New ammo law - California

[Cragar]

Schwarzenegger signs ammo-regulation bill

Bob Egelko, Chronicle Staff Writer


(10-12) 18:28 PDT SACRAMENTO -- People buying ammunition in California will soon have to be thumbprinted and dealers will have to keep records of sales, under legislation that Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger signed into law.

After vetoing similar bills three times since 2004, Schwarzenegger signed AB962 by Assemblyman Kevin de León, D-Los Angeles, on Sunday, saying he now believes it will promote public safety.

The measure is California's first statewide regulation of ammunition sales. It survived close votes in both the Assembly and state Senate and strong opposition from gun-rights organizations, which succeeded in stripping a provision that would have required sellers of more than 50 rounds of ammunition a month to be licensed by the state.

Starting in July, the law will require dealers to keep records of handgun ammunition sales for at least five years, and store the bullets securely out of customers' reach.

Like gun transactions, all ammunition sales will have to be face-to-face, a requirement that will force online buyers to arrange delivery of ammunition to a seller in California. Another provision makes it a crime to knowingly sell or give ammunition to someone who cannot possess it legally, including felons, gang members and the mentally ill.

As of February 2011, all ammunition buyers will have to provide a driver's license or other state identification and a thumbprint.

De León said Monday that the bill gives police "a valuable tool to crack down on armed, dangerous criminals and gang-bangers in our communities."

Opponents said the restrictions would burden gun owners and dealers without impeding criminals.

"Ammunition or ammunition purchaser registration, in any form, serves only to infringe upon the rights of law-abiding citizens," Gun Owners of California said while the bill was before the Legislature.

In signing the bill, Schwarzenegger said local governments that require record-keeping for ammunition sales have enabled police to arrest many illegal purchasers. Governments that regulate ammunition sales include San Francisco, Oakland, Tiburon and Contra Costa and Marin counties.

"Utilized properly, this type of information is invaluable for keeping communities safe," Schwarzenegger said.

E-mail Bob Egelko at [email protected].

This article appeared on page C - 4 of the San Francisco Chronicle

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/10/13/BA551A4M82.DTL#ixzz0TrTkiCKc


This is a stupid law. Gang-bangers will just bootleg ammo in from other states.

This law will also not last very long. A few years ago they tried something similar by requiring to keep records of all ammo sales. I knew of quite a few people who would purposely go to K-Mart and buy 1 box of .22LR ( 50 rounds - for 99 cents ) EVERY day , sometimes twice a day. The BATF was SO clogged with paperwork within 3 months it would have taken 5 years to file all the paperwork. That law got repealed quick.

 

[passline]

This law sucks! Bootleg ammo is dangerous. I used to shoot at a range in Richmond where they made you buy their ammo to use there. This was how they made more money for use of the range. After having my Sig .380 jam three times using sub-standard casings, I would throw out the box that they would sell me and use my own Remington. Sig Sauer tolerances are so exact, they rarely jam with good ammo.

 

[Alittleboost]

This law sucks! Bootleg ammo is dangerous. I used to shoot at a range in Richmond where they made you buy their ammo to use there. This was how they made more money for use of the range. After having my Sig .380 jam three times using sub-standard casings, I would throw out the box that they would sell me and use my own Remington. Sig Sauer tolerances are so exact, they rarely jam with good ammo.

Man I guess all the hype was true, Luckily I caught the guy stalking up at wal-mart a while back and pulled out the plastic and cleared the whole shelf....it sucked because the worker said there is one guy who just goes to all the wal-marts and buys all the ammo to sell online, fu*kin prick The worker said he couldn't wait until the man walked in and there is no more .45 and .40 left...:biggrin:

I guess I'll be ok for a couple more range sessions....it will be hell now trying to buy ammo!

And I agree with Passline, my sig 229 never jammed up with decent ammo.

 

[queenlives]

why not just load your own ammo?

 

[e.pie]

ammo sales in the surrounding states is about the go through the roof

good job lawmakers

 

[Cragar]

why not just load your own ammo?

Dillon RB550 works for me.


I have way too much ammo.....Time to go make some more , can never have too much ammo.

 

[passline]

Dillon RB550 works for me.


I have way too much ammo.....Time to go make some more , can never have too much ammo.

Militia Time? ..... and Miller too!

 

[Cragar]

Check.

Mental note - Need to stock up on beer. :wink:

 

[davidf]

ammo sales in the surrounding states is about the go through the roof

good job lawmakers

It's already though the damn roof compared to a few years back.:frown:

 

[Russ]

Thanks Arnold, for reminding everyone there's not a damn's worth of difference between Republicans and Democrats.

What's troubling is that now, other state legislatures will be emboldened to follow California.

 

[Deltron Zero]

Why is California so stupid?

