How good is the NSX? really.
- Thread starter TURBO2GO
- Start date
- Joined
- 18 February 2008
- Messages
- 140
hey Coz, cool video of the NSX type-R vs stock. maybe as a real comparison we could compare a stock NSX with these other cars:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nl9wfyNfO4M
or
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4oaY9fHOaE
but ofcourse if we were to put a FI Nsx in there, it would most likely blow them away. You all know what the point is here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nl9wfyNfO4M
or
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4oaY9fHOaE
but ofcourse if we were to put a FI Nsx in there, it would most likely blow them away. You all know what the point is here.
Here is my proposal to settle the issue for Turbo2Go:
Rent Laguna Seca for a day. Have the following cars there:
Stock NA1 (w/ OEM 16/17 wheels)
Stock NA2 (w/ OEM 17/17 wheels)
Stock 911 GT3
Stock C5 Vette
Stock C6 Vette
Stock M3
Street rubber on all cars.
Have Billy run 5 laps each and compare the best lap for each car.
Rent Laguna Seca for a day. Have the following cars there:
Stock NA1 (w/ OEM 16/17 wheels)
Stock NA2 (w/ OEM 17/17 wheels)
Stock 911 GT3
Stock C5 Vette
Stock C6 Vette
Stock M3
Street rubber on all cars.
Have Billy run 5 laps each and compare the best lap for each car.
I don't think it's as simple as numbers
yeah numbers look good on the internet and in magazines, but what about fun factor? I'd gladly take a car that was slower but more fun to drive vs. something that goes like stink but is boring and uninspring
yeah numbers look good on the internet and in magazines, but what about fun factor? I'd gladly take a car that was slower but more fun to drive vs. something that goes like stink but is boring and uninspring
+1:smile:
Always thought this was a good video, considering the NSX was really the oldest design out there.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2u_ptszlXk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2u_ptszlXk
and i hope all the wankers that cherish 1/4 mile times will flock to those 'editors picks' and leave more nsx's for us. you can't put a value on 'synergy' of the design. there is no car 'below' R8 that can give us the same overall performance (and designed-in potential) for the money.
I completely agree with you, actually. I love my NSX and wouldn't trade it for any other car, no matter what the "stats" say. But for Turbo, he's very focused on the track "quality" of the NSX. The best way to determine that is to, well, put the cars on a track and find out!
I bet if Billy did the test as described, the NSX's would do better than most would think.
Isn't JGTC (now Super GT) a series where the NSX raced against similar cars such as the Nissan GT-R and Lexus SC430?
If so, they placed 2nd, 4th, and 5th last year and won overall back in 2007. Not too shabby for an "out of production" car. [wikipedia.org]
I'm not sure if anyone follows Super GT as I don't see any recent threads in this forum (track talk) or the General Motorsports forum (where would such a thread go?), but if you want to see/hear what Honda's replacement for the NSX (HSV010-GT) sounds and looks like, here is a clip from last weekend's practice run at Suzuka.
Youtube Clip Honda comes out of the garage around 25 seconds in.
If so, they placed 2nd, 4th, and 5th last year and won overall back in 2007. Not too shabby for an "out of production" car. [wikipedia.org]
I'm not sure if anyone follows Super GT as I don't see any recent threads in this forum (track talk) or the General Motorsports forum (where would such a thread go?), but if you want to see/hear what Honda's replacement for the NSX (HSV010-GT) sounds and looks like, here is a clip from last weekend's practice run at Suzuka.
Youtube Clip Honda comes out of the garage around 25 seconds in.
Isn't JGTC (now Super GT) a series where the NSX raced against similar cars such as the Nissan GT-R and Lexus SC430?
If so, they placed 2nd, 4th, and 5th last year and won overall back in 2007. Not too shabby for an "out of production" car. [wikipedia.org]
I'm not sure if anyone follows Super GT as I don't see any recent threads in this forum (track talk) or the General Motorsports forum (where would such a thread go?), but if you want to see/hear what Honda's replacement for the NSX (HSV010-GT) sounds and looks like, here is a clip from last weekend's practice run at Suzuka.
Youtube Clip Honda comes out of the garage around 25 seconds in.
BTW: JGTC cars might look like their street counterparts but they are not even close to being the same it's like comparing apples and oranges.
So you're telling me my Toyota Camry isn't a tube-frame carbureted pushrod-V8? (NASCAR).
No, Billy. But it does contain some track-friendly features. For example, it will accelerate to 130 mph without any input from you! :biggrin:
Best Motoring is overtly biased towards the NSX. All of those cars can easily spank a NSX-R.
