Believe it or not guys Lexus will not profit off of this car @ $375K
Lexus LF-A Production model pics
- Thread starter Silver F16
- Start date
very cool writeup here...
http://jalopnik.com/5388538/2011-lexus-lfa-first-drive?skyline=true&s=i
(i have bolded the bits that i found interesting)
You've probably been bewildered by how much attention one car from a previously maligned automaker is getting on this and other enthusiast sites. But the attention we've paid pales in comparison to the attention to technical detail Toyota's displayed in the design and construction of the LFA. The car's gestation has taken nearly a decade not because the program had problems or limited resources, but because Toyota decided to design and build nearly every element of the LFA, its first ever supercar, in-house. Where most companies — Bugatti, Ferrari, Lamborghini and Porsche included — contract out things like gearboxes and the design and construction of carbon fiber components, Lexus chose to teach itself how to make those things better than anyone else, then build its own tools in order to make them.
Take the carbon fiber, for instance. To make the LFA's, Toyota created one of only two circular looms in the entire world, then used it to simultaneously weave one tube of carbon inside another. They built this system just to make the A-pillars on the car.
This all sounded like little more than corporate grandstanding to us. It's the largest car company on earth patting itself on the back for being able to use the money it got selling the automotive equivalent of beige orthopedic shoes to build some fancy tools.
That attitude lasted all the way to turn 6 at the Homestead Speedway road course. An over enthusiastic application of the sharp throttle had the 552 HP, 4.8-liter V10 spinning rapidly towards its 9,500 RPM redline and the tail sliding out towards the grass. Normally that'd have been an oh-shit-I'm-going-to-break-a-$400K-car moment, especially in an unfamiliar supercar, but in the LFA it barely requires conscious correction as it just blended into rocketing down the following straight at three-figure speeds. In fact, oversteer in the LFA doesn't feel so much like oversteer as it does like the rear tires are sitting on castors and being pushed around by a couple of assistants. There's no body roll, no drama, just complete communication and smooth recovery. The reason for that? The impossibly anal approach Toyota took when building the LFA.
The LFA has an unprecedentedly low center of gravity of 17 3/4" — located directly beneath the steering wheel's rim. So far a conventional attribute executed perfectly, but how that CoG got there is way more complicated. First, the engine is located way back in the engine bay and mounts to a 6-speed rear-mounted transaxle through a carbon torque tube. The oil coolers are in the front fenders, while the radiators are at the rear to aid weight distribution, they're fed by the shoulder scoops. That creates a 48% front, 52% rear distribution for the 3263 Lb curb weight. That accounts for the CoG's position front-to-rear, but not vertically. That was achieved by using a world's first counter gear to raise the relative height of the torque tube, allowing the engine to be mounted incredibly low in the car, accounting for the CoG's height.
Of course, that's still only part of the story. The rigid drivetrain assembly (engine, torque tube, transaxle) is connected to the car by four mounts positioned at the geometric extremes of the unit. With no twist in the assembly due to torque, this arrangement eliminates the effect of power delivery on the chassis, there's no torque reaction.
You see where this is going?
Of course, the reason I was over aggressive with the throttle is that the engine revs extraordinarily quickly. From idle, it can be bouncing off the 9,500 RPM fuel cut off in just 6/10ths of a second. That's thanks to an incredibly low reciprocating mass, but achieving that wasn't simple either. They used technology developed by Toyota's F1 program to develop the block, for example, which was cast in the same foundry, using the same technique as the F1 engine. The same goes for the gearbox. The paddle-shifted hydraulically actuated 6-speed features a traditional H-pattern over the more popular dual clutch design because it was determined that the two clutch plates of the latter would negatively impact that low reciprocating mass. Shift speeds are adjustable, taking just 2/10ths of a second a their fastest, but can be slowed to "smooth" for everyday driving; at their fastest, they're anything but.
Transitioning off the incredibly powerful brakes — 15 1/3" diameter carbon metallic discs at the front with Brembo Monoblock 6-piston calipers — and onto the super sensitive throttle isn't currently as smooth as easily driving on the edge of grip requires. But these LFAs are pre-production prototypes and will be continually refined before production begins December 2010. Lexus plans to "break the molds" after just 500 LFAs and plans to build each car for a customer's own bespoke requirements. The company half-jokingly estimates that there's "30 billion" potential combinations of spec.