 

[sahtt]

Come on guys, how else is the government going to know who to "visit" when the time comes? Better behave yourselves fellow peons, you are being monitored.

 

[alum04org]

Thanks Arnold, for reminding everyone there's not a damn's worth of difference between Republicans and Democrats.

What's troubling is that now, other state legislatures will be emboldened to follow California.

As evidenced this week by Arnold's fellow RINO, Olympia Snowe Puke. THX Russ for telling it.

Very troubling. Oooops, tread lightly on politics. :smile:

 

[Cragar]

Come on guys, how else is the government going to know who to "visit" when the time comes? Better behave yourselves fellow peons, you are being monitored.

They already know who to visit. Are you or have you ever been a member of the NRA , filled out a form #4473 , gotten a hunting license , held a pistol permit , subscribed to Guns and Ammo , contributed to a pro-gun politician , viewed anything firearm related on the web , etc , etc ?



This sums it up -

I am not afraid , I am prepared.

 

[swerve2007]

i don't know guys, as much as regulation sucks, it will prevent some of the 'criminal element' easy access to ammo. afterall we are all law abiding folks so for us it should be just a minor inconvenience

 

[Vega$ NSX]

Ok, someone help me out here. Maybe I'm missing something. I buy ammunition. I give a fingerprint and the government keeps a transaction of my purchase. Unless I plan on committing a crime with my gun, what EXACTLY do I have worry about?

 

[EdinKali]

You won't be able to buy ammo online(way cheaper than in the stores here in CA). Luckily I started reloading a long time ago so this won't affect me much but for those who don't and like to shoot regularly this will suck.

 

[sahtt]

Ok, someone help me out here. Maybe I'm missing something. I buy ammunition. I give a fingerprint and the government keeps a transaction of my purchase. Unless I plan on committing a crime with my gun, what EXACTLY do I have worry about?

It's the slow, steady process of grinding away the liberties of those who follow the law. You can buy ammo and give it to a criminal, but only one of you is taken notice of.

 

[808NA1]

Ok, someone help me out here. Maybe I'm missing something. I buy ammunition. I give a fingerprint and the government keeps a transaction of my purchase. Unless I plan on committing a crime with my gun, what EXACTLY do I have worry about?

Because this is an infringement of your rights. Allowing these laws will only open the door for more restrictive laws in the future. First it's ammo, then something else, then something else, until the only kind of gun you'll be able to own is a single shot .22.

BTW, this makes no sense. "Starting in July, the law will require dealers to keep records of handgun ammunition sales for at least five years, and store the bullets securely out of customers' reach." What exactly is "handgun ammo"? .223 can go in a handgun. So can .308 or 30-06 or 7mm-08.

 

[swerve2007]

it is not grinding away of liberties, it is about assuming more responsibility- do not give ammo to a criminal who shouldn't have it and nobody will 'look' at you.

 

[FrEsHaZzBuRu]

I apologize in advance if I anger any members of the NRA.

Does every bullet have a serial number (I have never gone hunting yet nor owned any ammunition)? I'm not quite understanding how this will prevent crime other than a criminal can't buy directly - only through a middle man.

If those bullets do carry serial numbers, then I think it's a fair law. No one complains about cashing a check (one of the many task that requiew fingerprinting and ID), so what difference is buying ammo. As long as every bullet can be accounted for, I'm all for this new law.

 

[Vic Cardenas]

So, what crimes will this prevent?

If I was a criminal in california and full of murderous rage, and I was oblivious to reloading, and I didn't have any friends to buy me ammo, and I was too lazy to travel to another state, what would I do?

I'd buy a bow and arrows and a big knife.

 

[Cragar]

I apologize in advance if I anger any members of the NRA.

Does every bullet have a serial number (I have never gone hunting yet nor owned any ammunition)? I'm not quite understanding how this will prevent crime other than a criminal can't buy directly - only through a middle man.

If those bullets do carry serial numbers, then I think it's a fair law. No one complains about cashing a check (one of the many task that requiew fingerprinting and ID), so what difference is buying ammo. As long as every bullet can be accounted for, I'm all for this new law.

I am a benefactor life member of the NRA , but I am not offended by your post.

Bullets do not have any serial numbers. Putting a serial number on a bullet would be a fruitless endeavor. First , as the bullet exits the barrel of a gun it is slightly deformed by the rifling of the barrel because the rifling puts a spin on the bullet to stabilize it in flight for better accuracy. Just like a football spins while in flight. Secondly as the bullet hits it target it will deform from the sudden impact at high speed into a stationary object. Depending on the type of object hit , it may radically change from cylindrical to a mushroom shape so that any number will be unreadable. Politicos have tried to make this into law but have thwarted in their efforts because they don't understand that it does not work. They have even tried to put ' taggants ' ( micro small numbered pieces of plastic ) into the gunpowder to identify that a certain bullet was fired at the scene of a crime. This does not work either because bullets can be disassembled and the powder sifted to remove the taggants. Better yet you could go to a gun range and pick up some taggants from bullets that others have fired and put this into your bullets that you plan to use in a crime so the police will be looking for the wrong man. Politicos have tried to put a micro stamping on the end of a firing pin to identify each brass casing to a certain gun. This also does not work because firing pins can be changed in some guns quite readily , plus there is already hundreds of millions of guns out there without micro stamped firing pins.

