Motec M800

[Commander]

What are the pro's and con's of a Motec M800 for an OBD2 NSX? I have been looking at the AEM but it doesn't control the drive by wire. Additionally, it seems that the Motec does many more things than the AEM performs - maybe I'm wrong in this assumption.

I have researched Prime in regards to this but can only find installations that were perform many years ago and only on OBD1 vehicle's; seems mostly 91 cars but they were all extremely happy with the units.

Seems that a person can get into one of these ECU's for about 3k if you buy it direct from Australia (The US dealers are crazy priced from what I can see). Any advantages, disappointments, this is overkill statements are welcome with a reason as to why.

Please keep in mind that I'm not trying to compare every ECU on the planet, I'm more interested in the difference between units that are proven to perform well on the NSX and will support everything without a piggyback computer option or keeping the factory ECU for partial funtionality such as the SOS MLS AEM modified unit does. We all know that the AEM FMU is great, I'm looking for a little more than that though.

Caveat - Would be used for Turbo NSX motor

 

[stuntman]

Amazing unit, benchmark for a reason. You need a good tuner to go through the huge fuel and timing maps.

-Hard to beat

 

[Commander]

Just in case anyone is interested here is the website in Australia http://www.horsepowerinabox.com/HPIABV8/prod42.htm

Price is 3207.00 I'm sure that is the base unit without a harness but I haven't called them yet to see. Would definitely be interested in obtaining at least one of these fully unlocked - the traction control system and drive by wire are supposed to be incredible and can use the existing sensors in our cars...

Any other feedback out there or experience?

 

[whrdnsx]

I'm in the process of fitting a Motec M800

I have made a Jumper loom to be able to use the OEM engine Harness to the M800

I don't have Drive by wire but yes It's more than capable.

There's a thread here somewhere with a lot of info but I couldn't find it.

 

[David]

The Motec is a great unit; I have used several. If you are going that route, you might want to reconsider doing an end-run on the tuner when purchasing the unit, as you are going to need one (a good tuner) to build the harness and tune it. Not the best way to start the relationship. And, I have had a couple of tuners give me very good pricing on the box, as they know they will make money on the harness and tune.

I know you are not interested in a bunch of ECU recommendations, but the new AEM piggy-back unit should be able to do what ever you need on an OBD2 car unless you are building a full-race system that can run a custom dash and provide data-logging. And, you don't have to touch the throttle-by-wire. I am curious as to the specific functions you want that it won't perform.

Cody has done several turbo OBD2 cars, so you might want to touch base with him on this.

 

[Batmobl]

If u wanna spend the big bucks run a Pectel. http://www.apexspeedtech.com/ this is the brand most major racing series use and there very competitively priced. Dollar for Dollar you get a little more performance. And the customer service is far superior. The link above is the company that sponsors our FORMULA SAE car. We run a Pectel and for our application this was a better choice. Apex speed technology is a great company who will be able to answer any question you have Motec, Pectel or w/e they're also suppliers of both.

 

[jorligan]

Factor X did an early car with the M800 but it was OBD1. Now, they have been pushing the HKS FCON PRO with good success in the OBD2 cars but with the limitation of needing a PRO dealer to do your tuning. Cody (LOVEFAB) has done a number of OBD2 cars using the MSL-AEM as a stand alone, not as a piggyback. The piggyback would be the AEM FMU. Momin (ELITE) has also used an MSL-AEM on my 98 turbo. Lastly, Gerry Johnson also modified a standalone unit (TEC 3) and it is being used successfully by Ken Sampson and some others. Don't know if anyone has used the M800 on the OBD2 car but when I looked at it for another custom application, the total cost was going to be between 8-10K.

By the way, when Wayne says that he is in the process of using the M800 on his car in Australia, do a search and you will find that he has some REAL skills not commonly found in your everyday tuner.

 

[Commander]

Thanks everyone for your responses. In regards to a few questions that were thrown my way in regards to what functions I am looking for, here is a list.

1. Launch control
2. Advanced Traction Control for Road Racing that is tunable (the factory system is only good for inducing snap oversteer since all it seems to do is hard cut fuel. Not ideal when you are exiting a corner, been there, done that - ended up off track in the dirt.
3. Drive by wire control
4. VTEC control
5. Ability to tune on the fly - no locked CPU such as FCON
6. Boost Control
7. Smooth shifting
8. Ability to Data Log

This is of course not an all inclusive list but I'm thinking I hit what's on the top of my list or should I say what I think should be at the top of my list. I have been looking into a combination of different solutions such as the AEM FMU with the addition of a Davis Technology Traction Control System. This would be cheaper but also wouldn't give me any of the other features I'm looking for. It may be close enough though with the addition of a few other components.

I need something flexable. My attempt here may be futile since I'm not going to throw my entire bank account at this but I'm willing to invest in a great solution within reason.

Any recommendations are welcome and again appreciate everyones time. We can always start another thread titled Pro's and Con's of different ECU's if required to stay on topic...