With only a 202 MPH top speed, a 3.7-second 0-60 MPH time and a 7:30 ‘Ring time, the LFA isn't going to be a bench racer's dream. But we actually admire Toyota for eschewing the conventional, numbers-based approach to supercar success. The LFA's 500 lucky customers aren't buying bragging rights, they're buying the most comprehensively complete supercar package ever made. As a statement of technological ability and performance intent, the LFA firmly establishes Toyota firmly within the upper echelons of sports car manufacturers. The real payoff to us enthusiasts isn't going to be the the incredibly rare LFA, but the trickle down reaching forthcoming Toyota FT-86 sports car and other future Toyota performance models. If the FT-86 can be 1/20th the car the LFA is, us everyday enthusiasts are in for a real treat.
http://jalopnik.com/5388538/2011-lexus-lfa-first-drive?skyline=true&s=i
(i have bolded the bits that i found interesting)
You've probably been bewildered by how much attention one car from a previously maligned automaker is getting on this and other enthusiast sites. But the attention we've paid pales in comparison to the attention to technical detail Toyota's displayed in the design and construction of the LFA. The car's gestation has taken nearly a decade not because the program had problems or limited resources, but because Toyota decided to design and build nearly every element of the LFA, its first ever supercar, in-house. Where most companies — Bugatti, Ferrari, Lamborghini and Porsche included — contract out things like gearboxes and the design and construction of carbon fiber components, Lexus chose to teach itself how to make those things better than anyone else, then build its own tools in order to make them.
Take the carbon fiber, for instance. To make the LFA's, Toyota created one of only two circular looms in the entire world, then used it to simultaneously weave one tube of carbon inside another. They built this system just to make the A-pillars on the car.
This all sounded like little more than corporate grandstanding to us. It's the largest car company on earth patting itself on the back for being able to use the money it got selling the automotive equivalent of beige orthopedic shoes to build some fancy tools.
That attitude lasted all the way to turn 6 at the Homestead Speedway road course. An over enthusiastic application of the sharp throttle had the 552 HP, 4.8-liter V10 spinning rapidly towards its 9,500 RPM redline and the tail sliding out towards the grass. Normally that'd have been an oh-shit-I'm-going-to-break-a-$400K-car moment, especially in an unfamiliar supercar, but in the LFA it barely requires conscious correction as it just blended into rocketing down the following straight at three-figure speeds. In fact, oversteer in the LFA doesn't feel so much like oversteer as it does like the rear tires are sitting on castors and being pushed around by a couple of assistants. There's no body roll, no drama, just complete communication and smooth recovery. The reason for that? The impossibly anal approach Toyota took when building the LFA.
The LFA has an unprecedentedly low center of gravity of 17 3/4" — located directly beneath the steering wheel's rim. So far a conventional attribute executed perfectly, but how that CoG got there is way more complicated. First, the engine is located way back in the engine bay and mounts to a 6-speed rear-mounted transaxle through a carbon torque tube. The oil coolers are in the front fenders, while the radiators are at the rear to aid weight distribution, they're fed by the shoulder scoops. That creates a 48% front, 52% rear distribution for the 3263 Lb curb weight. That accounts for the CoG's position front-to-rear, but not vertically. That was achieved by using a world's first counter gear to raise the relative height of the torque tube, allowing the engine to be mounted incredibly low in the car, accounting for the CoG's height.
Of course, that's still only part of the story. The rigid drivetrain assembly (engine, torque tube, transaxle) is connected to the car by four mounts positioned at the geometric extremes of the unit. With no twist in the assembly due to torque, this arrangement eliminates the effect of power delivery on the chassis, there's no torque reaction.
You see where this is going?
