New 9th gen Accord - disappointing
- Thread starter PHOEN$X
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I'm not sure I would agree with this. I would rather call Honda an engineering brand than a sports car, race car brand. If Honda currently had a sports car on the market, or one that they continually developed throughout their history, I might think differently.
I think it would be more valid to say that Hyundai would be most reputable if and when they finally enter F1 and start delivering victories. To coincide with that, they could then release their own NSX- style car that the masses could afford :wink: and not before the F1 benchmark
So far they have taken the easy route like Nissan and many others, using FI (turbos) to pack more of a punch for their "sporty" cars or just pure displacement.
yea I guess things have changed since Soichiro Honda passed away.
Soichiro Honda was a motorcycle/car race enthusiast. Apparently he didn't even have his own CEO room/office, and he didn't care.
and who was the CEO of Hyundai? was he/she a car enthusiast or does the company exist just to make profit?
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I don't think if you asked too many people what kind of brand Honda was, they'd look across the sea of crosstours, CRV's, and Insights and say "sports car brand". Porsche is a sports car brand.
Using FI is a type of engine design as valid as any other. I wouldn't call it the "easy route".
Every company exists to make a profit. Not to be a bunch of enthusiasts, otherwise it would be Nsxprime or 6speedonline. They exist, to sell cars. No one will care who the CEO is unless the product is good. No one gave a shit who steve jobs was when apple was nothing. Ultimately, it's the product that is the fruit of the company and its CEO. Soichiro produced, but he is gone. Hyundai's CEO, has gown his company to record profits and sales. He's produced a company that is being envied in terms of growth. So I am not sure you can uphold Honda right now for a soichiro that's gone and criticize hyundais CEO because you don't know him.
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I don't think so. Honda have always been a manufacture of reliable, fun to drive cars. NSX was their F1 statement and no other car since delivered that type of status, not even S2000.
Remember this Honda Civic and Prelude? They were butt ugly 20 years ago! People still bought them. What Honda delivered was reliability, fun factor, and value. I see celebrations of high mileage Honda vehicles all the time, I have seen a 300K miles Hyundai.
I don't ever recalled anyone bragging about how fun their Hyundai is to drive other than they get a lot of features for how little they paid. Every time Hyundai bring out a new model, you can totally see them copy others. Luckily for them, a lot of Hyundai's styling copies cars that are not available here in the US, which gave them a free pass from the general public this side of the world.
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Just like we all have to pay our bills, yes I know that companies exist for profit otherwise shareholders won't be happy.
What I'm saying is that people do actually give a shit about company or CEO's background and what not.
Not just Soichiro Honda...but Bruce McLaren, Henry Ford, Enzo Ferrari, Ferruccio Lamborghini, Colin Chapman, they're well known for their passion towards cars. Not just for how much money they have made. (or lost)
I'm sure shareholders won't give a shit about CEO,founder, etc...or if they offer LFA, GT-R, Viper, NSX, etc. However I'm pretty sure the customers(car enthusiasts) do.
Maybe I'm a minority, but I would rather drive a Honda Civic than Hyundai Elantra because Hyundai seems to have no passion towards cars.
Those type of cars are making their way here. European Ford, Brands own by GM, and the major brands such as MB and BMW. Find the GB car publication CARS and go through the cars in there and you will see plenty of resemblance.
They only do, when the company is successful and full of good and innovative products. Otherwise, they don't. Go ask people dropping down deposits on new cars how much the CEO matters to them. They could care less.
It is common in Korean brands, not even in Samsun.
Their goal is to beat their competitor by selling cheap stuff under brand name they created as a major players.
If you look at Japanese brands, regardless how much financial trouble they are in right now, they have passions and followers. Look at Sony, people cannot deny the fact that they make the best video related equipment. Pioneer make the best Audio stuff from Asia, the Matsushita make reliable and affordable electronic equipment of all aspects, they do have a pride you the Korean makers don't have.
As for Honda, people always uses code names for their stuff, bragging what they have. For example, "I have a B26 type R engine," "I have a H22," etc. All Korean makers can say is, "I got blue tooth connectivity for no charge" or I got V6 for $25 grand.
But time is changing, the biggest enemy to Korean brands is exchange rate, the moment they lose that advantage, they may have no choice but to be slotted back to where they're used to be.
yes, I know if I go ask people, I bet lots of people would NOT care.
This is exactly why Hyundai/Kia are so successful.
Also, what do you mean by "they only do, when the company is successful and full of good and innovative products?"
If you produce crappy supercars...like ones that look like kit cars, there is no way you would earn respect from car enthusiasts or customers..and no, your company won't be successful.
What's wrong with that? People would care only if you work hard to produce good products..
LOL... Vance I admire your steadfastness when it all looks bleak.
Did you just bring electronics into it? Sony was a giant that is now being CRUSHED by Samsung. They don't make the best video, you can get just as good a video and many times BETTER in many Samsung and LG models. This is just fact.
What makes your arguments lose credibility is that you aren't acknowledging fact. Current reality. You are trying to say "Hyundai is cheap, Hyundai has a bad image, Hyundai is unfair, Hyundai is only selling cars because the economy is bad", etc. The facts and numbers do not match your opinions. Hyundai does not seem to have an image problem in the hundreds of thousands of sonata buyers that cross shop the accord. Car and driver didn't give FIRST PLACE over the civic to the Elantra because it is a cheap Korean POS. Hyundai and Kia are winning the DRIVING comparison tests in car magazines, not consumers digests and moms are us. Hyundai genesis coupe takes first place in comparison tests. This is scary stuff if you are Honda.
