In Shape, Out of Shape....

[robr]

I'm pretty certain that doctors suggest if lipo is going to be done, it should be done AFTER losing the weight, not before. Sure would be nice if there was an easy way just to eliminate 90% of your body's fat cells. One probably wouldn't ever have to worry about weight gain again since as you point out, you don't grow new fat cells after you're an adult, you just expand the existing ones.

 

[clr1024]

I'm pretty certain that doctors suggest if lipo is going to be done, it should be done AFTER losing the weight, not before. Sure would be nice if there was an easy way just to eliminate 90% of your body's fat cells. One probably wouldn't ever have to worry about weight gain again since as you point out, you don't grow new fat cells after you're an adult, you just expand the existing ones.

From what I have seen, yes I watch Dr 90210 and other medical shows occasionally, I think it depends on how much fat an individual is carrying, if they need to lose a significant amount of weight, 40+ lbs they will tell them to lose some weight first and get in shape, as the risk and complications of surgery goes up the more unhealthy and individual is. If we are talking about dropping 20 lbs, not lipoing 20lbs but if your goal is to lose 20lbs total then I don't think they object to lipoing some.

 

[Ryanmcd2]

here is the way I look at it, as someone else said it's a lifestyle change. I used to be 5-10 pounds over wight then I eat everything for about 5 years now it's time to get back to how I always was. I think you have to learn to eat right and exercise, lypo pills whever is not changing that state of mind it's just getting the weight off, I have seen people that have lost 100+ pounds and they look great tight skin and everything.

 

[johnny010]

here is the way I look at it, as someone else said it's a lifestyle change. I used to be 5-10 pounds over wight then I eat everything for about 5 years now it's time to get back to how I always was. I think you have to learn to eat right and exercise, lypo pills whever is not changing that state of mind it's just getting the weight off, I have seen people that have lost 100+ pounds and they look great tight skin and everything.

Follow this example:

When you were 20 years old, you had + representing a fat cell

Whey you were 30 you had +++ representing fat cells

Say at age 30, you lose the weight, and you look like you did when you were 20...problem is you still have +++ fat cells in your body. Those fat cells easily 'fill back up' for lack of better words.

It may have taken 10 years to gain from + to +++, but once you have +++ fat cells, and lose the weight (not the cells, they don't go away), it may only take you to the age of 31 to look like you did at age 30 when you lost the weight.

After the fat cell is created, it doesn't go away, it just flattens. Having lipo suction is the only way that I know of to remove the fat cell. Most people blame it on metabolism....I say that over time, as you gain more weight, you kinda give up a little (mind set), and on top of that, are less active (work), and the last but key part is that the fat cells are already created, and even though you lose the weight, it comes right back b/c the fat cells are still inside you.

I believe the best way to keep the weight off is to lose the weight, and then have the fat cells sucked out. Now mabye you can go five years eating like crap before you repeat, as opposed to just one, and never making any progress.:smile:

*edit: you only gain new fat cells through puberty. My 20 year old example may be a little too liberal. 10 to 20, 11 to 17, you get the idea.

 

[docjohn]

guys,don't blame your "fat" cells,the rate limiting step in the whole equation is your mouths!Whether you want to believe it or not you can lose weight simply by diet,ask Ken.I believe it is better for overall health to excercise along with a decrease in total calories.

 

[clr1024]

guys,don't blame your "fat" cells,the rate limiting step in the whole equation is your mouths!Whether you want to believe it or not you can lose weight simply by diet,ask Ken.I believe it is better for overall health to excercise along with a decrease in total calories.

Unfortunately its not that simple, while creating a caloric defecit, your body will try and fight this as it thinks its starving in turn slowing down its metabolism more.

Also its not just calories, its quality as well, I am a firm believer that a calorie is not just a calorie, its also proven that different types of food have a different caloric consumption to be consumed by the body, i.e. a thermogenic effect. You could eat a 100 calories of two different types of food, for simplicity sake a coke versus a chicken breast and it will take more calories for your body to consume the chicken breast. As for Johnny010, I believe he is right, some people simply have slower metabolisms and more fat cells, I have several friends on both ends of the spectrum and I know how hard they work to lose weight and how hard they dont.....

