LS1 in a NSX?

[Bob Kenney]

Anything can be done, if you have the scratch to do it - the point is should it be done? Is there a better option?

In the case you mention the car's original modified engine was the better solution, but he still spent huge sums of money trying to fit in something a bit more saucy, only to go back to the car's original modified motor. If a C30 with bolt ons is just as powerful as the Chevrolet V8, with a lower redline, he wants to put in I don't see the point in going through the hassle... $0.02

Regardless of the "ethics/common sense" aspects of this kind of project the engineering challenge to tie into the transmission will prove to be a very interesting discussion. The NSX engine is mounted sideways in the car to keep the wheel base short and the weight between the front and rear tires. How would one transmit the power from a high torquing V-8 to the NSX transmission?

Bob

 

[The Kid]

Im not trying to start a flame war or anything but Its always been my dream swap to have the best of both worlds american muscle in a mid engine beautiful car. So my qeustion is is there enough room in the engine bay to stuff a small block chevy in?

Thanks,
Nate

I think its a great idea, do it! I love this, first lets start by buying the NSX and then get going. Its the like the kids who come into my dealership and proceed to tell me about all the mods they are going to do once they get the car. I always say the same thing, "when the rear wheels roll off my curb, bring it back so we can see it" 1 out 100 add anything more significant than an I/E.

Stop talking about it, and be about it! OR buy a Vette...they look close enough and you dont have to deface the only Japanese exotic car ever built. Sorry Supra Fans:tongue:

 

[jagtiger]

Dude...Whatever you do - It's your car - It's your money....you can put in as many types of engines as you can. One question - Did you consider putting that LS1 engine on the front? Atleast you'll have a reliable spare engine at the back! :biggrin: :biggrin:

 

[AndyNSX]

The problem with vettes is there a dime a dozen. If youd see a NSX going down the e-way with a h/c exhaust LS1 youd take more then just a look at it would blow your mind why because its never been done before. If it wasent for brave people who do things to cars no one would ever think of where would we be in automobiles? Think of Carol Shelby and his orignal 427 ac cobra. Im sure many people didnt like it but look at it now its a legend. Have you seen what LS1 dyno at? they dyno stock at 300+whp and they are not rated at 305 but 345 horse and its a very mild cammed engine with a cam your looking at 340whp. Im more of a n/a car with bottle and this could be done to a LS1 produciong upwords of 600whp on stock internals!

My head literally hurts from reading this. I think a Firebird WS6 might be more of the right car for you.

 

[clr1024]

Like I said I dont care about the money or depreciation. I would do all the fab work myself and the car would be one of a kind and thats what im going for. I dont really care about a C5 Z06 maybe Id even put a LS7 into it. Sometimes you just gotta try something for yourself and prove them wrong.

Personally, as an engineer, I think that if you think it can be done and are willing to do it costs aside you should. your right there is a lot of potential in the LS1 motor, could make a very interesting combination. Some times you have to realize that there are mulitple factors that go into engineering something, cost, quality, marketing, performance etc and sometimes engineering gets compromised on one of those levels at the sacrifice of another. I.e. to get more performance out of the C30 motor might of cost Honda a lot of R & D money, sacrificed a bit of reliability and is not that much more marketable than what they originally produced. I go through this all the time, three biggest factors in development of products are quality, cost, time...you can have two but tough to get all three.

Its going to drive a lot different than honda may have intended but that doesn't necessarily make it wrong, anymore so than someone that puts a large turbo on it. It comes down to what does the end user want, i.e. you. So if you want a small block chevy in there with gobs of torque and ease of modification then do it.

Carl

 

[NSXDreamer2]

first lets start by buying the NSX and then get going. Its the like the kids who come into my dealership and proceed to tell me about all the mods they are going to do once they get the car. I always say the same thing, "when the rear wheels roll off my curb, bring it back so we can see it" 1 out 100 add anything more significant than an I/E.

