Couldn'y have said it better myself.
Here's a Question... your NSX or your mate?
- Thread starter 94lude
- Start date
A used NSX may hold its value or even slightly appreciate. Or, it may depreciate.
A house may appreciate. Or, it may depreciate.
Both a car and a house are not the same as other, more conventional investments, because each provides utility (value) while it is being held. So you need to look beyond its value solely as an investment.
One final point - a home is a necessity, whereas an NSX is usually not.
Capiche.
I agree that for the right woman you do what it takes to keep her. But that flip side sometimes is pretty ugly and you start wondering what do I have to give up next. Somewhere you draw a line to mantain your own worth and self respect. Somewhere you do question if this is it or what will be next. I just spent the weekend with some friends in Orlando. A wonderful couple (Vince and Deb) and Vince was lucky enough that she has the car bug. She now owns an S2k and he has a Comptech Zanardi. Nice garage. Hence the right woman! Nough said.
If you are even contemplating picking the NSX over your GF, then she's not the one. If she is, then you'd give up everything for her... so move along.
Houses and kids are more important than any car but...
Just let her drive it....she will change her mind
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Joseph Gavazza
99 White/blk NSX
92 Lexus LS400
01 VW GTI VR6
Just let her drive it....she will change her mind
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Joseph Gavazza
99 White/blk NSX
92 Lexus LS400
01 VW GTI VR6
Yo NSXTASY:
Excuse me, but this 94LUDE guy lives in San Jose, CA, not Chicago, and in San Jose a house will absolutely positively appreciate 10-20%/year, and an NSX is very unlikely to appreciate and most likely will depreciate 5-10%/year, as they have for the last several years.
So if the girl friend or wife thinks for a variety of practical reasons that buying a house is more important than buying an exotic car, I would have to agree, and my logic above should help make the correct decision.
Upon selling the house in a few years, 94LUDE will have enough money to buying serveral NSXs w/ cold cash. Don't forget that after living in your primary home for two years, you may sell the house and exclude from all taxation up to $500,000 in profit per couple per house. And you can do this every two years for the rest of your life! This is a no brainer.
Where do you think I got the $ to pay cash for my NSX, Lexus 1, Lexus 2 and Toyota truck, and another house? That's right, from the tax-free profits on the sale of my last home in San Diego. Real estate values in CA will plummet only when the next major asteroid hits Earth, which I think you would agree is a low probabilty in all our lifetimes.
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NSXY
95 NSX-T, 5 sp, Red/Tan, Tubi exhaust, Dali street anti-sway bars, Dunlop SP9000s
Yo YOself, bub.
And that's exactly what they said about buying stock in Enron. For that matter, the same was probably said about buying a condo in lower Manhattan, up until last September.
Over a long period of time, real estate usually rise in value, and cars usually fall in value. But neither is guaranteed to rise or fall. In the short term, it is even more possible for real estate to fall. And, for the several years preceding the start of the current recession, the prices of early ('91-92) NSXs were quite stable to slightly rising.
[This message has been edited by nsxtasy (edited 27 June 2002).]
Maybe you had better read this: http://www.msnbc.com/modules/exports/ct_email.asp?/news/177595.asp
NSXY,
isn't your investment "idea" a little naive?
Who would work if that is really the case in SouthCa when you only need the "first" money to buy a house, live in it, sell it, buy other house (and use the other money to live and buy exotics!
) and so on till being Bill Gates (you know, doubling money every five years leads to be multi-billionaire in a couple decades, power of the mathematic!).
Here in Switzerland it unfortunately is not the case...
isn't your investment "idea" a little naive?
Who would work if that is really the case in SouthCa when you only need the "first" money to buy a house, live in it, sell it, buy other house (and use the other money to live and buy exotics!
Here in Switzerland it unfortunately is not the case...
- Joined
- 1 September 2001
- Messages
- 4,123
There are over 6.3 billion people on this earth, and as far as significant others are concerned, don't worry, they'll make more. The population of the planet is growing by the equivalent of a NYC every month, and in 50 years the population will double. Right now, however, there is only one NSX for every 2.7 million people. Got yours?
I'd be pretty pissed off if my g'f said something like that. Especially since I could probably find another girlfreind who'd appreciate the car. It's all about control here as everyone has been saying. I understand there is give and take in every relationship, but not something as extreme as not following your dreams, or hobbies. Be yourself, don't do drastic change for someone else. You'll regret it later if you do. You only live once.
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'91 BLK/BLK
"SLAKJAW"
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'91 BLK/BLK
"SLAKJAW"
Take the NSX man!
More on the road, better to go.
The NSX can get you more chicks easily.
Leave the Targa off and they will be jumping in like fish in a boat!
More on the road, better to go.
The NSX can get you more chicks easily.
