LED Rear Tail Lamps!?!?!?

[ChopsJazz]

IMO the round light is more attractive, but not as seen here as a square with the corners cut off. I see round applications of LED lights all day on trucks and busses. Can't these be retrofitted into the NSX lens?

Just my $.02.

 

[D'Ecosse]

IMO the round light is more attractive, but not as seen here as a square with the corners cut off. I see round applications of LED lights all day on trucks and busses. Can't these be retrofitted into the NSX lens?

Sure! Probably the easiest way to do a led retro.

Buy 4" truck modules (Peteresen's are the best) remove the lens, open up the NSX light assembly & install them in the housing.
It's just a matter of selecting a led array that meets your personal taste.

(Actually that is the method that jdnsx is using in the pics above)

 

[redshift]

Guys, guys, guys... allow me chime in and clarify all this resitor/relay hoopla.

Using a resistor to 'fake' the bulb is a risky option imho, your going to disapate quite some heat in a resistor, which wil get hot hot hot.

Nope. A resistor will dissipate heat just like the incandescent light bulb it is replacing. It will be cooler than the original light bulb since it will be in series with the LED board... thus the voltage drop that the original bulb used to see will be split respectively across the new resistor and bulb... thus the current will scale respectively. Plus you have to consider that the turn signal bulb is only active when you're actually using the turn signal (i.e. for very short spurts) thanks to the blinker relay.

A simple relay would be a much better idea i suppose.

Nope... not at all. I'm assuming that you mean to replace the current flasher relay with a new relay with a lower output voltage. Why... the new relay will just have an equivalent resistor in it to control what voltage is seen on the output. The only difference here is packaging... either you have the resistor on the LED end or in the actual relay. The only clear advantage to this would be if the replacement flasher relay was cheaper and more readily available than the oem relay - which I doubt.

Adding an additional relay is just plain silly and a complete waste of electrical real estate. It's like adding a more complex electrical network in the place of a more simple one that does the exact same thing more efficiently. Just think of a drip system... you put little drip resistors on the end of the drip lines to control the flow of water to a plant. Now imagine you take that drip line and add another equally large line with the drip resistor now at the source of the additional line. Now you add some type of mechanical device to connect the output of the two lines to where the first drip line controls the on/off state of the second drip line. When the first drip line has water flow, then second drip line turns to it's on state and drips water out - which came through the drip resistor at the source of the line. Can you see how unnecessary it was to add the additional drip line and mechanics (still having to use the resistor) to do the same work that the simple resistor did?

Remember, since we're not talking about sinusoidal currents (i.e. audio waves, AC), adding a resistor will not shift the phase of the current - since the current has no phase. It will simply slow it's propagation to the LED which will NOT be noticeable across such a small resistor. It is also nice in the audio world to have all devices turned on at the same time with an external DC power source, this is where resistors can help to synchronize and allow a stronger, relatively, power source to feed the devices (i.e. amps, etc).

The moral of this story is that the path of least resistance and greatest efficiency is to simply add a resistor in-line. It won't change the current delivery (i.e. phase) and it is less expensive than replacing the blinker relay.

Class dismissed. :biggrin:

 

[D'Ecosse]

The OEM relay senses the current drawn by the accumulated total of the bulbs; when a bulb fails, the overall current draw through the relay is reduced & it it goes into the fast-flash mode alerting the owner to a blown bulb. The goal is for the relay to see the same current load that it would expect when all the OEM bulbs are present. Only if the current from combination of resistors & LED's is the same as the original bulbs, will the OEM relay flash at the designed rate.

The resistor does not go in series with the LED, it goes in parallel.
Its purpose when connected across the LED circuit is to shunt additional current through it to simulate the current that would have been through the original light bulb

 

[redshift]

The resistor does not go in series with the LED, it goes in parallel.
Its purpose when connected across the LED circuit is to shunt additional current through it to simulate the current that would have been through the original light bulb

My mistake, I was under the assumption that the R(LED) << R(bulb)... I was wrong. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[DutchBlackNsx]

Guys, guys, guys... allow me chime in and clarify all this resitor/relay hoopla.

Nope. A resistor will dissipate heat just like the incandescent light bulb it is replacing. It will be cooler than the original light bulb since it will be in series with the LED board... thus the voltage drop that the original bulb used to see will be split respectively across the new resistor and bulb... thus the current will scale respectively. Plus you have to consider that the turn signal bulb is only active when you're actually using the turn signal (i.e. for very short spurts) thanks to the blinker relay.

Nope... not at all. I'm assuming that you mean to replace the current flasher relay with a new relay with a lower output voltage. Why... the new relay will just have an equivalent resistor in it to control what voltage is seen on the output. The only difference here is packaging... either you have the resistor on the LED end or in the actual relay. The only clear advantage to this would be if the replacement flasher relay was cheaper and more readily available than the oem relay - which I doubt.