Ultimately for most people its the right combination of food, quality and exercise that will promote a healthy lifestyle. Personally my general rule of thumb is that I try not to eat a lot of processed foods, not always but I try:wink:

 

[docjohn]

I can understand where you are coming from.The physiology of lipid metabalism/fat cells would be a lengthy discussion!When it relates to the human body as in religion and politics we should tread lightly,because anyone who does a little reserch on these topics can be right about certain trees,but the whole forest,well I still stand by my symplistic view:wink:

 

[nicholas421]

i've been religiously jogging (not walking) for 30 minutes and doing about 75 sit-ups each morning, 4 days/week since jan 1st. I haven't really changed my diet... which consists of Hampton Inn breakfast, eating out twice a day and having 1 or 2 beers with dinner (i travel mon-thurs for work). Net weight loss to date - 0 lbs. I guess with my diet I should just be happy I'm not gaining weight.

 

[Ryanmcd2]

Weight loss is simple math, 3500 = a pound. How do people get fat? Well I gained 200 pounds eating about 5-6000 cals a day and to maintain 400 pounds you have to eat about 6000 cals a day, so cut that to 3500 and you lose a pound a day until you get down to say 300-250 etc. I maybe wrong but it works for me. Also do this for fun, find a skinny friend or someone you can stalk who is skinny, and eat the same thing they do for a few days and I bet you lose weight as well The hardest part for me is changing my habbits back, now when I eat something I think "How is this going to help my body" not just, Damn man this pizza is great! And yes I sometimes eat foods I do like like but I know they are good for me.

 

[sahtt]

People's weight doesn't shift around that much due to working out habits. It's probably 95% your diet. Find a healthy diet of lean meats, vegetables, complex carbs[whole grain/wheat oatmeal etc.] and the right amount of calories and fat.

The fat cells theory is incorrect. A 800lbs person and that same person at 165 have the same number of 'fat cells' that each expand as you gain weight. This was found out relatively recently, maybe 3-5 years ago. So the whole idea of overweight people being prone to being overweight again is for other reasons, mostly up to their control [relatively speaking]


You already know what it takes to get where you want to be. You already know your diet goes to hell under 'x' condition. No one here can give you advice that is going to help much because you already know what to do.

Even though I'm 175lbs, I power lift for my University off and on. Even though I'm 5'10 175 [not exactly Mr. Buff] I push a lot of weight for my size/weight, and I still have some fat over my stomach I'd like to get rid of. It is frustrating sometimes to not be as lean as I want, but if cutting down to 6-7% BF results in losing approximately the same %'s off my max's, it's not worth it to me. It's not worth losing that fat AND the muscle that goes with it to do it though, for me. It also takes HUGE dedication for me to get that low. I've never changed more than a few pounds up or down in a 4-6 month period. The lightest I've been was 3 years ago after having a very bad case of food poisoning, 162, and heaviest is now at about 178. So while it's bad you can go up and down so easily, there are many who cannot get leaner without a TON of work; so remember that and get where you want to be.

 

[sahtt]

Weight loss is simple math, 3500 = a pound. How do people get fat? Well I gained 200 pounds eating about 5-6000 cals a day and to maintain 400 pounds you have to eat about 6000 cals a day, so cut that to 3500 and you lose a pound a day until you get down to say 300-250 etc. I maybe wrong but it works for me. Also do this for fun, find a skinny friend or someone you can stalk who is skinny, and eat the same thing they do for a few days and I bet you lose weight as well The hardest part for me is changing my habbits back, now when I eat something I think "How is this going to help my body" not just, Damn man this pizza is great! And yes I sometimes eat foods I do like like but I know they are good for me.

It's simply but also complicated. Everyone's metabolic rate and diet needs are different. You have to start with the 'norm' and modify it until it works for you.

The easy part is burn more calories than you consume. The hard part is calculating accurately* your resting metabolism, your daily calorie burn without exercise, knowing what to it when, etc.

