NSX 2.0 Positives

[krea.tion]

I'd like to see the look on the faces of Ted Klaus and his NSX engine development team when you tell them their new hybrid driveline needs a "proper tune".
I can imagine a room full of engineers, some of whom undoubtedly have F1 engine experience, surrounded by engine dynos, and millions of $ in equipment with a foolish look on their faces, thinking how did they do such a poor job?

Do you really think you can improve on the intake and exhaust tuning, timing, direct injection pulses?
Or how your new and improved torque curve, that the engineers somehow missed in their testing, will work in concert with 9 gears and three electric motors.

Perhaps you are thinking about a traditional turbo engines where you up the boost, get more power, and away you go.
I think those days are gone with these new technologies

You have this all wrong. When you are a company as big as Honda you have to take some seriously conservative precautions whenever you develop a vehicle. Regardless of F1 experience or any engineering prowess, every vehicle out there is built with an adequate safety net in terms of tuning. Do you think Nissan engineers were wow'd and surprised that relatively small tuning houses were able to pull 75+hp from a simple canned tune and midpipe on the GT-R? No, of course not. The beautiful thing with turbocharging is that you can leave a lot on the table in terms of maximizing power output.

 

[Ponyboy]

^ this.

Honda is likely going to tune the new NSX conservatively. I'm sure, over the course of time, the tuning shops will be able to extract a significant boost in power. Hopefully and I think they have, Honda has learned that lack of updates hurt the sales and competitiveness of the previous NSX and will update this one more regularly.

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

As a new owner of a C7 Z, I know all too well about the conservative factory tune. In fact, most bone stock Z's are showing more than 680 hp on the dyno.

I can't wait to get my hands on the new NSX! It should be a huge upgrade from the C7 Z.

 

[JD Cross]

You have this all wrong. When you are a company as big as Honda you have to take some seriously conservative precautions whenever you develop a vehicle. Regardless of F1 experience or any engineering prowess, every vehicle out there is built with an adequate safety net in terms of tuning. Do you think Nissan engineers were wow'd and surprised that relatively small tuning houses were able to pull 75+hp from a simple canned tune and midpipe on the GT-R? No, of course not. The beautiful thing with turbocharging is that you can leave a lot on the table in terms of maximizing power output.

I guess what I'm trying to say and not very well is that I see a difference in tuning the hybrid performance cars.
It's not about whether Honda or Nissan is offering a conservative power output or not.
We all know they will be conservative and can likely update the output over time.
Before the hybrids you could tune an engine as a stand alone power source.

With the hybrids I don't think you can do that anymore.
The NSX turbocharged gas engine is not a stand alone power unit any more.
It's part of a four part motive system.
Each of the four power sources has to work in concert with the other.

Question that come to mind are:
If you increase boost and raise the gas engine power and torque curve higher in the rpm band what effect does that have on the total (electric and gas) torque curve?
Do you end up with a higher output top end but a torque hole in the midrange?
Does a change in exhaust effect this?

The companies that understand the blending of multi engine high performance torque systems are few.
Mercedes, Renault, Ferrari from their F1 experience, Porsche from the 918, McLaren with the P1, and now Honda.

The NSX has traditionally been about balance between power, weight, braking, cornering and so on.
I'll presume the new NSX will be tuned by Honda to offer a balanced power package as opposed to a maximum power package.
The tuning of each driveline component will be in some kind of balance with the other.
I think the use of a 9 speed transmission is a clue in all this.

The reason I think the Honda driveline engineers would take issue with a comment about a "proper tune" is their work has centered on tuning a whole system not just a turbocharged engine.

I'm not saying there isn't more power available from the gas engine. There always is.
I just don't think it's as simplistic as turning up the boost
I think you have to tune the whole drive system.

In time aftermarkets tuners will undoubtedly be able to extract more from the total system.
Their customers may not care about reliability or longevity, only quicker numbers.
And Honda is not in that business.

 

[BB]

I was concerned that the excessive amount of metal in the interior was merely plastic with a coating on it, similar to all other current Acuras. But according to this interview with the car's interior designer the metal pieces are actually the support structure of the dash exposed as a design element. So it sounds like they are real aluminum and actually serve a functional purpose.

 

[Olyar15]

One aspect of the interior that nobody has mentioned is: where the heck is the power plug (cigarette lighter)? Don't see it on the dash. I'm really hoping it is located on the headliner, since that would be perfect for radar detectors and dash cams.

