LS1 in a NSX?

[scorp965]

How am I polluting this forum? We are talking about NSX and thats was this forum is about am I wrong?

You sir, are a moron.

Nice find yes Im only 17

Dont doubt my mechanical ability or my resources since you dont know me.

Money isnt really an issue Ive just thrown the idea around.

Like I said I dont care about the money or depreciation. I would do all the fab work myself and the car would be one of a kind and thats what im going for.

Sometimes you just gotta try something for yourself and prove them wrong.

Im not trying to out engineer any one im just trying to have fun with a great car and a great engine.

What I absoutly love is people like you saying it wont happen only makes me want to do it more

What fun is 12's or 11's theres 12 second cars everywhere hell theres stock sedans with good tires that will run 12's! ... I would like the car to run a mid to low 10 or a high 9.

 

[rev440]

You sir, are a moron.

Im a moron because I have a goal I never said it was my money. Posts like that do not help this forum either.

 

[jimmycinla]

http://www.artandautomotiveclassic.com/Lotus.htm

 

[areitu]

I know how you are thinking- and it does sound like a cool concept, but for what you would spend in money, time, and effort you could probably buy a car even more rare and exotic than an NSX-

So you are going to infuse an NSX with a small block chevy- Neat concept. But as someone who has been around an NSX or two I think the answer to your question about room is "no" there isn't enough room to plug a chevy small block into the bay. It isn't just the engine we are considering. You will have to devise a way of getting the power to the wheels. I am a fan of innovation and all, but have you worked out an adapter? Will you even be able to use a stock tranny? They seem to have trouble keeping them together on the big HP F/I cars. you add an ass load of torque, and i am afraid you would shred a good many expensive gear boxes. The transverse mount is going to present a challenge. Not a great deal of options out there.

actually.. Who makes a trasverse mounted gear box that will retrofit to an LS1 at all? How big is it?

If we are talking about machining an entire transmission- we are also talking about a sizeable investment. Of course- you are right I have no idea what is in your piggy-bank, but I can't see how being unique is going to balance out the cost. Will it be reliable? Maybe.

That is just my opinion of course, and my opinion doesn't open your wallet does it?

Also- how will you cool your small block? Custom radiator application? Time to break into the kids college fund. Will it be reliable? Maybe.

how will you set up the suspension? Custom machined suspension parts? Time to break into your kids-kids college fund!
Will it be functional? Maybe
Will it be as good as the factory pieces? probably not- but then maybe your a suspension genious... i don't know.

You do also realize that even with the V6 you can't keep a set of tires on an NSX longer than 10k miles right?

The thing is- you can do whatever is within your budget, ability, and minds eye to create.

You asked will it fit? Small block, headers, tranny, cooling system...

I don't think so- unless you cut. If you cut, then you might as well forget about the structural integrity of the car- aluminum- unibody- doesn't react well to the torch removal of major bulkhead material.

But then you DO just want to go in a straight line....

Why not just build an NSX funny car? there was one out there a few years ago... oh wait, you want to drive on the street.

Ummm...

How will you register it?

I dunno man. Seems like a lot of hassle. :redface:

Of course, should you decide to go ahead and do it, please keep us all looped on your progress. I would be very interested if you tracked the project like this guy blogged his mid-engine integra build... 118 pages of thread- and he hasn't gotten to the re-assembly yet...

He is almost 2 years into the making on it. His project was slightly less ambitious than yours, but he was an engineer for a Camel Lights team at one point...

Well, you are probably going to look at this post like a challenge, so...

Good luck!

Philip

Wow. Someone's thinking straight for the .8th time on this thread.

I've been wondering how that mid-engine-integra guy has been doing. Seems like he's coming along just fine.

As far as putting a small block into an NSX, it's not an origional idea, just an interesting one that people come up with now and then after hearing a muscle car roll down the street and realizing how nice it sounds. Then looking at an NSX and realizing how gorgeous it is.

Aside from all of the things Philip just listed, nobody seems to mention the NSX engine sits TRANSVERSE and the direction of rotation is probably backwards. On the other SBC-NSX thread, someone measured the NSX engine bay to be a few inches too narrow to include the SBC.

I suppose you could widen the engine bay. Aluminum is difficult to work with though. Plus you still have to figure out the transmission business and find a transverse SBC-friendly tranny, though that most likely means you're going to be using a GM automatic.

I suppose you could use a longitudal drivetrain setup, but you'd have to cut into the trunk area and I wouldn't be suprised if you had to engineer or revise numerous items related to the rear suspension.

I suppose you could engineer a custom mounting kit or subframe/engine cradle that would accecpt the SBC and tranny so you can just bolt it into the NSX chassis after some "fitting."

