some of the early GTO models the were produced that are quite rare and for collectors. Big $$$$$

Bye the way, thanks Bill. Very informative b/c you only hear about how the cars cost so much to maintain, never how reliable they can be !!



[This message has been edited by Tom Larkins (edited 07 August 2002).]
 
GTO money is upwards of 3million dollars. For a car that in the 1960's was traded for 5,000. Who would have knew then? This is what everyone is hoping for to happen again, but it will never happen again, because there are too many cars being produced now. Also those cars had racing history in actual races, which no longer exist now.
Sure they can be bitch to maintain, but if you budget yourself out, you really don't have much to worry about. Also if you drive the damned thing like it was meant to things will go wrong alot less. It's this American mentality where there is some unwritten law that people will look down on you if you drive more than 1000 miles a year. In Europe they drive the hell out of them and it doesn't seem to affect resale, but not over here. Heck, my cars are considered high mileage (35,000 and 20,000) but you know what, I enjoyed every single mile I put on them. Here is a scenario. One 1989 Testarossa with 5,000 miles on it sells for $75,000. The same year Testarossa with 30,000 miles sells for $65,000. Who enjoyed the car more? For 10,000 was it worth drive it 500 miles a year. To me that is a complete waste of money and these guys aren't really auto enthusiasts, just braggards who like to brag about what they have.
 
Originally posted by bill92nsx:
It's this American mentality where there is some unwritten law that people will look down on you if you drive more than 1000 miles a year. In Europe they drive the hell out of them and it doesn't seem to affect resale, but not over here.

I know that when I get my NSX, I am gonna drive the s#!t out of it. But maintain it properly, of course. i would like to be the guy who is 75 years old, who drove his NSX 1,000,000 miles. Hopefully for that accomplishment, Acura will reward me with a 2055 NSX. And I will make it on the 11 'o clock news.



[This message has been edited by khuezee (edited 07 August 2002).]
 
Originally posted by bill92nsx:
When will these people wake up and understand that investing in a car is possbly the worst investment one can actually make. Gone are the days when these cars will turn to vintage cars and fetch GTO money. We will never see that again. Look at the McLaren. Teh car was a cool mill when new and now it is only and will only be worth half price. Sorry for the rambling but this is how I feel. It is these kind of jerks that give the rest of us Ferrari owners a bad name. Most of us aren't really like that.

I agree with most everything you have said here, I also own a '87 Testarossa and have had nothing but problems with it, I would drive it more if it didn't leave me stranded. I certainly didn't buy this car as an investment and only buy my cars to drive.

The part I don't agree with is your citing the McLaren F1 as not being a good investment. If you think you can pick one up for 500K in the states please let me know where I will buy all you can find. I was looking for one previously and the lowest price I ever saw one sell for in the last 2 years is 1.5M nearly double what they sold for new. I wish the money I invested in the market would of preformed as well. I also believe the F40 and F50 Ferrari's will appreciate over time, there will always be enough people wanting them and too few examples to fill the supply.
 
Carguy I saw an ad for the McLaren, and when I looked for it and found it, it was in the UK for 550,000 euros. Close to 535,000 USD. To bring one over can be done because these cars were imported after all, I figure conversion costs another 50g and you have yourself a McLaren for under 600,ooo. I could be wrong about this though. Anyway none of these cars (limited produced) like the f40 and f50 will lose value. But they will never fetch GTO money is where I am trying to get at.

What problems have you had with your Testarossa? Other than a starter I was never left stranded or had any major problems with this car (knock on wood). Its an 89 with 35000 miles and enjoyed every single one of them
 
The lowest price I have seen for a Mclaren for sale in the US was 1.2 Million. So if you can find them for 550K, my suggestion is buy as many as you can and sell them here.

By the way, I have always been a fan of the 512TR. I have always loved the testarossa, but the 512 IMO is much better looking. Anyone own one of those? I wish the interior looked a little nicer compared to the NSX though. I still plan on own one, someday...
 
Originally posted by bill92nsx:
Carguy I saw an ad for the McLaren, and when I looked for it and found it, it was in the UK for 550,000 euros. Close to 535,000 USD. To bring one over can be done because these cars were imported after all, I figure conversion costs another 50g and you have yourself a McLaren for under 600,ooo. I could be wrong about this though. Anyway none of these cars (limited produced) like the f40 and f50 will lose value. But they will never fetch GTO money is where I am trying to get at.