Of course, the reason I was over aggressive with the throttle is that the engine revs extraordinarily quickly. From idle, it can be bouncing off the 9,500 RPM fuel cut off in just 6/10ths of a second. That's thanks to an incredibly low reciprocating mass, but achieving that wasn't simple either. They used technology developed by Toyota's F1 program to develop the block, for example, which was cast in the same foundry, using the same technique as the F1 engine. The same goes for the gearbox. The paddle-shifted hydraulically actuated 6-speed features a traditional H-pattern over the more popular dual clutch design because it was determined that the two clutch plates of the latter would negatively impact that low reciprocating mass. Shift speeds are adjustable, taking just 2/10ths of a second a their fastest, but can be slowed to "smooth" for everyday driving; at their fastest, they're anything but.
Transitioning off the incredibly powerful brakes — 15 1/3" diameter carbon metallic discs at the front with Brembo Monoblock 6-piston calipers — and onto the super sensitive throttle isn't currently as smooth as easily driving on the edge of grip requires. But these LFAs are pre-production prototypes and will be continually refined before production begins December 2010. Lexus plans to "break the molds" after just 500 LFAs and plans to build each car for a customer's own bespoke requirements. The company half-jokingly estimates that there's "30 billion" potential combinations of spec.
With only a 202 MPH top speed, a 3.7-second 0-60 MPH time and a 7:30 ‘Ring time, the LFA isn't going to be a bench racer's dream. But we actually admire Toyota for eschewing the conventional, numbers-based approach to supercar success. The LFA's 500 lucky customers aren't buying bragging rights, they're buying the most comprehensively complete supercar package ever made. As a statement of technological ability and performance intent, the LFA firmly establishes Toyota firmly within the upper echelons of sports car manufacturers. The real payoff to us enthusiasts isn't going to be the the incredibly rare LFA, but the trickle down reaching forthcoming Toyota FT-86 sports car and other future Toyota performance models. If the FT-86 can be 1/20th the car the LFA is, us everyday enthusiasts are in for a real treat.
At a little over $89K MSRP for the 2005 NSX, the LF-A's cost is approximately what 4 of these all aluminum, hand-built Hondas went for.....I'd opt for 4 of these (all in white) given the choice. It's always been quick enough for me.
Now closer to $100K it would be a different story.
Now closer to $100K it would be a different story.
Posted on another forum.
If for one minute, you guys, especially image-conscious people here in the US, would put aside what you think Toyota's place is in the universe and what they should do or not do, consider this.
If dozens of viable back-street, inexperienced, underequipped, understaffed, underfunded newcomers like Pagani, Ascari, Koenigsegg, Noble, Spyker and the like can impress you to death with $500K-$2M cars, why can't Toyota, with what is probably the most advanced engineering knowhow in the world and facilities no other manufactrer could dream of having, come up with a vehicle like the LF-A and be treated on the merit of the car and not on the silly image you might have of it ? This is an argument I use with all the idiots F, L and P-car fanatics who love to knock the GTR.
The LF-A is clearly a money-losing proposition for Toyota, that will showcase its technology and help consolidate its place in the industry. (I don't own a Toyota but you get sick of listening to image-followers who judge products mainly on their image and what their effect is on their nextdoor neighbors, before they get the opportunity of evaluating, let alone seeing the darn thing)
If for one minute, you guys, especially image-conscious people here in the US, would put aside what you think Toyota's place is in the universe and what they should do or not do, consider this.
If dozens of viable back-street, inexperienced, underequipped, understaffed, underfunded newcomers like Pagani, Ascari, Koenigsegg, Noble, Spyker and the like can impress you to death with $500K-$2M cars, why can't Toyota, with what is probably the most advanced engineering knowhow in the world and facilities no other manufactrer could dream of having, come up with a vehicle like the LF-A and be treated on the merit of the car and not on the silly image you might have of it ? This is an argument I use with all the idiots F, L and P-car fanatics who love to knock the GTR.
The LF-A is clearly a money-losing proposition for Toyota, that will showcase its technology and help consolidate its place in the industry. (I don't own a Toyota but you get sick of listening to image-followers who judge products mainly on their image and what their effect is on their nextdoor neighbors, before they get the opportunity of evaluating, let alone seeing the darn thing)
Looks like a Supra with an extensive body kit. I'll keep my NSX!
