On my '94, I changed my timing belt at its 75,000 mile service. Seemed like an appropriate time...
-Bob
-Bob
How old is your timing belt
- Thread starter nutonsx
- Start date
Could someone tell me how I would go about seraching for a service record for my NSX?
I need to do my timing belt as well, but it may have already been done... probably at an Acura dealership. Is there some dealer or service I can call that may have a record of it? I will definitely do it, but I want to put in the time first in case it's been done. It will save me a thousand dollars.
It was purchased from a dealer (non Acura). According to them, it was taken away from a previous owner due to bankrupcy. I doubt the dealer has any records (I will check) and there is no contact with the previous owner.
Any services I am unfamiliar with that I can use? What else can I do to try and check?
I need to do my timing belt as well, but it may have already been done... probably at an Acura dealership. Is there some dealer or service I can call that may have a record of it? I will definitely do it, but I want to put in the time first in case it's been done. It will save me a thousand dollars.
It was purchased from a dealer (non Acura). According to them, it was taken away from a previous owner due to bankrupcy. I doubt the dealer has any records (I will check) and there is no contact with the previous owner.
Any services I am unfamiliar with that I can use? What else can I do to try and check?
ICBW, but I believe the Acura dealer service records are not connected across a network. However, you could call the dealer(s) in the area where the car was located to see if they have service records on the car. If you're not sure where the car was located, you could run a carfax to find out.
I've got a 91 with 54k on the original belt. All Acuras that my family has owned (5 or 6) have had their belts changed. Even a Legend with 270K on the odometer. Guess what. All belts looked good. Not saying the risk should be had, but nice knowing Honda puts the good stuff in there in the first place! But this is an NSX so it's probably time to do the dirty deed.
I have 18k miles on my '91 and am reticent to spend over a grand replacing the belt. I replaced it on my first NSX and promptly crashed it two months later. While we all discuss the probabilities of a catastrophic problem, how many of you have experienced a problem with the belt or know of someone who has?
You can't tell if a timing belt is good just by looking at it. It may look good on the outside but you don't know what's going on underneath the surface. There is a safe life expectancy for a timing belt and I wouldn't recommend going that far beyond the factory recommended interval for this service.
I feel at ease driving the car hard at track events not having to worry about a ticking time bomb behind me.
Vytas
Just to review:
When the timing belt in an NSX breaks (and it will eventually if not changed according to the service interval—Mark Basch says he’s seen 3 break), then the cams stop spinning and therefore the valves stop going up&down in time with the piston strokes and because the NSX has an interference engine design (unlike many American cars), some of the pistons will hit the valves. If you’re really lucky, (depending on where the cams stop) then only some of the valves (probably ½ of them) will be bent and you’re only talking about removing the heads and putting in some new valves (valves only cost around $30 each…but getting to them will cost$$$). But most likely, a few valves will be fully extended in the cylinder and will pulverize the piston, rod and cylinder wall and who knows, maybe even screw up the crankshaft! That’s some really cool stuff we’re talking about wrecking. So would any NSX owner even question the service interval?
DanO
When the timing belt in an NSX breaks (and it will eventually if not changed according to the service interval—Mark Basch says he’s seen 3 break), then the cams stop spinning and therefore the valves stop going up&down in time with the piston strokes and because the NSX has an interference engine design (unlike many American cars), some of the pistons will hit the valves. If you’re really lucky, (depending on where the cams stop) then only some of the valves (probably ½ of them) will be bent and you’re only talking about removing the heads and putting in some new valves (valves only cost around $30 each…but getting to them will cost$$$). But most likely, a few valves will be fully extended in the cylinder and will pulverize the piston, rod and cylinder wall and who knows, maybe even screw up the crankshaft! That’s some really cool stuff we’re talking about wrecking. So would any NSX owner even question the service interval?
DanO
Just as an aside: the recommended interval for changing the timing belt is 90,000 for 1991-1996 and 105,000 for 1997-1998 according to Gates Rubber, manufacturer of belts and hoses which varies slightly from the factory recommendation. Gates makes no reference to a time interval.
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The NSX Model List Page
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The NSX Model List Page
Posting this only because it specifically references Honda belts and because I have never heard of a "lifetime" belt before!
from the Kelly Blue Book site:
"Timing Belt Failure Is Rare Occurrence"
A timing belt is a reinforced rubber belt, which transfers the engine motion to the camshaft to operate the cylinder valves. The belt runs on a pulley from the crankshaft to the camshaft.
Although timing belts are critical, it is not true that they should be regularly replaced unless explicitly recommended in the owner's manual. If the manual makes no mention of it, a regular inspection every 15,000 miles should indicate when the belt is wearing out.
To inspect a timing belt, a shroud or cover must be removed. Often, this can be expensive, leading to the advice that "You might just as well replace the belt while I'm at it." That's terrible advice, because the belt replacement can cost more than $200 and the inspection should cost much less than 25.
