NSX Succesor to be announced tonight? 7/11/05?

[MJK]

I knew this press annoucement sounded familiar:

North American International Auto Show, Detroit 01/05/2004

Good morning ladies and gentlemen. And thank you for joining Honda again.
This was the first opportunity for most of you to see ASIMO. But probably all of you are wondering why we brought this advanced humanoid robot to one of the world's great auto shows. I am sure most of you look at Honda as an automobile company. But we see ourselves differently.

From the foundation of Honda more than 50 years ago, we have viewed ourselves as a mobility company. We began by producing motorcycles, because that was the quickest way to provide mobility. But over the years, we continued to focus on creating new dreams for our customers - and harnessing advanced technology to provide new and better mobility for people.

Certainly, it is too early to expect an ASIMO in your living room. But the same passion for new technology that created ASIMO is leading us in other directions in mobility.

Last month, we conducted a successful first test flight of a new Honda business jet in North Carolina. The airframe, wing design and compact turbofan engine are the result of original research and design by Honda engineers. We have created a business jet with high performance, high fuel efficiency, low emissions - and a spacious cabin. Sounds like a Honda, right?

Programs like this business jet and the development of ASIMO have important value for Honda. We have always targeted the world's most advanced technologies - and then developed new products based on the skills of our own engineers.

The words of our founder -- "Do - not - imitate - others" -- are burned in the minds of everyone at Honda. We have no interest in following. The value of creation is not only in technology. The value is in the Honda engineers who create that technology. And who will create new products for our customers in the future.

This philosophy impacts everything we do as a company -- especially the real world products we create for customers. Products that offer the highest level of safety and advanced environmental technology - and yet are still fun to drive.

Today, I would like to briefly outline Honda's near term strategy for advancing environmental technologies in North America. Even from our leadership position, we believe we - can - do - more to provide real world benefits for our customers and society. First - we believe it is possible for conventional engines to be cleaner and more fuel efficient.

Toward that goal, this fall, we will introduce a vehicle in the U.S. with Variable Cylinder Management. A V6 engine with VCM runs on all six cylinders during acceleration. Yet uses only three cylinders when cruising. Thus, VCM enhances fuel efficiency while maintaining fun-to-drive - and other performance features.

However, with conventional engines there is still wasted energy during deceleration and idling. So, we invested in original hybrid technology to increase fuel efficiency and performance.

Insight has ranked number one in fuel economy for five straight years. But the strength of Honda's IMA hybrid technology is that it is transparent to the customer - lower in cost and easier to add to existing models. This led to the Civic Hybrid.

Today, we are announcing the next step. The further expansion and evolution of Honda's hybrid lineup. This fall, Honda will introduce an Accord Hybrid with a newly-developed V6 IMA hybrid system. This new IMA system - combined with VCM - achieves fuel economy on par with the compact Honda Civic. But with power and performance exceeding the excellent acceleration of the current Accord V6 engine. This brings to three the number of Honda Hybrid models, including our two most popular model lines -- Civic and Accord.

As one possible direction for the future - today, you can see the IMAS. Ultra-light and exceptionally aerodynamic, the IMAS concept combines environment-friendly performance with sports-car excitement. After all, this is Honda, so it must be fun to drive!

By investing in hybrid technologies we also learned about electric motor control technologies that we have applied to fuel cell vehicle development. Importantly -- the Honda FCX is still the only fuel cell vehicle certified by the U.S. EPA and CARB - and in use on public roads today.

But we have already advanced to the next step beyond this leadership position. Last fall, we announced the development of Honda's original fuel cell stack. This stack has cold start capabilities in below freezing temperatures. And it is more compact. We are now conducting real world tests on public roads. But, today, we are announcing our plan to introduce an FCX with this original stack in the U.S. and Japan -- in the year 2005.

Just as Honda pioneered and advanced low emission technology and hybrid technology, the goal of these fuel cell vehicle introductions is to gain real world experience. In this way, we advance our knowledge of the strengths and limitations of fuel cell technology for more widespread application in the future.

Today, we have the Kiwami concept where you can see the benefit of Honda's more compact stack technology. Advanced packaging makes possible a lower floor - this enables us to create a roomy interior despite the low roofline.

