How good is the NSX? really.

[TURBO2GO]

Kip thanks for chiming in, the input is apprecaited. I am going to ask a question you don't have to answer exactly or even directly, and this question will go out to Billy as well... what kind of dollars are you guys into these cars for now? Are we talking 200K'ish? Surely it is well over 100 I would think.... I am not talking about the cost of the actual racing... which I am sure is very high... I am talking what the car cost to get to this point.

 

[TURBO2GO]

Being a TRUE NSX Owner isnt about being the fastest or the best on a Track since not alot of us Track Our cars, no need to.

As I said in my FIRST POST: This is a track related topic. Other comments can be posted on other threads.

 

[brahtw8]

Interesting thread and even more interesting opinions and viewpoints. I'm not sure if I can give an unbiased opinion but here it goes.
Track car era:
I have been fortunate enough to have had my car at every version I wanted (Street, Track, Race) and have taken it as far as I wanted to in every form. There were other cars available but I stayed true to my passion for the NSX.
As far as tubo's original question goes, I have just the opposite question. I don't understand why more people dont' use the NSX for their track/race cars. My reasoning for this is that at whatever performance level you are interested in, the NSX can compete. I do understand that it takes additional dollars to do this but the cars that have been compared to the NSX have some pretty hefty price tags attached to them and are great cars but with the current value of the NSX and the aftermarket support, you can have a car that meets and/or exceeds that of the said competition. When my car was in its track form and supercharged I had a great time running with the p-cars, F-cars, Vipers, L-cars. Even the cup cars and challenge cars. It kept up easily and in most cases beat them and did it reliably. Yes, there was a cost involved but in almost all cases it was less than the competition. Maintinence has also been alot less than the others.

Race car era:
Shad and I entered our first season with a new race version and after a full season and two classes of racing I can tell all of you that compared to other cars we race against that the NSX is a reliable cost effective race car. As Billy has previously stated (AND I AGREE) , FXMD and us have built cars for different purposes but have had great sucesses. We use the stock suspension arms, pickup points, hub assy's, etc. We competed against cars with FAR more $$$ of investment and won! Some of the top Time Attack cars Billy has humiliated (Dam him for being so FAST!) have several times the money invested and drivers that are amazingly talented. I can't think of to many cars you can do with and do it reliably. In our class I raced against many cup cars and other than the World Challenge bunch (that was so much fun) we prevailed. So I guess what I am saying is that in stock form the NSX is undersprung, under braked, and underpowered. With the current cost of an NSX and the available support like Shad @ drivingambition.us and others, you can have a competetive car @ any level (please don't use miatas as a comparison) for the same or less money. You get exclusivity if that's important to you and you can have the Honda reliability to boot. Why would you want anything else??? Guys, understand that these are just my personal experiences and opinions. The NSX is an AMAZING car even today. I have no intention of converting to anything else. For the $$$, nothing else comes close for me! Thanks, Kip

Epic post.

This should be made part of the Wiki. Great NSX quotes...

 

[NSXDreamer2]

Turbo, seriously with only a few hpde event, why would you be interested to be at Kip or fxmd level of tuning...

it's really like you asking MJ what it takes to shoot hoops with some middle school boys.


I'm hoping John@microsoft will chime in, as he seems to have a very different opinion being up here at the NW.

I think everyone agrees that just go drive the nsx more and forget modding. I also agrees that if you are worried about the benefit to cost of the nsx tracking/racing; just sell your car and get an early model coupe, throw in some brake pads/aero rotors and suspension.

 

[Dr.Honda]

If your goal is wheel to wheel racing, the NSX is not a good platform because you will be forced to run in a GT class w/ cars that are better in SCCA. If you want to run in NASA, you could use forced induction to make the car faster but will likely be pushed up into an unlimited class and not be competitive there either. Furthermore, do you really want to be trading paint w/ a car that has aluminum body panels? not me. In my opinion, the #1 criteria for a good wheel to wheel racecar is that it is cheap to fix or replace and the NSX fails that test from the get-go.

If you are going to do HPDE's or time attack, what everyone else said.

 

[TURBO2GO]

Turbo, seriously with only a few hpde event, why would you be interested to be at Kip or fxmd level of tuning...

I'm not. I've already explained the reason behind posting several times in this thread. I don't want to start sounding like a parrot. It has to do with safety and taking a good look down the road no matter where I am at now. Obviously Shad, Kip, and Billy found the topic valuable enough to chime in. If someone else doesn't, they don't have to reply to the thread.