Yeah, what I mean by that really is look....people are complaining about not having another japanese supercar out there. Now that there is one...no one wants to pay what its worth. If this was a Ferrari then no one would be bitching about the price.
The LFA is bad ass and basically race car everything in a production car.
Now people need to pony up the money and stop being brand snobs....because if they do their homework they will know why the car is so expensive.
Sure the looks are subjective for some, but after finding out how the car is made...now I understand also why its so expensive.
Everyone wants a supercar for cheap......go ask ferrari or lambo to do it...and see what they tell you....tell them you want a 60k supercar made and watch them laugh their ass off and tell you to piss off....
I think mainly it just comes down to people being prejudice that its an japanese made car......if it was some european brand then people wouldnt be saying as much....
Well said!
Thanks bud, I am just keeping it real......You know I been to a lot of exotic car meets....whether its here in MN or back in LA or wherever, people are just so ignorant about a brand name and it just pisses me off when I here these guys just trashing the NSX.....calling it wanna be Ferrari or the poor mans Ferrari......
If Ferrari actually had this car as their model you can sure bet all the Ferrari fan boys would have claimed one of the best cars of the early 90s......
All this no soul BS is garbage......if you know about cars and about racing then these guys should know whats up.......most of the guys who trash the NSX don't even own a Ferrari and if they do its some old ass 348 or earlier model.
Like I said its really just the fact thats its an asian car.....but who cares, I love the car and I appreciate other cars too for their unique qualities...doesn't matter what brand it is or who makes it.....
If Ferrari actually had this car as their model you can sure bet all the Ferrari fan boys would have claimed one of the best cars of the early 90s......
All this no soul BS is garbage......if you know about cars and about racing then these guys should know whats up.......most of the guys who trash the NSX don't even own a Ferrari and if they do its some old ass 348 or earlier model.
Like I said its really just the fact thats its an asian car.....but who cares, I love the car and I appreciate other cars too for their unique qualities...doesn't matter what brand it is or who makes it.....
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Great point. Although, I think the GT-R and LF-A are really two different animals. The GT-R is a high performance car that uses off-the-shelf tech to acheive its performance targets. For example, it draws power from a highly tuned derivative of the same VQ engine you can find in a common Nissan Maxima. While this strategy works well and keeps the cost down, it is also the source of derision from the Ferrari snobs.
The LF-A does not suffer from this image defect however. I mean, they had to engineer the looms to weave the car's CF chassis! That's the kind of cutting edge, exotic detail that makes the automotive press fawn and drool. Who cares if the LF-A isn't really that much faster than the GT-R on the track- what matters is that it is an exotic showpiece, a true halo car.
Therefore I agree that the LF-A's scorn is not deserved, as it is every bit as exotic and well-designed as a F-car or Lambo, if not more so. I predict this car will do good things for Toyota's sales. Halo cars are useful because they draw so much press attention and they bring people into the showrooms. I wonder how many Integras and TL's were ultimately sold over the years because people stopped by the dealership to check out an NSX? I predict Lexus will see a similar bump. A good halo car says to consumers "We make well-designed, advanced and exciting vehicles. And, we clearly know what we are doing. So even if you can't afford our halo car, why don't you look at some other models in our line. They all share the same DNA." It works.
The LF-A does not suffer from this image defect however. I mean, they had to engineer the looms to weave the car's CF chassis! That's the kind of cutting edge, exotic detail that makes the automotive press fawn and drool. Who cares if the LF-A isn't really that much faster than the GT-R on the track- what matters is that it is an exotic showpiece, a true halo car.
Therefore I agree that the LF-A's scorn is not deserved, as it is every bit as exotic and well-designed as a F-car or Lambo, if not more so. I predict this car will do good things for Toyota's sales. Halo cars are useful because they draw so much press attention and they bring people into the showrooms. I wonder how many Integras and TL's were ultimately sold over the years because people stopped by the dealership to check out an NSX? I predict Lexus will see a similar bump. A good halo car says to consumers "We make well-designed, advanced and exciting vehicles. And, we clearly know what we are doing. So even if you can't afford our halo car, why don't you look at some other models in our line. They all share the same DNA." It works.