Even then you might upset the weight balance and should change the rear suspension geometry to compensate...

But if you manage to fearlessly overcome everything, you'll probably be one of the most respected and most hated NSX owner in the northern hemisphere.

I used to be 17 too. I used to have goofy-ass ideas (though nowhere near this weird because I didn't grow up with Monster Garage and Overhaulin). My Young-Kid-Stupid-Post moment was asking the folks on superhonda.com if running an intercooler on a naturally aspirated Civic Si had any benefits. I know everything I do about cars today because I realized I'd have to find 'THE' car. The one car that suits everything I want to do. So I read every car magazine I got my hands on and joined numerous forums on the internet, eventually settling down in the drifters crowd.

I became a college student, grew up and realized that while with elbow grease and working smart, you can make your dreams come true. I also learned the value of the dollar in the meanwhile. After owning a 1986 AE86 Corolla GTS (the car from Initial D) for several months, I learned why turning down a 2003 Honda Accord V6 is something rational people should not do. I didn't have a car I remotely wanted until last november, when I got a 91 240SX. Not having the car you like for this long means you tend to switch between "camps" a lot. I just read everything I could on every car I had some kind of interest in.

I hope that you will do the same. Read about the cars you like, learn the ins, outs and quirks of each particular car so you don't ask t he wrong questions. I hope one day, in two or three years, you'll have learned much more. Like Luke Skywalker learned from Yoda. You'll look back and remember that time you made a post on an NSX forum asking them about small block chevy motors in an NSX and chuckle at your younger self. Much like how I sometimes smile and chuckle at my younger self for posting all the silly things I've posted over the years. What I hope you don't do is fall prey to dumbassery in general and become an uninformed ricer-type.

Rock on and keep the imagination alive.

 

[NSXGMS]

What I hope you don't do is fall prey to dumbassery in general and become an uninformed ricer-type.

Dumbassery? This kid wants to put a LS7 in an Elise.

Please don't wake the beast, everybody. 14 posts is plenty.

 

[Synthesis]

well if you knew this, you might wanna put an LS1 in YOUR nsx....

man, if i made this image, i'd be pumpin out tshirts and going to nascar events to sell em....

you put chevy and god in the same sentence and all of a sudden you have the attention of everybody in the south....

 

[Bob Kenney]

If you can do the fab work, I dont see where the rocket science in this is...

Modify the the inputshaft to connect the chevy motor, weld in new motor mounts, build custom headers, and you're 90% done.

I dont see why you would pick a corvette motor though. That engine was developed in 1955, and not much has changed... Why not get a 500hp over head cam Ford GT engine and step up to the 21st century???

From an engineering standpoint this engine swap is a real challenge!!
The NSX engine is mounted transversely in the car; additionally the engine sits in rotated position with front vale cover higher than the rear in order for it to fit in this very tight space.
The LS engine is significant longer than 3.0/3.2 engine; I see no way it could fit between the frame/suspension pivot points if you attempted to mount it in the transverse position without modifications to the frame and body.
To try to mount it longitudinally and maintain the stock wheel base and body configuration the front of the engine will be well into the passenger compartment and that would be after the removal of the gas tank. To try it with the engine facing the rear of the car it will no longer be a mid engine car and the LS would protrude from the rear of the car.
The only possibility I could see is remove the fuel tank, mount the LS longitudinally with the front of the engine as close to the fire wall, directly behind the seats, as possible. This would have the mid point of the LS engine directly over the rear wheels with the clutch/bell housing extending into the trunk.
At that point you will encounter a number structural and balance problems and we have not yet considered how to transmit the power to the wheels. The best you might hope for is a Pantera type configuration. I have not sketched this out or checked the exact dimensions of the LS in the vertical plain to see what will be encountered.
Your question is: can it be done? I believe it can; but I am afraid you would end up with a very expensive and very compromised car that will never perform anywhere near expectations. Is the project reasonable; I don't feel it is given the time $ required and what the likely outcome would be.

It is always fun to try and find an easy way build mussels [HP]; but alas it usually comes down to a lot long sweaty hours at the gym [garage].

Good Luck

Bob

 

[Tanto2]

So many ask why? The LS1 will always have double the HP potential of any NSX engine, and will deliver it a WHOLE lot more reliably. A 600 hp lsi will live forever and be fairly cheap to build (if emmsions is not a factor). A 600 hp nsx engine will cost a fortune and last a month at best. The splayed crank just won't cut it IMO. And then there is the sound. I haven't heard an NSX yet that sounds good below 5K. I LOVE our car, but thats a real bummer for a pure sports car. My wife already has a sewing machine.