 

[johnny010]

The fat cells theory is incorrect. A 800lbs person and that same person at 165 have the same number of 'fat cells' that each expand as you gain weight. This was found out relatively recently, maybe 3-5 years ago.

Wait a minute now. If I understand you correctly, you are saying a fat cell cannot be created 'new' in the human body? My understanding is that you can still create fat cells through puberty, and some people beyond.

My statement above confirms that a person who gains or loses weight at age 30 still has +++ fat cells. The idea to keep from putting the weight back on, besides the obvious mental and physical side, is to have the cells sucked out.

Here is what I would do.

Age 25, 35, or 45, doesn't matter: monitor type of foods i eat, eat more often, workout, lose xx number of pounds, then go have the cells sucked out, so the weight doesn't come back so fast.

Many of us had the problem of yo-yo'ing. It is hard to keep to a diet, since many of us gain the weight just as soon as we have lost it. If you suck the cells out, it will take much longer to gain the weight back, at least in theory.

 

[Ryanmcd2]

Lose weight = eat less then you burn, lost 98 pounds so far doing that Going to lose 100 more

 

[robr]

I'm a tech geek, I love gadgets and stats and math and charting and they all help me lose weight. What I'd love to have (and apparently this does not exist), is a Polar compatible heart rate *RECEIVER* that connects directly to the PC via USB port and software that records all your heart rate stats and can display them in real time.

There are PC interfaces to download data from various devices but nothing real time that I can find. I'd love to do stairmaster while watching my heartrate on a 24" monitor and then analyze all the data after the fact to see where I might improve.

Looks like Suunto has one, but dunno if it's Polar compatible.
http://www.amazon.com/Suunto-Heart-Rate-Training-Combo/dp/B000H1H000

 

[Ryanmcd2]

Go get a stress test, I did and had 2 dr. with me to see what my target heart rate is as well is what may max is and the health of my heart.

 

[robr]

I'll look into the exercise stress test, my doctor is closed today, but not a bad idea if she's willing to give me a referral for one, especially since I've really been kicking up the cardio a notch of late. My heart rate is sometimes hitting 180+ based on 10 second finger on the neck times 6. Probably not good for an overweight 40 year old if I have any unknown heart issues . I realize the best weight loss zone is supposedly aerobic, but I've always had good luck bumping it into cardio and burning more calories, while at the same time conditioning my heart. Looking forward to running again when it gets nicer out. I'm not crazy enough to run in this cold weather around snow filled sidewalks.

I think I may pick up that Suunto. $130 isn't so bad for a gadget .

 

[robr]

Did the stress test today, but they didn't use it to determine my max/target heart rates, they just plugged in generic values based on my age (which I pointed out were likely low - max they said was 181 but I know I exceed that by a bit on a regular basis). Took 7 minutes and they brought me up to a heart rate of 170 or so.

One thing I found interesting was the METs reading. My stairmaster METs reading has been improving since I began (determined with the fitness test program once a month), but it's still reporting me as being "low" for my age. 8.5 was the last reading, I started at 7.2 almost six months ago. I feel like I'm in better shape than most people my age aerobically so it was driving me crazy (even though I realize it's just an estimate, I still like statistics and numbers and don't like a machine telling me my fitness level is low, dammit!!! ). The stress test reported my METs as 14.8 which the stairmaster manual shows as above average.

 

[robr]

Amazon is having a 40% off sale on many Suunto products. I had previously ordered the PC interface and heartrate belt (still waiting for them), called up Amazon and had them apply the 40% off. Nice deal. Also just ordered their $500 T6 watch today for $270 (it was already 10% off to start).

http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.ht...eals&ie=UTF8&docId=1000062801&tag2=slickdeals

Save an additional 40% off your purchase of select Suunto products sold by Amazon.com using promotion code 7A3ZXLOT at checkout. Your 40% savings will be discounted at the final page of checkout. This offer applies only to Amazon.com purchases and expires on March 18, 2007. This offer does not apply to products sold on our site by third-party merchants or through third-party areas such as Amazon.com Marketplace, Auctions, or zShops.