Leave the Targa off and they will be jumping in like fish in a boat!
Originally posted by gheba_nsx:
NSXY,
isn't your investment "idea" a little naive?
Who would work if that is really the case in SouthCa when you only need the "first" money to buy a house, live in it, sell it, buy other house (and use the other money to live and buy exotics!) and so on till being Bill Gates (you know, doubling money every five years leads to be multi-billionaire in a couple decades, power of the mathematic!).
Here in Switzerland it unfortunately is not the case...
gheba_nsx:
This is not an "idea", it's reality in the urbanized high-tech coastal areas of the US. No, I'm not naive at all, because I've not only done it already, I'm am continuing to do it now. What I wrote above is not only true for me, but also true for selected others who are willing to look for good real estate deals (fixers) in highly desired coastal areas, improve the property while living there and move to a next property after selling every two years. In time, such people no longer need to work for others (jobs). They work for themselves, but with no income tax or capital gains tax!
Yes, one either needs to have income or have a cash backing to START the process, but after excluding $500,000 in capital gain every two years, just calculate for yourself how many times you'd need to flip homes before not having to work any more.
But there are all kinds of people with all kinds of motivation, so this only works for those who want it to make it work. Sometimes it's difficult for some people to accept certain realities, even when it's right in front of thier faces, completely viable, legal and sponsored by the IRS.
For example, I have a close relative who's always been financially strapped. She knows from watching me that it's possible to make big money this way, but she's always wanted to live and die in the same rural house she bought 30 years ago in interior CA (100 miles inland), where real esate prices have not escalated like they continue to do in urban high-tech coastal areas. My wife and I will soon retire from our jobs at relatively young ages, but that won't mean that we won't continue to make good non-taxable money for many years to come, unless of course, the congress changes the 1997 real estate capital gain tax laws, which they're unlikely to do, because they want to get reelected.
I love my NSX, but right now I'd sell it in a snap, if I needed $ to purchase a house that in two years I could sell for a big non-taxable profit. I'd then buy a newer and better NSX garage queen, cash, like I did two years ago.
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NSXY
95 NSX-T, 5 sp, Red/Tan, Tubi exhaust, Dali street anti-sway bars, Dunlop SP9000s
Steveny:
Yes, I had read that. It missed.
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NSXY
95 NSX-T, 5 sp, Red/Tan, Tubi exhaust, Dali street anti-sway bars, Dunlop SP9000s
Carefully selecting undervalued properties (as you are doing) and spending money and labor to fix them up (as you are doing) can indeed maximize the chances of a tidy profit. Just as you can always make a profit in the stock market if you choose undervalued stocks (which is a big "if"). However, before calculating your profit, you've got to take into account not only your initial purchase price, but also your renovation costs and some value of the labor you put in. The key is picking the right investment in the first place, one that you think you can buy for less than it's worth. Even in doing so, just as in stocks, there is no guarantee that you will make a sizable profit.
Please nsxtasy:
Give it up... Really, it's transparently silly to compare CA coastal home investments to finding undervalued stocks. Many stock PEs are now a dime a dozen and at medium-term lows, and do you see everyone scooping them up?
And..."no guarantees" in life...wow, I never thought of that....?!!!! If you want something close to a "guarantee," it's the housing industry, becuase people need shelter, not company quasi-ownership and proxy voting.
I think I'll stop what I've been doing since 1996 and start buying 10 year old NSXs as fast as I can, because there's no IRS capital gains tax on the profits that I'll make from personal use car sales!!!! Oh, but there won't be any sizable profits either..., because NSX's have always depreciated!
The many hundreds or thousands of original speculators who purchased thier 1991 garage queens in 1990-91 know very well that they lost money, ansd so does the new buyerr of a 2002.
However unfortunate for many, many of us have also benefited from this. My 95 NSX-T was purchased by the original owner from Ed Voyles Acura (GA) for ~$84,000 and then stored in a garage for 5 years. In 2000, I bought it in mint condition with ~2,800 miles (essentially new car) for $54,500. Net result to original owner: a $30,000 non-tax deductible loss, (35.7% depreciation in 5 years), @ $10.71/mile driven.
Now, two years later, my NSX has ~13,000 miles and continues to depreciate, albeit at a much slower rate: it is now worth ~$50,000 in SoCal. It is clear therefore that buying an older garage queen NSX has the benefit of slow depreciation, but to date, unfortunately, NSX's have only shown depreciation, never appreciation, so there's no history there for making good money.
So, my reality is that I bought a slowly depreciating, mint condition NSX with non-taxable profits from the sale of my rapidly appreciating primary residence. And when I buy a 2000-01 NSX, probably in 2004, I'll let you know right here on NSX Prime how much my property appreciated between now and then, after I sell it, with no guarantees.