 

[Mase]

You actually dont need the M800, only the M600.

Its costly, but worth it for the drive by wire vehicles.

I've been quite busy with a few different other projects i have going on. but within the coming months, I will be building a plug and play motec m600 for use with the drive by wire nsx models.

I dont want to release or begin to speculate until I get it fully functional (on my vehicle as the test bed). But the goal is for it to be completely plug and play. Currently if you were to run motec, you would have to complete a seperate harness, which is very time consuming/confusing if you dont know what you're doing.

The problem with the AEM piggybacking onto the stock ECU on the DBW (drive by wire) cars is you have no control of what the stock ecu is doing w/ the throttle. There is a limp mode the stock ecu can throw and limits the car to only opening the throttle to 33%. As well as the fact you have no control over the idling (ie. if you run say 1000/1200 cc injectors, you need to bump the idle to say about 950-1000 rpms to get a steady idle due to the injector pulse width being so small at those rpms and injector sizing).

Not to mention motec has more advanced features, some which people may or may not need. but for those who do wish to have it, its nice to be able to obtain it (ie. traction control by closing the throttle plate)

 

[Cody@LoveFab]

Cody (LOVEFAB) has done a number of OBD2 cars using the MSL-AEM as a stand alone, not as a piggyback. The piggyback would be the AEM FMU.

We have finished yet another AEM FIC piggyback car and are in the process of converting two more MSL-equipped cars into AEM FIC-equipped cars.

We have been helping AEM Beta-test the FIC since this time in 2007. With our help, AEM was able to dial in the FIC to perfection for the OBD2 NSX application.

I can say first-hand that the AEM FIC is the easiest, most effective setup available for the OBD2 NSX. I spent hardly any time at all to build a basemap based on simple calculations and some previous experience, and the car was ready to drive. In conjunction with a jumper harness, the car can be returned to stock in about 30 minutes, no additional wiring needed. One of my favorite features of the FIC is that the check engine light is left in-tact so that IF a problem develops, the light will tell you exactly where to look which usually cuts diagnostic time in half.

This time the lucky car is a 5,600 mile, stock motor 2002 NSX with 750cc injectors and a larger turbo than what we provide with our standard turbo kits. I was nervous at first about tuning the car to idle with 750cc injectors. However, my fears were quickly disspelled after the car fired right up to a perfect air/fuel ratio and perfect short-term fuel trims. Spending a little bit of time building a solid basemap helps tremendously, but even that task is relatively painless compared to a full standalone unit. Driveability with the FIC is IDENTICAL to the factory NSX; with no hesitation and a seemless vaccum/boost transition. Another great feature is that the factory traction control system remains in-tact. Let's just say that the 2002 could use the traction control until well into third gear

Personally, I think 1000cc injectors could be idled without any issues. The built-in injector drivers provide exact injector control, unlike most other "piggyback" units available that simply tweak MAP signals to fool the injectors. Branding the FIC a "piggyback" is almost unfair because of what the unit is capable of. :biggrin:

 

[Commander]

Mase, if you don't mind, keep me up to date how your M600 turns out. Since your working on an OBDII NSX with Motec specific, you will definitely be a great source of information.

You actually dont need the M800, only the M600.

Its costly, but worth it for the drive by wire vehicles.

I've been quite busy with a few different other projects i have going on. but within the coming months, I will be building a plug and play motec m600 for use with the drive by wire nsx models.

I dont want to release or begin to speculate until I get it fully functional (on my vehicle as the test bed). But the goal is for it to be completely plug and play. Currently if you were to run motec, you would have to complete a seperate harness, which is very time consuming/confusing if you dont know what you're doing.

The problem with the AEM piggybacking onto the stock ECU on the DBW (drive by wire) cars is you have no control of what the stock ecu is doing w/ the throttle. There is a limp mode the stock ecu can throw and limits the car to only opening the throttle to 33%. As well as the fact you have no control over the idling (ie. if you run say 1000/1200 cc injectors, you need to bump the idle to say about 950-1000 rpms to get a steady idle due to the injector pulse width being so small at those rpms and injector sizing).

Not to mention motec has more advanced features, some which people may or may not need. but for those who do wish to have it, its nice to be able to obtain it (ie. traction control by closing the throttle plate)

 

[nsxr530w]

i know hondata isnt around in the nsx world but does anyone know a good hondata nitrous tunner in south east region im in miami fl i can travel but i donno who to trust

 

[Mase]

Mase, if you don't mind, keep me up to date how your M600 turns out. Since your working on an OBDII NSX with Motec specific, you will definitely be a great source of information.

Will do, I just bought a spare DBW Throttle body so we could build the control settings for the motor.

I hope to have more done on it as soon as i finish some designs for RHD s2000s.

 

[Mase]

i know hondata isnt around in the nsx world but does anyone know a good hondata nitrous tunner in south east region im in miami fl i can travel but i donno who to trust

I will be in the miami tuning a half dozen cars this weekend actually. I have vast experience with hondata. Let me know if you need assistance, Id be happy to help.