But Honda is not just developing fuel cell vehicles. We are also taking leadership in the effort to develop a hydrogen fueling infrastructure. This includes a hydrogen station powered by advanced solar cells developed by Honda engineers. And a Home Energy Station that makes hydrogen from natural gas. These concepts represent an important means to reduce CO2 emissions.

This spring, we will begin research with this station and Honda's original stack FCX at our R&D facility in California. And we will conduct real world confirmation in cold climates in states on the East Coast. Through these original efforts, our goal is to contribute to the introduction of a hydrogen refueling infrastructure.

But Honda's commitment to advanced technology is not restricted to the environment. Two months ago, we announced a major expansion of safety technology in all Honda and Acura vehicles by 2006. We made this commitment ahead of the industry-wide program based upon our philosophy of "Safety for Everyone." We believe it is possible to advance both safety and environmental technologies. And, at the same time, make vehicles that are fun-to-drive. We even engineered our fuel cell vehicle to meet or exceed all government safety standards. And everyone who drives it, is surprised by its power.

This type of commitment is also the reason we make vehicles like the Acura NSX and Honda S2000. The production volume is small. But the value is high - both for our customers and for the Honda engineers who develop these vehicles. And that is the thinking behind the HSC concept car that you can see at the Acura stand. This model will serve as the basis for the next generation NSX you will see within a few years. We are committed to achieve the industry best performance - no - rival - exists - for this vehicle.

We believe Honda has a unique role within the industry. This means leading the way in advancing the important areas of safety and the environment. While, at the same time, offering our customers products that are fun to drive. And we will continue to use our strength in developing original technology to provide new and improved mobility for our customers.

This also means traveling new, more challenging roads ahead of others. In this way, Honda will achieve its vision of becoming a company that society wants to exist. Thank you.

I find it very strange that Honda moved NSX production from Togichi to Suzuka only to build a few hundred more cars. It seems like big bucks for limited reward.

The optimist in my wants to believe that empty floorspace in Togichi is being put to good use since the move. Count forward from THAT date, and the new NSX could be closer than NSXtasy thinks. I *think* I vaguely recall seeing a post where someone went to visit Togichi a while ago and was not allowed access to the plant because something confidential was going on.

Anybody remember that? Can't find it with search.

 

[robr]

I doubt this has anything to do with Lexus. When developing a new product, if you wait to see what your competitor has you've already lost. If the Lexus beats whatever Honda is working on, no last minute tweak in the world will help them. They need to shoot for the stars right off the bat and hope that Lexus is only aiming as far as Proxima Centauri.

 

[NSXDreamer2]

I don't think I had ever made any statement in all HSC thread, what can I say, I'm still in love with my 91, and wished that I could get a 02 nsx-r. So yes, I'm partly living in the past.

However, my observation within "prime" is that most people have the mind set that the new nsx had to be scored 120% of what it archieved 15 years ago, IN EVERYWAY. Personally I don't think it's feasible. (Since Public tastes had changed) Yet, whatever is excellent to us, the buyers, (second, third hand buyers to most of us) wasn't right for HONDA. In Smart business perspective, if something failed, it should never be done again. HONDA still surprised me that they kept the nsx for so long as they are one of the most level headed and smart business organizations. I'm only betting the new ground breaking nsx as the Mr. Honda's dream. To me building a ground breaking cars that won't break down yet providing the end-user, us, the best Owner's experience is A DREAM. Yet, to afford to make this dream in a reality is to make/save lots of money else where; (Much like I'm getting a second job And saving any pennys I could pinch, so that I can blow all of them in couple days, to afford my dream: driving nsx on the track, making it looks nicer)

My other point of the Hold Up for so many years is that new rivals cars getting better and better in recent years. With most of them introduced their "hot babies", aka, the top of the hill, CGT, Enzo..., then F430, 997's, Gallardo, Even Merc. SL65 AMG and the Z06. And these guys don't seems like they will bring any new models in for awhile. Don't anyone feel like HONDA seems to figure out where this nsx should stand now? Just like what they did 15 years ago?? I guessed it's proven that it's successful the way the nsx took over the world at the year it introduced (or two), the biggest question HONDA has is to HOW to maintain the demand and momentum.