If you want credibility to your argument, at least give credit where it is due. I'm not korean, or Japanese, and I own two Hondas and no hyundai's or Kia's. I'm just calling it like it is.
THIS ACCORD IS BETTER, BUT NOT GOOD ENOUGH!!! they need to take more risk, but Honda is a scared company right now.
Did you just bring electronics into it? Sony was a giant that is now being CRUSHED by Samsung. They don't make the best video, you can get just as good a video and many times BETTER in many Samsung and LG models. This is just fact.
What makes your arguments lose credibility is that you aren't acknowledging fact. Current reality. You are trying to say "Hyundai is cheap, Hyundai has a bad image, Hyundai is unfair, Hyundai is only selling cars because the economy is bad", etc. The facts and numbers do not match your opinions. Hyundai does not seem to have an image problem in the hundreds of thousands of sonata buyers that cross shop the accord. Car and driver didn't give FIRST PLACE over the civic to the Elantra because it is a cheap Korean POS. Hyundai and Kia are winning the DRIVING comparison tests in car magazines, not consumers digests and moms are us. Hyundai genesis coupe takes first place in comparison tests. This is scary stuff if you are Honda.
If you want credibility to your argument, at least give credit where it is due. I'm not korean, or Japanese, and I own two Hondas and no hyundai's or Kia's. I'm just calling it like it is.
THIS ACCORD IS BETTER, BUT NOT GOOD ENOUGH!!! they need to take more risk, but Honda is a scared company right now.
This is exatly what I'm talking about. While Hyundai's quality has improved, they still have absolutely NO passion.
Mazda engineers dreamed about winning LeMans 24 with rotary powered cars.
Honda had a dream to win F1...Toyota has produced the legendary 2000GT.
I mean if you look at Honda, they are entering F1, Indy 500, Super GT, Moto GP, etc...I have never seen Hyundai doing that and never will.
Hyundai started out as building Ford cars under license and sell them...then they were selling Mitsubishi by rebadgeding them to Hyundai.
It was easier and cheaper and more profitable than developing their own cars.
let me make sure I am understanding what you are saying... You are saying Hyundai is successful because the company CEO isn't relavent to the buyers? Isn't that what I just said? You are the one that was Implying the CEO matters. You brought it up.
I can't figure out the rest of your post.
Anyway, I am not here to argue with you over nothing. I was just saying Honda buyers aren't some special breed that are enlightened and care that the CEO is a car enthusiast and does not have his own CEO office. They and the Hyundai buyer are the same people. You and Vance somehow seem to be implying that the true connoisseur of cars goes to Honda and the cheap idiot who understands nothing goes to Hyundai and Kia.
Sadly this is kinda true, Honda is being too conservative.
This accord is kinda boring, almost like Toyota Camry.
I did want to see something more. It doesn't make me want to run to the dealership. Nor does Hyundai. But I agree, Honda should do something a more.
You still don't get the point.
I'm not a CEO, so let's just quote from real CEO.
Carlos Ghosn decided to give a green light for GT-R development because he thought that it would boost brand image for car enthusiasts.
He said that the people would buy Nissan Versa(or something) because the company produce such high performance car, the GT-R.
The GT-R gives the "cool factor" to the company.
(he said that on National Geographic's GT-R documentary)
The GT-R does NOT exist for profit. It's a Nissan's passion and showcase of what they can do.
I do admit that I may be contradicting by saying people don't give a shit about car company's history/background so that's how Hyundai/Kia are so successful, however what I'm trying to say is there still are people who care about what the company does, other than just selling cars.
You may still think that GT-R isn't gonna boost company image or sales, however Carlos Ghosn is no joke.
He rescued Nissan from multibillion $$$ debt to a very profitable coorporation within 4 years or so.
So he knows what he's talking about.
Tough argument to make when you look at the ugly cars surrounded by zero sports cars on the Honda showroom floor.
Honda is still the better engineered car... But Hyundai is intelligent, responsive, has ability, and will make cars that will start to show "passion". Lack of "passion" is usually nothing but engineering mistakes. And Hyundai is good and fast at corrections. Listen I was recently ca shopping, I drove all kinds of Hondas, there was nothing there I would describe as passionate. I mean we can be a bunch of Honda Fanboi's, but a majority of European car buyers would say ALL JAPANESE cars lack passion. It's what the NSX was accused of it's whole life. Now we are sitting around calling Hyundai passionless. I'd take a genesis coupe over anything on a Honda floor right now. You drive it and drive Honda's sportiest car and tell me which is more fun. I don't even know what car that is honestly...
The funnest car I drove when test driving cars at Honda was an old civic si. Old. Used. I liked that car. But the person I was shopping with wanted new. She wound up with a Hyundai. I don't know who hyundai's CEO is. I only know Honda's because I have found myself cursing them over the last 6 years everytime they killed the new NSX.
So Dave, how come you're not driving a Hyundai?
Oh you busted me. All my facts and reasoning just fell apart. LOL....
Hey if I was car shopping I wouldn't rule them out. Considering a sonata for mom. And when they make that 2 seat mid engine car, I'll take a look.
I could own 20 hyundais or none, still doesn't change anything of the facts I am pointing out. Cars are personal and I can understand if you don't like Hyundai. It's cool. But if we talk qualities and not opinion, then I just like them to be factual.
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