 

[BB]

One aspect of the interior that nobody has mentioned is: where the heck is the power plug (cigarette lighter)? Don't see it on the dash. I'm really hoping it is located on the headliner, since that would be perfect for radar detectors and dash cams.

My guess is that it has both a cigarette style power plug and USB hidden inside the center console armrest area, the same as other new Acuras. If you look at the interior photos it appears they've provided a place right behind the transmission buttons to lay your mobile phone that would angle your phone's screen towards the driver.

I would love to see a power connector provided in the headliner, but I highly doubt there is one. The only reason someone would want one in the headliner (or near the front of the dash) is for a radar detector. I cannot see Honda choosing to put one there just for this purpose. With more and more devices using USB power the 12V cigarette adapter is increasing seen as a legacy connector.

I'm glad to see they made the cup holders optional and not visible otherwise. That parallelogram shaped pop-out on the passenger side of the center console is for affixing a cup holder. Much better looking then the R8's permanently built in cup holders.

 

[Olyar15]

Well, given that the V1 uses a cigarette port and many dashcams also use that port, I think it would still be useful to have such a port on the headliner. And since you can get a USB plug that fits in the cigarette lighter, you can kill 2 birds with one stone.

 

[krea.tion]

I guess what I'm trying to say and not very well is that I see a difference in tuning the hybrid performance cars.
It's not about whether Honda or Nissan is offering a conservative power output or not.
We all know they will be conservative and can likely update the output over time.
Before the hybrids you could tune an engine as a stand alone power source.

With the hybrids I don't think you can do that anymore.
The NSX turbocharged gas engine is not a stand alone power unit any more.
It's part of a four part motive system.
Each of the four power sources has to work in concert with the other.

Question that come to mind are:
If you increase boost and raise the gas engine power and torque curve higher in the rpm band what effect does that have on the total (electric and gas) torque curve?
Do you end up with a higher output top end but a torque hole in the midrange?
Does a change in exhaust effect this?

The companies that understand the blending of multi engine high performance torque systems are few.
Mercedes, Renault, Ferrari from their F1 experience, Porsche from the 918, McLaren with the P1, and now Honda.

The NSX has traditionally been about balance between power, weight, braking, cornering and so on.
I'll presume the new NSX will be tuned by Honda to offer a balanced power package as opposed to a maximum power package.
The tuning of each driveline component will be in some kind of balance with the other.
I think the use of a 9 speed transmission is a clue in all this.

The reason I think the Honda driveline engineers would take issue with a comment about a "proper tune" is their work has centered on tuning a whole system not just a turbocharged engine.

I'm not saying there isn't more power available from the gas engine. There always is.
I just don't think it's as simplistic as turning up the boost
I think you have to tune the whole drive system.

In time aftermarkets tuners will undoubtedly be able to extract more from the total system.
Their customers may not care about reliability or longevity, only quicker numbers.
And Honda is not in that business.

I think you are overthinking it too much. I get what your saying. Its my motto: balance in all things. But as long as the car is well-equipped with the hardware to handle more power, turning up the boost is a simple and effective way of increasing power throughout the entire rev range when the turbos are pressurized. Even though the added power would only be applied to the rear wheels, I doubt balance would be compromised much as long as the front electric motors are working. It would certainly be more prone to throttle induced oversteer but thats never a bad thing imo

 

[BB]

I noticed Acura has said nothing about the stereo. Will it be their ELS system, Bose like the original NSX, or something entirely different? The ELS sounds better than most cars, but it is definitely not a high end sounding system. I think the NSX should have something better than the mediocre ELS. Bose is utterly terrible, please not that!!

 

[Olyar15]

Audio system will most likely have a few options, allowing one to order a higher-end system for more bucks.

 

[N Spec]

My guess is that it has both a cigarette style power plug and USB hidden inside the center console armrest area, the same as other new Acuras. If you look at the interior photos it appears they've provided a place right behind the transmission buttons to lay your mobile phone that would angle your phone's screen towards the driver.

I would love to see a power connector provided in the headliner, but I highly doubt there is one. The only reason someone would want one in the headliner (or near the front of the dash) is for a radar detector. I cannot see Honda choosing to put one there just for this purpose. With more and more devices using USB power the 12V cigarette adapter is increasing seen as a legacy connector.

