New 9th gen Accord - disappointing

[TURBO2GO]

Vance let me say one other thing on a more personal note. You and I seem to have disagreements often on things, political and Korea versus japan, etc. emotions and feelings don't come through over the Internet. I want you to know that none of what I argue with you over feels personal to me and I'd definitely sit and have a beer with you at your cigar place and laugh at our arguments. I think we have a lot more in common than differences, both love the NSX, both like Honda, both are car enthusiasts, both have strong beliefs, and both probably like a good cigar. :wink:

Don't take anything personally.

 

[N Spec]

Tough argument to make when you look at the ugly cars surrounded by zero sports cars on the Honda showroom floor.

Honda is still the better engineered car... But Hyundai is intelligent, responsive, has ability, and will make cars that will start to show "passion". Lack of "passion" is usually nothing but engineering mistakes. And Hyundai is good and fast at corrections. Listen I was recently ca shopping, I drove all kinds of Hondas, there was nothing there I would describe as passionate. I mean we can be a bunch of Honda Fanboi's, but a majority of European car buyers would say ALL JAPANESE cars lack passion. It's what the NSX was accused of it's whole life. Now we are sitting around calling Hyundai passionless. I'd take a genesis coupe over anything on a Honda floor right now. You drive it and drive Honda's sportiest car and tell me which is more fun. I don't even know what car that is honestly...

I agree, lack of passion may be the wrong word to use and is often an escape goat to use as a defense. However, we often get into these arguments because we views words or labels with our own interpretation or rules because they are very hard to clearly define. I think the general shift is in Korea's favor, but the criticism shouldn't be ignored either. Hyundai's lineup has some good or OK looking cars, but none of them are 'special' or the related word, passionate. The key fact is that even with all of the current updates, the new Genesis coupe is still not really special. Perhaps it is because it of the volume of sales or maybe it's really just the way it looks. It is unfair to say that Hyundai is unreliable, unproven, etc., but I still don't think they have reached the level that can be said that they are masters or even leaders of engineering or design. Masters of business maybe and we all know it is hard to argue that there is passion behind money. Either way, I don't think you, I or any of us in this discussion would go out and buy a Hyundai still...

To flesh out this lack of special or passion, this also comes back to my point about simply slapping on a turbo to extract 280 hp. It's nothing new or revolutionary. They call it the darkside for a reason, it's fast and easy power. The Japanese have been doing this since the late 80s. There is nothing new here and it's not an engineering marvel anymore. You've got a 3400 lb FR car that is reasonably priced thanks to easy engineering. Honda said they were going to do it without the turbos - just revs and efficiencies, while adding extreme reliability to the formula. That is passion! Then, Joe Guy comes and easily slaps on an aftermarket turbo at 7 psi and makes even more power! Hyundai/KIA has yet to do that and they may never will with their practical/safe business plans. The same can be said about the turn of century Nissan revival. Even Honda is beckoning to stockholders' woes apparently, but the revitalized NSX project bears hope.

To get back on topic though, the Accord has never really been exciting, so why should you expect this next iteration to be? Yes, the 98 style were interesting because there might have been some passion there hence the styling cues from the NSX, but the V6 for that Accord was very uneventful. Stories of the 99% of sedans. They all compete for the same large segment, so it's not a surprise that these safe Camry, Legacy, Maxima, Accord and Genesis have very similar back ends

Honestly, I think the fact that so many apparently whine about Honda failing so much recently is a good thing. We know and expect Honda could do better and so we hope they will. I'm sure they hear the small clamors from the enthusiasts and are adjusting/adapting. If they are not, then that's when there is something truly to worry about.

 

[BD]

Vance let me say one other thing on a more personal note. You and I seem to have disagreements often on things, political and Korea versus japan, etc. emotions and feelings don't come through over the Internet. I want you to know that none of what I argue with you over feels personal to me and I'd definitely sit and have a beer with you at your cigar place and laugh at our arguments. I think we have a lot more in common than differences, both love the NSX, both like Honda, both are car enthusiasts, both have strong beliefs, and both probably like a good cigar. :wink:

Don't take anything personally.

What makes you think I took it personally, sounds like you have a chip on your shoulder.

I'm asking you a simple question; do you currently, or have ever own a Hyundai? Perhaps had a Hyundai as a rental car for extended period of time?

It is as simple as a question can be? If you have not, how do you know what the ownership is like and earned your unconditional vouch to a brand that is still up and coming?