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saw a lf-a yesterday, it has the best exhaust note i have ever heard in a car. My previous favorite was the carrera gt. but the lf-a exhaust note is is even more refined then the porsche. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kj27d5cUMYc (the note in real life is more full and has more bass, the digital camera does not do it justice)
it revs very fast... like 1000-9000 rpm in less then a second.
the car is very carbon fiber intensive. (all body panels and the tub) it has aluminum subframes front and rear for crash / rebuilding. Unlike the enzo / carrera gt carbon tubs that were outsourced to the same company, the lf-a carbon is all built in house by toyota. the engine compartment on the car is unispiring but clean. the interior and the dash display is interesting and nice. The body is better in person then in pictures. imo lexus made a mistake in having the one car they will have for the next year or so, painted in matte black, i know this is a trend, but it cheapens the look of the car. It would have looked much better in a silverstone or white or red color, why they would have the car in this color at that price point is beyond me.
toyota will control how these are sold. the buyer will have to lease the car for the first two years (at the same rate as a purchase) to make sure the speculators don't buy and resell the car. When you order an lfa lexus comes to you so you can speficy the interior colors and exterior colors so essentially each car can be custom.
it revs very fast... like 1000-9000 rpm in less then a second.
the car is very carbon fiber intensive. (all body panels and the tub) it has aluminum subframes front and rear for crash / rebuilding. Unlike the enzo / carrera gt carbon tubs that were outsourced to the same company, the lf-a carbon is all built in house by toyota. the engine compartment on the car is unispiring but clean. the interior and the dash display is interesting and nice. The body is better in person then in pictures. imo lexus made a mistake in having the one car they will have for the next year or so, painted in matte black, i know this is a trend, but it cheapens the look of the car. It would have looked much better in a silverstone or white or red color, why they would have the car in this color at that price point is beyond me.
toyota will control how these are sold. the buyer will have to lease the car for the first two years (at the same rate as a purchase) to make sure the speculators don't buy and resell the car. When you order an lfa lexus comes to you so you can speficy the interior colors and exterior colors so essentially each car can be custom.
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What's not to like? I personally love the LF-A. I am buying a NSX, not a LF-A because I simply cannot afford 380k. But if I can I'd get a LF-A and keep the NSX. Loving the NSX does not mean I need to ignore the fact that there is a better Japanese super car out there.
LF-A had a official Nurburgring record of 7:30, with traffic. It's estimated a lap time around 7:23 without traffic, which is faster than a Ferrari Enzo or a Porsche Carrera GT. That's something Honda dreamed to achieve but yet failed. I bet this thread would sound totally different if the LF-A wears a Honda/Acura badge.
LF-A had a official Nurburgring record of 7:30, with traffic. It's estimated a lap time around 7:23 without traffic, which is faster than a Ferrari Enzo or a Porsche Carrera GT. That's something Honda dreamed to achieve but yet failed. I bet this thread would sound totally different if the LF-A wears a Honda/Acura badge.
Actually Honda did not fail at achieving that, they had a very fast car, they just decided to can the project. If you have seen the videos, they mentioned an estimated time of 7:38 around the Nurburgring which isn't that far off considering there was traffic there as well. I hate how people make false claims because their unhappy with Honda's new approach.
Congrats to Toyota for creating a car and actually selling it to the public.. Boo to Honda for jumping ship but lets not kid ourselves we have seen real footage of what Honda was making and it wasn't a slow car at all, and it sounded amazing as well.
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I have seen the video of the next-gen NSX, but before anything let me clarify that my focus was to provide the proof that LF-A is seriously an amazing car.
Now, about not kid ourselves, Honda did fail at sending the car into production. There is still a huge gap between a test car achieved 7:38 and a production car achieved 7:30, while both with traffic. There is a reason why records of proto-type and test cars are not listed. Test cars often has fewer interior components, off limits module setting, sports tires, and etc. For example, Nissan GTR's computing settings were changed shortly after its release to preserve damage to the transmission. I cannot find any information about the exact condition of that next-gen NSX, but you and I both know those chairs in the video and pictures are not likely going into a 130k new NSX. I also doubt that it has any stereo system and a spare tire in it.