I'm glad to see they made the cup holders optional and not visible otherwise. That parallelogram shaped pop-out on the passenger side of the center console is for affixing a cup holder. Much better looking then the R8's permanently built in cup holders.

That's a good catch. I didn't notice the cupholders. It's a much more sophisticated approach than a circle or two in the center console. I still don't understand the need for one in sports car or cars in general honestly as I prefer bottles with caps over paper cups with... But that's just me.

I am mostly disappointed in the limited rear visibility. It seems the NSX has truly entered exotic territory with this aspect... The first gen's visibility is one of the best 360 views ever with minimal blind spots. That is on aspect I prefer to rely on real time versus electronics beeping to tell me there's a car in my blind spot when merging...

 

[JD Cross]

I think you are overthinking it too much.

Without a doubt you are correct.:smile:

 

[lucky]

I think that if that interior was all black it would really change the look to be more harmonious.. remember the red interior from the concept in 2013 was a crimson and much more subtle contrast... still loving the car as a whole and a semigloss(leather) then matte (alcantera) would look the bomb... colour palette wise it would also tie to the aluminum as well.. now add some red stitching and that is a nice accent...
getting one of the later Gen 1 with the colour keyed interiors was risky at the least and very very subjective.
for me that bright red is just a wee too sharp (I understand they needed to make an eye-catching statement for the launch and needed to differentiate it from the 2013 concept) still well done honda..

 

[JD Cross]

This might show us what's possible from the new NSX engine.
http://jalopnik.com/jim-glickenhauss-scg003c-has-the-same-engine-as-the-201-1679941390

 

[1K2GO]

I guess what I'm trying to say and not very well is that I see a difference in tuning the hybrid performance cars.
It's not about whether Honda or Nissan is offering a conservative power output or not.
We all know they will be conservative and can likely update the output over time.
Before the hybrids you could tune an engine as a stand alone power source.

With the hybrids I don't think you can do that anymore.
The NSX turbocharged gas engine is not a stand alone power unit any more.
It's part of a four part motive system.
Each of the four power sources has to work in concert with the other.

Question that come to mind are:
If you increase boost and raise the gas engine power and torque curve higher in the rpm band what effect does that have on the total (electric and gas) torque curve?
Do you end up with a higher output top end but a torque hole in the midrange?
Does a change in exhaust effect this?

The companies that understand the blending of multi engine high performance torque systems are few.
Mercedes, Renault, Ferrari from their F1 experience, Porsche from the 918, McLaren with the P1, and now Honda.

The NSX has traditionally been about balance between power, weight, braking, cornering and so on.
I'll presume the new NSX will be tuned by Honda to offer a balanced power package as opposed to a maximum power package.
The tuning of each driveline component will be in some kind of balance with the other.
I think the use of a 9 speed transmission is a clue in all this.

The reason I think the Honda driveline engineers would take issue with a comment about a "proper tune" is their work has centered on tuning a whole system not just a turbocharged engine.

I'm not saying there isn't more power available from the gas engine. There always is.
I just don't think it's as simplistic as turning up the boost
I think you have to tune the whole drive system.

In time aftermarkets tuners will undoubtedly be able to extract more from the total system.
Their customers may not care about reliability or longevity, only quicker numbers.
And Honda is not in that business.

You used 8 paragraphs reiterating what I stated in 1 sentence. I accept your apology :tongue::wink:

Rest assured, tuners like Shad, Cody, SOS etc will find more power. They may have to sacrifice some long term reliability & flexibility, but they will find it. Tuners gonna tune, haters gonna hate...

 

[AdvansCPAP]

I like it. I like it allot! To me, if it looks that good in the photos, it will look incredible in person. I can see in my head the potential it has in many ways. Not everyone wants a super exotic looking car. I don't. I like the turbo's and electric motors in it. Plenty of easy power and torque to extract from. I loved the concept's interior, but can see the production interior looking great as well. With some color changes and carbon trim taking place of the silver, it would look very nice and subtle. The car fits right in between regular sports car and an exotic. Just enough. Just right. Can't wait to see one parked in my garage! Counting my pennies now.

 

[SebringSilver]

Has anyone seen info about the underbody? I hope it's completely enclosed like it is on other modern high end sports cars for the purpose of improved air governance and cooling.

