How is the new NSX supposed to compete with this???

As I have said before, the new NSX is closest to the P1, just not as extreme, and hopefully with more real-world pricing and availability.
The P1 is a game changer - the new NSX too will be moving the landscape forward by embracing the positives of electric power to enhance and negate the need for a big displacement engine, by being smarter than dumb horsepower, and overcoming the downsides of turbocharging (necessary for upcoming euro emission regulations).
 
The P1's 'torque fill' (with the electric motors) is interesting but is it as practical in the NSX? The P1 is strictly RWD so adding/removing electric power doesn't change the balance of the car. Two of the three electric motors are in the front of the NSX so depending on how electric power is added the car would be shifting from a more RWD to a somewhat AWD setup. I'm assuming that's less ideal?
 
Interesting thread. I've read through it all. A few thoughts:

1) Pricing. The magic question. Does Acura price it aggressively to generate buzz and sales (halo car) or competitively to generate profits? A Porsche GT3 starts at $130K. That's a "stripper", but an amazing machine with a long history and pedigree. At $130K it's an amazing machine, and at least to me, well worth the money. So if Acura goes for buzz, expected a price under $130K. At much above $130K the market for pure drivers, in my opinion, shifts to the Porsche.

2) Excitement. Frankly I agree with some earlier posters. I remember the original NSX as a "great value", but not as a "got to have it" car. By many measures it beat the top cars of the day - Ferrari/Porsche - but in the excitement and "pedigree" level it fell short. And at the end it was the rebates that moved the cars off the lot. That doesn't make it a bad car, far from it, but as a pure driving toy it fell short.

3) Driving Feel/Fun. Porsche/Ferrari are amazing cars - but what makes them highly desirable is their focus. They are designed to be what they are - true sports cars. I've owned both marques. They are in many ways Apples/Oranges, but in one way they share a common goal - focus. The cars are fun to drive. The steering feel of a Ferrari is unlike any other car. To me that's what separates it from anything else. I can feel everything going on with the car. That makes it engaging, fun and always puts a smile on my face. The Porsche is a bit different, but in its own way equally engaging. Unfortunately, as much as I enjoyed driving the first gen NSX it never reached the level of fun/feel that either the Porsche of Ferrari does.

4) Ownership cost. This is where the NSX should easily win. Upkeep for a Ferrari is similar to that of a plane, and for the same reason. Ferrari views their car as a race machine that needs routine (expensive) upkeep. But the reward is having a specialty tool to enjoy during every ride. The Porsche was less expensive to maintain, but not inexpensive. It too was a joy to drive, but I still prefer the Ferrari (yes, I admit - some of it is due to reputation, but there is also the art of the car. Put it on a lift and look at the underside - open the engine bay and see how it's designed and constructed. Run you hand along it when you wash it. Each of these things brings joy to the heart - worth it to some, not to all). The unknown is depreciation. Ferrari historically holds value well, the 360 and earlier cars are pretty much depreciated, with minimal future downside. The great unknown is repair costs - one way or another you pay for depreciation. Porsche still is depreciating, and will for many years as new model updates increase HP and features. The NSX should hold value for the initial year/two, but hard to know what's after that. I'd expect it to hold but anything can happen, especially with all of the newer cars coming off lease in a few years.

5) Intangibles. The NSX appeals for lots of reasons - hybrid/design/cost/etc. For many it's the ideal car. I get that. But it also has a lot of competition. I think the intangibles will matter a lot. In one way it competes with the new La Ferrari, a top line hybrid "supercar", but on another I don't see many people cross shopping the two marques. The new Corvette is an amazing machine on paper - but for many it's a "kid's car" - a "wannabe" in a sea of alternatives. That is an unfair characterization - I very much enjoyed driving one, but if you close your eyes and remove any markings of the car you'll easily prefer a Porsche/Ferrari for the "intangibles". Those cars have the pedals perfectly placed, steering is immediately responsive and gives great feedback, build quality reinforces the pride of ownership. The Corvette fails many of those tests - at least for me. If Acura can nail these items with the new NSX it should be interesting.

I'd love to have a reason to trade my car in on the NSX, and I do have a deposit down, but until I get to drive it and compare it's still a work in progress for me.

I'm not trying to troll - just trying to make a logical decision on an emotional purchase. It's almost impossible. I'm sure I'm not alone. I wish Acura all the success in the world. After all who wouldn't want a Ferrari/Porsche alternative that you can drive everyday and maintain without taking out a mortgage?
 