Adding an additional relay is just plain silly and a complete waste of electrical real estate. It's like adding a more complex electrical network in the place of a more simple one that does the exact same thing more efficiently. Just think of a drip system... you put little drip resistors on the end of the drip lines to control the flow of water to a plant. Now imagine you take that drip line and add another equally large line with the drip resistor now at the source of the additional line. Now you add some type of mechanical device to connect the output of the two lines to where the first drip line controls the on/off state of the second drip line. When the first drip line has water flow, then second drip line turns to it's on state and drips water out - which came through the drip resistor at the source of the line. Can you see how unnecessary it was to add the additional drip line and mechanics (still having to use the resistor) to do the same work that the simple resistor did?

Remember, since we're not talking about sinusoidal currents (i.e. audio waves, AC), adding a resistor will not shift the phase of the current - since the current has no phase. It will simply slow it's propagation to the LED which will NOT be noticeable across such a small resistor. It is also nice in the audio world to have all devices turned on at the same time with an external DC power source, this is where resistors can help to synchronize and allow a stronger, relatively, power source to feed the devices (i.e. amps, etc).

The moral of this story is that the path of least resistance and greatest efficiency is to simply add a resistor in-line. It won't change the current delivery (i.e. phase) and it is less expensive than replacing the blinker relay.

Class dismissed. :biggrin:

Think you have to start reading at post #1 at this thread, before you make such a post.
Just a hint, we was talking about the brake light, NOT the blinker, And we were under the impression you need to toggle the brake light to get the indash brake fault light to go off.
Read...just do it.

(also with a microelectronics degree, 25 years of microelectronics repair and design experience, and 8 years of a very succesfull business in microelectronics,.... hell, what do i know about ohms law......)

Your pupil

 

[redshift]

Think you have to start reading at post #1 at this thread, before you make such a post.
Just a hint, we was talking about the brake light, NOT the blinker, And we were under the impression you need to toggle the brake light to get the indash brake fault light to go off.
Read...just do it.

Okay, thanks for the correction. I appolgize for overlooking the application.

(also with a microelectronics degree, 25 years of microelectronics repair and design experience, and 8 years of a very succesfull business in microelectronics,.... hell, what do i know about ohms law......)

Your pupil

I wasn't directing the ohms law comment toward you. I simply misread the application and I don't feel like I was being condescending in my original response at all. I apologize if you took it this way. :redface:

 

[DutchBlackNsx]

Okay, thanks for the corr..........this way. :redface:

No problem.

 

[khappucino]

{begin humor}
hey guys dont make me bust out the Type R Maxwell Equation solution to Honda LED taillight circuits :biggrin:
<img src = "http://www.physics.udel.edu/~watson/phys208/formulas/max-comb.gif">
{end humor}

 

[steva44]

http://cgi.ebay.com/3157-4157-25-le...ryZ20334QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting

Perhaps someone has tried this LED before?? I know the old ones are useless because of their directional nature, but these ones seem to solve the problem... or do they!

 

[D'Ecosse]

http://cgi.ebay.com/3157-4157-25-led-Matrix-Turn-Signal-Tail-Light-Bulb_W0QQitemZ5843335274QQcategoryZ20334QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting

Perhaps someone has tried this LED before?? I know the old ones are useless because of their directional nature, but these ones seem to solve the problem... or do they!

Well these are 3157's which aren't the correct application.
But generally plug-in replacements don't work too well - you'll find that they give less intensity than a conventional bulb

 

[Malibu Rapper]

All this love makes me want to beat people up. Now if I can only find someone to debate with. I'm gonna go check out the Tires and Wheels section. :wink:

Happy holidays! I'd give everyone here a green and a red LED if I had one but I'm not sure if I need a relay with voltage control or a flux capacitor.

 

[redshift]

All this love makes me want to beat people up. Now if I can only find someone to debate with. I'm gonna go check out the Tires and Wheels section. :wink:

Happy holidays! I'd give everyone here a green and a red LED if I had one but I'm not sure if I need a relay with voltage control or a flux capacitor.

:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:
^^ Christmas Lights :biggrin:


JDNSX, I really like what you've done with the taillights. I can't wait 'till you're ready for production! Please keep us up-to-date with any news. :biggrin:

 

[D'Ecosse]

Peace, Redshift! <!--StartFragment -->

All this love makes me want to beat people up. Now if I can only find someone to debate with. I'm gonna go check out the Tires and Wheels section. :wink:...

<S>Oh yeah? Well my battery charger is </S>....... Never mind!