What problems have you had with your Testarossa? Other than a starter I was never left stranded or had any major problems with this car (knock on wood). Its an 89 with 35000 miles and enjoyed every single one of them

Bill,
It sounds like you might of seen one listed in pounds, with the current conversion rate that would put the car at 840,000 + conversion. I had heard of a company that was converting these cars to US spec but it was prohibitively expensive and required some major changes. I also don't believe the value will ever skyrocket, but a nice steady 5-10% yearly should be very plausable.

Some of the more serious problems I have had with my Testarossa:
Oil leaking - I like to keep my garage very clean so this drives me nuts!

Likes to start running on 6 cylinders - Only one half of the engine will run until I start pushing on the electical connections to the other half of the engine.

Wiring problems from the battery to the starter which caused the car not to start.

Minor problems:

Automatic seat belts don't work, was told by Ferrari dealer to not fix them because they will only break again in a couple of years.

Air conditioning leaks and doesn't blow cold air.

Various cables stick.

Front trunk needs a piece of wood to hold it up, was also told by the dealer that these shocks aren't worth replacing.

Gauges that stick then jump around with strange readings.

I realize a lot of the little problems are due to the car not being driven enough, but I would drive the car more if I didn't have the major problems. My car has 17K miles on it and I have only put 3K of that in two years. The car has also cost me $8,700 to perform the 15K service! Some of that cost was for tires and brakes though. Maybe I am spoiled because the first exotic car I purchased was a used '91 NSX so my expectations have always been high.

Take care and good luck with all of your cars.
 
Originally posted by bill92nsx:

Here is a scenario. One 1989 Testarossa with 5,000 miles on it sells for $75,000. The same year Testarossa with 30,000 miles sells for $65,000. Who enjoyed the car more? For 10,000 was it worth drive it 500 miles a year?

HERE! HERE!
 
Bill & Carguy, I know i'm getting off topic now but; In your opinion or from what other F-drivers have told you, what are the most maintenance friendly Ferrari's you know of. The 355 has always had an effect on me and some of the cars are reaching affordability. You hear horror stories about some of them and you guys seem unbiased.
 
I have read all the stories on NSXfiles.com and my take from it is this issue.

If you drive a ferrari hard (say the same as you would drive your NSX), it will not last long without needing repairs. My favorite line from nsxfiles.com is "if you are going to buy a ferrari, get two, cause one will always be in the shop". (loose quote)

Now, I know that is just their experiences and they may not be typical of ALL ferrari's. In the F-cars defense, one of them recently bought a 360 and I don't think he has had any trouble with it.

Even with all the problems related to them, I would still one day love to own one.


------------------
1993 White NSX, 70K miles and running STRONG!
 
Originally posted by Tom Larkins:
what are the most maintenance friendly Ferrari's you know of.

My impression is that they are steadily improving (as are all automakers), so I would assume that the 360 Modena is more reliable than its predecessors.

I assume you're referring to unexpected repairs, not the cost and need for scheduled maintenance.
 
I took a look at a 2000 360 Modena in Miami last week, took it for a test drive and spoke with the Ferrari service consultant. He said a clutch replacement would run between 2,100 and 3,000 or about the same as I spent to have my Comptech put in, and that the service at 15,000 miles(first major) which included valve adjustment, would run around $2,500-$3,000. The next major service would be at 30,000 miles and that would require the cam belts being replaced along with the valve adjustments and that was in the $4,000-$4,500 range. All in all, the projected service costs were less than I had expected. The car drove beautifully and was very solid feeling and tight. The steering felt impeccable at moderate speeds...I only wish I would have had the opportunity to turn the wick up a bit more. If I had the $ to spend on a car I'd definitely consider the 360.
 
Originally posted by TampaBayNSX-R:
the service at 15,000 miles(first major) which included valve adjustment, would run around $2,500-$3,000.

eek.gif
Typical 15K service for the NSX is $600.

Originally posted by TampaBayNSX-R:
at 30,000 miles and that would require the cam belts being replaced along with the valve adjustments and that was in the $4,000-$4,500 range.

eek.gif
eek.gif
Typical 30K service for the NSX is $800.
 
TampabayNSXR its jerks like that service guy who scares the living daylights out of future Ferrari owners. First of at the 15,000 mile mark the service consists of checking timing belts, draining and putting new fluids, and stuff like that. Like I said take it to the dealer and they will gouge your eyes out. All this can be done by a competent mechanic, heck you can even do it yourself, and it will cost under $500. This service manager does not know his ass from his head, because since 1994, Ferrari has been using hydraulic lifters, which means you NEVER adjust valves. Another thing the major service at 30,000 which does require the engine to come out of the car, is not a necessary one. If you go by the owners manual and even the factory they claim you should change your belts at 52,500 miles. People just change them at 30,000 for piece of mind. Rather spend $3000 for a timing belt change than $25,000 for an engine rebuild.