I second this, just the other day a guy walked in to the store and asking me whether he should buy a E46 M3 or nsx.
And then he told me when he got an nsx, he’s going to put supercharger, big brakes and all the other goodies.. He said he’s a mechanic and his buddy’s dad had a nascar shop “up north”… The purpose of the whole build up is to have some power to play but with no intention to track, ¼ mile at all…. My head just hurt as our little conversation showed that he never had driven any car on track nor he had any sport car experience… (His car outside is an old crysler sedan)

Didn’t we have a member bought whole bunch of aftermarket goodies before he got the car, and now having a second thought of he should have listened to us, that the nsx is more than enough as is in OEM trim??

Regarding the original post, I also don’t get the point of describing the push rod V8 as anything to High technology… Yes, it’s a sweet engine, I give it that, but with 5 -6L of displacement, you bet you will have some good torque and amazing hp. Please, do it, prove us wrong!!!

 

[rev440]

If there was no way for improvement and the stock engine is fine then why is there all sorts of rumors of a V-10 nsx and people mod the supsension? Theres always room for improvement exspecially in a car.

 

[TC]

Here you go - brand-new LS7 engines for sale from GM. Looks very compact...

http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/results.cfm?singlepart=1&partnumber=LS7

 

[NSXGMS]

If there was no way for improvement and the stock engine is fine then why is there all sorts of rumors of a V-10 nsx and people mod the supsension? Theres always room for improvement exspecially in a car.

There's a big difference between true technological advancement and bizarre lateral movement with no R & D, mickey mousing parts from various cars together.

People mod the suspension with parts specifically designed to fit the car in the first place. And there's always some sacrifice of comfort for performance. People mod Ferraris too. That doesn't mean they're lacking.

Obviously you want to have an engine that puts out more HP. We get that. But why? Are you going to the drag strip? What are you going to do with 650HP in an NSX? You're still going to lose on the track and you're "beautiful" NSX won't get any more respect from your Camaro/Vette buddies whom you obviously want to impress and race for pinks.

It's going to upset the balance of the car and with 650HP you're going to need a new very expensive clutch and probably a new tranny, especially if you're dragging everywhere. And how are you going to slow down? I hope you set aside $$ for a BBK and a full race suspension to support it.

So...$20K for a junker NSX and 30K in parts and supplies, and that's if you do the work yourself. So minimum $50K investment. You have that lying around?

People have put less than 30K into an NSX and have 500RWHP (no nitrous) and are much more reliable and balanced and probably pull the same 1/4 mile times you would with your nitrous LS1.

Personally, I doubt that you have the mechanical ability and resources to perform such a conversion. Anyone who could perform it probably knows better than to attempt it.

 

[NSXGMS]

Here you go - brand-new LS7 engines for sale from GM. Looks very compact...

http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/results.cfm?singlepart=1&partnumber=LS7

Wow, 15 grand. That's a deal.

Buy a 97 Vette for 15K and put that in there. 5K for supporting mods and labor...35K and you're done. :biggrin:

 

[rev440]

There's a big difference between true technological advancement and bizarre lateral movement with no R & D, mickey mousing parts from various cars together.

People mod the suspension with parts specifically designed to fit the car in the first place. And there's always some sacrifice of comfort for performance. People mod Ferraris too. That doesn't mean they're lacking.

Obviously you want to have an engine that puts out more HP. We get that. But why? Are you going to the drag strip? What are you going to do with 650HP in an NSX? You're still going to lose on the track and you're "beautiful" NSX won't get any more respect from your Camaro/Vette buddies whom you obviously want to impress and race for pinks.

It's going to upset the balance of the car and with 650HP you're going to need a new very expensive clutch and probably a new tranny, especially if you're dragging everywhere. And how are you going to slow down? I hope you set aside $$ for a BBK and a full race suspension to support it.

So...$20K for a junker NSX and 30K in parts and supplies, and that's if you do the work yourself. So minimum $50K investment. You have that lying around?

People have put less than 30K into an NSX and have 500RWHP (no nitrous) and are much more reliable and balanced and probably pull the same 1/4 mile times you would with your nitrous LS1.

Personally, I doubt that you have the mechanical ability and resources to perform such a conversion. Anyone who could perform it probably knows better than to attempt it.