Happy Holidays gang!
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[khappucino]

zymol or zaino? bwuahahahhaa

 

[redshift]

zymol or zaino? bwuahahahhaa

[BEGIN JOKE]
My theory is that you should polish using zaino and zymol in series. I recently found out that zaino has a much larger coefficient of kinetic friction (resistance to paint) while zymol is much lower due to it's beaded rolling friction effect and very small molecular attraction... thus zymol first then zaino... this combination will relay a more simple, efficient, and deeper gloss.
::everybody reading this collectively slap me in the face::

:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: Just kidding guys! Happy holidays to all! :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

 

[martin]

Hi

Don't make me call long distance to your bosses during the holidays :biggrin:

Regards

 

[D'Ecosse]

Winreboot made the relay circuit I designed to replace the OEM Flasher module per the posts 47 & 48 on this thread.
This would have been correct wiring with the TMI flasher modules which uses a ground wire, but didn't work with the SuperBrightLed Modules - there the third pin is for a "pilot" light O/P

So I corrected the circuit to just utilize the input & output of the SuperbrightLed units which resulted in this:

However, Winreboot identified that even though this actually worked correctly for each side independently, the SuperBrightLed flasher Modules actually flash at different rates!!!! So when put into emergency flasher mode, the flashes on each side would be out of synch, further so the longer they were left on.

So here's what I came up with to just utilize one Flasher Relay to avoid the synch problem:

It wires up like this:

So I eliminated one of the flasher relays but had to utilize two more regular automotive relays.

The first two automotive relays are required to isolate the power to the common flasher relay, then the second two automotive units similarly, to isolate the lamps for each side from the common flasher relay.

My thanks to Winreboot for testing out these various combinations to arrive at a suitable solution.

 

[mackash]

More pictures here. I am getting very close to being able to take orders for these.

Joe

Joe
When will you start taking orders for the led conversion?

 

[RAVN NSX]

Joe
When will you start taking orders for the led conversion?

Yeah, i'm still waiting to know when they'll be available! :biggrin:

 

[RP-Motorsports]

After reading this thread, I have a headache, and see why I left college after 3 1/2 years.

 

[john@johnhudakracing]

After reading this thread, I have a headache, and see why I left college after 3 1/2 years.

Wow, you read the whole thing? :biggrin:

I'm not sure what's wrong with the plugins, vleds.com - decent product and at least with a simple plug-in, you can make the argument that your bulbs were getting old and you just wanted to make sure that you didn't get pulled over for a burned out bulb. Heh. Of course, of course.... :redface:

 

[D'Ecosse]

... I'm not sure what's wrong with the plugins, vleds.com .... :redface:

You just don't get the same candle power from those small led clusters as you do from a regular incandescent bulb unfortunately. It's further exacerbated by the fact some of the bulb mounts on NSX are set at angle - LEDs are very directional & when viewed off-axis, the visible intensity from the rear is much less again.
Modern OEM clusters (& DIY'rs) use much higher O/P Superflux leds - some of these replacement lamp assemblies might have a couple of them used in conjunction with 3mm or 5mm leds which have much less intensity. Those on vleds appear to be a combo of 3 & 5mm devices - not terrific output, even with 21 of them (I haven't seen those personally but have tried similar).
Parking lights are one thing, but you really want a powerful set of LEDs to do the work of a 27W brake light.

 

[winreboot]

The only way to make LED's work for NSX is to use D'Ecosse diagram. I work with him on different solutions, and it will only work with one electronic flasher and 4 generic automotive relays. It is not as hard as it looks, if enough people are interested on this topic I can post some pic’s of my install. I replaced all my standard bulbs with LED's. (inside car, license plate, stop lights, turn signals, park lights, etc...)

LED resistors don't work as good as they are advertised. You will need at list 4 of them and they create a lot of heat and have to be clear of any plastics around or will melt it from the heat they generate. I had 2 LED resistors and it was not enough, turn signals wore still flashing too quick, so I assume one resistor per turn signal.

The outcome of using electronic flasher with LED's is awesome The LED's flash so sharp and makes NSX more up to date. (with all the new luxury cars already equipped with LED's stop lights and turn signals, nsx looks outdated) IMO
It is not a big modification, but it is one of those small upgrades that makes you happy at the end of the day
And for those with gadgets like incar PC’s, aftermarket stereos, PDA’s, etc… more AMPS to you :biggrin:

Many thanks to Ken,
Dave

 

[D'Ecosse]

LOL! - Hold the presses Dave .............. <!--StartFragment -->

I was looking at it again & thought of a way to get rid of another relay! <!--StartFragment -->

By using a couple of diodes (something like these from RadioShack), then we're down to 4 relays again & in a nice compact 2x2 block arrangement if desired.

If you're happy, I won't put you through changing again (unless you want to) - I'll test this one out if you like courtesy of your kind offer of your extra flasher relay!