1 of: Suunto Home Training Combo Pack with ANT Belt and PC Pod [Sports] $129.99
Item(s) Subtotal: $129.99
Shipping & Handling: $5.36
Super Saver Discount: $-5.36
-----
Total for this Shipment: $129.99
(minus $51.99 credit) = $78

1 of: Suunto T6 Wristop Personal Trainer with Heart Rate Monitor [Sports] $449.00
Item(s) Subtotal: $449.00
Shipping & Handling: $5.26
Super Saver Discount: $-5.26
Promotional Certificate: $-179.60
-----
Grand Total: $269.40

 

[robr]

It's been a while since I've updated and it's interesting to go back and read my old entries and remind myself where I was the last time I posted.

The new Suunto products I purchased (PC Pod, T6) are really keeping me entertained with statistics. It's also interesting to see how the exact same workout on two different days have differing difficulty for my body. I also just bought the GPS that pairs to the watch as I've started doing some outdoor running on nice days in prep for a local 10 mile run at the end of July. I've talked my Ironman friend into doing the run with me so he can push me from behind when I get tired.

I've also been playing with a 30 day trial of a training program called Firstbeat COACH based on the EPOC statistics compiled by the Suunto heart monitor, so my workouts haven't been as consistent as the were over previous months. It wants me to rest more often than I normally do to allow for recovery. I'm not really sure I like the program though because you can't set it for specific goals and preferred workout lengths so I'm about ready to drop it and return to my old routine. I don't want to rest 3-4 days a week and do 75 minute stairmaster sessions.

Started on 9/19

As of 10/24
down 11lbs. My spreadsheet tells me I've done 1012 minutes of stairmaster since 9/19 and burned 10835 calories (based on the loose estimate the stairmaster displays). I haven't been good about tracking floors climbed or miles, but we're over 3000 floors and 65 miles.

As of 11/22
down 16 lbs. 30 hours 58 minutes spent on the stairmaster. 21094 calories burned. 6320 floors, 143.13 miles.

My diet still sucks.

As of 12/28
down 19.5 lbs. 49 hours 18 minutes spent on the stairmaster. 35112 calories burned. 10583 floors. 231.82 miles. I may really need to start adjusting my diet soon. I was actually the same weight I am today on Thanksgiving day, but then went up and have spent the last month getting back to where I was.

As of 2/21
down 22.5lbs (about the same as on 1/21), 66 hours 32 minutes on the stairmaster, 47548 calories burned. 14410 floors. 311.48 miles.

As of 4/5
down 28.5 lbs. About halfway to my goal. Nice that my pants waist size finally starts with a 3 again! My diet still isn't great but I've stopped going out to eat for lunch all the time. On Monday I go to the supermarket and buy deli meats and have a sandwich every day except Friday generally. Still not a great diet, but it's an improvement.

87 hours 26 minutes of stairmaster, 62928 stairmaster calories burned (Suunto Training Manager tells me I'm burning more calories than the stairmaster does, it's probably more accurate since it takes a lot more variables into account), 19219 floors, 399.89 miles.

example STraM analysis

Coach software

 

[makav3li]

i usually hate the treadmill, until one day this cage fighter gave me a tip on how he became so much leaner. he told me instead of jogging on the treadmill at regular level, max out the incline then walk at a very fast pace almost like jogging fast. now i walk really fast then jog then walk then run at the incline. i like it so much better and you actually burn more calories walking a steep incline versus jogging on the flat setting.

 

[robr]

i usually hate the treadmill, until one day this cage fighter gave me a tip on how he became so much leaner. he told me instead of jogging on the treadmill at regular level, max out the incline then walk at a very fast pace almost like jogging fast. now i walk really fast then jog then walk then run at the incline. i like it so much better and you actually burn more calories walking a steep incline versus jogging on the flat setting.

I believe that to be true as well, but I hate the incline. Plus when I'm on the treadmill it's not just a weight loss tool, but also one to build up my running speed since it's more fun to me to run outside and I like to do the occasional race (where I'm typically at the back of the pack at my lame 10min pace).

 

[nsxsupra]

Anyone know how to help?

My suggestion is this. You look great in the pic you posted. That alone is enough for motivation.