Members do things as they see fit. That doesn't mean that way is right for me. Some are perfectly comfortable driving with a minumum level of additional of safety gear and without track insurance. Before I continue to risk things, I need to know what I am doing and where I am going, exactly.

Many of the DE's I've been to are far from what I would consider professional. Everyone there including the organizers are taking what I consider to be a decent level of risk. Safety concerns can be "excessive" until something goes wrong. Then an organization gets sued, someone loses an arm or worse dies, and someone goes to jail. My last DE they threw the guys in the back of a pickup truck, dropped them off at flag stations, and told them to flag because they didn't have the money for proper flag people. One guy almost fell out of the back of the pickup as it drove off, and on several occasions the flaggers were asking each other what to do. One guy is waving yellow and another is waving Blue/white stripe. Is this professional?

I want to stop being maligned for asking qestions because I am a "beginner". This is a forum for discussion. If it is too much energy for someone to reply or they are annoyed because they already "told me what to do" and I am still here asking, then they don't have to reply.

 

[docjohn]

Dave then it should'nt concearn you how much Kip has into his race car... Besides I think the guys who are giving you good advice are also posting as a general fyi,as there are folks starting to track the nsx and are far too shy to asky,asky,asky...At some point Dave you have to make your decision and live with it as far as safety is concearned...I guess those of us who made our decisions long ago get a little impatient with this safety issue because we decided upon and implimented our strategies without much fanfare ....

 

[NSXDreamer2]

I'm not. I've already explained the reason behind posting several times in this thread. I don't want to start sounding like a parrot. It has to do with safety and taking a good look down the road no matter where I am at now. Obviously Shad, Kip, and Billy found the topic valuable enough to chime in. If someone else doesn't, they don't have to reply to the thread.

Members do things as they see fit. That doesn't mean that way is right for me. Some are perfectly comfortable driving with a minumum level of additional of safety gear and without track insurance. Before I continue to risk things, I need to know what I am doing and where I am going, exactly.

Many of the DE's I've been to are far from what I would consider professional. Everyone there including the organizers are taking what I consider to be a decent level of risk. Safety concerns can be "excessive" until something goes wrong. Then an organization gets sued, someone loses an arm or worse dies, and someone goes to jail. My last DE they threw the guys in the back of a pickup truck, dropped them off at flag stations, and told them to flag because they didn't have the money for proper flag people. One guy almost fell out of the back of the pickup as it drove off, and on several occasions the flaggers were asking each other what to do. One guy is waving yellow and another is waving Blue/white stripe. Is this professional?

I want to stop being maligned for asking qestions because I am a "beginner". This is a forum for discussion. If it is too much energy for someone to reply or they are annoyed because they already "told me what to do" and I am still here asking, then they don't have to reply.

not i'm not annoyed, if i do, i just laughed, and hit the "Main thread" button and check out other threads.

DocJohn kind of sees my point that you shouldn't over analyzed how much it's going to cost you nor the safety stand point. Like i said, if you are really concern yourself losing you car at 140mph, then get rid of the SC, or, just cap yourself at 120, heck even 100mph. If you weren't going to wheel to wheel racing, you can get away from putting a roll bar instead of roll cage. Ask nsxnut for the details, I sat in his car and i do like that as a safety equipment while keep it streetable. (Cage is not safe for everyday driving on the other hand, and it will lost the PIMP mobile status)

Regarding the club, just talk to the organizers if you are not comfortable and if you have any suggestions. and remember, most of DE is organized by a club, a group of people, you don't like it, join another one.

I'm not exactly the right person to give out advise on safety equipment, I tracked for 6 yrs now, and I don't even have any roll over protection, nor HANS... but then everytime I go to a track, I'm confident of bringing the car home. I'm not saying I'm better driver than you, but you do have to have more track time to build the confidence.

 

[TURBO2GO]

Dave then it should'nt concearn you how much Kip has into his race car...

What is wrong with wanting to know what one of the fastest NSX's on the track cost to make?

I can't exactly afford a Zonda or a Keonigsegg but I still want to know what they cost and how they drive.

Stop being a party pooper Doc! :wink:

 

[TURBO2GO]

DocJohn kind of sees my point that you shouldn't over analyzed how much it's going to cost you nor the safety stand point.

OK just so you don't think I am a fruitcake... my first DE, a mini-coop rolled over twice right in front of me. I look over and there is a car with its wheels in the air still spinning, laying on its roof, with the driver crawling out through the window. My instructor is screaming "oh shit! Oh shit! pull over, pull over". Then he left me... and other cars still not knowing what has happened are coming around the turn really fast. I'm thinking "should I leave the car and go some place safe? should I stay in the car? Is that dude OK?".... this was my FIRST event.

Second event, a Corvette comes around a turn too fast, slams right into the wall. Airbags deploy, cars come to a screeching halt, one of them within 2 feet of him.

Third event, back straight at the Glen.... too many cars get bunched up in the end, all brake hard, two swerve off road, one goes straight through the cones instead of going through the bus stop to avoid crashing into another car. Disaster barely avoided.

My sister is a doctor and worked ER for a while. Had a guy my age with my looks come in with every bone in his body broken during some car racing event. He later died. She came to me and BEGGED me to stop going to the track with tears in her eyes. Now she doesn't know anything about DE's but it made me sad to see her cry like that. And I said to myself I would always be extra careful. I plan to follow up with that promise.

Anyway this is not a safety thread. I have already been there. I think what I needed answered has been answered in the past few track posts I have made. I have a lot clearer idea now of what I am going to do now.

Thanks to everyone for the replies. Some of you guys really gave especially enlightening input.

 

[docjohn]

Dave all those disasters you have seen,,I have seen double:frown: Last kids day at wgi,open track session, my passenger and I had to avoid a limping car on line crawling along between 9-10 but sadly the instructer in his beloved old porsche race car who was nose to tail with me could not avoid said limping car and smacked his rear going about80 mph I've seen cars totaled/flipped/smushed ect......you just have to stay vigilent,punish rule breakers,drive smart,and be lucky.That is all part of the "open track" experience.

 

[FXMDBilly]

Post #35:

You CAN die driving 40mph. Do you feel comfortable and 'safe' only going 110mph? -and 140mph is 'more dangerous'? While this is somewhat true, you can have a nasty wreck at 110 or even 40mph as I said. In all reality you are statistically more at risk on the street -with the idiots on the road, semi trucks, cross traffic, light posts, trees, etc... (driving like normal as one of the millions of drivers out there, not talking about driving like a jerk) than you are at the track. Traffic goes in the same direction on a track, with usually bigger runoffs and room and again, are statistically safer than just driving on the street. Getting T-boned by another car running a red light, hitting a tree, or being hit by a semi will ruin your day (and possibly kill you) far more (statistically) than accidents at HPDE events.

HPDE events are generally much safer than W2W racing events. If you want to W2W race, you pretty much have to cage your car. If you're interested in DE events, you're car (even SC) is capable of speeds similar to other non caged cars - Porsche Turbo, GT3, GT2, Viper, Z06, F430, Gallardo, CLK63 Black Series, and many others that you see at DE events all over the place.

For those who say 'take off the SC', then why not just buy a miata? While you're at it, buy a Spec Miata with a cage. Same goes for driving. If a SC NSX is 'too much' for a beginner. What about those beginners with 911 GT3s or F430s? What about those who do a couple driving events, a few races, and then are immediately RACING in the 24 hours of LeMans or 24 Hours of Daytona? -Yes this DOES happen, and its even more frequent for those with little/no experience do a few DEs, local races, then are racing (and podiuming) in Grand Am -for those with a budget to hire a good team and a pro codriver.

So (just my opinion), I don't feel that he 'has to' take off a SC or buy a miata, but rather should do what he wants to and what makes him happy -which is different for everyone, and assess the risks and go from there.


And BTW - I totally agree with Kip.


Billy

 

[VegasSpeed]

Wow, just wow is all I have to say. I have never seen anything like that as far as accidents go. I have only gone to PCA events in Las Vegas for HPDE. The Porsche Club in Las Vegas is pretty safe and has a strong focus on that before anything. One other positive about Spring Mountain is there aren't many walls on the whole track.

The other thing I would like to add is I like what Turbo is saying. I think these are great questions and I love this thread. As a casual track guy I like this topic and what I have learned.

 

[chado]

I

Along the way, I bought a Cayman S as a street car (and my prior rides have included a Lotus Elise, 996TT, M Roadster, E46 M3 convertible, 2005 STi, and others). I got one of the first Cayman's in the US (same with the Elise) and found it less than stellar, ultimately. Had it listed for sale for near six months when I decided to keep it and have Farnbacher-Loles do their "GTR" conversion on it. 3.8L X51 engine, GT3 suspension upgrades, Motons, 997 front bodywork, time trial legal roll bar, RS seats, etc. If it weren't for hitting a deer near the end, that car would have won the small bore class of the One Lap of America in 2008 and come in third overall (behind a factory Dodge Viper effort and a 600HP 996TT that won for the fifth straight year). That car is now amazing. But even it needs things like additional gearbox oiling!


--Donnie

Donnie,

If you don't mind my asking.. what was the total cost for the Farnbacher-Loles "GTR conversion" on your Cayman?

T.I.A.

chad

 

[BioBanker]

I think that awareness is always better than being nieve and I think that Dave's go around on this has been a result of his growing awareness on what can happen at the track.

There's no shortage of unprofessional events here at Mosport too. Some have NO FLAGGERS. I heard about one such day last summer where one car blew its engine and dumped oil on the track. The result, the NEXT 10 CARS IN THE WALL. Virtually the entire run group bit it and at that track segment, they were probably going 100mph when they left the track.

10 cars! I dont think that anyone was seriously hurt, but one by one the wall collected people entering T8 after they crested the hump at the end of the back straight.

Be safe!

 

[Hrant]

Dave, I think the answers to your questions have been offered.

I will repeat what I have said before and hopefully be able to sumarize the dilemma you find yourslef in - at least based on this and your other threads. Your issue appares to be a conflict with wanting the most out of your NSX in terms of performance (and this irrepsective of your level of driving or needs) and your justificable concerns with safety at the track (even in HPDE) when you are basically a "risk averse" person.

Until and unless you overcome your basic inctincts of being "risk averse" - and this will come only with seat time and proper coaching should you decide to go forward, all the recommendations will fall short of meeting your "mixed" needs. It doesn't matter if you can put a functional and esthetic roll cage or find an aftermarket piece that might weigh 6 oz less than the OEM to go 100 mph or 140 mph fast - even on a track and in a well managed track group, tracking involves taking some "calculated" risks which you seem to be aversive to unless you make your NSX an only track car which you also are not willing to. Hence the conundrum you find yourself and we read in your posts. This is the nature of any sports for those who want to pursue it further once they have experienced the adrenaline rush.

Here are a few of recommendations (not the full posts) that are worth repeating:

And, again, I say this as a friend, I always "take issue" with these types of threads you start based upon your inexperience on the track (note: I intentionally used the word track "inexperience" rather than track "experience" since the amount of days you have done in HPDE, imho, do not justify a search for a faster track car.)

Edit: While you mentioned that safety was your concern, all your other posts indicate a search for more performance out of your car when you haven't mastered yet what you have. If 140 mph makes you worried, then drive at 120 or 100 and "reduce" your sisk. If your come back is well even at 40 mph you saw an accident at the track that the driver had .... then tracking is not for the faint of the heart!

Regarding your reference to track cars like what Kip, Billy, John, Coz, Igor, etc. have, realistically Dave, you are not in that league in terms of mindset (not referencing to finances) based on all your posts thus far; you "do not appear" to fit the bill of a diehard racer/tracker given your propensity to be risk averse and to overanalyze into paralysis. And I say this with a collegiate perspective.

Lastly, you have to appreciate that irrespective of the two camps - diehard trackers who will chime that nothing is good enough unless done to some FIA specs vs. those occasional weekend warriors at HPDE who have tinkered with mild compromises and happy with their results precisely because they don't intend to make it a full race car. There is a happy medium/balance where you can track the car and also enjoy it in street driving.

YM-Will-V

Edit: The key in that post was that there is a happy balance that has worked for many others without going to full race mode. And reiterated here again:

....I was able to happily ascend and descend in the same car, and like Bio I was satisfied.....now track time is dictated by family...but I will do events that include other nsx owners,mostly to give joy rides.You are too focused on the miriad of choices out there and need to commit to a path or plan with your car and your own skillset.

.....What car you bring to an hpde has alot to do with your finances...but it has as much to do with your personality, pride, and habits.

Edit: aka risk aversiveness. And from Kip - who has went through the transitions without first having a roll cage, or fire suit, or Hans or ....

Interesting thread and even more interesting opinions and viewpoints. I'm not sure if I can give an unbiased opinion but here it goes.
Track car era:
I have been fortunate enough to have had my car at every version I wanted (Street, Track, Race) and have taken it as far as I wanted to in every form. There were other cars available but I stayed true to my passion for the NSX.
As far as tubo's original question goes, I have just the opposite question. I don't understand why more people dont' use the NSX for their track/race cars. My reasoning for this is that at whatever performance level you are interested in, the NSX can compete. ......

And lastly, John summarized it well yet again:

.... At some point Dave you have to make your decision and live with it as far as safety is concearned...I guess those of us who made our decisions long ago get a little impatient with this safety issue because we decided upon and implimented our strategies without much fanfare ....

And perhaps the most important variable that you can do something about is the track programs/organizations that you participate in. If they are too risky or badly management for your needs, then don't attend their events. That is the best advice and risk management for the money.

Happy motoring.

 

[Liquid]

This is a good thread but I really disagree with a few things in this thread. First is the attempt to stop good discussion from occurring. Safety is a very serious and complicated issue with a whole spectrum of answers, depending on one's tolerance and budget. While I agree that everyone has to decide for him/herself what risks are acceptable, we shouldn't try to clamp down on different approaches or ideas on controlling/managing those risks, or even a better understanding of what risks we are taking.

The all or nothing approach suggested by some (i.e. if you're concerned with safety then you should either quit HPDE, get a SM with a full cage, or just deal with possibly being maimed or killed is a vast oversimplification of possible solutions. And while I get the fact that people have made their decisions and are tired of having to read threads on safety, they are very helpful for people who aren't track superstars already.

Remember, Prime exists for no other purpose than to educate through written means. If we can't have a good discussion on an issue like this, then I guess we can just go back to the regular programming of "POLL: What Oil Do You Use??" or "HELP!! Trying to Decide Between NSX and CTS-V".

 

[Hrant]

I don't believe anyone is trying to stifle the discussion. The cocnern is with "shopping" for an answer when the fundamental premise of the questions can't be resolved nor answered unless the OP (and all similarly situated parties) appreciates his situation wrt to risk aversiveness, finances, and still the need to pimp the car :wink:

The issue of safety has been amply explored and dsicussed before. We should all give kudos to Ted (aka: 92 White 0650) who started this several years ago with 4 point vs. 5 point vs. 6 point harness belts, mounting points, HANS, etc. ....

 

[Liquid]

I'm not singling you out Hrant... actually you posted while I was writing my post and I saw it after. I think you accurately identify the problem which is the tension between wanting to drive at a high level which has risks to both health and finances and the desire to limit risks to health and finances.

I agree that each individual has to work it out for themselves (and posted that previously) but I see no harm in various people chiming in with their thoughts on what is a good balance, or why they made a certain decision, or whatnot. Sometimes things are obvious after the fact but a new person may not even realize what is in play, so to speak.

 

[TURBO2GO]

Hrant, I want to make sure you understand why I posted? The thread asks about how good the NSX is, and that is because I am at a crossroads with to cage or not to cage. I know once I cage, I am going to just keep the NSX as my track car. It is just going to roll from there. I may never do more than DEs, or I may get bored with DE and get into a lot more. I am sure many guys start with DE's and a few years later find themselves involved in racing. If the NSX is essentialy a weak car for this, which is why I asked, then I need to rethink even the cage decision. Perhaps I did not understand John@microsoft well on the phone, but he was saying the NSX is a somewhat outdated car and not to waste a lot of money on it. I wasn't asking about more mods, I was just asking about a proper cage. He was kind enough to talk with me over 45 minutes, and gave me a lot of information. He made me aware of what a real proper cage is and what is not. We then went on a tangent about the NSX in general, and he felt it ultimately has real limitations. I almost feel a bit guilty talking about his conversation with me, because I can understand why he would not post things like that on this forum. I mean you can imagine had I posted in general and not kept a tight lid on who replies where this thread could have gone.

I have a lot of respect for what John@microsoft says, he speaks his mind and gives it straight, in fact I am going to miss him being here. But no matter your experience level and knowledge, everyone has their own perspective on things and I wanted to also hear from Billy, Shad, Kip, to see what drove them and what they think now that they are way ahead of where I am now. Thankfully, they all chimed in and now I have a clearer understanding of what they think. This is a valuable thread in many respects. What Dr. Honda just mentioned, the classes and how the NSX fits in, is something I never even considered. When you say the NSX is a good or bad platform, you have to also take into consideration where the car is competing. djb_rh also made a very good post reflecting a lot of racing experience.

Threads like this are very valuable on prime. Had I not started this, these guys would not have shared their experience. I know maybe some members are rolling their eyes thinking I talk too much, ask too many questions, bring up what seems to them the same subjects, but there is nothing I can do about that. What I can say is that from every thread I have started in this track section of the forum, I have learned a lot. I am sure I am not the only one.

 

[djb_rh]

I think Billy has proven the NSX is as good as you want it to be. You sound like you are worried about an "investment" in something that may not make sense down the road.

If you love the NSX and enjoy driving it, then your "investment" is safe, as long as you realize NO race car is an investment. If you understand that you'll never see your money back out of it, but only want to enjoy it, the NSX can grow as you grow. That's what Billy has been saying with his post, I think.

Yes, it can be as safe as any other "race car" if you spend in those areas. Yes, it can be made to perform with the best of the best if you continue to spend. No, it does not cost "stupid money" to make it do so. It's a great platform and does most things well already. The minor issues are addressable. All the power you could ever need is addressable, and isn't NEARLY as expensive as many other marques. And it's just as reliable, if not more so, as anything else out there.

I found a coupe for $15k. I'll probably get $2k of that back in selling shit I don't need. Maybe more. A cage done right? Couple grand. Some race wheels and tires and you're on track. I'd figure $5k more for stripping it and putting a race seat in there right, too, along with other safety gear (fire system, etc). Go to the race tranny is $6k plus installation. Want 300 reliable horsepower in a fresh motor? Less than $15k (not a ton) plus installation. Want to think about more power? Talk to Billy. It'll be less than half the equivalent power for a Porsche, though.

Want aero? Use the internet. Lots of stuff out there with price tags. Want to widebody later? Again, it's out there. But for now you'll be REALLY happy with 235/275 r-comps under there. Later you can spend maybe $5k at MOST to do the few suspension updates you might want. BBK prices are on the web. NA2 ABS upgrade? $2500.

Honestly, I think you can build a SERIOUSLY fast NSX for well under $100k that's very reliable, too. And I contend that you can probably actually race the thing in a LOT of places and do well. I really think NASA ST2 is a possibility. There probably is somewhere in SCCA national ranks that fits, but ITE is definitely possible.

Personally, it looks to me like the PERFECT platform for what you want, especially if you're already an NSX lover. I wasn't, but I'm getting there fast.

As for the question of my GTR conversion, I think it was $60k (on top of the car). But that was just the 997 bodywork, JRZ's, 3.8L X51, and some carbon fiber bits (oh, and the interior stuff). I then spent a lot more on Motons, many more suspension upgrades, carbon fiber decklid with plexi window, etc. And know that the 997 fenders do not just bolt on a Cayman...they have to be modified as the door curvature isn't the same at all. But it looks way better (IMHO) and more importantly you can now run GT3 front fascia and chin spoilers. The one thing Farnbacher didn't know needed to be upgraded has also cost me...the transmission. Once you up the grip level and power and put it on track the tranny has oiling issues. So I'm out the cost of an LSD addition and had to basically buy a new gearbox. But I'll have the oiling mod you need now *and* a MUCH better diff than what was avaiable when I first got it.


--Donnie

 

[Hrant]

Dave, you very well articulated a response.

I think what some of us are recommending as advice, followed by what Kip and Shad are saying is the following.

1) Before you transition to a dedicated track car, spend some more seat time driving your NSX on a track in a well managed track organization. To meet your safety concerns, do the easy to revert safety mods which would be the harness bar, 6 point belts, track seat if you must, and some of the suspension mods that will minimize oversteer/body roll. And to further "manage risks" perhaps you can avoid the 140 by limiting yourself to a more comfortable zone - you have to drive the car in your comfort zone. Brakes would be optional if you have good pads.

The cost for these can be accomplished for about $2000; seats will add to the cost.

2) If after another season or two - something like at least 30 track days under your belt - you find yourself really liking this as you pick more confidence and speed, and you are closing in on 9/10th of the car's capabilities, and you want something even more and more competitive with the others, then evaluate your options. By then, the available options either in aftermarket mods or driving/racing programs may have changed.

Edit: for myself, my goal has never been to be the fastest. My first and foremost focus has been to improve and maintain driving skills and have fun. Don't care if I am passed by a Miata or not. As John said, I may be in my descending mode now LOL! Most in the paddock will still come look at my 11 year old NSX and take pictures of it instead of the Ps or Vs or Ms :tongue:

3) I know some will disagree, but caging the NSX for purposes of accomplishing those 30 tracks days is not necessary - I don't believe anyone that I know of went that route in HPDE. If you want a happy compromise, you can do the Comptech "cage" which is reversible especially since you "may" do no more than HPDE. But you have correctly concluded that once you cage the NSX, it is no longer streetable if you are close to 5'10"+ ...... if you are 5'5" its a different story :smile:

If this is not good enough, then the suggestion that others offered, going with a coupe instead of a T would be a better choice for you. This especially the case if you plan to cage the car. My 98-T is pretty much at the border edge of being streetable with all the comfort features while it maintains respectability at the track. All the changes - except for the ProCar NA1 vented hood - are very subtle and discreet and you really have to look to notice the track readiness. I am happy with this compromise.

4) As you aptly noted, what might be a competitive venue now may no longer be for an NSX entry in a year or two. Kip had to change his front to a 02+ in order to be able to enter more races with the Challenge .... they want new car models to be in their programs ....... plus whatever other restrictions they may put.

Years ago when PD Cunningham was having great success with his Vortex SC (I think that was what he had when our club hosted him at Infineon), the sanctioning body restricted his boost ...... two years later, his NSX was no longer competitive and/or perhaps they decided to move TSXs and RSXs to promote Acura's newer model cars. Billy has proven the competitive worthiness of an NSX - though his NSX is quite unique. Last year, thanks to Shad's engineering, Kip's car outperformed then PD Cunningham's Laguna Seca record lap time by I believe almost 8-10 seconds. This year it will be even faster. So you tell me, when Kip in his first racing trial is competing within 1 seconds of the likes of Boris Said, Randy Pobst, etc. is the NSX good enough? :wink:

 

[fourringpilot]

The NSX? First thing you do at the track is TC off, because it sucks. No small Japanese man in the trunk with a laptop monitoring yaw rates and wheel spin adjusting the ABS, power and diff at each wheel independently like a EVO X.... no, not for us.

Damn, thanks for making me spit Snapple on my keyboard. That is the funniest post I have read in a while.

I realize the thread is about pushing the NSX platform to its limits, but isn't it so much more fun to drive a car that doesn't do all the work for you? The most fun I ever had was on my Honda xr and it had no frills at all. Shouldn't the fun/feel factor count for something when considering what platform you want to take to the track?

 

[Mac Attack]

What Dr. Honda just mentioned, the classes and how the NSX fits in, is something I never even considered.

Sorry - Unless you have a lot of money to throw around, this is obviously something you think about FIRST before you go off wanting to cut up a nice '05 NSX to make it safe on the track.

Also, your DE's sound very poorly organized. If you're concerned about your safety at these events, IT IS YOUR JOB to speak up and let them know. If you say something first, and do it in a constructive manner, then others will go along and agree with you. I don't know too many folks that just go out with the intention of being unsafe. If they don't listen and make changes, don't run - IT'S THAT SIMPLE.

Finally, why not try carting? As someone who's been there, it's cheaper and more of an adrenaline rush.

Dave

 

[nsxnut]

This is a good thread but I really disagree with a few things in this thread. First is the attempt to stop good discussion from occurring. Safety is a very serious and complicated issue with a whole spectrum of answers, depending on one's tolerance and budget. While I agree that everyone has to decide for him/herself what risks are acceptable, we shouldn't try to clamp down on different approaches or ideas on controlling/managing those risks, or even a better understanding of what risks we are taking.

The all or nothing approach suggested by some (i.e. if you're concerned with safety then you should either quit HPDE, get a SM with a full cage, or just deal with possibly being maimed or killed is a vast oversimplification of possible solutions. And while I get the fact that people have made their decisions and are tired of having to read threads on safety, they are very helpful for people who aren't track superstars already.

Remember, Prime exists for no other purpose than to educate through written means. If we can't have a good discussion on an issue like this, then I guess we can just go back to the regular programming of "POLL: What Oil Do You Use??" or "HELP!! Trying to Decide Between NSX and CTS-V".

With that said... You can make the NSX safer.
I have a multi point roll bar. To be specific the Comptech Roll bar.
I believe Shad has one of these and can make more.

This is no substitute for a cage but may be the next best thing?

Talk to Shad ad Driving Ambitions.