 

[NSXDreamer2]

When developing a new product, if you wait to see what your competitor has you've already lost.

hence my theory of the long wait, HONDA is smart enough to treak the current nsx or nsx-r so to speak to barely keep up with the competition, yet refuse to bring out their top of the line car as a failure. Thus they killed "the new car" before anyone sees it.

I'm pretty sure they figure out where this new car means to HONDA, and where it should stand now. Or, this is another smog they blew out so that they create a sense of urgency for Toyota and see how Toyota pulls everything together and build that 500hp super car. Then they just introduce their "new nsx" to eat the "new supra" alive, much like 15 years ago.

 

[nsxtasy]

Historically, Honda will not even talk about a vehicle introduction until most of the design are already established.

You may be right about that. But that would make Mike Spencer's statement absolutely untrue (whether knowingly or not). So there's an inconsistency, and we can only guess at the truth between those statements.

The last 2 years prior to launch are to nail down the final design details, manufacturing proces, and product validation. Before you even get to 2 years prior to launch, the primary designs are complete and you already having make shift prototypes running around.

As an example, approx 2 years before the Honda Ridgeline was introduced, Honda was making public statements that they are evalutating whether there will be a Honda truck.
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Honda is now putting the finishing touches on the vehicle and look for it as a MY 07 or 08.
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We didn't hear about public statment from Honda indicating production intent of the S2000 until about 2 years prior to launch.

The two examples you give both have public statements being made about 24 months before launch. If that same time frame applies here (and I'm thinking it is, at a minimum), the car would be launched in Summer 2007 as a 2008 model year car. Which is very possible, and is consistent with the examples you provided. I just can't see it happening sooner than that.

Ken, I hope you know that I was speaking in good fun - I should have used a smiley in my original post.

Of course! But you know I would enjoy the chance to chat with you (and everyone!) at NSXPO 2005, too!

It unrealistic for any commercial passenger car to "destroy" the likes of the new Z06 in terms of acceleration - at the top level of performance, cars are differentiated in terms of a few tenths. Unless Honda is building something like the Bugatti Veyron, then even a 500 hp NSX-II would be in the same performance league as an F430, Z06, Ford GT, GT2, etc.

I agree with all that you say. Still... a car can be "groundbreaking" without blowing away all the other cars around in terms of acceleration. When the NSX was introduced in 1990, it wasn't the fastest car around, and didn't have the highest horsepower, even then*. But it was competitive on both counts. And it was groundbreaking at the time. It was the first user-friendly, reliable exotic. It made the top sports car makers of the time, Ferrari and Porsche, sit up and take notice and realize that they had a long way to go to compete. They did - but it took them years to reach the point where they had a clearly superior product.

I believe Honda can do the same thing now (or in 2007 or whenever). You're right, it's unlikely for any car to come forward with acceleration figures that blow away the competition, especially in this age of 600+ horsepower production cars. But a car can feature a combination of new technologies and features and design (styling as well as ergonomics) that can total up to a package that is acknowledged as "the best sports car in the world".

*I believe the cars that were fastest and had the highest horsepower in the NSX's first year were the ZR-1 Corvette (380 hp, 3465 lbs) and possibly the Porsche 911 Turbo (315 hp, 3274 lbs) or Testarossa, but I'm going from memory and I could be wrong about that.

 

[surferX]

Okay...I just have to say...

YEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!

Damn...it feels good to get that out of my system! I hope the next one comes with Super Handling Super Handling All Wheel Drive (SH-SH-AWD). It looks like it's time to start hiding away that deposit money. :smile: :biggrin: :smile:

 

[Ko-nsx]

I dont get what all the hooplah is about, most people cant afford to drive the 20,000 to 30,000 NSX whats the rush for Honda to put out a new one for at least 70,000? You are driving a great engineered car today, why be concerned with tomorrow. No denying that there are more than a few cars that outperform the NSX, but the sum of its (NSX) parts are greater than the whole. Honda will do what Honda will do regardless of how many Prime members say they have the check ready for the new "NSX" or "HSC"


jmo

Armando

:wink: true,true

 

[MoreRPMs]

Honda probably hasn't been sitting on their ass for the last several years. I'm sure they had some test vehicles with various engine /drivetrain configuration being evaluated. Remember during the NSX development there were V12 running around and Honda later determined it hampered handling. Point is, I believe Honda has already defined the engine and the drive train configuation.