Interesting thread. I've read through it all. A few thoughts:

1) Pricing. The magic question. Does Acura price it aggressively to generate buzz and sales (halo car) or competitively to generate profits? A Porsche GT3 starts at $130K. That's a "stripper", but an amazing machine with a long history and pedigree. At $130K it's an amazing machine, and at least to me, well worth the money. So if Acura goes for buzz, expected a price under $130K. At much above $130K the market for pure drivers, in my opinion, shifts to the Porsche.

2) Excitement. Frankly I agree with some earlier posters. I remember the original NSX as a "great value", but not as a "got to have it" car. By many measures it beat the top cars of the day - Ferrari/Porsche - but in the excitement and "pedigree" level it fell short. And at the end it was the rebates that moved the cars off the lot. That doesn't make it a bad car, far from it, but as a pure driving toy it fell short.

3) Driving Feel/Fun. Porsche/Ferrari are amazing cars - but what makes them highly desirable is their focus. They are designed to be what they are - true sports cars. I've owned both marques. They are in many ways Apples/Oranges, but in one way they share a common goal - focus. The cars are fun to drive. The steering feel of a Ferrari is unlike any other car. To me that's what separates it from anything else. I can feel everything going on with the car. That makes it engaging, fun and always puts a smile on my face. The Porsche is a bit different, but in its own way equally engaging. Unfortunately, as much as I enjoyed driving the first gen NSX it never reached the level of fun/feel that either the Porsche of Ferrari does.

4) Ownership cost. This is where the NSX should easily win. Upkeep for a Ferrari is similar to that of a plane, and for the same reason. Ferrari views their car as a race machine that needs routine (expensive) upkeep. But the reward is having a specialty tool to enjoy during every ride. The Porsche was less expensive to maintain, but not inexpensive. It too was a joy to drive, but I still prefer the Ferrari (yes, I admit - some of it is due to reputation, but there is also the art of the car. Put it on a lift and look at the underside - open the engine bay and see how it's designed and constructed. Run you hand along it when you wash it. Each of these things brings joy to the heart - worth it to some, not to all). The unknown is depreciation. Ferrari historically holds value well, the 360 and earlier cars are pretty much depreciated, with minimal future downside. The great unknown is repair costs - one way or another you pay for depreciation. Porsche still is depreciating, and will for many years as new model updates increase HP and features. The NSX should hold value for the initial year/two, but hard to know what's after that. I'd expect it to hold but anything can happen, especially with all of the newer cars coming off lease in a few years.

5) Intangibles. The NSX appeals for lots of reasons - hybrid/design/cost/etc. For many it's the ideal car. I get that. But it also has a lot of competition. I think the intangibles will matter a lot. In one way it competes with the new La Ferrari, a top line hybrid "supercar", but on another I don't see many people cross shopping the two marques. The new Corvette is an amazing machine on paper - but for many it's a "kid's car" - a "wannabe" in a sea of alternatives. That is an unfair characterization - I very much enjoyed driving one, but if you close your eyes and remove any markings of the car you'll easily prefer a Porsche/Ferrari for the "intangibles". Those cars have the pedals perfectly placed, steering is immediately responsive and gives great feedback, build quality reinforces the pride of ownership. The Corvette fails many of those tests - at least for me. If Acura can nail these items with the new NSX it should be interesting.

I'd love to have a reason to trade my car in on the NSX, and I do have a deposit down, but until I get to drive it and compare it's still a work in progress for me.

I'm not trying to troll - just trying to make a logical decision on an emotional purchase. It's almost impossible. I'm sure I'm not alone. I wish Acura all the success in the world. After all who wouldn't want a Ferrari/Porsche alternative that you can drive everyday and maintain without taking out a mortgage?

I like the rational justifications for an emotional buy.

I think the Ferrari experience/excitement has a lot of to do with the exhaust note and as we all know, pedigree/brand recognition. Let's face it, brands have been established now and the majority of the public will not get excited for Acura/Honda like they would for any Ferrari. Perhaps in a far future when Acura can revamp their lineup and brand. However, branding is not substance.

I've test driven a F355 spider tho. It was a blast to drive, but honestly, I still prefer the feel and handling of my older 92 NSX on an overall level. The Honda build quality and interior refinement was better IMO, but the sound of the Ferrari was really special and it truly adds to the revs of the car when driving it. The NSX engine sounds good, but it not quite as exotic in that department.