I agree, lack of passion may be the wrong word to use and is often an escape goat to use as a defense. However, we often get into these arguments because we views words or labels with our own interpretation or rules because they are very hard to clearly define. I think the general shift is in Korea's favor, but the criticism shouldn't be ignored either. Hyundai's lineup has some good or OK looking cars, but none of them are 'special' or the related word, passionate. The key fact is that even with all of the current updates, the new Genesis coupe is still not really special. Perhaps it is because it of the volume of sales or maybe it's really just the way it looks. It is unfair to say that Hyundai is unreliable, unproven, etc., but I still don't think they have reached the level that can be said that they are masters or even leaders of engineering or design. Masters of business maybe and we all know it is hard to argue that there is passion behind money. Either way, I don't think you, I or any of us in this discussion would go out and buy a Hyundai still...

To flesh out this lack of special or passion, this also comes back to my point about simply slapping on a turbo to extract 280 hp. It's nothing new or revolutionary. They call it the darkside for a reason, it's fast and easy power. The Japanese have been doing this since the late 80s. There is nothing new here and it's not an engineering marvel anymore. You've got a 3400 lb FR car that is reasonably priced thanks to easy engineering. Honda said they were going to do it without the turbos - just revs and efficiencies, while adding extreme reliability to the formula. That is passion! Then, Joe Guy comes and easily slaps on an aftermarket turbo at 7 psi and makes even more power! Hyundai/KIA has yet to do that and they may never will with their practical/safe business plans. The same can be said about the turn of century Nissan revival. Even Honda is beckoning to stockholders' woes apparently, but the revitalized NSX project bears hope.

To get back on topic though, the Accord has never really been exciting, so why should you expect this next iteration to be? Yes, the 98 style were interesting because there might have been some passion there hence the styling cues from the NSX, but the V6 for that Accord was very uneventful. Stories of the 99% of sedans. They all compete for the same large segment, so it's not a surprise that these safe Camry, Legacy, Maxima, Accord and Genesis have very similar back ends

Honestly, I think the fact that so many apparently whine about Honda failing so much recently is a good thing. We know and expect Honda could do better and so we hope they will. I'm sure they hear the small clamors from the enthusiasts and are adjusting/adapting. If they are not, then that's when there is something truly to worry about.

Well said. Passion comes from within. At least Honda competed in highest level of motor sports and have achieved something only Ferrari can brag about. Having soul or not, it is something only companies that have competed in F1, Indy, Champ Cars, JGTC, etc. will understand. While Hyundai is part of the world really, it is a very small segment with little audience.

Honda Accord was the best seller and is still a best seller of its segment, the only reason other brands are showing a higher number is because Honda don't whore out cars to rental agencies. They did that to protect resale values in behalf of consumers. People like me much appreciate their policies.

I honestly thing Hyundai is either afraid of competing, or the company is not profitable enough to do so by under cut their competitors. Either way, they are catering their products to entry level buyers. While they might get some younger Honda owners to switch, older generation will not likely to do so, they will not be able to get high line buyers to even look at them. At least Acura does have some attractive vehicles and their product line up is improving, and they're not afraid of re-attempt another halo car, that tells me they mean business.

The bottom line is, Hyundai blows and will continue to blow until they do something respectable in the world of auto racing. They don't even have to compete in F1, do Indy, that will be a good start.

 

[TURBO2GO]

I want you to know that none of what I argue with you over feels personal to me and I'd definitely sit and have a beer with you at your cigar place and laugh at our arguments. I think we have a lot more in common than differences, both love the NSX, both like Honda, both are car enthusiasts, both have strong beliefs, and both probably like a good cigar. :wink:

Don't take anything personally.

sounds like you have a chip on your shoulder.

Are you for real man? This is your reply to what I just said to you above?

 

[TURBO2GO]

The key fact is that even with all of the current updates, the new Genesis coupe is still not really special.

It's special enough to win comparison tests at Motor Trend:

. Either way, I don't think you, I or any of us in this discussion would go out and buy a Hyundai still...

Well you are incorrect. I would, and there are a number of NSX owners here that own hyundais and Kia's.

simply slapping on a turbo to extract 280 hp. It's nothing new or revolutionary. They call it the darkside for a reason, it's fast and easy power.