Totally agree.

Wasn't the New Sportscar- X shown as an almost-finished concept at Chicago in February of '89? And what happened not even 2 years later...introduction and sale of the new car.

I've got a hard time believing that the HSC was designed and built with a 300 or so hp V6 from the beginning, and then everyone in charge at Honda realized "Oops, we're first an engine comany, and this isn't groundbreaking at all. This isn't even good enough to put in our flagship sedan, let alone our 'super sportscar'". It's all a damn smokescreen.

To me, groundbreaking these days can't be aluminum (spaceframe, or not). It can't be carbon fiber. It can't be some ultraweight 2000 pounder stripped to the bare floor. Those have all been covered. They've gotta have something power-wise up their sleeves. Next year grand prix cars will have redlines around 20,000; hopefully something of that nature will really trickle down: if 9k was high in '99, maybe 10,500 4.5 liter V10 is the realistic goal. Where else can the standard be set, if not in the engine department. Does anyone else have a guess as to where/how they can break the kind of ground they did 15 years ago?
Please God, just don't let it be some AWD hybrid 3600 lb. pig. Then I'l have to go out and spend $20k less for a skyline GT-R.

 

[SugrueNSX]

Sorry if this has already been asked but, typically how long does it take Honda to go from concept to design to prototype to testing to tooling up and full production?

Thanks,

Patrick

 

[timothyaw]

... navigation system, etc...

Heated seats....

C'mon would we REALLY need this in a sports car

Get a Lexus or an RL for that stuff. Let's stick to the real basis for a sports car. The current NSX interior UPDATED would do just fine!

 

[NSXROX]

Wonder what discontinuing the NSX will do to parts availability in the future. How much longer do you think Honda will keep making parts for the NSX?

 

[NetViper]

C'mon would we REALLY need this in a sports car

Get a Lexus or an RL for that stuff. Let's stick to the real basis for a sports car. The current NSX interior UPDATED would do just fine!

I will never understand why the Nav system was not offered in the USA? How long has it been a factory option in Japan???

 

[nsxtasy]

Wasn't the New Sportscar- X shown as an almost-finished concept at Chicago in February of '89? And what happened not even 2 years later...introduction and sale of the new car.

True. But that car was almost production ready. The changes made during the intervening 18 months were minimal. We haven't seen a production-ready ("almost finished") concept car yet. It's very clear that the drivetrain of the HSC was not really ready at the time they were dragging it around.

typically how long does it take Honda to go from concept to design to prototype to testing to tooling up and full production?

Development cycle times have been shortened throughout the industry. Most all-new models (rather than using an existing drivetrain etc) typically require a minimum of three years these days. The key question is how far along in the development cycle they are. And all of us are only guessing, based on the public statements and what they have shown of the HSC (which may or may not be the new model).

 

[len3.8]

True. But that car was almost production ready. The changes made during the intervening 18 months were minimal. We haven't seen a production-ready ("almost finished") concept car yet. It's very clear that the drivetrain of the HSC was not really ready at the time they were dragging it around.

Development cycle times have been shortened throughout the industry. Most all-new models (rather than using an existing drivetrain etc) typically require a minimum of three years these days. The key question is how far along in the development cycle they are. And all of us are only guessing, based on the public statements and what they have shown of the HSC (which may or may not be the new model).

As we are all guessing, As Honda is so guarded with any and all information, they could also be poised to rush into production a model that they already have ready for production. They could have actually further developed the drive trains of other new models (Ridgeline, RL) as the power plant and drive train for their next Super Car. (HSC I'm hedging.) I would be willing to bet that it is very near production and they can drop it on the market within 12 to 18 months.

Though facts and past actions as well as industry standards support Ken's suggestions, they may be ready to drop a huge surprise on the market... I mean I really don't see them in the Catch up mode on this car. It's not really the same situation as they were presented with in the late 80's.
They have a basis to benchmark from that was within their own design house.