I think Honda will match if not offer a superior refinement and detailing given current concept designs for the NSX interior and the rumors that the 458 Italia's interior was designed by Honda designers. I think if Honda really wants to generate excitement, it needs a very aggressive/unique exhaust note for the engine, that doesn't just sound like another 6 cylinder such as a 370Z, GTR or even Porsche. Obviously, a V8 or V10 would naturally sound more exotic, but I think it would be really special if they can get a V6 to sound truly unique.

We know it's going to be fast and competitive, but the unique exhaust note is what let's you know it's coming before you even see it. I truly believe this what will win people over when they are in the driver seat or even watching it fly by.
 
Ferrari has a strange way of publishing the weight of its car. They use dry weight and dry weight may not include battery. There is a lot of threads on ferrariChat.com discussing the actual weight of the 458. Depending on options, owners have weight their cars on calibrated scales ranging from 3400 - 3500 lbs with full tank and no occupants. Ferrari reported the Speciale (what a F--up name) is close to a 200 lbs reduction, which bring us to 3200-3300 lbs Speciale with full tank.

No easy feat nevertheless but its not a standardize comparision when one company use dry weight vs another. For the record, Car and Driver measured it at 3450 for an standard 458. Most reports will just use the Mfr spec, which again is dry weight.

Given NSX curb weight at around 3000 lbs for Zanardi to 3150 for NSX-T, I expect Gen 2 to come in close to 3400 lbs with the extra safety gear, hybrid, and DSG. Granted carbon here and there will cut some weight but weight reduction will be greatly offset by gains in additional hardware.

There is chatter on a lightweight NSX variant, not the Type R variant, but a Mugen lightweight version (will not be called Mugen in the US) without Hybrid and RWD only. I expect this one to be 300 lbs lighter then standard fare NSX.
 
N Spec, let's hope the new NSX doesn't sound anything like current Formula 1, which is unanimously and universally hated.

anyways, the question was asked how the new NSX would compete with the 458 Speciale, Lamborghini may have just moved the target upward:

https://autos.yahoo.com/blogs/motor...ghini-huracán-to-the-edge-182429494.html?vp=1

610 horsepower, AWD, 3100 lbs. bloody hell...:biggrin:

Yea, that was a good read. I like it so far. This may be on the to-buy list in 10 years instead of the new NSX or Gallardo :rolleyes:

And yea, perhaps if F1 continued using the V10s, we would be getting a V10 NSX...
 
3300 to 3400 sounds about right for a base 458. as with motorcycles, reporting the weight as "dry" is rather dumb as you can't drive your car without fuel, oil, radiator fluid, hydraulic fluid, etc. but that is of course the lighter number, hence why manufacturers do it.

if the 458 Speciale, Huracan (pronounced ooh-ri-khan) and new NSX come in around 3000 to 3100 pounds wet, that is a very significant achievement. especially with two of those three making 600 or more horsepower. and that's how you build a proper Supercar...

p.s. bring on that Superleggera NSX, at 2800 lbs. and RWD fuel engine only...
 
3300 to 3400 sounds about right for a base 458. as with motorcycles, reporting the weight as "dry" is rather dumb as you can't drive your car without fuel, oil, radiator fluid, hydraulic fluid, etc. but that is of course the lighter number, hence why manufacturers do it.

if the 458 Speciale, Huracan (pronounced ooh-ri-khan) and new NSX come in around 3000 to 3100 pounds wet, that is a very significant achievement. especially with two of those three making 600 or more horsepower. and that's how you build a proper Supercar...

p.s. bring on that Superleggera NSX, at 2800 lbs. and RWD fuel engine only...

I think the Huracan will probably weigh 3300 lbs wet and the Speciale could probably be 3200 lbs. I hope they can get the NSX to be 3200 lbs. The RLX only gain ~400 lbs with the hybrid stuff and we all know the original NSX chassis can get down to 2800 lbs 20 years ago, so today's tech should be able to offset the extra safety weight.
 
N Spec, let's hope the new NSX doesn't sound anything like current Formula 1, which is unanimously and universally hated.

anyways, the question was asked how the new NSX would compete with the 458 Speciale, Lamborghini may have just moved the target upward:

https://autos.yahoo.com/blogs/motor...ghini-huracán-to-the-edge-182429494.html?vp=1

610 horsepower, AWD, 3100 lbs. bloody hell...:biggrin:

Cool video, cool car. I like the styling a great deal too but overall, I do like the the new NSX's styling even more. Love its sharp edges.