Nothing is easy these days for a manufacturer. They have to meet fuel economy standards, emissions standards, reliability standards, driveability standards. You have to do well in all those areas. To call its "cheap and easy" because it has a turbo is just silly. Tell that to BMW. Or McLaren.

Look I am not saying Hyundai has reached the pinnacle of engineering, but so far on this thread I've gotten all these reasons that they "suck" and none hold very much water. They have weak points, but no one is bringing these up. Talking about passion or their CEO or saying they are cheap junk and they only sell because the economy is bad like Vance likes to say... These are not factual. They are just opinion.

Truth is if you look at FACTS... that is, reliability numbers, resale value, quality of parts, efficiency, sales figures, etc... Hyundai is a healthy, growing company on an upswing, and Honda has been on a downswing. I have no personal dog in this fight, I am just pointing out basic facts. You guys are talking in a manner like we are comparing Hyundai to Porsche or something when fact is Honda has no sports cars, no great designs of any sort. You guys praise Honda in the first half of the paragraph for being dynamic and well engineered and based in F1 (which is all in the past), then in the second half excuse their lame and boring designs by saying they have to appeal to the mass market, compete with camry's, etc.

So which is it? They can't be both. If they are an exciting company, where are the sports cars and the exciting designs? If they are a ho-hum mass market company, then why are you guys harsh on Hyundai for appealing to the masses and saying their image sucks?

 

[Caroline-NSX]

4 banger or 6?

I'd hit it.

4. Had a 6 that thing drink so much gas :tongue:

 

[BD]

Are you for real man? This is your reply to what I just said to you above?

So why are you dodging the question?

 

[Ultraman]

This. Not exactly something to complain about:

I don't see much similarity between these 2 cars at all, sorry.

 

[Timpo]

It's special enough to win comparison tests at Motor Trend:



Well you are incorrect. I would, and there are a number of NSX owners here that own hyundais and Kia's.



Nothing is easy these days for a manufacturer. They have to meet fuel economy standards, emissions standards, reliability standards, driveability standards. You have to do well in all those areas. To call its "cheap and easy" because it has a turbo is just silly. Tell that to BMW. Or McLaren.

Look I am not saying Hyundai has reached the pinnacle of engineering, but so far on this thread I've gotten all these reasons that they "suck" and none hold very much water. They have weak points, but no one is bringing these up. Talking about passion or their CEO or saying they are cheap junk and they only sell because the economy is bad like Vance likes to say... These are not factual. They are just opinion.

Truth is if you look at FACTS... that is, reliability numbers, resale value, quality of parts, efficiency, sales figures, etc... Hyundai is a healthy, growing company on an upswing, and Honda has been on a downswing. I have no personal dog in this fight, I am just pointing out basic facts. You guys are talking in a manner like we are comparing Hyundai to Porsche or something when fact is Honda has no sports cars, no great designs of any sort. You guys praise Honda in the first half of the paragraph for being dynamic and well engineered and based in F1 (which is all in the past), then in the second half excuse their lame and boring designs by saying they have to appeal to the mass market, compete with camry's, etc.

So which is it? They can't be both. If they are an exciting company, where are the sports cars and the exciting designs? If they are a ho-hum mass market company, then why are you guys harsh on Hyundai for appealing to the masses and saying their image sucks?

Why do you try so hard to convince people that Hyundai is superior to Honda?
And all the "past" does not matter and stuff.

Those "past" are Honda's legend, legacy, heritage, whatever you wanna call it.

Has Hyundai ever teamed up with McLaren and Ayrton Senna in F1? No.
I know you may not care about past, but people will always remember what Honda has done.

Hyundai Genesis won a comparison test? By Motor Trend? Based on what? 0-60mph?
What was Hyundai competing against? a V6 Mustang?

I know you wanna argue how NSX has been critisized by somebody for not having passion or enthusiasm or whatever.
But the fact is, when Gordon Murray has something to say about, I think it's a big compliment/honor.
I doubt Gordon Murray would even look at Hyundai Genesis coupe for ideas.

You're comparing quantity, not quality.

Big sales number isn't always better. What about Walmart? They have pretty big sales, does that mean they're the best?

What about jewelry??
Do you think Blue Nile and Zales are always better than Cartier, VanCleef & Arpel, Tiffany, Harry Winston, Graff??

 

[TURBO2GO]

Why do you try so hard to convince people that Hyundai is superior to Honda?