As one who has done a few engine swaps, the problem with the Ls1 concept is finding a transaxle/transmission that works. The only possibility I know of is of finding out who made the race units for the some of the front wheel drive racing series and see if one could be adapted(they are sequential, but I'm sure without syncro-a big problem). And then again from a sensory perspective, pushrod engines go thru a series of vibrations thoughout the rev range that is quite irritating once you get used the overhead cams. The only engine that makes sense for the nsx is a 355 unit, but then you still have to put up with a crappy trans. What the nsx engine and trans do well sets a very high bar for potential doners. The nsx does deserve 600+ hp though, poor thing was born from the wrong family(not infering it should be a GM product though!)

 

[BD]

Im a moron because I have a goal I never said it was my money. Posts like that do not help this forum either.

You're not a moron because you have a goal, you're a moron because your goal is retarded, now worth of achieving.

 

[SugrueNSX]

Come on guys, give the kid a break.
He fest up, got to respect that.
I’m pretty sure I used to dream about stuff that was just as stupid as this when I was his age.
So Nate, here is the deal. As others have pointed out engine swaps tend to be problematic. It’s all the little bits and bobs that kill you like fabbing the new loom and the engine mounts and the custom exhaust and the linkages and the adaptor etc etc and after all the time and expense if you did a really good job with the c of g and everything else you invariably hit into tons of issues like: it overheats and the mounts break and the muffler cracks up and you cant pass emissions and on and on.
And if the weight went up you will probably need to fix the suspension to handle it.
That’s why even today with the use of computer aided design, car manufacturers spend years and millions of $ developing a new car because they build it and test it and fix all the crap that falls off and repeat through multiple iterations and then they still end up recalling the car for the stuff they got wrong.

Here is what I think is a better car to dream about putting a vet engine in.

http://www.ultimacars.com/home_ultima_car_gtr.htm

Regards,

Patrick

 

[jond]

A 600 hp lsi will live forever and be fairly cheap to build (if emmsions is not a factor).

If 60,000 miles is forever, yeah, you're right.
I hangout on the Z06 forums a lot, and they DO have engine problems.

I haven't heard an NSX yet that sounds good below 5K. I LOVE our car, but thats a real bummer for a pure sports car. My wife already has a sewing machine.

Honestly, mine sounds pretty wicked when you gun it around 4,000rpm. I dont know how to describe it other then you can sorta hear the valve overlap, and its sounds REALLY cool. I do have an intake though which helps.

The nsx does deserve 600+ hp though, poor thing was born from the wrong family(not infering it should be a GM product though!)

Why? With a 12.9 1/4 mile, theres not many cars faster. Bolt on a supercharger, and you'll be able to count the number of supercars that are faster on one hand. I mean, a 400hp Ferrari 360 is only .1 seconds quicker in the 1/4. You could gain that just by not eating lunch!

 

[NSXGMS]

Come on guys, give the kid a break.
He fest up, got to respect that.
I’m pretty sure I used to dream about stuff that was just as stupid as this when I was his age.
So Nate, here is the deal. As others have pointed out engine swaps tend to be problematic. It’s all the little bits and bobs that kill you like fabbing the new loom and the engine mounts and the custom exhaust and the linkages and the adaptor etc etc and after all the time and expense if you did a really good job with the c of g and everything else you invariably hit into tons of issues like: it overheats and the mounts break and the muffler cracks up and you cant pass emissions and on and on.
And if the weight went up you will probably need to fix the suspension to handle it.
That’s why even today with the use of computer aided design, car manufacturers spend years and millions of $ developing a new car because they build it and test it and fix all the crap that falls off and repeat through multiple iterations and then they still end up recalling the car for the stuff they got wrong.

Here is what I think is a better car to dream about putting a vet engine in.

http://www.ultimacars.com/home_ultima_car_gtr.htm

Regards,

Patrick

I agree this thread should be left to die but not for the sake of giving this punk a break.

His only mission was to rile up us old fart NSX owners by insisting he could do a practically impossible project in his dad's shed out back. And BTW, he didn't really fess up--it was dragged out of him after a little background detective work was done (nice work robr!). He was disrespectful to people who initially wanted to offer some honest, decent advice (me included) and flat-out lied several times--including the very first sentence of his opening post. ALL he wanted to do was start a flame war.

No Prime member needs to even justify the ridiculousness and issues of putting an LS1--or a LT1, LS7 or a Viper 8.0L-- in an NSX. It's sheer buffoonery. He deliberately chose this project because he knew everyone would be shaken up about the outrageous notion. Kids like to rile adults up--that's what kids do. It's even more fun when you can rile up adults who you're probably jealous of because they own a car you'd like to have.

What he deserves is apathy. So, for the love of god--let this thread go peacefully.

 

[rev440]

I agree this thread should be left to die but not for the sake of giving this punk a break.