Can't wait to see a comparison between the Huracan, 911 Turbo, 458 replacement, McLaren 650S and the NSX.
 
Just thought I'd throw this out there
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</nav></header><hgroup style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding: 16px; text-align: center;">[h=1]EXCLUSIVE PROOF: The Mid-Engined Chevrolet Corvette Is Happening![/h][h=2]Our exclusive mule sighting confirms that Chevrolet means mid-engine business.[/h]</hgroup>
  • JANUARY 2015
  • BY DON SHERMAN
  • PHOTOS BY CHRIS DOANE AUTOMOTIVE
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Behold, mid-engine Corvette fans: The car you’ve waited patiently for Chevrolet to build has finally evolved beyond titillating concepts to the engineering mule revealed here. An 82-second strike by our recon op resulted in 15 frames before security narcs dropped the curtain on this black test car—with its two occupants still inside.
Don’t fret over the pointy-pickup camouflage; more attractive attire will follow. Instead take solace in a cabin hugging the front axle, ample space between the cockpit and the rear wheels for the hot parts, and this Corvette’s crouched and ready attitude.
The nose clip is from Holden's Commodore SSV (with even wider flares), while the cabin module, roof, and exterior mirrors are hand-me-downs from today’s Stingray. A Holden SSV ute’s sheetmetal wraps door to door around the heinie. The wing keeps the tail planted during high-speed runs and what could be more practical than the bumper-mounted 2-by-10 for shoving this test sled back to the garage when it breaks down? Other items of note: The fuel-filler located on the driver’s-side B-pillar and the cooling intakes located along the rocker panels.
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Scaling the span between the axles using the wheels as guides (we’re estimating them at 19 inches in diameter) yields a projected wheelbase of 98.9 inches, some eight inches shorter than that of today’s Corvette. That blueprint upgrade comes from bumping the transmission from ahead of to behind the rear axle as God and Dr. Porsche intended. A tighter wheelbase quickens steering response and cinches up the turning circle. It goes without saying that at least 60 percent of this probable Corvette ZR1’s mass will be supported by the rear wheels, enhancing launch traction and balls-out braking. There are rumblings that the engine bay may eventually play host to a small, 3.5- to 4.0-liter V-8 with all the fixin’s—meaning no pushrods.
Thus far GM has issued no denials discrediting our most recent (and highly detailed) mid-engine Corvette forecasts. While there’s no fresh intel regarding launch timing, the fact that experimental hardware has left the laboratory suggests that the C8 Zora sports car is on schedule to roll into showrooms in about 20 months as a 2017 model, at which point it will be sold alongside the front-engined Corvette. Place your orders now or find yourself stuck at the back of a long delivery line.
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GM just announced the 2015 Corvette will have 650hp, so most powerful American car ever http://www.autoweek.com/article/20140606/carnews/140609913

After expecting that the Z06/Z07 Corvette will crush the standard bearers, I was surprised by this Head 2 Head comparison with the GTR. Its like they have hit the wall in terms of Front Engine/Rear Wheel Drive performance. Also really gets me stoked about the all wheel drive potential of the NSX.

Video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5F18o8xayA
 
After expecting that the Z06/Z07 Corvette will crush the standard bearers, I was surprised by this Head 2 Head comparison with the GTR. Its like they have hit the wall in terms of Front Engine/Rear Wheel Drive performance. Also really gets me stoked about the all wheel drive potential of the NSX.

Video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5F18o8xayA

I can tell you as an owner of a new Z07 that the FR format has in fact reached its pinnacle. The Z will be let out of the barn...if I can get my hands on an NSX. My ZR1 on the other hand, will always remain in my collection.

I've always admired the NSX, but never owned one. This 2nd gen car peaked my interest back in 2012, and like many here, I've been patiently waiting...
 
I've always admired the NSX, but never owned one. This 2nd gen car peaked my interest back in 2012, and like many here, I've been patiently waiting...

Wow Quagmire, that's encouraging. For all the criticism by Primers of Acura's marketing strategy (i.e. the early NSX reveal), you may be proof that it has its merits. Or would you have waited anyway?
 
After expecting that the Z06/Z07 Corvette will crush the standard bearers, I was surprised by this Head 2 Head comparison with the GTR. Its like they have hit the wall in terms of Front Engine/Rear Wheel Drive performance. Also really gets me stoked about the all wheel drive potential of the NSX.