It is already illegal for any felon to possess ammunition. There is quite a few laws that have been on the books for some time prohibiting criminals from owning guns or ammo. It is also illegal to sell to a felon any guns or ammo. There is somewhere around 100,000+ laws already regarding firearms.

You have probably heard the old refrain " If guns are outlawed , only outlaws will have guns " it is 100% true. If you doubt that statement , just check statistics of how much gun crimes have increased by a large margin in Australia and the UK following the bans of guns in those countries.

Yes , I have to show ID when cashing a check , but not my fingerprints. I understand that there is fraudulent check cashers out there but getting a false ID is not too difficult for some criminals. A couple of years ago they busted a lady here in my state who was selling genuine DMV drivers licenses to illegal aliens. Lets face it , ID theft is one of the biggest and fastest growing crimes right now.

The real problem is criminals , not law abiding gun owners.

I have heard that a NJ police officer is allowed to carry his weapon as long as he is still employed. Once he retires , he is no longer able to carry a gun nor is he able to get a carry permit. Think about that for a minute. You can trust someone to carry a firearm and shoot at bad guys ( and kill them ) for the span of their time on the force of over 30+ years but the day they retire you can no longer trust them. Over the years on the force they put away many bad guys in jail and the liberal judges let them out only to have a defenseless retired police officer worry whether or not they will come looking for them to get revenge. Most of them move to places like Florida where they can retire without fear because Florida will allow them to obtain a carry permit.


I have a great suggestion for you. I want you to get a copy of this book ' More guns , less crime ' by John Lott. It will dispel the many , many myths about guns. It is loaded with facts and truth. The anti-gun crowd HATES this book because it exposes all their lies and documents it with facts.

I used to be just like you. I hated guns. I wanted them to all be banned. I thought I would be safer , I was wrong. Then the day came that I needed a gun for self protection because I played a large role in trying to put away someone I knew who committed not one but two murders. That person is free and loose in society because law enforcement could not get a convection. I now spend the rest of my life looking over my shoulder because he is a free man. I am damn glad that I can carry a gun to protect myself and my family.

If you think that a gun-free society is a safe place , ask yourself how safe you would feel in a prison. There are no guns there. There are no knifes or other weapons but the convicts always find ways to make weapons out of everyday objects.

 

[PhiAlpha44]

Good think California has nice weather.... other than that it doesn't have much.

No guns

No car mods that won't pass some ridiculous enviro, green peace crap.

Earthquakes

The state catches fire every year.

Enormous state deficit

Kanye West................ Lol....

I think the phrase "california dreamin'" has lost it's luster.

 

[FrEsHaZzBuRu]

The real problem is criminals , not law abiding gun owners.

I 100% agree with that.

I used to be just like you. I hated guns. I wanted them to all be banned. I thought I would be safer , I was wrong. Then the day came that I needed a gun for self protection because I played a large role in trying to put away someone I knew who committed not one but two murders. That person is free and loose in society because law enforcement could not get a convection. I now spend the rest of my life looking over my shoulder because he is a free man. I am damn glad that I can carry a gun to protect myself and my family.

That is an unfortunate event that you had to experience. I hope to never experience that. You are right, I do hate guns - they are very frightening tools especially in the wrong hands. My first girlfriend's father and brother were active members in the NRA - they did a lot of game hunting; therefor my views of the NRA are actually positive. There is a chance I someday might require one to defend myself or others, but I do not want the consequences with the aftermath - it is easy to be wrongfully incriminated (especially with the already in place CA laws). The odds are I would probably get in a car accident before I'm shot. Maybe someday I will seek training and purchase a firearm (maybe by then the laws will make it impossible).

If you think that a gun-free society is a safe place , ask yourself how safe you would feel in a prison. There are no guns there. There are no knifes or other weapons but the convicts always find ways to make weapons out of everyday objects.

I agree. As long as criminals are able to get their hands on firearms, law abiding citizens should too for protection against them.

I really appreciate the details you shared in your post, and based off what I learned, the new law serves only as an extra step to obtaining ammo (not really going to help). BTW, I will definitely check that book out.

PS: to cash a bank check (at the bank the check was issued from when you don't have an account with them), they do require a fingerprint; I just cashed a check written to me last week that way (couldn't wait for the deposit hold time - needed the funds asap).