Show me a 640whp NSX racing a 500rwhp nsx and then showing the same times. It just wont happen no matter what you do. What I absoutly love is people like you saying it wont happen only makes me want to do it more it gives me the drive to prove you wrong. Dont doubt my mechanical ability or my resources since you dont know me.

 

[NSXGMS]

Show me a 640whp NSX racing a 500rwhp nsx and then showing the same times. It just wont happen no matter what you do. What I absoutly love is people like you saying it wont happen only makes me want to do it more it gives me the drive to prove you wrong. Dont doubt my mechanical ability or my resources since you dont know me.

If I don't know you than don't take it personally.

Why don't you do your project, come back in year or three and let us know how it turns out. You asked us if it was possible and we all told you that in 15 years of the NSX we've never heard of it being successfully done but anything is possible although everyone here who actually owns an NSX finds your motivation for doing so quite intriguing. So go buck wild--you'll be a pioneer.

If you're so sure you can do it why are you getting so bothered by our comments? After all you're the engineer/mechanic--what do we know? Don't ask us--just do it.

Anyone who ever did anything important had doubters. And when they actually did what everyone thought noboby could or would do they were put on a pedestal. You'll definitely stand out in the NSX community and we'll marvel at your accomplishment.

 

[sahtt]

If you have the recources to do this, there is no reason to ask us our opinions. Our answer will probably all be the same, don't fix what isn't broken. There are 400hp n/a setups for less than 10 grand if you do it yourself.

You are missing what the NSX is all about. Don't get this car just to make it a dyno queen. The NSX is about balance and refinement. You don't need 2400hp plus a 400 shot of nitrous to enjoy it or maximize its potential. The stock engine with a moderate s/c or turbo application is very reliable and more than powerful enough for any driving experience. Do you not realize this car can potentially run 12's stock? What do you need for a street car? 11's? If you want to show it off at the drag strip, you missed the point. LS1 modern technology... I suppose that is a matter of opinion. It's an extremely simple engine design that has been used for many years, with small improvements here and there. The c30/c32 is one of a kind and has a lot of character. Perhaps you should get to know it before deciding to discard it so quickly.

The only reason I see for doing a ls1/ls7 swap is in cars like FD's where engine problems significantly degrade the driving experience.

 

[The Kid]

What I absoutly love is people like you saying it wont happen only makes me want to do it more it gives me the drive to prove you wrong. Dont doubt my mechanical ability or my resources since you dont know me.

Nice, then do it and stop talking. :biggrin: You'll be the first.

 

[rev440]

If you have the recources to do this, there is no reason to ask us our opinions. Our answer will probably all be the same, don't fix what isn't broken. There are 400hp n/a setups for less than 10 grand if you do it yourself.

You are missing what the NSX is all about. Don't get this car just to make it a dyno queen. The NSX is about balance and refinement. You don't need 2400hp plus a 400 shot of nitrous to enjoy it or maximize its potential. The stock engine with a moderate s/c or turbo application is very reliable and more than powerful enough for any driving experience. Do you not realize this car can potentially run 12's stock? What do you need for a street car? 11's? If you want to show it off at the drag strip, you missed the point. LS1 modern technology... I suppose that is a matter of opinion. It's an extremely simple engine design that has been used for many years, with small improvements here and there. The c30/c32 is one of a kind and has a lot of character. Perhaps you should get to know it before deciding to discard it so quickly.

The only reason I see for doing a ls1/ls7 swap is in cars like FD's where engine problems significantly degrade the driving experience.

What fun is 12's or 11's theres 12 second cars everywhere hell theres stock sedans with good tires that will run 12's! I might even buy a roller and then put my engine and trans in it. My plan for the car would be drag and road racing with two different supsension setups. Theres always a cheaper way out if I just wanted to go in a straight line Id have my eye on some bikes but I dont. I would like the car to run a mid to low 10 or a high 9.

 

[The Kid]

I would like the car to run a mid to low 10 or a high 9

No NSX with a corvette engine will run 9's. Factor X 700 and 800 horsepower cars run high 10's if im not mistaken.