Video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5F18o8xayA

I wonder if the Corvette had active aero spoiler, if that would have helped it on the high speed straights. That rear wing is rather ridiculous.

I think it makes too much torque and traction was clearly an issue as usual for the big block, American muscle car. The Nismo GTR was pulling much higher speeds out of many corners during the side-by-side.

It would be interesting to see the difference of the same engine in a mid-engine Corvette...
 
GTRs are under rated power wise. Plus Z06s seem to have heat soak issues. Despite putting more power to the ground than a 2015 Viper, the Z06 is slower in a straight line:

The Z06 and Viper leave a lot of time on the table due to their manual transmissions slower shift speed.

http://youtu.be/kSd1aZHqMTg
 
Wow Quagmire, that's encouraging. For all the criticism by Primers of Acura's marketing strategy (i.e. the early NSX reveal), you may be proof that it has its merits. Or would you have waited anyway?

I can honestly say that the early reveal certainly put the NSX on my radar. At the time, it looked a bit Transfomerish for my taste, but so too did the vette. No doubt that for the money, the new Z06 is a lot of car. But, in a weird way, it's actually one of the reasons that owning a vette can be a bit like owning a Mustang. Lots of people can afford them, thus fanning the flames of some of the well-known vette stereotypes.

I waited patiently atop my dealer's allocation list for well over a year, before my new Z07 showed up. As a vette fan, I bought into the hype. The car is miles ahead of the previous gen as far as tech goes, but I'm not sure that it's any faster than my ZR1. The Z is damn fast, and with all the low end torque, it can be flat out dangerous to drive on cold and/or damp roads. Especially with the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2's.

One thing that I've found here, is a much more civil environment. The Corvette Forum is steeped in bravado and pissing matches. There is an immense amount of hating over there, and I find it much more relaxed here.

I'm trying to learn from all of you guys that have become woven into the NSX culture. From what I've gathered thus far, there are a lot of genuine car guys here that really have a passion for the heritage of the NSX. I'm hoping that I will be lucky enough to finally own a new one later this year...
 
GTRs are under rated power wise. Plus Z06s seem to have heat soak issues. Despite putting more power to the ground than a 2015 Viper, the Z06 is slower in a straight line:

The Z06 and Viper leave a lot of time on the table due to their manual transmissions slower shift speed.

http://youtu.be/kSd1aZHqMTg

I saw that too as a sort of first review of the Z06. I was mildly disappointed as I was rooting for the Z06. Maybe GM is simply exhausting all of their resources/attention to the "secret" Mid-engine Vette haha.

- - - Updated - - -

I can honestly say that the early reveal certainly put the NSX on my radar. At the time, it looked a bit Transfomerish for my taste, but so too did the vette. No doubt that for the money, the new Z06 is a lot of car. But, in a weird way, it's actually one of the reasons that owning a vette can be a bit like owning a Mustang. Lots of people can afford them, thus fanning the flames of some of the well-known vette stereotypes.

I waited patiently atop my dealer's allocation list for well over a year, before my new Z07 showed up. As a vette fan, I bought into the hype. The car is miles ahead of the previous gen as far as tech goes, but I'm not sure that it's any faster than my ZR1. The Z is damn fast, and with all the low end torque, it can be flat out dangerous to drive on cold and/or damp roads. Especially with the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2's.

One thing that I've found here, is a much more civil environment. The Corvette Forum is steeped in bravado and pissing matches. There is an immense amount of hating over there, and I find it much more relaxed here.

I'm trying to learn from all of you guys that have become woven into the NSX culture. From what I've gathered thus far, there are a lot of genuine car guys here that really have a passion for the heritage of the NSX. I'm hoping that I will be lucky enough to finally own a new one later this year...

To be honest with you, I can probably count on one hand off the top of my head of the members up here who have outright said they are waiting to buy the new NSX. I imagine there's more up here lurking and are just not posting.

I can't wait til the first members start posting pics and reviews of their new ownership. That's a positive aspect of me patiently waiting for that moment as I know I won't be owning the new NSX for quite some time ahead of me.
 
That's not fair Val lol, Vette had a technical problem otherwise blows the others away and the price is right

This would have been the winner though, if it existed ( V8 2750 lbs.) :biggrin::biggrin:

s4nor6.jpg
 
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