I still wouldn't be surprised to see them come up with something in the Z06 price range, that blows away the cars that are/ that will be commanding 120K and up. I mean those cars are not really what drive the Market... They may be the Desire of the market, but they are not the cars that are sold in mass quantities.

I would think that Honda would build something that will sell to the masses of new and young $$$$'s... There is so much of it out there and they don't seem to have a preference for loyalty... It really seems, to me, to be fad driven. This could work in Honda's favor... Not being the company of choice for the older purist that feels that the name is not synonymous to sports cars.

I think it would be an opportune time to establish themselves as an alternate purchase for the Z06... It is not an alternative for the 430, Gallardo, 997TT, because those cars are regarded as status symbols, and have a MUCH larger following...

I don't care if the new Car costs 100K and has 550HP; it is not going to be regarded as a replacement purchase (In significant numbers) for the cars that NSX owners and others have decided to be competition... The last 15 years have shown Honda and all others that. Period... So would you really market to that Demography? Why not just slaughter the market below that? Fill that Niche right below and right above the 350Z and the like. Take on the Core vehicle that is considered America’s premier sports car... Just my thoughts.

On Honda offering the car to Customers that purchased the NSX new vs. others that own the NSX... I think that if Honda were to do this, they would go with those that have purchased the cars new in the recent years... Those that have used their Service facilities on a regular Basis. The dealers usually provide the names of the customers to Honda, Porsche ect. Simply by them having access to the service data, parts data, purchase data. USED car purchasers are definitely within their Market. I became a new P-car owner simply because Porsche decided that they were going to market to me. I was in their Dealership database for service and parts orders... So I became a member of their selective marketing... I got mailers, mags, promotional info as well as invites to unveilings and to actually drive new vehicles... It paid off for them; I purchased anew vehicle, as well as 3 more of my friends that have never owned the mark... I don't think it's a stretch to think that Honda would go after used car purchasers if they were going to market this way... A new car Purchaser from the 90's is no more of value, in respect to representing a sale of a new car, than a person that has bought a new car... Unless that person has used their dealerships as a provider of service and parts since purchasing the car in 1990. :smile: That person would/should definitely be first on any marketing teams Demography. But the person that has bought the used car is the Market to capitalize on, make no mistake about it... They would be a primary demography.

I hope they make something exciting, throw the cost thing out the window. Give me a low cost high performance vehicle that can be driven daily and recreationally, reliable, and aesthetically pleasing... I would be all over it. Just like the USED NSX that I purchased... You see, you have to look at the car as a hole and how it sold, it sold much better as a used vehicle that represents an extreme value for the dollars... Honda benefited very little from this. Why not switch up and capitalize on it?

Again Just An Opinion (JAO)

 

[steveny]

Problem is, I want another Ferrari car from Honda. Not a Porsche or a Lexus or a Jag, a Ferrari; an exotic, except reliable, driveable, liveable.

From the tone of your post I think you may have forgotten affordable.

I agree with much of what you said. I find it hard to believe Acura will be able to build a competative car and price it at the same great deal as the first NSX. If Acura can build a exotic which is as good as the current NSX but with modern styling and big HP and still offer the great price/lease deals of the current NSX I am sure they will sell a ton of them. If the price is in the 100k-150k mark I am not so sure many would sell.

 

[nsxtasy]

As we are all guessing

Yes, we are. And, since we're guessing, anyone's guess is as good as anyone else's. (But my guess is that Mike Spencer's guess is better than anyone's outside the company. )

On Honda offering the car to Customers that purchased the NSX new vs. others that own the NSX...

Realistically, I think this is a car for which Honda would like to sell as many as they can. I highly doubt that production or availability will be limited to anyone specific (such as previous buyers of new NSXs or used NSXs rather than the general public).

And, if you want the first one at your dealer, that will likely be controlled by your dealer, not by Honda. If you want to be first, any particular dealership may be willing to take deposits any time they want (just as I put my deposit down in 1986 or thereabouts). And they might charge you an arm and a leg extra for the first one, or they might not.

I'm just hoping they do what BMW has done in the past with their BMW CCA marque club, and they offer discounts on car purchases to members of the NSX Club of America.