Tom Larkins, the Testarossa was their real first attempt at an everyday car. For me they have succeeded. But the first car that everyone acknowledges as the first Ferrari everyday car was the 355. Which up to now has proven to be very reliable, not just for me but for many owners. The 360 is even more reliable, but like I said, I am not big fan of the shape. Ferrari, IMO, is starting to lose their sex appeal, letting aerodynamics design the shape for them. Like I am going to drive 180mph anyday soon.

Carguy, since I use my car on a regular basis I do not have one drop of oil on the floor. What happens when a car sits, is the gaskets dry out and crack thus causing oil leaks. The same goes for the electronics. In what condition did you buy the car? Did it have these problems before, or did they just start on you? I think you way overpaid for the service, in which they should have took care of all of these problems. To service my TR witht the engine and everything out it costs me $3000. And thats because I don't take it to a dealer. I never trust those guys anyway. They never do everything they're supposed to and what they do, they do it halfassed. My friend took his TR to one of the top dealerships in Connecticut (according to Ferrari experts) to get his service done. All in all they charged him $11,000. When he got the car back it was leaking oil out of the distributors and they did not even clean up the engine. Anyway oil was getting into the cap and causing the car to run like shit. So in fact he got the car back in worse condition than the way he gave it. He takes it back and complains. They tell him that his distributor caps are shot. These are very expensive and they hardly ever go bad. They replace the caps, which were supposed to be included in the service. No charge there. He gets the car back with the same results. After he called again I got on the phone and told those a**holes to give me the gasket and I will do it my self. Upon taking out the distributor caps I see that it is cracked and old. We go up there and show them and they tried to deny everything. Once my friend threatened with legal action they gave us 2 new caps and the gaskets. Within 10 minutes I did the job and the car ran like new. These so called specialists (which I think they find on the street and hire them) could not put a gasket the right way TWICE, and all it took was 10 minutes. And they lied about the things they replaced. This is what happens at alot of dealerships, even Acura, which is why I will NEVER EVER bring my car to dealer. You find yourself a competent mechanic and he will treat you like royalty if intends to keep you as a customer. You will never see this at a dealership.

Sorry for my rambling
 
Roadrunner, I wish. But you are right I do have a nice time with my babies. And if you are ever in the NY area I wouldn't mind showing you that there is life beyond the NSX
wink.gif
 
Originally posted by bill92nsx:
Rather spend $3000 for a timing belt change

Originally posted by bill92nsx:
To service my TR witht the engine and everything out it costs me $3000. And thats because I don't take it to a dealer.

So, what you're saying is, Ferrari owners pay too much for service, because they should be paying only $3000
eek.gif
(for services which cost $600 to $1200 on an NSX).
 
The difference between an NSX service and a Ferrari service is, the engine is necessary to come out of the car in a Ferrari. You cannot change the timing belts ona Ferrari with the engine in the car except the 308/328 series. That is why you're paying a premium. That is the good thing about an NSX though. It is cheaper to maintain and it feels as if you're driving 9/10th's of a Ferrari. As much as I like the NSX I do like the Ferrari alittle better. But only a little.

Here are a few pics of my cars http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4291743149
 
You are a lucky man and have 2 beautiful Ferrari's. I just don't think you are going to have much luck convincing many people on this board that Ferrari's are even close to the fit, finish, engineering, or build quality of the NSX. The fact that you have not had any problems is overshadowed by the stories we have all heard from many Ferrari owners over the years. If not driving it was the only "sin" to bad maintenance then you need to spend some time reading about 2 355 (now a 360) owners I know. Many of us read the humorous stories of Ferrari ownership (and maintenance nightmares) from our own Doug H at http://www.nsxfiles.com

The NSX tied the Lexus LS400 for the JD Powers most reliable car after a 5 year period. Many of us scream bloody murder when anything goes wrong.

Hey my last name is Matteucci and I have spent weeks in Italy and have dreamed of Ferraris in my sleep since I was able to walk. I (like many) would likely trade our NSX for a new 360 or 355 if it were not for the cost and maintenance of these cars. I love the NSX for what it is - an exotic sports car with many of the elements I love in sports cars without many of the downsides (maintenance, purchase cost, parts availability, mechanic availability, ability to drive every day, etc.)