I have been in same exact shape for 10 years, always +/- 3lbs or less. I make working out a daily routine. If I travel I run a few miles rain or snow. If make it a habbit, if I don't get my work out, I feel like shit. I eat fast food 5~6 meals a week, super size it too.

Make working out a habbit. If you hate working out. Easy, ride a stationary bike and browse prime. Use plastic foil to cover the key board, use book holder to hold your laptop. Or just get a Sony Mylo or PSP and browse prime while riding the bike at 130~150 heart beat per minute. Before you know it, 1 hour just went by like that.

Eat whatever anytime.
Don't binge
Diet don't work, you end up having a bigger craving.

I think my recommendation is the best, if anyone dare to challenge it, put up a shirtless pic to back it up.

 

[Ryanmcd2]

You can have a 6 pack and die from a heart attack too. Eating that crap food is bad and it's proven. Go get some blood work done. I will also add that I have a friend who has only been here from Poland for 3 years all he eats is sausage and potatos and greese and has super low cholesterol and his blood work was perfect. I think genitics do play a roll in this.

 

[whiteNSXs]

Unfortunately its not that simple, while creating a caloric defecit, your body will try and fight this as it thinks its starving in turn slowing down its metabolism more.

Also its not just calories, its quality as well, I am a firm believer that a calorie is not just a calorie, its also proven that different types of food have a different caloric consumption to be consumed by the body, i.e. a thermogenic effect. You could eat a 100 calories of two different types of food, for simplicity sake a coke versus a chicken breast and it will take more calories for your body to consume the chicken breast. As for Johnny010, I believe he is right, some people simply have slower metabolisms and more fat cells, I have several friends on both ends of the spectrum and I know how hard they work to lose weight and how hard they dont.....

Ultimately for most people its the right combination of food, quality and exercise that will promote a healthy lifestyle. Personally my general rule of thumb is that I try not to eat a lot of processed foods, not always but I try:wink:

I am sorry, but what you said about starving causing slowing down the metabolism hence slowing down weight loss is really nonsense. Body weight is really some very simple math as what DocJohn has repeatedly outlined. It is all about how much intake Vs how much output. DocJohn did not finish medical school by reading Reader's Digest and National Enquirer. All these "diets" out there are trying to confuse everyone so to make people believe that there are something magical about their diet plans so that people will buy. "All you can eat and still lose weight" certainly is a very attractive diet and of course lie. The word "metabolism" has been totally misused as excuses for why one does not lose weight. The biggest damn problem in this country is people eating so casually and sitting all day long AND will NOT admit it!!! People are so addicted to the pleasure of eating and they don't even notice it. I have people telling me all day long that they don't eat "anything" but continue to be 250 lbs. Further questioning invariably reveals excessive intake in forms of nuts, soda, FRUITS, sugar, pastries, JUICEs, MILK, CREAMER, salad dressing, margarine, cooking oil, and so on. A typical American portioned meal is simply excessive compare to other cultures. There is no such thing as the "slow metabolism" unless you have hypothyroidism. Almost all people who claim to have slow metabolism have sedentary life style. Really, how much energy can one burn by sitting on one's ass??? I really did try to stay out of this discussion, but just couldn't because there is just so much false information being spread. Really, it IS just that simple. What is complicated is people's behaviors and unwillingness or incapability to be accountable for their own health and make up all kinds of excuses why they are so fat. Seriously, if you really want to lose weight, the first thing you have to admit is that you are eating too much. As soon as you believe these BS metabolism crap, you have already set yourself up for failure. Obesity is simply mainly a manifestation of food addiction regardless of the reasons for the addiction. BTW, it is true that there is the "fat" gene. The fat gene, as expected, is conveniently located in one's mouth.
Steve

 

[docjohn]

Steve ,I read your post above with a big smile!LOL.I love the myth about eating food that is tough to digest will burn more calories thus helping to loose weight,, Oh boy!Please people As the other MD on this thread has said if you are dieting and are not losing weight and you feel as if you will die if you eat any less,guess what you still need to decrease your total calories or increase your exercise level.