His only mission was to rile up us old fart NSX owners by insisting he could do a practically impossible project in his dad's shed out back. And BTW, he didn't really fess up--it was dragged out of him after a little background detective work was done (nice work robr!). He was disrespectful to people who initially wanted to offer some honest, decent advice (me included) and flat-out lied several times--including the very first sentence of his opening post. ALL he wanted to do was start a flame war.

No Prime member needs to even justify the ridiculousness and issues of putting an LS1--or a LT1, LS7 or a Viper 8.0L-- in an NSX. It's sheer buffoonery. He deliberately chose this project because he knew everyone would be shaken up about the outrageous notion. Kids like to rile adults up--that's what kids do. It's even more fun when you can rile up adults who you're probably jealous of because they own a car you'd like to have.

What he deserves is apathy. So, for the love of god--let this thread go peacefully.

I know this is a very very old thread but I would like to make some points. First off All I didnt want to is start a flame war it was an idea. I never wanted to start a flame war. If you honestly think Im jelous of you you have another thing coming. How did I exactly lie? I have worked on cars, fourwheelers, bikes all my life. If you dont belive me I will take pictures for you.

Lets look at some cars for examples that were started on a crazy idea. Caroll Shelby who put the 427 in a ac cobra. Bruce McLaren for wanting to make the ultimate street car but sadly he never got to see his dream as his life was cut short. My point is without these radical ideas where would we be in the automotive world and what would we be driving?

I chose the LS1 because it is a very light large bore (346ci) small block. It can be pushed to nearly 500rwhp in n/a form with mods, and over 700rwhp on the squeeze.

 

[NSXGMS]

I know this is a very very old thread but I would like to make some points. First off All I didnt want to is start a flame war it was an idea. I never wanted to start a flame war. If you honestly think Im jelous of you you have another thing coming. How did I exactly lie? I have worked on cars, fourwheelers, bikes all my life. If you dont belive me I will take pictures for you.

Yes, I'd like to see some pics. Pics of the LS7 crate motor and the NSX in the garage with the motor pulled out. Oh, and please describe the transaxle option you chose. It's been nearly a year--surely someone who says:

Like I said I dont care about the money or depreciation. I would do all the fab work myself and the car would be one of a kind and thats what im going for. I dont really care about a C5 Z06 maybe Id even put a LS7 into it.

should be well on the road to completion of the project.

I'm not sure that you get it. As I just mentioned in the other lame thread about this topic started recently anything is possible with cars with enough time and money, both of which you seem to have at 17 years old.

I just hope you realize how ridiculous it sounds when a 17 year old assertively states that he himself can complete a project that would challenge even the most skilled fabricators and mechanics and cost tens of thousands of dollars and a thousand skilled man hours--all this coming from someone who I would be willing to bet has never taken even an oil filter wrench to an NSX or an LS1/LS2/LS7.

BY reviving this thread what point are you trying to make? The only point you can make is to show us your creation and take it to NSXPO and stun the world. Show us your creation and the write-up and you will be highly respected in the NSX & Vette communities for your precocious mechanical and fabricating skills at only 17.

We are not arguing that it can't be done and yes, innovations are an important part of automotive technological advancement. But I guarantee Carrol Shelby's 427 didn't take 1000 skilled man hours to create 1 example and cost twice the value of the car in parts/fabrication. If it did he would have been laughed out of the business and gone broke! That is apples and oranges, my friend. Shelby's project was mechanically reasonable and cost-effective resulting in a better car ultimately. An LS1 200-nitrous shot NSX is not a "better" car in the spirit of what Honda intended.

Don't get me wrong--I think an LS7 NSX would be very cool and I would love to see one. I just highly doubt we ever will because it's not that cool and there are other ways to get the NSX to 500hp if that's what you want. I'm not sure why anyone would want a 700hp NSX. The car would be probably over it's structural limits and transferring that power to the pavement would prove difficult. You'd also need a new tranny or break the stock one.

It's a catch-22. Anyone who has the skills to do such a project would quickly see it as an unfeasible one. If you have those skills there are so many more productive things one could do with them. Unless it's a crazy pet project and you really do have endless time and money. I guess we'll find out if that's the case.

 

[satx]

The NSX engine is mounted transversely in the car; additionally the engine sits in rotated position with front vale cover higher than the rear in order for it to fit in this very tight space.

the LS engine is narrower than the 3.0 so no problem and obviously you would mount the LS transversely as well

The LS engine is significant longer than 3.0/3.2 engine; I see no way it could fit between the frame/suspension pivot points if you attempted to mount it in the transverse position without modifications to the frame and body.

please post length of both engines as a reference point. I think you will be surprised.


I don't think the premise of this post is as silly as some would believe.