LOL... dude, I haven't tried to do anything like that. When did I ever say that? All I have said are facts. Honda currently has no real sports car, Honda has been on a downswing (shown by facts and numbers), and Hyundai, unlike what some people like to say here, is a company that is on the rise, makes decent cars, and who has an ever improving image (again confirmed by facts and figures). You and Vance are getting all emotional about this, when all I did was point out real numbers. I never said the past "doesn't matter", it matters if you want to be sentimental, if you are a car enthusiast and like "your" company, etc. It doesn't matter however when you are a consumer looking to compare an accord to a sonata to a Mazda 6 to carry around your kids in. That was, if you remember, the topic of this thread. It is about the new Accord.

Has Hyundai ever teamed up with McLaren and Ayrton Senna in F1? No.
I know you may not care about past, but people will always remember what Honda has done.

Well sure, car enthusiasts might, but the general public won't. However, this thread has nothing to do with enthusiasts, Honda fans, it has to do with the new Accord and it's buyers. So go ask new Accord buyers who Ayrton Senna is and see how many of them know. They don't even know what an NSX is. So what do you want to talk about? Honda history and heritage? Or the new accord and Hyundai's current state? I'm saying if you want to talk about the former, that's a different subject.

Hyundai Genesis won a comparison test? By Motor Trend? Based on what? 0-60mph?
What was Hyundai competing against? a V6 Mustang?

LOL... read the article man, it is what it is. It was a comparison of rear wheel drive sports cars in its price category. And no it wasn't based on 0-60. Come on now, you want to criticize a comparison test now? You said "the genesis is nothing special". I said it is at least special enough to win several comparison tests. Overall, the car gets good reviews. The new model is much improved over the one that won the MT test. I am not saying it's the best sports car in the world, but describing it like you are isn't accurate.

I know you wanna argue how NSX has been critisized by somebody for not having passion or enthusiasm or whatever.
But the fact is, when Gordon Murray has something to say about, I think it's a big compliment/honor.
I doubt Gordon Murray would even look at Hyundai Genesis coupe for ideas.

You are just being emotional about this. If I didn't like the NSX, I wouldn't own one of the most expensively modified ones there is. I obviously think very highly of the car, probably more than it even deserves. But again, we were talking about the accord, its competition, the Accord buyer, and you bring up Gordon Murray, Soichiro Honda, etc. I am not arguing with you against those things.... but as I said before, these are seperate conversations. Decide what we want to talk about and we can.

Big sales number isn't always better. What about Walmart? They have pretty big sales, does that mean they're the best?

Did I ever say that? or Say Hyundai was "better" than Honda? We were talking about the accord, and what honda needs to do to change things for the better.

I really feel like I hit a nerve here. If you guys want to be true die hard died-in-the-wool Honda fans, that's fine. But don't criticize Hyundai with incorrect statements and assumptions. It was brought up that Hyundai has an "image" problem, and I said it is Honda that is having an image problem. Their image, has been damaged for a number of years now. Hyundai on the other hand, has seriously GAINED in image. I never said they have reached Honda levels, but at least their image is clear. Value. Honda's image is more vague today. Are they a bread and butter transportation company? or a sports and race car maker like you said they are? If they are what you say, the current lineup is a failure. So I say "the sales numbers show Hyundai is gaining consumer confidence and image", and you say "Walmart has big sales numbers and they are not the best".

What about jewelry??
Do you think Blue Nile and Zales are always better than Cartier, VanCleef & Arpel, Tiffany, Harry Winston, Graff??

No, I think it is all a rip-off LOL

 

[TURBO2GO]

I don't see much similarity between these 2 cars at all, sorry.

I didn't say a $16,000 Veloster and a million dollar one-77 are "similar". I am pointing out design cues. The "cuts" under the headlamps specifically, which Hyundai is using a lot of now, was an Aston rip-off that I noticed right away and has been mentioned by many. Vance said they steal designs, and I agreed that some models have. But everyone does this, unlike Honda who likes to go their own beaky fugly way as of late. If you are going to steal, at least make it good. Anyway I don't think you can criticize KIa or Hyundai for design. They currently have some of the best looking cars in their segments.

 

[TURBO2GO]

So why are you dodging the question?

Because I don't really want to talk to you anymore Vance, unlike anyone else I have ever met on this forum. You are just kind of a negative rude person in general.