 

[N Spec]

Has anyone seen info about the underbody? I hope it's completely enclosed like it is on other modern high end sports cars for the purpose of improved air governance and cooling.

http://youtu.be/4FS9ukvvWN0

You can get a slight peak of the underbody early in the interview. It looks like everything is tightly covered. Good interview too actually.

 

[BB]

I like it. I like it allot! To me, if it looks that good in the photos, it will look incredible in person. I can see in my head the potential it has in many ways. Not everyone wants a super exotic looking car. I don't. I like the turbo's and electric motors in it. Plenty of easy power and torque to extract from. I loved the concept's interior, but can see the production interior looking great as well. With some color changes and carbon trim taking place of the silver, it would look very nice and subtle. The car fits right in between regular sports car and an exotic. Just enough. Just right. Can't wait to see one parked in my garage! Counting my pennies now.

+1. On a scale of exotic-ness the new NSX splits the difference between the pedestrian looking 911 and the more flashy 458. The R8 attempts to fit into this middle space too, but it ends up looking far too plain and ordinary. When you consider the whole package including looks, reliability, and technology there is currently nothing else that would compete with the the new NSX for $150,000. If performance actually matches what everyone is expecting, then the only major shortcoming of the the car will be its lessor badge prestige.

- - - Updated - - -

http://youtu.be/4FS9ukvvWN0

You can get a slight peak of the underbody early in the interview. It looks like everything is tightly covered. Good interview too actually.

In this interview Ted confirms that the car actually has a rear trunk that can hold a couple small suitcases. There is no front trunk. I am glad to hear this as it means the car will likely be more practical than most of its competitors.

He also says the car has very limited range in full EV mode. I suspect it's like the RLX Hybrid which can be driven gingerly only a mile or two in EV mode since pushing down the accelerator pedal harder will automatically cause the V6 to fire up.

 

[SebringSilver]

http://youtu.be/4FS9ukvvWN0

You can get a slight peak of the underbody early in the interview. It looks like everything is tightly covered. Good interview too actually.

Thanks for that. Interesting that the trunk space is still at the back. I thought there was talk about a convertible version for later on down the product life cycle. Would like to see how they'd stow the soft or hard top AND still keep the rear trunk space.

- - - Updated - - -

+1. On a scale of exotic-ness the new NSX splits the difference between the pedestrian looking 911 and the more flashy 458. The R8 attempts to fit into this middle space too, but it ends up looking far too plain and ordinary. When you consider the whole package including looks, reliability, and technology there is currently nothing else that would compete with the the new NSX for $150,000. If performance actually matches what everyone is expecting, then the only major shortcoming of the the car will be its lessor badge prestige.

- - - Updated - - -



In this interview Ted confirms that the car actually has a rear trunk that can hold a couple small suitcases. There is no front trunk. I am glad to hear this as it means the car will likely be more practical than most of its competitors.

He also says the car has very limited range in full EV mode. I suspect it's like the RLX Hybrid which can be driven gingerly only a mile or two in EV mode since pushing down the accelerator pedal harder will automatically cause the V6 to fire up.

Don't really get why people knock on the R8. The design is now over 7 years old but has aged gracefully and I still get tons of attention and double takes when I drive mine down the road. In fact, if not for the success Audi has had with the R8, Honda would not have the confidence to bring the NSX back. I'm definitely keeping my R8 V10, and will make the new NSX its stablemate. Nothing like having the two best everyday supercars ever made.

 

[2slow2speed]

Don't really get why people knock on the R8. The design is now over 7 years old but has aged gracefully and I still get tons of attention and double takes when I drive mine down the road. In fact, if not for the success Audi has had with the R8, Honda would not have the confidence to bring the NSX back. I'm definitely keeping my R8 V10, and will make the new NSX its stablemate. Nothing like having the two best everyday supercars ever made.

+1, well said.

I could never understand how much hate some NSX owners have for other cars like the R8. I've seen plenty of them around and they never cease to impress me, the first thought that always crosses my mind is German Exotic (kind of like the same reaction that I've had after seeing a Porsche CGT's or 918's)

 

[whiteNSXs]

Don't really get why people knock on the R8. The design is now over 7 years old but has aged gracefully and I still get tons of attention and double takes when I drive mine down the road. In fact, if not for the success Audi has had with the R8, Honda would not have the confidence to bring the NSX back. I'm definitely keeping my R8 V10, and will make the new NSX its stablemate. Nothing like having the two best everyday supercars ever made.