All that said, it was still an awesome accomplishment by Honda considering a target of 130k to 150k sale price vs. LF-A's 380k. So yes, Honda did not fail at making the car, but yes, it did fail at bringing it to our life.
Off the topic, a lot of people are disappointed at Honda for canceling the NSX project when it's so close to be done, but I am not. I do not think the executives at Honda are short-sighted nor dumb. I don't think they would cancel it, if they're THAT close to making it into production. I think they cancel it because they know they still have ways to go and money to throw in. I could be easily wrong here tho. I am also not so disappointed because it will be a FMR car. If it's still the MR design I know I'll be far more disappointed, not at Honda, but at not seeing that NSX on the street.
Agreed they failed at bringing it out to production but achieved making a fast car... It's just the way you worded it ,made it sound like you were saying that they couldn't achieve making a good sports car of that caliber when they did. Although it seems we are on the same page so I get what you mean.
And Jas303 this is not really attacking you but more of a statement for all to hear. That "I hate how people make false claims because their unhappy with Honda's new approach" comment I made was more for those people here on the board who are just bagging on Honda because they are unhappy with them. I know I've read a couple times people saying it's cause Honda doesn't know "how" to make a fast car... that statement is ridiculous but I know it's been said before.
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Lexus LF-A @ LA Auto Show
You know what the car looks like.....here are some shots from Press day with a cut thru model.
You know what the car looks like.....here are some shots from Press day with a cut thru model.
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The LF-A is one hot looking supercar. It's like a modern day Countach. It looks like it came from the year 2020 or something.
I love it and would take it over anything else out there right now... other than a Lambo Merci.
I love it and would take it over anything else out there right now... other than a Lambo Merci.
Top Gear test: LF-A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xd9T53nUOiM
lap:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfTflPA_rH8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xd9T53nUOiM
lap:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfTflPA_rH8
Well add 10secs to the laptime and the LFA vid sounds like this ..LOL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1KBdQu6VcU#watch-main-area
Top gear always happens to test the Japanese supercars in the wet. I think they should have a do-over policy for cars that were tested in the rain. I wouldve love to have seen the NSX-R do a lap in dry conditions and the LFA also.
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I was under the impression that some time ago they actually started wetting the track on purpose if it WAS dry because of how many tests they already had done in the wet, and how the weather is over there.
But fastest wet time! and with same power levels(weight?) as gallardo it beat it by 3 seconds..and that was dry. Thats something to say right there!(and it looked like the Stig was taking it a lil easier on her lol)
But fastest wet time! and with same power levels(weight?) as gallardo it beat it by 3 seconds..and that was dry. Thats something to say right there!(and it looked like the Stig was taking it a lil easier on her lol)
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In both NSX-R and LF-A videos, Top Gear likes the car but mock the high price that goes with the non-exotic marque. If you slap another emblem on these cars like koenigsegg or Rossion, then perhaps the price tag is justifable to them.
They neglect to mention that both NSX and LF-A are likely much more reliable and than anything the supercar market has ever seen. They are both superbly designed machines in very way and should judged on that without the biases of name plate.
They neglect to mention that both NSX and LF-A are likely much more reliable and than anything the supercar market has ever seen. They are both superbly designed machines in very way and should judged on that without the biases of name plate.
Its to sad to see the LF-A die before it even makes it on the market.
I really dont think its going to survive.
Mr. bean has an NSX??!!
-MSR
I really dont think its going to survive.
Mr. bean has an NSX??!!
-MSR
Aren't they only selling like 500?
Yes.
There is a reason toyota is only making a run of 500 vehicles. They know the car is out of reach for 99% of the buying (or in this case, leasing) public. Its a statement car that was never meant as a profit venture and with the limited numbers, will have people like Jay Leno and others grabbing them up. It definitely will erase that boring, vanilla taste Toyota/Lexus is usually associated with and i guess it will help them sell more camrys!
Kinda like the old "race on sunday, sell on monday" saying..
Kinda like the old "race on sunday, sell on monday" saying..
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