No matter how hard I try to be nice.... you can never be that way. So you can post whatever you want from now on, and be comfortable knowing it won't be discussed directly by me. I am going to respect Lud and nsxprime and just stay away from talking with you and having it escalate into what it normally does with you.

 

[Midnight_Raven]

I kind of don't get why there is so much hate on Honda in regards to design.... they were never making beautiful cars to begin with. Even the early 90's Honda that you guys are praising were just regular looking. The only thing that made them a little different/special was that they did offer some sporty like feel in they way they drive. They aren't sport cars they are reliable commuter cars with a little fun factor to them.

I haven't driven new Honda's recently but my brother in law has a 09 Honda Fit and I can say compared to some new rentals I have driven from Kia and Ford, the Fit definitely has a sporty/fun factor in the way it drives. Still seems like Honda makes the same type of cars.

 

[myclue]

am i the only one that likes the design ?

 

[N Spec]

It's special enough to win comparison tests at Motor Trend:

Because it's priced well in a small number of FR coupes available right now. Otherwise it's a generic looking coupe with ok interior - still very unrefined. It is receiving applause because the competition is weak. There is not much for it to compete with, so it's not hard to win. If you would have thrown a used fine example of 90s Japanese sports cars, then the Genesis would still lose all day.

Take the 90s 300ZX. It had a classic design and a very special engine. The twin turbo model had an engine that no other Nissan shared. The Rx7, special chassis and engine. The NSX, same story. All three of these cars had engines and bodies specially designed for that car and did not share it with other cars on the lineup. This is the special that I am talking about. The passion to take a chance and dedicate to a pure idea.

The Genesis shares its engine with the whole Hyundai and KIA lineup. The KIA Optima IMO draws more attention than the coupe when both are present. Perhaps the next iteration will yield a better design but again, I bet the engine is still nothing special for it to be considered a pure or even dedicated sports car.

Well you are incorrect. I would, and there are a number of NSX owners here that own hyundais and Kia's.

Then why don't you own one? Why are both of your Hondas not gone and replaced with Hyundais? I noticed you have been objective in many arguments to be fair, but I just think you are just bored and like to debate :tongue: Deep down, you are still lumped in with us. Praise the GTR, but won't buy one. Bag on the new NSX, but I bet you might still buy one lol

Nothing is easy these days for a manufacturer. They have to meet fuel economy standards, emissions standards, reliability standards, driveability standards. You have to do well in all those areas. To call its "cheap and easy" because it has a turbo is just silly. Tell that to BMW. Or McLaren.

No, I am not just simply bagging on a turbo or have anything against them. You misunderstand me. I am talking about the reasons to use one and how it is executed. The 335i is monster but among the sea of 3 series coupes, it still a 3 series. Instead of BMW competing with the rest of 3.5 V6s, they said let's sacrifice reliability and use turbos. Ferrari's 458 uses no turbos and many hold the 458 over the MP4-12c. Anyways, what at I am saying is that it is not unheard of these days for a 4 cylinder to make 280 hp from a turbo when Nissan, Mitsubishi, Toyota, and Subaru have been doing so for almost two decades! There is nothing special about the generic Genesis so far. It follows a very safe and proven formula and that is one of the reasons why Hyundai is not "passionate". If the Genesis were priced at a 370Z price, then I bet we would not be having this discussion.

Look I am not saying Hyundai has reached the pinnacle of engineering, but so far on this thread I've gotten all these reasons that they "suck" and none hold very much water. They have weak points, but no one is bringing these up. Talking about passion or their CEO or saying they are cheap junk and they only sell because the economy is bad like Vance likes to say... These are not factual. They are just opinion.

Truth is if you look at FACTS... that is, reliability numbers, resale value, quality of parts, efficiency, sales figures, etc... Hyundai is a healthy, growing company on an upswing, and Honda has been on a downswing. I have no personal dog in this fight, I am just pointing out basic facts. You guys are talking in a manner like we are comparing Hyundai to Porsche or something when fact is Honda has no sports cars, no great designs of any sort. You guys praise Honda in the first half of the paragraph for being dynamic and well engineered and based in F1 (which is all in the past), then in the second half excuse their lame and boring designs by saying they have to appeal to the mass market, compete with camry's, etc.

So which is it? They can't be both. If they are an exciting company, where are the sports cars and the exciting designs? If they are a ho-hum mass market company, then why are you guys harsh on Hyundai for appealing to the masses and saying their image sucks?