 

[White92]

If the price is in the 100k-150k mark I am not so sure many would sell.

I'm sure Steve would buy 2 or 3 of them at that price. :smile:

 

[len3.8]

Yes, we are. And, since we're guessing, anyone's guess is as good as anyone else's. (But my guess is that Mike Spencer's guess is better than anyone's outside the company. )



Acura plans a replacement high-performance vehicle but won't say when, what or how much. "The car's under development, but it's not right around the corner, in the immediate future," Spencer says.

Still very Vague. He could be or not playing the company game. :wink:
We will only know who guessed correctly when we are able to look back on this post after Honda releases whatever, whenever.

I think the highly secretive stuff is getting old. (I truly could care less what they put out. I am keeping the one I have.) With their loyal following and prior sales of this vehicle's predecessor :frown: They should be marketing the Hell out of it. Have it sold before it hits the floor so to speak. Dare I say GM and the "Damn Nice" C6-Z06. They will sell all of their initial production quickly... Depreciation, build quality, appearance, whatever... whomever buys it will have a very nice sportscar. And it will be very hard to match it's performance and price point.

 

[Patdeisa]

Wonder what discontinuing the NSX will do to parts availability in the future. How much longer do you think Honda will keep making parts for the NSX?

If I'm not mistaken, you can still buy OEM parts for any Honda ever made. I'd need to do a bit of digging to find out where I read that...

 

[Mpire]

If honda does anything, they will do something similar to what they did 15 years ago. They will take the new RL drivetrain with AWD and build a light car around it. Expect some mild tuning on the engine, but other than that, thats the only powertrain they are going to use. Honda is way too cheap to make a V8 engine for just one car.

 

[swbatte]

If honda does anything, they will do something similar to what they did 15 years ago. They will take the new RL drivetrain with AWD and build a light car around it. Expect some mild tuning on the engine, but other than that, thats the only powertrain they are going to use. Honda is way too cheap to make a V8 engine for just one car.

Are they? What other all aluminum chasis VTEC V6 powered cars did they have out in 1991? :wink:

 

[White92]

If honda does anything, they will do something similar to what they did 15 years ago. They will take the new RL drivetrain with AWD and build a light car around it. Expect some mild tuning on the engine, but other than that, thats the only powertrain they are going to use. Honda is way too cheap to make a V8 engine for just one car.

I have to disagree as well. There aren't any other cars out there using the NSX engine.

 

[ChrisK]

If honda does anything, they will do something similar to what they did 15 years ago. They will take the new RL drivetrain with AWD and build a light car around it. Expect some mild tuning on the engine, but other than that, thats the only powertrain they are going to use. Honda is way too cheap to make a V8 engine for just one car.

You know. The direction Honda seemed to be headed in the mid/late 90s I might have agreed with you at that time. However, things are starting to turn around for Honda/Acura. It's like they woke up. Also, I truely believe there is no way they will use the current RL engine. Why? Because that J series engine is already 8 years old in 2005. Why in the world would Honda put a 10 year old engine design for a brand new sports car release a couple years from now? IMHO, the J series engines are nearing the end of its life. It might go for a few more years in the Accord and TL, but they will be coming out with a new engine soon I believe. I have no proof though.

 

[NSXrebel]

True. But that car was almost production ready. The changes made during the intervening 18 months were minimal. We haven't seen a production-ready ("almost finished") concept car yet. It's very clear that the drivetrain of the HSC was not really ready at the time they were dragging it around.

Development cycle times have been shortened throughout the industry. Most all-new models (rather than using an existing drivetrain etc) typically require a minimum of three years these days. The key question is how far along in the development cycle they are. And all of us are only guessing, based on the public statements and what they have shown of the HSC (which may or may not be the new model).

If they were to use the HSC platform, who's to say that it wasn't/isn't production-ready. They did have video of the HSC being tested/driven.
Maybe they have other drivetrain configurations being tested also , just like the NS-X did prior to its launch. If that were the case, we could see a new Honda sportscar sooner than you think.

 

[White92]

How long would it take to retool the factory? I wonder how long they've already been retooling the factory without anybody knowing.