R8 is a gorgeous car. It is a very 3 dimensional car and people need to know how to photograph to bring out the look. In real life, it is jaw-dropping. It was on my bucket list for the longest time. But with the new NSX, I can now cross it out as I want a true DCT equipped AWD car. I do have three 1/18 R8 models. In fact, with this NSX 2.0, all of a sudden, all the cars on my bucket list became irrelevant. The list included the R8, 458, MP4, and the 991 Turbo.
Steve

 

[SebringSilver]

R8 is a gorgeous car. It is a very 3 dimensional car and people need to know how to photograph to bring out the look. In real life, it is jaw-dropping. It was on my bucket list for the longest time. But with the new NSX, I can now cross it out as I want a true DCT equipped AWD car. I do have three 1/18 R8 models. In fact, with this NSX 2.0, all of a sudden, all the cars on my bucket list became irrelevant. The list included the R8, 458, MP4, and the 991 Turbo.
Steve

You, sir, have excellent taste in cars. I've driven all the cars on your list and they're all exceptional. The thing that astonishes me the most about all those cars is their ability to provide impossibly high levels of grip and handling while offering ride comfort and compliance. The great irony of course is that they're all paying homage to the original NSX by making supercar performance accessible like never before, and now the new NSX will be tasked with raising the bar once more.

By the way, newer S-tronic R8s do indeed offer a 7-speed dual clutch gearbox.

 

[BB]

Don't really get why people knock on the R8. The design is now over 7 years old but has aged gracefully and I still get tons of attention and double takes when I drive mine down the road. In fact, if not for the success Audi has had with the R8, Honda would not have the confidence to bring the NSX back. I'm definitely keeping my R8 V10, and will make the new NSX its stablemate. Nothing like having the two best everyday supercars ever made.

I don't dislike the R8. I even considered buying one at one point. Overall it's a nice car. What really bugged me about the car were Audi's poor reputation for reliability and the high cost of parts. Since I tend to keep cars for a long time I don't feel comfortable venturing down that path.

The other major area that bugged me was how plain the R8 styling looked. While I felt it looked very clean and stylish, it just didn't excite me that much. It really feels and looks like a high end Audi sedan that morphed upward into a higher end sports car, whereas the NSX has always felt more like a Ferrari that was brought down to earth by Honda. While both car's aim for roughly the same destination, their starting points are different.

This difference shows up in areas like the front cowl. The NSX hood line and dash are noticeably lower with a larger front windshield, providing a more exotic seating position similar to that of a 12C. By contrast the R8 has a higher hood line and front dash that's more akin to an Audi sedan.

The same attitude carries over into exterior styling. The R8 is a car that a junior executive would feel comfortable driving to the office since the more conservative exterior largely fits in with his peer's Audi sedans. The same cannot be said of the original or new NSX, both of which have less conservative exterior styling. If our junior executive were to show up in an NSX (or even worse a 458), his peers might begin to question his judgement as he clearly doesn't have the correct sense of aesthetics and knowledge as to what someone in his position in life ought to be driving! Perhaps he isn't one of us? Perhaps he doesn't belong here? The situation is analogous to the teenage girl who chooses to leave her hair curly while 100% of her peers straighten their hair every day.

For an upper middle class professional choosing Audi neatly avoids all this. You can start with a cheap A3 and work your way up to the A8. No mater what Audi you upgrade to, all the cars look nearly the same to the uninitiated. So when you finally upgrade your cheap A3 to that $100,000+ RS8 few will feel envious, thus helping you to avoid the egalitarian guilt that all thoughtful upper middle class white people feel today. But those with knowledge will notice the subtle "RS" badge on your RS8 and immediately recognize the German engineering excellence it represents, thus confirming your good taste and status. Vorsprung durch Technik!

To help others build their knowledge, I am providing a chart outlining the subtle differences between the various Audi models. Study it carefully....

In my opinion much of the criticism directed at the R8 is actually an expression of skepticism towards the seemingly irrational/emotional popularity of the Audi brand and not so much the R8 itself. Likewise I've noticed much of the criticism directed at the new NSX (not here but elsewhere) appears to be due to skepticism towards Acura as a brand.