 

[clr1024]

If I don't know you than don't take it personally.

Why don't you do your project, come back in year or three and let us know how it turns out. You asked us if it was possible and we all told you that in 15 years of the NSX we've never heard of it being successfully done but anything is possible although everyone here who actually owns an NSX finds your motivation for doing so quite intriguing. So go buck wild--you'll be a pioneer.

I don't think its been done because similar hp can be done in other ways for less money, supercharger, turbo etc, but those have had there drawbacks too...number one being Kaboom:biggrin: . Starting with an NSX makes it an expensive project from the beggining. Its not like you buy a beater civic and strip it down and work on the motor, for which there are tons of mods at a lot cheaper price. It doesn't mean it can't be done and if wants to do it money aside then have at it. I think it would be a very interesting thread if he documented it all as he progresses.

 

[clr1024]

No NSX with a corvette engine will run 9's. Factor X 700 and 800 horsepower cars run high 10's if im not mistaken.

I think their problem is traction and clutch issues, they can get around those they will be in the 9's.

 

[GOTTSPD]

I'm surprised at the nay-sayers here. Remember guys, this is a car. He's not talking about defacing a piece of artwork, he's talking about monkeying around with a car. Personally, I'd love to see this and I can see the allure of it. That said, I have a LS6 in my Cadillac, so I know what it feels like to have a big engine and it's great to listen to it. Take that LS6 and put it into the NSX, well, I probably wouldn't try, but I can see why someone would want to. Let's see what the guy can do. If he can pull it off, way to go for him.

I've seen classic Saab 900's with Mustang engines in 'em. Makes me smile. Whether you'd do it or not is not relevant to this guy.

 

[rickysals]

yea... 12 second quarter miles... so slow,

who could ever live with that...

slow...

definately need 9 second quarters...

duh..

in a car that's not meant for drag racing...

dude, seriously - if you want the power there are ways to get 500HP already. with every post you seem more like a 17 yr old kid who watched a little to much fast&furious.

either do it or dont - the concensus here is it can't/shouldn't be done.

your car, your money, rock and roll.

 

[The Kid]

I've seen classic Saab 900's with Mustang engines in 'em. Makes me smile. Whether you'd do it or not is not relevant to this guy.

I dont think its a bad idea Im just tired of listening to a thread like this once every 3 months. Normally a troll with under 10 posts.

Im not doubting this guy at all, Im saying stop talking and do it!

 

[H-carWizKid]

Im not trying to start a flame war or anything but Its always been my dream swap to have the best of both worlds american muscle in a mid engine beautiful car. So my qeustion is is there enough room in the engine bay to stuff a small block chevy in?

Thanks,
Nate

I know how you are thinking- and it does sound like a cool concept, but for what you would spend in money, time, and effort you could probably buy a car even more rare and exotic than an NSX-

So you are going to infuse an NSX with a small block chevy- Neat concept. But as someone who has been around an NSX or two I think the answer to your question about room is "no" there isn't enough room to plug a chevy small block into the bay. It isn't just the engine we are considering. You will have to devise a way of getting the power to the wheels. I am a fan of innovation and all, but have you worked out an adapter? Will you even be able to use a stock tranny? They seem to have trouble keeping them together on the big HP F/I cars. you add an ass load of torque, and i am afraid you would shred a good many expensive gear boxes. The transverse mount is going to present a challenge. Not a great deal of options out there.

actually.. Who makes a trasverse mounted gear box that will retrofit to an LS1 at all? How big is it?

If we are talking about machining an entire transmission- we are also talking about a sizeable investment. Of course- you are right I have no idea what is in your piggy-bank, but I can't see how being unique is going to balance out the cost. Will it be reliable? Maybe.

That is just my opinion of course, and my opinion doesn't open your wallet does it?

Also- how will you cool your small block? Custom radiator application? Time to break into the kids college fund. Will it be reliable? Maybe.

how will you set up the suspension? Custom machined suspension parts? Time to break into your kids-kids college fund!
Will it be functional? Maybe
Will it be as good as the factory pieces? probably not- but then maybe your a suspension genious... i don't know.