I highly doubt that. The only car the NSX would beat is the C5 Vette. If it were a Z06C5, forget it.
Disclaimer: I am not hating on the NSX, I'm actively searching for one but without the added power, it just can't compete with the cars of today. I blame Honda.
Super Taikyu is way closer than JGTC, JGTC vs street is like comparing a FIA GT1 car to their street counterpart.
As far as pushrod-V8's on a Toyota I would be more than happy with Tanner's Rockstar V8 equipped Scion
+1 on BMI. The NSX might beat an E46 M3 (wasn't specified) but won't against the current E92. Yes blame honda for not giving the NSX enough power to be competitive against cars 20 years later
They targeted the 348 (one of the best cars in its time) and beat it.What, your Scion dosn't have a V8?Super Taikyu is way closer than JGTC, JGTC vs street is like comparing a FIA GT1 car to their street counterpart.
As far as pushrod-V8's on a Toyota I would be more than happy with Tanner's Rockstar V8 equipped Scion
The NSX-R doesn't even come close to a M3CSL(the one in the video). I can post up numbers but it would be pointless. When you have one of the most aggressive drivers that BMI has in the NSX-R vs. some timid-rookie, it wont be a huge surprise to see who can maximize the potential of the car.+1 on BMI. The NSX might beat an E46 M3 (wasn't specified) but won't against the current E92. Yes blame honda for not giving the NSX enough power to be competitive against cars 20 years later
Honda had a chance to really update the NSX back in 02 but they didn't. The styling update was great, but where was the added power? Honda was happy with being complacent and settled with their victory over the 348.
I'm not sure which one would be faster. I've driven a ton of E46s but not a CSL. I think it would be a good match (and i'd love to do the comparison
)Yup, as you know, happens all the time in those videos.
Sarcasm or honesty?
Honesty. It should be a given just by watching them.
Very well said Billy.
Here’s my long story about the NSX. Perhaps this can shed some light on the car and it’s capabilites. I bought my ‘91 nine years ago because I thought it was one of the coolest and best looking cars on the planet. That’s my personal opinion, but I think a lot of people also share that point of view. I wasn’t aware of how great of a driver’s car it was.
It wasn’t until I took it to the track several years later that I realized how amazing it was. Now after 30-40 track days in the NSX, the car is still faster than I am (Billy Johnson is 5 seconds faster than me in my own car at Buttonwillow). However, I’m fast enough in it to be personally VERY satisfied with the NSX’s performance. It’s not the fastest car and I’m not the fastest driver by any means but the car is very rewarding. For example, I spent last weekend at Laguna Seca with Trackmasters. I ran in the advanced group and spent the weekend passing GT3’s, 911 Turbo, Nissan GTR, M3’s, Z06’s, 997’s and an F360. I only got passed once and it was by a GT2 on Hoosiers. I know it’s not racing and I know it may sounds corny, but passing today’s modern sports cars in an HPDE advanced group is still very satisfying… especially with a full stock interior, A/C, Stereo, bone stock motor and quiet stock exhaust at Seca. I ran a 1:42.87, which was very satisfying.
I was with a buddy of mine at Laguna Seca. He has a striped out 997. His goal is total weight reduction and building a track-dedicated car. No interior, no sound deadening, no A/C, no stereo, no wipers, lightweight flywheel, aftermarket LSD, GT3RS wing, GT3 seats, PSS 10’s etc. We were both running R comps and the NSX was still turning quicker lap times. I’m pretty certain his car is quicker, but that day with both of us driving, the NSX was still putting down quicker lap times… and it looks fairly stock. I like the stock looking sleeper aspect of my car and I love it when people at the track ask what I’ve done with the motor and my answer is “bone stock motor except for I/H/E and it has 104k miles on it”. By the way, my wife still drives the car on the weekend to run errands. This speaks volumes about the NSX.
Here’s what I’ve done to my car to make it a fantastic track car:
• Comptech non-compliance toe links and rear beam.
• Comptech header, no cats, Taitec GT Lightweight exhaust.
• Cantrell cold air intake and K&N filter.
• Brembo Gran Turismo BBK on front only. Stock rear calipers. Stainless brake lines with high temp fluid. PFC01 brake pads recommended by Billy Johnson (these are incredible and can handle more abuse than any pad I’ve used including Carbotech XP10’s).
• Penske double adjustable suspension setup by Erik Messley.
• Vented Type R hood.
• STMPO aluminum rear bumper beam.
• Dali sway bars.
• Smaller diameter and lighter Sparco steering wheel with quick release NRG hub.
• Japanese short gears and lightweight flywheel. Stock clutch.
• Nitto NT01 R compound tires: 235 front, 275 rear (these are great tires).
• Autowave baffled oil pan with Accusump.
I’ve also had quite a bit of professional instruction from Billy Johnson. I would have to say this was my single most effective investment. For quicker lap times and safer driving I would suggest proffesional coaching as a first priority. Billy has helped me drive dramatically quicker and most importantly safer. If you ever have the opportunity for Billy or a true pro to drive your car, I would suggest doing so (if you trust them). This will open your eyes to what the car is capable of and what your benchmark is. If Billy doesn’t live by you, try to find a great professional instructor. Please keep in mind that more than half of the instructors I’ve worked with are subpar and some are downright bad. Find a good one.
I’ve been wondering what my next track car will be: GT3RS, GTR, Z06, Exige S? I think my answer might simply be to put a turbo on the NSX and model it after the FX500. I don’t think I’ll ever sell my NSX.
Anyhow, I’ll stop ranting about myself since this thread is about you Turbo2go… I hope this helps.
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Here’s my long story about the NSX. Perhaps this can shed some light on the car and it’s capabilites. I bought my ‘91 nine years ago because I thought it was one of the coolest and best looking cars on the planet. That’s my personal opinion, but I think a lot of people also share that point of view. I wasn’t aware of how great of a driver’s car it was.
It wasn’t until I took it to the track several years later that I realized how amazing it was. Now after 30-40 track days in the NSX, the car is still faster than I am (Billy Johnson is 5 seconds faster than me in my own car at Buttonwillow). However, I’m fast enough in it to be personally VERY satisfied with the NSX’s performance. It’s not the fastest car and I’m not the fastest driver by any means but the car is very rewarding. For example, I spent last weekend at Laguna Seca with Trackmasters. I ran in the advanced group and spent the weekend passing GT3’s, 911 Turbo, Nissan GTR, M3’s, Z06’s, 997’s and an F360. I only got passed once and it was by a GT2 on Hoosiers. I know it’s not racing and I know it may sounds corny, but passing today’s modern sports cars in an HPDE advanced group is still very satisfying… especially with a full stock interior, A/C, Stereo, bone stock motor and quiet stock exhaust at Seca. I ran a 1:42.87, which was very satisfying.
I was with a buddy of mine at Laguna Seca. He has a striped out 997. His goal is total weight reduction and building a track-dedicated car. No interior, no sound deadening, no A/C, no stereo, no wipers, lightweight flywheel, aftermarket LSD, GT3RS wing, GT3 seats, PSS 10’s etc. We were both running R comps and the NSX was still turning quicker lap times. I’m pretty certain his car is quicker, but that day with both of us driving, the NSX was still putting down quicker lap times… and it looks fairly stock. I like the stock looking sleeper aspect of my car and I love it when people at the track ask what I’ve done with the motor and my answer is “bone stock motor except for I/H/E and it has 104k miles on it”. By the way, my wife still drives the car on the weekend to run errands. This speaks volumes about the NSX.
Here’s what I’ve done to my car to make it a fantastic track car:
• Comptech non-compliance toe links and rear beam.
• Comptech header, no cats, Taitec GT Lightweight exhaust.
• Cantrell cold air intake and K&N filter.
• Brembo Gran Turismo BBK on front only. Stock rear calipers. Stainless brake lines with high temp fluid. PFC01 brake pads recommended by Billy Johnson (these are incredible and can handle more abuse than any pad I’ve used including Carbotech XP10’s).
• Penske double adjustable suspension setup by Erik Messley.
• Vented Type R hood.
• STMPO aluminum rear bumper beam.
• Dali sway bars.
• Smaller diameter and lighter Sparco steering wheel with quick release NRG hub.
• Japanese short gears and lightweight flywheel. Stock clutch.
• Nitto NT01 R compound tires: 235 front, 275 rear (these are great tires).
• Autowave baffled oil pan with Accusump.
I’ve also had quite a bit of professional instruction from Billy Johnson. I would have to say this was my single most effective investment. For quicker lap times and safer driving I would suggest proffesional coaching as a first priority. Billy has helped me drive dramatically quicker and most importantly safer. If you ever have the opportunity for Billy or a true pro to drive your car, I would suggest doing so (if you trust them). This will open your eyes to what the car is capable of and what your benchmark is. If Billy doesn’t live by you, try to find a great professional instructor. Please keep in mind that more than half of the instructors I’ve worked with are subpar and some are downright bad. Find a good one.
I’ve been wondering what my next track car will be: GT3RS, GTR, Z06, Exige S? I think my answer might simply be to put a turbo on the NSX and model it after the FX500. I don’t think I’ll ever sell my NSX.
Anyhow, I’ll stop ranting about myself since this thread is about you Turbo2go… I hope this helps.
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^^^Awesome post.
Goes to show you that whatever you're sitting in, is limited by the driver and the delta between what is a good track car and what isnt, is maybe even irrelevant. That GT3RS should have departed over the horizon, but it didnt. Awesome lines in the NSX. Great smooth and level headed driving made up for a massive HP deficit.
Turbo, go out and get an enclosed trailer with power and a louvre, stuff it full of compressors, tools and rubber, get a tow vehicle, buy the STMPO cage that is in the BS Forum (or buy my Carbing), rip out your fender liners so you can run 245s upfront and rid yourself of that pretty Type R wing and man up and get something massive back there.
You may even want to paint your car blue youre going to feel so fast.
Goes to show you that whatever you're sitting in, is limited by the driver and the delta between what is a good track car and what isnt, is maybe even irrelevant. That GT3RS should have departed over the horizon, but it didnt. Awesome lines in the NSX. Great smooth and level headed driving made up for a massive HP deficit.
Turbo, go out and get an enclosed trailer with power and a louvre, stuff it full of compressors, tools and rubber, get a tow vehicle, buy the STMPO cage that is in the BS Forum (or buy my Carbing), rip out your fender liners so you can run 245s upfront and rid yourself of that pretty Type R wing and man up and get something massive back there.
You may even want to paint your car blue youre going to feel so fast.
Ryneen had a great trackday! BTW I feel as he does about the capability of a lightly modded nsx.But the biggger point as always comes back to the driver.I have had plenty of days like ryneen passing all sorts of cars,you'd think would be faster.The nsx track guys who feel the same all have certain things in common:skill,aptitude,willingness to learn,resources to practice constructively,a competative nature.....all of these qualities would make you fast in anything over time.That is why we always have the "heated" discussions on prime about the nsx's track abilities or lack there of vs car x...the real x factor is the driver......If you have the patience ,the tolerance ,and the humility to become a fast driver then the nsx only needs a few key mods to be competative with any of the newer sports cars.
Ryneen, pulling 1:42.87 is very impressive at Laguna Seca with what you have given that Randy Pobst managed a 1:43 with the Cayman S (presumably totally stock). Clarkson was in the 1:57 range and he was in a 02+. A few years ago three of us while really duking it with pretty much minor mods like Bilstein/Koni and sway bars only, OEM brakes but the other two were on R compound and one on stock wheels, we were in the 1:54 to 1:56 range. You sure that was not a 1:52.87 :wink:
As John aptly stated (it seems we keep reinforcing each other in these posts ...) the driver is the key; passing other cars is not a benchmark of the other cars' capabilities. That GT3RS should have gained a full half lap if it was in the hands of a better driver or perhaps he wasn't pushing.
But very nice lines and driving in keeping the NSX "good, really" :smile:
As John aptly stated (it seems we keep reinforcing each other in these posts ...) the driver is the key; passing other cars is not a benchmark of the other cars' capabilities. That GT3RS should have gained a full half lap if it was in the hands of a better driver or perhaps he wasn't pushing.
But very nice lines and driving in keeping the NSX "good, really" :smile:
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Great driving Ryan!
Good line, great steering input, the car looks like it was handling well. You remember WSIR where I back-to-backed your car and that white GT3? The GT3 is a fantastic car but it really made me appreciate the NSX more after hopping back in your car. If you go with either the Z06 or M3, both of which would need a brake upgrade that's more expensive than the brake upgrade on your car. The GTR needs expensive 2pc rotors and pads to handle track use, but the GT3 and Exige would probably be fine as is. The M3 would need suspension, baffled pan, and bushing work, but a good E46 would probably be the least expensive of all of them. GTR and Z06 tires would be very expensive, and GT3 tires wouldn't be too much better.
I would think any of the cars listed would be great track toys, but your height probably won't be very good for an Exige. I like all of the options you said, but I would say you have to drive my car once I turbo it later this month and track it and see what you think.
I wouldn't doubt Randy did a 1:43. Ryan did a great job and has made very good choices in his modifications. Clarkson was driving a stock 02 with smaller tires, and he's not the best driver in the world. I'm sure with a day or two more under his belt at LS, Ryan could get near 1:40.0 if not break into the 30's. Use a stop watch, he did a 42
Billy
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