Good luck with your beautiful Ferrari's as you are one very lucky man to be able to afford AND maintain such beautiful cars.

------------------
Nick M

91' Red/Black with Many Mods
99' Honda Odyssey with Many Kids
 
Bill thanks for taking time to clear up some mis-conceptions on my part , good material for future reference. Why buy it, if you can't drive it and enjoy it!!! Only overnight parking is allowed in my garage.
 
Matteni I am not trying to convince anyone on this board into thinking the Ferraris are anywhere near as reliable to the NSX at all. Hey it was due to the NSX that Ferrari shaped and created a somewhat more reliable car. But as to a Ferrari being close to the fit, finish engineering, or build quality of an NSX you are way off if you are thinking that the Ferrari is likea kit car. I do not know which Ferrari you have been in or seen but their build quality, fit, and finish are comparable if not better than the NSX. The car is made up of a tubular racing frame whose only drawback to the NSX's frame is in the weight department. As for the engineering department Ferrari is way ahead of the NSX. Just look at the technology in today's Ferrari compared to the NSX. 400hp from a 3.6liter v8 with F1 technology inspired transmission against a 29ohp 3.2l with regular tranny. Yes the tranny in the NSX is easier to use but it is no engineering marvel. As for the interior, as soon as you open the door to NSX, you see half leather and a sort of rubber material covering everything else. You step into a Ferrari you are overwhelmed from the smell of fine leather that covers just about every single piece of interior. There is a real touch of class in the Ferrari where the NSX feels bland. But again this my opinion. As for paint and body fitting, the car is superb. There are no gaps in the different body fittings as there are none in the NSX. That is why I say it is comparable to the NSX. The NSX is a beautiful timeless design but then again the Ferrari is an instant classic and the most recognizable design. The NSX looked lomg and hard at Ferrari line of cars (mosstly Testarossa and part I would say F40) when they came up with the design. I have read the NSX files where they bought a couple of Ferraris and I was shocked actually of how much abuse these cars could actually take before things went wrong. Yes we do scream bloody murder when something does go wrong in the NSX, but that is what we were expecting when we bought one. It is afterall made from Honda. As for the Ferrari you do expect things to go wrong and when they don't hey it's a plus. I am not trying to sway anyone from an NSX, I would never sell mine but if one car had to go this would be the first one, because they are great cars overall. I crack up when people tell me it drives like your mother's Honda, or it's a Ferrari wannabe. The NSX is a great fun car to drive with all the benefits of owning an esotic. You really could not ask for more (except a bump in power) from an exotic and I am very glad that I own one and do not regret it one bit. What I am trying to get at is that I am an auto enthusiast and respect a car for what it is, not the badge. I know of alot of NSX owners that put down a Ferrari without ever having been in one and I know alot of Ferrari owners who do the same with the NSX. Like I said, I laugh at these people for their ignorance. Maybe I am one of those lucky few who have enjoyed their Ferrari with few to no problems, but I can only speak from my personal experience. They have been ultra reliable as everyday cars rain or shine. People look at my cars and can't believe how I keep them in the condition they are (usually very dirty with rock chips on the bumpers) and you know what I tell them, If I wanted a garage queen I would have bought one of the 1/18 scale models to look at for twenty bucks not spend $80,000 and have it sit in the garage. And from what I gather from a lot of Ferrari owners the more they use them the more reliable they have been. To prove this, there is a guy who bought a Testarossa new and drives it every single day (this is his real daily driver) and has about 150,000 miles on it with no problems whatsoever. He lives in California. If you have it use it, and that goes for the NSX garage queens as well. you don't know how I hate to see 10 year old cars with 10,000 miles on them, to me, that is a waste of money. Again sorry for the rambling just trying to educate.
 
Matteni thanks for the link, I was looking for that a while ago. After rereading it, they had minor and annoying problems. It seems as if there cars were pretty reliable after the abuse they took. I am sure if I drove the NSX like that all day long some of these same problems will occur. But it does seem like they favor the Ferrari over the NSX and they say what I have been saying all along. Don't knock the car until you drive it.
 
I've driven the F355. I thought the experience was very similar to the NSX (aside from the LOUD exhaust and the great leather smell that Bill mentions). Very precise handling, power, and brakes so when you want to point it somewhere it's there RIGHT NOW - just like the NSX. I've driven other high-end cars (e.g. NA Porsche 993 and 996) and thought that the experience was very different from the NSX, really kind of mushy in their responses; some other cars have better power but don't have that feeling of precision, like driving a scalpel. The Ferrari does.
 
Back
Top