I never said Hyundai sucked. Read what I said about it being unfair to glance over them. My eyes are on them and watching carefully. Don't lump me in with everyone, even if they have valid arguments amongst their diehard loyalty. I never said Hyundai/KIA are incapable of making a special sports car. I am saying they probably can, but they are not going to anytime soon because they are too busy trying to sell lots of cars to the mass public and NOT enthusiasts. This is completely against why we like our cars. This is also why they have yet to surpass Honda , Toyota or even Nissan.

Honda has the pedigree and history with a proven track record for sales and racing. Hyundai had a meteoric rise based on Sales and has no racing history yet. You bash on Honda but praise Nissan because they have a GTR? Nissan's 370Z and 350Z is garbage. Mazda's Miata is anemic. Toyota just released a sports coupe and they had to rely on Subaru to make one after apparently dumping Yamaha. It also is nothing special or awe-inspiring. All of Japan is staggered right now, even though they all have brought something special to the table before. You can have both. There are cash cow cars and then there are sports cars that represent the spirit of the company. These are the cars that push the edge of engineering and design even though they probably will only sell at very low volumes.

Nobody is making excuses for Honda, but they have enough time to listen to the clamor and adjust/adapt. Just as Hyundai still requires more time to atleast reach a higher level of refinement, Honda has time to bounce back. If they don't, then it would ultimately mean the fall of Honda, but I don't see that happening over night or over a decade. This is the first time in a long time that Honda has faltered. They were the last ones in Japan to do so. Toyota, Nissan and Mazda took their dive way before the economy struggled. Mitsubishi is on the brink of withdrawal and Subaru... when did they really matter with their niche market?

I still have hope Honda will reclaim their stride, but if they don't I still won't jump to Hyundai just yet even if the rest of Japan are still sunk. I have nothing against them and hope that they do evolve, but on an enthusiast level, they don't really offer much right now. I am still waiting for Hyundai to prove themselves. Swooping in with bread that is easily obtainable among a group of starving people does not impress me. This is what the Genesis and FR-S/BR-Z are capitalizing on. I see pass the initial satisfaction one feels when first biting into any available food after starvation. It is still mediocre bread.

 

[blue_myriddn]

Remember this Honda Civic and Prelude? They were butt ugly 20 years ago! People still bought them.

Dunno what you are smoking, but I bought my old Prelude because of the fabulous looks. I still think it is one of the nicest looking low end sporty coupes around and I see quite a few of them still running sharp in the DC area.

I think you need to be careful about making authoritative style statements when style is clearly subjective.

Regarding Hyundai, I like what they are doing. When we were shopping for a mid-sized SUV type thingy a few years ago the Hyundai Tuscon was pretty high on the list. It was very inexpensive, well loaded and had a pretty nice drive. The wife liked it quite a bit. The CRV just didn't interest us as much and was quite a bit more expensive (around $5k more if I recall - which is 25% on a 20k purchase!).

 

[PHOEN$X]

Wow, I didn't think this would be such a hotly debated topic. I don't understand why people are making excuses for Honda. Rather than saying their designs are good enough, or that the competition sucks, we all know they are capable of doing better as evidenced by the NSX and former cars like the Prelude, S2000, Integra, Legend, 4th gen & 7th gen Accord, 8th gen Civic, etc.

It doesn't sound like anyone is saying that the new Accord design lights a fire for them. Just because it's an appliance doesn't mean it can't look good too. My brother purchased a new Kia Optima last year, and I was going to buy a new Hyundai Azera this year but opted to buy used NSXs instead. No current Honda products were even in our cross-hairs because they're bland and unexciting. I was hoping the new Accord design would at least make me a little excited, but it (like the 2012 Civic) does nothing for me. Why is it wrong to hope that Honda might make something that would be desirable to us?

 

[Caustic]

Yeah, not sure what happened here, but everyone has made good points. Honda has a great history, and still draws upon it to some extent. Enthusiasts like to know who is running things so they can understand future direction. Hondas are still popular in certain segments.

But it really is hard to argue the specifics of what is happening in the marketplace. Honda has been trending downward for a while now. It is what it is. Are they on the cusp of coming back? Possibly. I have a lot of faith in their engineering, they still make great cars, but their styling also still needs work.

Are the Korean manufacturers trending upward? Yes. Has quality gone up? Yes. Has styling gotten better? Yes. Are they putting pressure on the Japanese automakers? Yes.

All these things are undeniable.

I have a 2010 Honda Accord. It drives great, its fit and finish is fantastic, maintenance is low and it has great space but also gets great gas mileage. Is it exciting? Hell no. But I have no doubts this thing will get to 200k without skipping a beat. There are no sedans that are exciting to me unless it is an M5 or a Jag XF supercharged. But honestly, I'd rather go to the supermarket in the Accord. You can't go wrong with a Camry, Accord, and yes, even a Sonata. They all fit the utility segment well.

 

[Vega$ NSX]

If all it takes is passion and inspiration to make a great car, then the North Koreans make the greatest cars in the world! No people are more inspired and have passion for their great, and merciful, leader Kim Jung Un!!!

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[Ultraman]

Some cars don't look good on photo and I have a feeling this is the case here.

From this angle is not bad looking.

 

[Yinzer]

WTF Honda? Have you learned nothing from the Civic redesign debacle? Looks just like the current design.

Agreed that it looks like the current design, while at the same time looking not too different from my friend's blue 2006 Accord while at the same time looking pretty similar to the BMW 335i coupe:

As for the Veloster, its radical interpretation of the obligatory-copycat-Audi-fascia might be the first car that looks better with a bra. It sure wouldn't inspire too many look-backs from me. Can't wait to see the resulting geometry experiment when the 2016 Veloster attempts to incorporate the soon-to-be-obligatory Lexus/Nissan trapezoidal grille into that. Kudos though to Hyundai for jumping off the fake fender vent bandwagon!

 

[Yinzer]

Watched a MotorWeek episode tonight and saw a familiar face in the new Merc C250 coupe!

At least the new Accord can't be called ugly by the cool kids at school.

If I look for something nice to say...I think the 2013 Accord designers did a good job adding simplicity and improving the door handles vs. the prior Accord (while quietly saying a Hallelujah that the Nissan 350z robot-bling door handle trend never caught on).

I don't mean to sound so negative. I'm looking for a DD to replace my 2002 Accord and I'm sad like many to not be too motivated by Honda/Acura design. And in general I miss the days when automakers had identities & kept things interesting by working within their DNA, the Audi face shield had yet to be invented, and the Porsche 911 team were the only ones designing via photocopiers set at 105%. To their credit, at least the 911 team pointed the photocopiers only at themselves and not the competition.

 

[TURBO2GO]

And it has the obligatory LED in headlamp housing LED's!!! YAY!!!

 

[Yinzer]

And it has the obligatory LED in headlamp housing LED's!!! YAY!!!

Indeed. Not to derail (or DRL) the thread too much but does anyone else occasionally get fooled by DRL's?

You intend to turn or change lanes and peripherally see in your rearview mirror a blinking turn signal behind you. You then glance directly into the mirror to confirm their intentions and see a bright light on one side of their car. You start into your intended path only to realize the car's heading opposite of what you expected. You realize once again that you didn't see the turn signal, you saw the bright DRL that remains constantly lit on the side opposite of the less bright blinking turn signal. I've been driving for 20 years and am conditioned to glance quickly in the rearview mirror so as to not look away from straight ahead too long, and long enough to almost subconsciouly confirm which side is lit up, processing that as the turn signal. Now I find I have to look back longer and with more concentration to process the DRL vs. turn signals. Anyone else?

 

[PHOEN$X]

Indeed. Not to derail (or DRL) the thread too much but does anyone else occasionally get fooled by DRL's?

You intend to turn or change lanes and peripherally see in your rearview mirror a blinking turn signal behind you. You then glance directly into the mirror to confirm their intentions and see a bright light on one side of their car. You start into your intended path only to realize the car's heading opposite of what you expected. You realize once again that you didn't see the turn signal, you saw the bright DRL that remains constantly lit on the side opposite of the less bright blinking turn signal. I've been driving for 20 years and am conditioned to glance quickly in the rearview mirror so as to not look away from straight ahead too long, and long enough to almost subconsciouly confirm which side is lit up, processing that as the turn signal. Now I find I have to look back longer and with more concentration to process the DRL vs. turn signals. Anyone else?

Interesting. I have not noticed this phenomenon yet, but I can see how it can manifest...especially if your car doesn't have the greatest visibility to begin with.

Thanks for your contributions to this thread. I have an 00 Accord and the subsequent Accord models don't interest me in the slightest. The 13 Accord looks more like a refresh than a redesign IMO. Disappointing.