I quit my job yesturday

[nsxlover]

I am a Network Engineer. About 9 months ago, I had a job offer for a lot more money, UPS told me that they would match it, but couldn't do it for a few months. They basically strung me along until Tuesday when they told me that couldn't do it. I resigned immediately. I took a position temporarly with a friends company as a sales manager. After sending out an email telling everyone, some old friends emailed me with 5 job offers, so I am not worried. I had to resign out of principal. I really enjoyed working at UPS, but couldn't let them screw me like that.

Has anyone had the same thing happen to them and what did you do?

Rob

 

[queenlives]

I am a Network Engineer. About 9 months ago, I had a job offer for a lot more money, UPS told me that they would match it, but couldn't do it for a few months. They basically strung me along until Tuesday when they told me that couldn't do it. I resigned immediately. I took a position temporarly with a friends company as a sales manager. After sending out an email telling everyone, some old friends emailed me with 5 job offers, so I am not worried. I had to resign out of principal. I really enjoyed working at UPS, but couldn't let them screw me like that.

Has anyone had the same thing happen to them and what did you do?

Rob

rob,

i understand the situation as you've described it and think i would have felt much the same and would have given a 2 week resignation notice. in any event, i hope you'll take a few days/weeks of personal time to decompress a bit... and, heck, maybe drive some of those hot rides in your sig file

best,
hal

 

[Joel]

Isn't that similar to a breach-of-contract and thus grounds for a lawsuit?

 

[queenlives]

Isn't that similar to a breach-of-contract and thus grounds for a lawsuit?

in many locations, it sure would be. regardless of whether verbal or written, there's a fair amount of personal time, stress and likely $'s needed to pursue. before heading down that path, i'd want to think through the "what's it really mean to me in the long run?" and act accordingly.

fwiw, i have recently opted to not pursue a previous employment-related breach because i felt it was not worth my time (many friends of mine feel otherwise; i feel karma wins out in the long run .

 

[CL65 Captain]

I am about to do the same... my airline, Comair, is a wholly owned subsidiary of Delta. Since they are in Bankruptsy they are taking advantage of the situation to rape our pilot contract. They have been renegotiating the leases for our airplanes and 5 went back to the lessors last month with another 11 this week. Therefore I am displaced from Capt back to First Officer as less planes means less pilots and everyone moves backwards and the ones at the bottom are out (furloughed). So I lose approximately 40% of my pay. Then to make matters worse, the company strong arms the pilot's union and gives them a "last, final offer" or we will liquidate the company and give your planes to Mesa Airlines or Chitaqua to fly since they are cheaper, bottom feeding scum. Well I know everyone in the industry is taking pay cuts, but the deal the company is offering is an absolute rape.... as a First Officer now I would take an ADDITIONAL 20% cut, in addition to the 40% reduction from going from Capt to FO. So now, after being here for 6+ years I would be flying jets for $35,000 a year! No raises until the end of the contract (3 yrs) and it's very, very modest at that... And then it will take 3-4 years to negotiate a new contract after that.

So the choice the pilots get to make next week is to vote in the crappy contract (besided pay, work rules and per deim are greatly reduced, retirement contribution gone, etc, etc) or vote no and they liquidate. As well, there are no guarantees if we vote yes that the airline won't keep shrinking and they eventually liquidate anyway.

Looking for a new job.

CL65 Captain now CL65 FO!

 

[Da Hapa]

I am about to do the same... my airline, Comair, is a wholly owned subsidiary of Delta. Since they are in Bankruptsy they are taking advantage of the situation to rape our pilot contract. They have been renegotiating the leases for our airplanes and 5 went back to the lessors last month with another 11 this week. Therefore I am displaced from Capt back to First Officer as less planes means less pilots and everyone moves backwards and the ones at the bottom are out (furloughed). So I lose approximately 40% of my pay. Then to make matters worse, the company strong arms the pilot's union and gives them a "last, final offer" or we will liquidate the company and give your planes to Mesa Airlines or Chitaqua to fly since they are cheaper, bottom feeding scum. Well I know everyone in the industry is taking pay cuts, but the deal the company is offering is an absolute rape.... as a First Officer now I would take an ADDITIONAL 20% cut, in addition to the 40% reduction from going from Capt to FO. So now, after being here for 6+ years I would be flying jets for $35,000 a year! No raises until the end of the contract (3 yrs) and it's very, very modest at that... And then it will take 3-4 years to negotiate a new contract after that.

So the choice the pilots get to make next week is to vote in the crappy contract (besided pay, work rules and per deim are greatly reduced, retirement contribution gone, etc, etc) or vote no and they liquidate. As well, there are no guarantees if we vote yes that the airline won't keep shrinking and they eventually liquidate anyway.

Looking for a new job.

CL65 Captain now CL65 FO!

That sucks.

I'm not an expert on this at all but as I understand it, Delta was one of the very few majors that didn't go whining to the govt. for bail outs after 9-11 and instead they tried to make a go of it on their own and now they're paying the price. To be more correct, their employees (read pilots) are paying the price.

Best of luck to you. I hope it all works out.

 

[TyraNSX]

nsxlover- I recently read an article explaining how if you get a competing offer and suddenly your current employer makes a lot of promises which won't kick in till later, it shows they are only reacting until they can find someone else. It said how if they really valued you it wouldn't have taken the chance of you leaving to make them show it. And the time they use to give you all the promises is the time they are using to find your replacement. So you really have 2 choices- take the offer (smart) or hang around getting left out of some things & waiting to get screwed (dumb). I think you did the right thing. A verbal contract isn't a real contract & I have been screwed on written ones. In the end, they are only as good as far as you can trust the other guy.

CL65, good luck. Sounds like time for a career change if possible. I'm betting all the CEO types are still making huge $ & getting big golden parachutes. Amazing how it's the little guy that always has to take a cut to save the company. How many little guys could stay if a few fat cats (the same ones who got into bankruptcy) got the ax for real? Quite a few I bet.

 

[khappucino]

i've always been given the advice that if you decide to leave your current company for whatever reason, and your current company throws a counter offer at you, that you generally shouldn't take it. 1) You obviously were unhappy with something about your previous company, enough at least that you pursued possible employment elsewhere, and in a way, taking the counter offer is like trading your happiness for some extra cheddar. (unless of course the situation is that you love your job 100%, but the pay totally sucks and you want more loot - i.e you arer a true mercenary :biggrin 2) After this your company knows that you are volatile and you may get the short end of the stick later after they can train someone else to take you place (cuz of course you are probably not leaving at a convenient time for them). 3) You will usually be 'out' of the club after trying to defect, people will treat you differently after that sort of thing, especially management. 4) Assuming #2 doesn't happen, they may hesitate to promote you into strategic positions because you may find something better later.

These is just my humble opinion, so if it doesn't ring true then ignore it :biggrin:

btw, the whole "we'll match that... but not today...." thing happens all the time. i've had many friends that had this scenario only to have the numbers never really materialize.

 

[MJK]

I think you did the right thing, principles are way more important than a paycheck. Besides, I assume network engineering is a fairly transferrable and in demand field. FWIW, I do also agree with TyraNSX and would add that I would trust 5/10 criminals LONG before anyone in corporate HR.

 

[fkong777]

cl65 captain - That Sux 35K as pilot?!!!! I dont know the industry but isnt there other jobs out there for pilots? I always thought experience commercial pilot was an elite group.

NSXlover - That's really unfair of UPS. because you are loosing money by staying with them. That good that you have so many job offers. I T is pretty tough to break into now. Im also a network engineer.. seriously it is not worth moving to another employer unless they offer 20+% more a year.

 

[Autophile]

I'm betting all the CEO types are still making huge $ & getting big golden parachutes.

I hate that phrase "golden parachute." It gives me the creeps. I think a "parachute sown with dollar bills" would be more palatable. :smile:

 

[IsR]

NSXlover, good to hear you have many options, one less thing to worry about hope you will find another company you enjoy working with.

CL65 Captain, depends on how many a/c type you've got on your licence and how willing you are working internationally(even nationally). There are jobs out there presently with good packages

 

[Acura NsX Pilot]

Typical of UPS as they hire a bunch of people for the holidays and give them promises of more pay and induction into the union in 6 months time but right after the big push they lay everyone off and maybe keep a very select few.

 

[W]

If I was going to leave, I would have waited until I had another job lined up (hopefully much higher paying as before). This is also based on principal, the principal of what's best for me. Of course, what's best for you is to resign immediately which is commendable.

 

[NSXrunner]

UPS is a joke man. I worked there (Laguna Hills hub) for two years while I was in college then quit 7 months after I graduated. The labor union runs the company wether they like to admit it or not. Part of the stipulation I overheard is that they NEED to make sure certain numbers of union people get full time corporate positions annually wether there is an opening or not. Wether or not this is true, who knows. But it does explain how complete morons get promoted and given management positions because they have tenure, even though they have the IQ of a wet sock. I asked a simple question on how to get a position at UPS corporate, my supervisor, manager, and even HR manager, ALL HAD DIFFERENT ANSWERS!! That is pathetic and unacceptable!!!

Bottom line is the only way to get anywhere in UPS is to stay there for at least 5 years and keeping your mouth shut. (Or brown nose till you're up someones butt enough) Once you have done your time, THEN you might get what you want. But I decided I have better things to do with my life than sit around and wait. Not to mention be in the company of some of the laziest and most overpaid people I have ever met. If you want benefits that are just plain kick ass and want a brain dead job and brain dead people to hang with, then by all means UPS is for you. Personally I'd rather be somewhere, where you EARN your money from the work you do, not from what some union contract says.

 

[CL65 Captain]

cl65 captain - That Sux 35K as pilot?!!!! I dont know the industry but isnt there other jobs out there for pilots? I always thought experience commercial pilot was an elite group.

Apparently not, since the NYC Transit works now make more than me... the market is very tight right now as there are thousands of other airline pilots on furlough right now. As well the new kids coming out of the aviation schools, even with 100k of debt, will fly for penuts (literally) - aka "Shinny Jet Syndrome".

So next time you are boarding that plane, or bitching about the service, remember you get what you pay for.... the Walmartization of the Airline Industry is in full swing.

BTW: Not selling my NSX!!!!!!!!

 

[AU_NSX]

I am about to do the same... my airline, Comair, is a wholly owned subsidiary of Delta. Since they are in Bankruptsy they are taking advantage of the situation to rape our pilot contract. They have been renegotiating the leases for our airplanes and 5 went back to the lessors last month with another 11 this week. Therefore I am displaced from Capt back to First Officer as less planes means less pilots and everyone moves backwards and the ones at the bottom are out (furloughed). So I lose approximately 40% of my pay. Then to make matters worse, the company strong arms the pilot's union and gives them a "last, final offer" or we will liquidate the company and give your planes to Mesa Airlines or Chitaqua to fly since they are cheaper, bottom feeding scum. Well I know everyone in the industry is taking pay cuts, but the deal the company is offering is an absolute rape.... as a First Officer now I would take an ADDITIONAL 20% cut, in addition to the 40% reduction from going from Capt to FO. So now, after being here for 6+ years I would be flying jets for $35,000 a year! No raises until the end of the contract (3 yrs) and it's very, very modest at that... And then it will take 3-4 years to negotiate a new contract after that.

So the choice the pilots get to make next week is to vote in the crappy contract (besided pay, work rules and per deim are greatly reduced, retirement contribution gone, etc, etc) or vote no and they liquidate. As well, there are no guarantees if we vote yes that the airline won't keep shrinking and they eventually liquidate anyway.

Looking for a new job.

CL65 Captain now CL65 FO!

It is very hard to go backwards in pay. Once you are used to it your standard of living adjusts to your income. However, I'm sure this is a temporary setbcak for you.

This happened in Australia back in the 80's during the Ansett Pilots strike (for better conditions). The Airline sacked every pilot that went on strike. The airline had anticipated the unions strike action and already had replacement pilots from overseas (mainly the US).

The sacked pilots either left the industry, accepted lower paying jobs with a regional airline or went overseas to fly with asian international carriers like Singapore Airlines...

On a positive note... Don't forget why you became a pilot... Whilst I was doing my pilots licence I was allowed to sit in the observation seat of a Cathay Pacific 747 landing at Kai Tak in Hong Kong. On the taxi back I expressed my excitement with a comment "That was awesome... You know that I pay to do what you guys get paid to do!" and the captain turned to me with a smile and said... "yes it is better than working for a living..."

Good luck...

 

[NetViper]

Best of luck Rob.

I don't blame you. My wife's company has been jerking her around a lot also. Thankfully it looks like they are coming through, but I would have told her to follow your lead.

 

[isellpower]

I would not fly on any plane with a pilot not making 6 figures. Faq that, at 400mph and 30K feet in the air I want the best money can buy.

 

[peiserg]

sorry to hear about your work problems. ahh well.. no one said life was fair, right?

I quit position on principal about 6 months ago. I'm sure sympathy will be in short supply, as the $$ was good. But, the situation being what it was, I offered my partners an option, they decided not to pursue it, and off I went. So if life was fair, i'd still be where i was, but oh well.
As an addendum to that, i had to sue them for my last 2 months residual income.. so you can see no love lost there...

:biggrin:

 

[CL65 Captain]

I would not fly on any plane with a pilot not making 6 figures. Faq that, at 400mph and 30K feet in the air I want the best money can buy.

If you ever get on a regional jet, then the combined income of all three crew members - Capt, FO and Flight Attendant might not break six figures.

1st year FA pay is $14,000
1st year First Officer pay $20,250
3rd year Capt pay $58,000

BTW: FO pay tops out at $37.5k after 9 years
CA pay tops out at $86k after 18 years.

at 400mph and 30K feet in the air I want the best money can buy.

As long as the ticket isnt more than $199 roundtrip. The Walmartization of the Airline Industy has just started.... but Walmart doesn't go to the employees to make up for mismanagement.

 

[isellpower]

If you ever get on a regional jet, then the combined income of all three crew members - Capt, FO and Flight Attendant might not break six figures.

1st year FA pay is $14,000
1st year First Officer pay $20,250
3rd year Capt pay $58,000

BTW: FO pay tops out at $37.5k after 9 years
CA pay tops out at $86k after 18 years.



As long as the ticket isnt more than $199 roundtrip. The Walmartization of the Airline Industy has just started.... but Walmart doesn't go to the employees to make up for mismanagement.

Take no offense to this because I would love to be a pilot if I had the balls, but don't truck drivers make more money? The guy that lives next to my mothers house is a driver for Werner and I'm quite sure he's in the 80K range due to his toys and home. With all of the math and physics that have to be mastered by a pilot, not to mention the speed and altitude, I cannot believe that some are on par with a guy that drives an 18 wheeler.

 

[CL65 Captain]

Right now the airline industry is in a supply an demand problem. There is an over capacity of seats, combined with high fuel prices. The airline industry is unique in that your job bennifits (scheduling and pay) is determined by your seniority. If you work for an airline that treats its employees like crap and starts demanding money out of their pocket and you decide to leave then you have to start at the bottom of someone else's list. This industry is one of the few that demands employees pay for management's missmanaging. At Delta, Leo Mullin, racked up HUGE debts in order to stay out of bankruptsy and then sold off their fuel hedges to get cash. The gamble was a complete failure and Delta went from the most financialy stable airline pre 9-11 to probably the one that is closest to liquidation (except maybe NW). Therefore they had to go to the employees pockets to try and keep it a going concern.

At the regional level, the situation is even worse. Management has created a portfolio concept and what is called "pay to play". They have several regional carriers feeding mainline and even though the regionals are profitable, they tell the pilots if you don't give up pay then we are going to transfer your planes to another regional who will do it cheaper. It started two years ago when J. Ornstein at Mesa Airlines started an alter ego non union airline called Freedom Air and started transfering assets from Mesa to Freedom. The Mesa pilots had three options, sign a concessionary contract for little pay and work rules, go on strike and walk away from their jobs, or sit back and watch Freedom slowly take over their planes and routes. They caved in and signed an awful contract. Next was Chitaqua Airlines. Their CEO told them they couldn't compete with Mesa unless they took a pay cut. He started an alter ego called Republic Airlines and thus the Chitaqua pilots also took a concessionary contract. And how Mesaba (NW Airlink), Comair (Delta Connection) and Express Jet (Continental) have been all told "pay to play" or we will transfer your flying to the bottom feeders.

Frank Lorenzo did the same thing to Eastern Airlines, but the Mechanics told him to F off and thus the demise of Eastern. The NW mechanics walked off the job this year and have been replaced.... signs of the times. Scabs took over the maintenance for NW and nobody cares as long as they get their $199 round trip ticket.

I am 36, no wife or kids and have other job skills.... anyone need a website? (former profession). But others that I work with feel they can't do anything else other than fly or are too old or settled to start over, therefore they will vote this new concessionary Letter of Agreement in and gut our contract. In 2000 we (Comair) went on strike for 89 days to raise the bar and get a "liveable" wage for regional pilots. Shortly thereafter Mesa, Chitaqua and others began the race to the bottom - cheapest labor wins!

2006 and 2007 will been good years for the airlines.... if fuel remains constant or goes down they will make money. You will probably see a few mergers and reduction of capacity to allow fares to go up. Pilots are leaving the insdustry in droves and eventually you will see wages stabilize, but it will take years of barganing to recoup even a fraction of the lost wages of 2005.

 

[nsxlover]

CL65 Captain,

I really feel for you, it makes my situation not seem so bad. I used to fly choppers in the military and considered doing it when I got out, but went into I.T instead. Is the industry any better in the private sector, I.E Fed Ex, UPS etc? If you have a ton of hours, that may be an alternative for you. The airline industry is struggling.

Hope it works out for you.

Rob

 

[CL65 Captain]

I am right at the point where I am competitive on hours - 5000 TT, 3800 Multi and 1800 jet PIC.

UPS and Fedex are hiring in small numbers, I have applied to both but you need interal recommendations to even have a shot... and they both have something like 10,000 apllication on file. They are both going through contract negotiations now so there is alot of bad blood between management and the pilot group.

Corporate is tough to get into, espcially coming from the airlines. You usually need a type rating for the specific plane they are flying and time in type. Why would xyz Corp hire me and have to pay 10k for me to be typed in their Falcon if they can get someone who is allready typed. Unfortunately for me, my type is the CL65 (Canadair Regional Jet) which even though it is more or less the same as a Canadair Challenger 604 still requires getting the CL604 type. The ones that will pay for your type are there, but the QOL and pay is awful - thus the reason they can't keep pilots and can't find people arleady typed.

Fractional is another way to go and they are hiring, but the pay sucks until you make Capt which is running about 5 year give or take at for example Netjets. And the schedule is 7 on, 7 off.

I think I am going to find a head-hunter and get back into IT, or try to start a business doing Home Theater consulting for new Home Builders.

Jim