Many timing belts can go more than 100,000 miles without failing. The belt in your Honda is designated by the manufacturer as a "lifetime belt," meaning you certainly can expect to get more than 100,000 miles from it.
If the belt is found during inspection to be cracked, frayed or worn down, then you should consider replacing it. Having a mechanic experienced with your make of car is critical in such a case. You don't necessarily need a dealership mechanic, because many independent mechanics are familiar with specific makes and can provide adequate service. But if you have a general mechanic who is not familiar with assessing the condition of Honda timing belts, then most likely he or she will err on the conservative side, and you can count on getting a new belt whether you need one or not.
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The NSX Model List Page
from the Kelly Blue Book site:
"Timing Belt Failure Is Rare Occurrence"
A timing belt is a reinforced rubber belt, which transfers the engine motion to the camshaft to operate the cylinder valves. The belt runs on a pulley from the crankshaft to the camshaft.
Although timing belts are critical, it is not true that they should be regularly replaced unless explicitly recommended in the owner's manual. If the manual makes no mention of it, a regular inspection every 15,000 miles should indicate when the belt is wearing out.
To inspect a timing belt, a shroud or cover must be removed. Often, this can be expensive, leading to the advice that "You might just as well replace the belt while I'm at it." That's terrible advice, because the belt replacement can cost more than $200 and the inspection should cost much less than 25.
Many timing belts can go more than 100,000 miles without failing. The belt in your Honda is designated by the manufacturer as a "lifetime belt," meaning you certainly can expect to get more than 100,000 miles from it.
If the belt is found during inspection to be cracked, frayed or worn down, then you should consider replacing it. Having a mechanic experienced with your make of car is critical in such a case. You don't necessarily need a dealership mechanic, because many independent mechanics are familiar with specific makes and can provide adequate service. But if you have a general mechanic who is not familiar with assessing the condition of Honda timing belts, then most likely he or she will err on the conservative side, and you can count on getting a new belt whether you need one or not.
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The NSX Model List Page
Don't overlook those seven little words: "unless explicitly recommended in the owner's manual".
(I guess I'm anal enough to count words too.
)
(I guess I'm anal enough to count words too.
I have a dumb question ???
What about timing chains?
I'm a bit too young to know if I'm right or not, but I thought cars use to have chains? Or was my mechanic just fooling with me?
My Mustang's timing belt broke when I was 18 and on a date with the Home Coming Queen. Really pissed me off
What about timing chains?
I'm a bit too young to know if I'm right or not, but I thought cars use to have chains? Or was my mechanic just fooling with me?
My Mustang's timing belt broke when I was 18 and on a date with the Home Coming Queen. Really pissed me off
Originally posted by NSXocto:
I have a dumb question ???
What about timing chains?
I'm a bit too young to know if I'm right or not, but I thought cars use to have chains? Or was my mechanic just fooling with me?
My Mustang's timing belt broke when I was 18 and on a date with the Home Coming Queen. Really pissed me off
No, your mechanic was not fooling with you. Cars did indeed used to have timing chains. I don't know which cars still have them but I'm sure that there are some...
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The NSX Model List Page
There are many still with chains instead of belts.... Every car I have ever owned except the NSX has had a chain. They were all American pre-70 Muscle. Remember the double roller timing chains? Talk about high performance........
You know, I miss the timing chain! A good timing chain has the same kind of charm as a fine mechanical watch. There doesn't seem to be any craftsmanship involved in a rubber band with teeth but a timing chain? The chain itself is a thing of mechanical beauty, of course, but there is more: finely crafted hydraulic tensioners, sprockets that are almost art - the last one that I worked on even had a "dog" that could only be engaged when at TDC and locked in place! Rubber bands? Cheap and nasty looking. Timing chains are a good thing! Where's that guy who said machines don't have souls...
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The NSX Model List Page
As I understand it, timing chains are usually reserved for cars with larger engines.
It is cheaper to use a belt than a chain which is why most vehicles have gone to using belts. However, you would think that a high performance automobile like the NSX - which runs at unusually high RPMs - would have a chain. Maybe Honda will get it right in 2004 when the new model comes out!
It is cheaper to use a belt than a chain which is why most vehicles have gone to using belts. However, you would think that a high performance automobile like the NSX - which runs at unusually high RPMs - would have a chain. Maybe Honda will get it right in 2004 when the new model comes out!
Most modern BMW engines have timing chains, and they range from 2.5 liters to 5.0 liters (including the M3 and M5) so it doesn't appear a displacement related thing. Probably more a design issue than anything else. I've never owned a car with a timing belt before my NSX. It scares me that the only thing between me and a massive engine rebuild is a rubber band...