You do also realize that even with the V6 you can't keep a set of tires on an NSX longer than 10k miles right?

The thing is- you can do whatever is within your budget, ability, and minds eye to create.

You asked will it fit? Small block, headers, tranny, cooling system...

I don't think so- unless you cut. If you cut, then you might as well forget about the structural integrity of the car- aluminum- unibody- doesn't react well to the torch removal of major bulkhead material.

But then you DO just want to go in a straight line....

Why not just build an NSX funny car? there was one out there a few years ago... oh wait, you want to drive on the street.

Ummm...

How will you register it?

I dunno man. Seems like a lot of hassle. :redface:

Of course, should you decide to go ahead and do it, please keep us all looped on your progress. I would be very interested if you tracked the project like this guy blogged his mid-engine integra build... 118 pages of thread- and he hasn't gotten to the re-assembly yet...

He is almost 2 years into the making on it. His project was slightly less ambitious than yours, but he was an engineer for a Camel Lights team at one point...

Well, you are probably going to look at this post like a challenge, so...

Good luck!

Philip

 

[The Kid]

I know how you are thinking- and it does sound like a cool concept, but for what you would spend in money, time, and effort you could probably buy a car even more rare and exotic than an NSX-

So you are going to infuse an NSX with a small block chevy- Neat concept. But as someone who has been around an NSX or two I think the answer to your question about room is "no" there isn't enough room to plug a chevy small block into the bay. It isn't just the engine we are considering. You will have to devise a way of getting the power to the wheels. I am a fan of innovation and all, but have you worked out an adapter? Will you even be able to use a stock tranny? They seem to have trouble keeping them together on the big HP F/I cars. you add an ass load of torque, and i am afraid you would shred a good many expensive gear boxes. The transverse mount is going to present a challenge. Not a great deal of options out there.

actually.. Who makes a trasverse mounted gear box that will retrofit to an LS1 at all? How big is it?

If we are talking about machining an entire transmission- we are also talking about a sizeable investment. Of course- you are right I have no idea what is in your piggy-bank, but I can't see how being unique is going to balance out the cost. Will it be reliable? Maybe.

That is just my opinion of course, and my opinion doesn't open your wallet does it?

Also- how will you cool your small block? Custom radiator application? Time to break into the kids college fund. Will it be reliable? Maybe.

how will you set up the suspension? Custom machined suspension parts? Time to break into your kids-kids college fund!
Will it be functional? Maybe
Will it be as good as the factory pieces? probably not- but then maybe your a suspension genious... i don't know.

You do also realize that even with the V6 you can't keep a set of tires on an NSX longer than 10k miles right?

The thing is- you can do whatever is within your budget, ability, and minds eye to create.

You asked will it fit? Small block, headers, tranny, cooling system...

I don't think so- unless you cut. If you cut, then you might as well forget about the structural integrity of the car- aluminum- unibody- doesn't react well to the torch removal of major bulkhead material.

But then you DO just want to go in a straight line....

Why not just build an NSX funny car? there was one out there a few years ago... oh wait, you want to drive on the street.

Ummm...

How will you register it?

I dunno man. Seems like a lot of hassle. :redface:

Of course, should you decide to go ahead and do it, please keep us all looped on your progress. I would be very interested if you tracked the project like this guy blogged his mid-engine integra build... 118 pages of thread- and he hasn't gotten to the re-assembly yet...

He is almost 2 years into the making on it. His project was slightly less ambitious than yours, but he was an engineer for a Camel Lights team at one point...

Well, you are probably going to look at this post like a challenge, so...

Good luck!

Philip

Damn Phil, bored at work.

 

[jond]

If you can do the fab work, I dont see where the rocket science in this is...

Modify the the inputshaft to connect the chevy motor, weld in new motor mounts, build custom headers, and you're 90% done.

I dont see why you would pick a corvette motor though. That engine was developed in 1955, and not much has changed... Why not get a 500hp over head cam Ford GT engine and step up to the 21st century???

 

[H-carWizKid]

Damn Phil, bored at work.

:biggrin: