hood pins on aftermarket type R hood. anyone using them?

[NSXkkk]

aftermarket hood may flip up. anyone put hood pins on his R hood?
i also heard about it will vibrate under high speed. like 100mile/hr.

this kinda problem is just on type R hood or all of them? what kind of hood pins do you guys recommend?

 

[sokudo88]

im not using any on my R hood. you shud be ok. im just not a big fan of the hood pins. too tacky ...

 

[4AU4LIFE]

I have used the SOS CF vented type hood for a few years. It did flex a bit at times driving down the road at highway speeds. I never used hood pins.
I had always wondered if having the front undertray or radiator duct would help reduce or even eliminate that problem.
Certainly not a fan of the pins myself. Makes the car look to ricey. IMHO

 

[scorp965]

Safety takes priority over aesthetics, imo.

I am using the hoodpins.com billet self-latching pins, I had the black version on my marga hills hood before the 2002 conversion. The hood will lift visibly over 100mph, if you intend to drive 150mph+, it would be irresponsible not to run some kind of hood pin, as you're betting your life on threaded fiberglass (VIS, seibon, etc.), or a nutsert held in by fiberglass resin.

 

[NSXkkk]

they dont look bad on the hood. i think i will get them when i make my conversion.

 

[4AU4LIFE]

I did find a way to eliminate all the flexing and shaking of the CF hood....I took it off and went back to OEM.:smile:
BTW, scorp, those pins blend in very well.:wink:

 

[stuntman]

Not necessary imo.

Its a catch 22, you are cutting holes into fiberglass/carbon, then drilling holes into it and holding the pins on place with 3 rivits.

I've seen poorly installed hood pins tear through the hood and flip up on racecars with gutted stock latches.

I've seen hoods (carbon, aluminum, and steel) flip up at 120+. Worst case you damage your hood, crack a windshield and maybe damage your roof. You won't necessarily crash because of it since all hoods allow you to see at the base of the windshield in case it does flip up.

If you retain the stock latches and locks, imo you don't NEED hood pins.

0.02

 

[scorp965]

Its a catch 22, you are cutting holes into fiberglass/carbon, then drilling holes into it and holding the pins on place with 3 rivits.

The strength of pins does NOT come from the 3 rivets, they're just there to hold the pin in place for latching. You have a 1/2" hole in the hood for the pin, with the rest of the hood pin sitting over the fiberglass structure of the hood, this contact patch, between the hood pin and the hood, is your strength area.

You would need a huge chunk of hood to tear out of the material in order for a hood pin to not work properly, basically, you would need the entire structure of the hood to fail and crack away. If you had an idiot install them, and make 3-4 'test' holes while trying to line the pins up, then there might not be any material under the pin, or if you use an 'aerocatch' style pin, which requires a large chunk of hood to be cut away, using only the retaining screws for strength, then this might become an issue, but its not a concern with conventional, or conventionally styled, hood pins.

 

[stuntman]

We use composite hoods and hood latches on many racecars. You don't even need the rivits to make the system worked (as you explained). But, rivits don't last that long in fiberglass as the hole is not as strong as metal and starts to fray. The 1/2" hole combined with two small holes for rivits weakens the overall area under the hood pin "pad". Over time the rivit holes and hood pin holes can get bigger and yes eventually tear through. This can be compounded by poor quality hoods.

Quite often people's opinions and perspective is biased from what they have bought or done to their cars, they will also justify and defend their actions and occasionally lose perspective of reality. My whole point is that for a dd car, its not necessary. Sure you can do it but I'm bringing up both sides of the story from doing this and seeing how hood pins on hoods start to degrade over time and use.

Its up to the reader to decide if the looks, functionality, and drawbacks are worth it.

0.02

 

[scorp965]

We use composite hoods and hood latches on many racecars. You don't even need the rivits to make the system worked (as you explained). But, rivits don't last that long in fiberglass as the hole is not as strong as metal and starts to fray. The 1/2" hole combined with two small holes for rivits weakens the overall area under the hood pin "pad". Over time the rivit holes and hood pin holes can get bigger and yes eventually tear through. This can be compounded by poor quality hoods.

So its better to rely on threaded fiberglass, or nutserts held in by a thin layer of fiberglass or resin, instead of a patch of the thickest part of the hood's structure? The strongest possible retainment mechanism is going to be properly installed hood pins, if its a cheap hood, its only a stronger argument in favor of hood pins, if they cannot get the strucutral material of the hood right, do you really think they're going to be able to provide a fitting strong enough to allow use of an OEM latch?

Quite often people's opinions and perspective is biased from what they have bought or done to their cars, they will also justify and defend their actions and occasionally lose perspective of reality.

So having experience in an area warps one's perspective of reality? I have used hoods with and without hood pins, when I watch a huge air brake flexing in front of me while at speed, I don't want to trust my life to an OEM latch designed to be inserted into metal, instead secured to a fiberglass insert. I want the strongest possible method of keeping that hood in the position its supposed to be in, secured to the car.

My whole point is that for a dd car, its not necessary. Sure you can do it but I'm bringing up both sides of the story from doing this and seeing how hood pins on hoods start to degrade over time and use.

I had a friend with a modified porsche total his vehicle due to an aftermarket hood which was not secured with hood pins - what is the SAFETY advantage to using the OEM latch, improperly secured using fiberglass to the hood, instead of hood pins?

 

[KooLaid]

Hey scorp, I like the pins you're running. However, how do you pop the hood with the latches engaged? Is there a way to keep them unlatched, so that you can pop the stock hood pop? Or do you have to eliminate stock latch?

 

[NSXkkk]

after watching 2 videoes of hood flying up, i think it's necessary to have hood pins if i go aftermarket type R hood.

BTW, scrop, which material is better to use hood pins. fiber glass or carbon fiber?

 

[stuntman]

I'm around aftermarket hoods and hood pins going 130+ on a daily basis. I've also been around most makes of hoods and hood pins.

It is rare to have these failures that you mention, otherwise you would hear it on forums as a bigger problem, but like everything else, failures do happen.

My whole point is for a dd car going dd speeds, its not necessary and failrures are rare. I also mentioned the downsides that hoodpins create, but of course they are another measure for safety, so why not put 4 of them on?

I've seen people crash for the dumbest of reasons, a hood flying up on you will not automatically make you crash.

If you buy a cheap hood, it might be a good idea to install the pins, if you track your car often or drive like an idiot on the street, yes hood pins are another measure to prevent the hood from coming up. But if you just drive on the street and occasionally go fast, its not necessary.

Are hood pins another measure to keep your hood from coming up? -yes. But read what happens to them over time and decide on what option is best for you rather than hear 1 side of a story and try to get scared into doing something that might not be necessary.

I'm around these things a lot and if you were too it would have been nice to hear the advantages, disadvantages, and what to expect long term from using hood pins.

0.02

 

[KooLaid]

Actually, I'd prefer to have a cable system. One short 6" or less cable on each corner incase the latch does fail. So you'd have to pop the hood, unhook the cables, then lift. Anyone make something like that?

 

[Oyagi]

Call me paranoid, but if I run an aftermarket hood, I'm gonna run hood pins.

I like Scorps, but settled on the NRG pins:

 

[scorp965]

Hey scorp, I like the pins you're running. However, how do you pop the hood with the latches engaged? Is there a way to keep them unlatched, so that you can pop the stock hood pop? Or do you have to eliminate stock latch?

In this car, the stock latch has been deleted, it is removed from the car, and a carbon fiber duct panel was created without a latch hole, only holes for the pins.

Before the 2002 update, when I was using a Marga Hills hood, I used both systems, the latch and hood pins; the latch operated fine, and the pins were a safety measure, there was enough give to 'pop' the hood while still being pinned, then the pins were removed, and the hood could be raised. To close the hood, it was lowered until it latched, and the pins would 'self-latch' (they're spring loaded).

While having a sudden impact on your windshield, combined with going from full to zero visibility, and the sudden rush of air and or glass from your hood latch failure will not guaranty a crash, its not an experience any of us wants to go through, and will make a safe slow down of the car nearly impossible at freeway speeds - how will you know its safe not to slow down? Perhaps you will spear into a stopped car at freeway speed while 'safely' negotiating a lane change to the shoulder. Perhaps you won't see the car that has just changed lanes into your area of the freeway post failure?

The point is, a hood pin system is safer than any latch on aftermarket composite hoods, and is a smart thing to do; if you would rather 'look cleaner' than be safe, its your decision to make; my reality has not been changed by spending 100 bucks on hood pins, I do not sell them, but I do use them.

 

[02#154]

I've basically "killed" every thread about hood pins that I've posted this question to, but I'm going to ask again here to see if anyone has an answer; in all of the others, nobody ever addressed my question and like I said, the thread suddenly stopped getting new posts.

The NSX-R has a CF hood. The NSX-R does not have hood pins. Nobody seems to have any issues with the NSX-R and its lack of hood pins. What makes the NSX-R hood safe, but aftermarket hoods dangerous without hood pins? Are they manufactured differently (if so, can that fact be proven?)? Or would all of you "use hood pins" advocates put hood pins onto the OEM hood if they owned a real NSX-R?

J

 

[NSXkkk]

i have one question here. if i get type r replica hood, do i still use my original hood latch with the new hood, or hood already comes with latch. i never bought any aftermarket hood.

 

[scorp965]

The NSX-R has a CF hood. The NSX-R does not have hood pins. Nobody seems to have any issues with the NSX-R and its lack of hood pins. What makes the NSX-R hood safe, but aftermarket hoods dangerous without hood pins? Are they manufactured differently (if so, can that fact be proven?)? Or would all of you "use hood pins" advocates put hood pins onto the OEM hood if they owned a real NSX-R?

The construction of the OEM NSX-R hood results in a higher level of strength than aftermarket hoods, it has been carefully designed to work with the OEM hood latch by a multi-billion-dollar automaker, who is concerned about their liability on a limited edition production vehicle; this is quite different from a random shop looking to bang something out that features a vent and fits "okay".

The NSX-R also features aerodynamic enhancements to reduce the forces acting on the hood, such as underbody panels and an internal hood duct.

To quote Honda, on the construction of the OEM hood:

Carbon fiber front hood with outlet duct, formed of CFRP (Carbon Fiber Reinforced Plastic) using an autoclave

In the case of the NSX-R, I would trust Honda more than I would trust VIS, Seibon, Marga Hills, or in my case, Gt-rom. If you're set on an NSX-R hood, and do not want to play with hood pins, there is an OEM Honda NA-2 R hood FS right now, on Yahoo Japan, for $3k + shipping.

 

[02#154]

The construction of the OEM NSX-R hood results in a higher level of strength than aftermarket hoods, it has been carefully designed to work with the OEM hood latch by a multi-billion-dollar automaker, who is concerned about their liability on a limited edition production vehicle; this is quite different from a random shop looking to bang something out that features a vent and fits "okay".

The NSX-R also features aerodynamic enhancements to reduce the forces acting on the hood, such as underbody panels and an internal hood duct.

To quote Honda, on the construction of the OEM hood:


In the case of the NSX-R, I would trust Honda more than I would trust VIS, Seibon, Marga Hills, or in my case, Gt-rom. If you're set on an NSX-R hood, and do not want to play with hood pins, there is an OEM Honda NA-2 R hood FS right now, on Yahoo Japan, for $3k + shipping.

In your opinion, are there any aftermarket CF hoods that don't require hood pins? Or can only a multi-billion-dollar automaker, to use your term, be capable of this?

J

 

[scorp965]

In your opinion, are there any aftermarket CF hoods that don't require hood pins? Or can only a multi-billion-dollar automaker, to use your term, be capable of this?

J

My view is, knowing the dangers and the use my car sees, why take the chance? As I said above, what is the safety disadvantage to using hood pins?

Anytime a hood flexes at speed, its not a confidence booster, downforce, procar, vis, seibon, marga hills, and gt-rom all flex at some speed. The OEM aluminum hood does not flex, I do not know if the OEM NA2-R hood flexes, but there is an owner in SoCal who has this hood installed (without pins).

I would rather know the hood is secure, than hope it is. :smile:

 

[02#154]

My view is, knowing the dangers and the use my car sees, why take the chance? As I said above, what is the safety disadvantage to using hood pins?

I would rather know the hood is secure, than hope it is. :smile:

There does not exist a safety disadvantage. There exists an aesthetic disadvantage. I don't think anyone would ever say that using hood pins is less safe then not.

The question posed to you by me was, (in your opinion) are there any aftermarket hoods that you deem safe enough hood pins? I'll also add, if you had a real NSX-R, would you use put hood pins on it? Can a well-built aftermarket CF hood (again, do you think one even exists?) be made safe by installing the other NSX-R doo-dads? Can an aftermarket hood be placed onto the NSX-R and be run safely without hood pins?

Basically, what I want to know is, why is the NSX-R hood safe? If it's because it's autoclaved, there is at least one aftermarket vendor who (claims to) use an autoclave for their hoods. Would that one be good enough? Again, if an argument is made that a given hood is not good enough, provide proof why (not just "because it's poorly made... tell me what about it that makes it poorly made. I have my ideas about what makes a strong part, but I want to hear what "use hood pin" advocates say).

J

 

[scorp965]

In my opinion, if its an aftermarket hood, I am going to put hood pins in it.

If its produced by Honda, and they say its fine without hood pins, I would feel safe not using hood pins with it.

If its produced by company X, and it is a strong composite part, which does not exhibit flex at speed, I would be conflicted about running hood pins, but would probably run them anyway.

 

[s14_tat]

yup, had a carbon fiber oem hood on my nissan 240 and at highway speeds i would see the hood lift from air being trapped underneth it. I ran hood pins just in case because the damn safety latch cracked and broke off on me on the first day I put the hood on!!!. I will never trust any aftermarket hood without hood pins that is why I would never put one on my nsx because I don't like the way the hood pins ruin the look of the car.

 

[stuntman]

The NSX-R is one of those unicorns that can never be paralleled. No aftermarket hood manufacturer can match the OEM NSX-R and thus no aftermarket hood is safe without hood pins.

It dosn't really matter if the hood is autoclaved, vacuum bagged, or wet lay-up. What would make the stock mechanism unsafe on an aftermarket hood would be if the hood manufacturer installed the stock latch in a crappy way that would be prone to cracking and tearing off, causing the hood to flip up.

The design of the NSX hood allows for quite a bit of view at the bottom of the hood if the hood did come up. So you wouldn't be completely blind and you would actually have quite a bit of vision below the bottom of the hood to see -if your hood actually did come up.

If you buy a crappy $400 hood, then it might be a good idea to use hood pins. BUT, if the hood has a vent, it greatly reduces the high pressure area under the hood -which would cause stress against the stock latch. If you have a crappy cheap hood that dosn't have any vents in it, then their would be a lot more stress on the stock latch mechanism (which on a cheap hood increases the chance of failure), and in that case I would recommend using hood latches as I too have seen non-vented hoods have the same problem as described above.

If you have an NSX-R replica hood, or an aftermarket hood with a vent, it will vent the high pressure air under the hood which will greatly reduce the stress on the stock latch mechanism and IMO, you wouldn't need hood latches.

But if I were tracking a car with a cheap hood often, even with the NSX-R type vent, I would put hood pins on it. But if it wan an occasionally fast driven street car, i wouldnt bother especially if it had the R-type vent.

But what do I know...