I believe that Mark Basch says he has seen three. One of the ones mentioned on the list was apparently caused by debris entering the belt cover. Davis Acura claim to have seen several including one with 62,000 miles that included some track use and an 8 year old belt that they described as loose, sloppy, and dry rotted. Conversely, in 1999 Kent Shepley of American Honda Motor said that they had not seen any. Davis says that AHM would not have records of most timing belt failures since they occur well outside of the warranty period.
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The NSX Model List Page
It scares me that the only thing between me and a massive engine rebuild is a rubber band...
Don't worry. If there was one design objective that took precedence over all others, it was reliability. Which is not to say that nothing will ever go wrong, but it seems it was their highest priority.
Don't worry. If there was one design objective that took precedence over all others, it was reliability. Which is not to say that nothing will ever go wrong, but it seems it was their highest priority.
The new RSX uses a timing chain. I read over an RSX tech manual while my 01 GSR was being serviced. Pointing this out to the tech, he said it was a good thing but on the other side, it will be lost business since there will be no more timing belts to replace on the newer cars.
I saw a timing chain from a 150K miles Mercedes years ago. It was split apart and layed on the ground, over three feet long. Grabbing the ends of the chain, you could pull the chain apart and then compress it inward. The movement was well over an inch! The links in the chain had become so worn allowing for all that play. No fear of breakage but the play in the chain was staring to affect the performance of the engine.
Vytas
- Joined
- 3 February 2000
- Messages
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Timing chains are still used on a fair number of cars, though they tend to be less common cars. One of the reasons for the switch to belts is that chains tend to be noisier.
Timing chains are not magic - they can fail too. If you replace your timing belt at the recommended interval the risk of belt failure is very small. Nobody can guarantee any part on any car will never, ever fail, but I can guarantee that if you run any car long enough without changing the timing belt, it WILL eventually fail. How far you want to push it is up to you.
Replacing the timing belt is not an "engine teardown" at all, though it is an involved procedure and obviously there is a possibility for something to be done wrong.
Timing chains are not magic - they can fail too. If you replace your timing belt at the recommended interval the risk of belt failure is very small. Nobody can guarantee any part on any car will never, ever fail, but I can guarantee that if you run any car long enough without changing the timing belt, it WILL eventually fail. How far you want to push it is up to you.
Replacing the timing belt is not an "engine teardown" at all, though it is an involved procedure and obviously there is a possibility for something to be done wrong.
Please don't chance it. A few years back while driving home from work, my '89 CRX Si suddenly died and wouldn't re-start. Turns out the timing belt had broke and bent 15 of the car's 16 valves! The belt was the original one which was about 10 years old and had 105,000 miles on it. It was supposed to be "ok" to go to 90k on this belt, so I figured since I was only about 10% over the recommendation I would "ok" for now.
The dealer quoted $2200 to fix it, which was slightly more than half of the car's current blue book value. I ended up having it fixed by my brother for about $600 in parts and machine shop work. I wouldn't even want to think what an engine rebuild would cost at the dealer for an NSX. I bet you wouldn't escape for any less than $10,000. That's just too much to risk when you know the belt WILL eventually break.
The first thing I had done when I bought my '91 with 55K mi last year was have the timing belt changed.
[This message has been edited by BB (edited 27 October 2001).]
The dealer quoted $2200 to fix it, which was slightly more than half of the car's current blue book value. I ended up having it fixed by my brother for about $600 in parts and machine shop work. I wouldn't even want to think what an engine rebuild would cost at the dealer for an NSX. I bet you wouldn't escape for any less than $10,000. That's just too much to risk when you know the belt WILL eventually break.
The first thing I had done when I bought my '91 with 55K mi last year was have the timing belt changed.
[This message has been edited by BB (edited 27 October 2001).]
Timing chains need looked at and replaced just as a belt would. The chains however tend to stretch and become loose. All the big horspower v-8 engines actually switch from the chain style to a Jesel belt drive system. So the big horsepower guys want to switch from the chain to a belt.
- Joined
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- 232
Looking at the engine compartment in my '93, it looks as though a part of the front section of the timing belt cover(on the engine directly behind the passenger seat) might be removable to inspect the belt. Anybody know if it's possible to remove part of the cover for inspection of the belt? I know that the outward appearance of the belt doesn't necessarily predict whether it's likely to fail, but it would be reassuring to see a "pristine"-appearing belt; and on the other hand a worn-looking belt might prompt me to get it replaced sooner.
It's easy to inspect the belt by removing the front valve cover and rotating the crankshaft (always clockwise) by hand. Most likely, your belt will look new. Follow this link to see how to remove the front cover and rotate the crankshaft: http://www.danoland.com/nsxgarage/valve/valve_clearance.htm
You do not need to remove the front timing belt cover (the cover you are describing in your post) to inspect the belt and the valve cover needs to come off first before this cover can be removed.
DanO
You do not need to remove the front timing belt cover (the cover you are describing in your post) to inspect the belt and the valve cover needs to come off first before this cover can be removed.
DanO