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NSXY
95 NSX-T, 5 sp, Red/Tan, Tubi exhaust, Dali street anti-sway bars, Dunlop SP9000s
Yeah, whatever.
Posted by NSXY
"Yo NSXTASY:
Excuse me, but this 94LUDE guy lives in San Jose, CA, not Chicago, and in San Jose a house will absolutely positively appreciate 10-20%/year, and an NSX is very unlikely to appreciate and most likely will depreciate 5-10%/year, as they have for the last several years.
Upon selling the house in a few years, 94LUDE will have enough money to buying serveral NSXs w/ cold cash. Don't forget that after living in your primary home for two years, you may sell the house and exclude from all taxation up to $500,000 in profit per couple per house. And you can do this every two years for the rest of your life! This is a no brainer.
Where do you think I got the $ to pay cash for my NSX, Lexus 1, Lexus 2 and Toyota truck, and another house? That's right, from the tax-free profits on the sale of my last home in San Diego. Real estate values in CA will plummet only when the next major asteroid hits Earth, which I think you would agree is a low probabilty in all our lifetimes."
NSXY, your attitude reminds me of alot of people a few years ago when talking about the high tech sector in the stock market.
I hear that housing prices in San Jose are stabilizing now. You use the word 'absolutely', so if I were to purchase a house today at $400k in San Jose, you are telling me that next year this house will be worth at least $440k, maybe even $480k? and in two years it will be worth $484k-$576? That would definitely be a nice return on investment and I would maybe believe this statement if you said it in 1998, but the housing market has slowed down since then, especially in San Jose and homes just are not appreciately that fast anymore.
In response to the original question posted. I had the same dilema, house or NSX? I chose the NSX because I knew I could pay it off quickly and I could not get a home load with an NSX car payment on my credit. I also knew that if I purchased a home that the mortgage plus normal housing expenses would make it impossible for me to get the NSX anytime soon. So I basically, took part of my downpayment money, purchased the NSX and began re-saving the downpayment money and paying off the NSX fast. 1.5 years later, I got my house (which actually has appreciated 10% per year.
)
Kenric
"Yo NSXTASY:
Excuse me, but this 94LUDE guy lives in San Jose, CA, not Chicago, and in San Jose a house will absolutely positively appreciate 10-20%/year, and an NSX is very unlikely to appreciate and most likely will depreciate 5-10%/year, as they have for the last several years.
Upon selling the house in a few years, 94LUDE will have enough money to buying serveral NSXs w/ cold cash. Don't forget that after living in your primary home for two years, you may sell the house and exclude from all taxation up to $500,000 in profit per couple per house. And you can do this every two years for the rest of your life! This is a no brainer.
Where do you think I got the $ to pay cash for my NSX, Lexus 1, Lexus 2 and Toyota truck, and another house? That's right, from the tax-free profits on the sale of my last home in San Diego. Real estate values in CA will plummet only when the next major asteroid hits Earth, which I think you would agree is a low probabilty in all our lifetimes."
NSXY, your attitude reminds me of alot of people a few years ago when talking about the high tech sector in the stock market.
I hear that housing prices in San Jose are stabilizing now. You use the word 'absolutely', so if I were to purchase a house today at $400k in San Jose, you are telling me that next year this house will be worth at least $440k, maybe even $480k? and in two years it will be worth $484k-$576? That would definitely be a nice return on investment and I would maybe believe this statement if you said it in 1998, but the housing market has slowed down since then, especially in San Jose and homes just are not appreciately that fast anymore.
In response to the original question posted. I had the same dilema, house or NSX? I chose the NSX because I knew I could pay it off quickly and I could not get a home load with an NSX car payment on my credit. I also knew that if I purchased a home that the mortgage plus normal housing expenses would make it impossible for me to get the NSX anytime soon. So I basically, took part of my downpayment money, purchased the NSX and began re-saving the downpayment money and paying off the NSX fast. 1.5 years later, I got my house (which actually has appreciated 10% per year.
Kenric
dont forget about the interest deduction when you first finance a house. for the life of the loan you get to deduct all interest payments. when you first take the loan out, almost the entire payment IS interest.
SO, if you buy a house first your tax deduction will make you money, irregardless of the whole appreciation bit.
SO, if you buy a house first your tax deduction will make you money, irregardless of the whole appreciation bit.
A tax deduction doesn't "make money". It lowers the net amount you pay for expenses (in this case, interest and property taxes).
I'm not saying that real estate is a bad investment; it is indeed generally a good investment, with a high likelihood (albeit not a guarantee) of appreciation. Furthermore, the government subsidizes many of the expenses of home ownership through tax deductions, as well as deferring the tax on appreciation gains when you move. But what makes it particularly appealing is that, in addition to the financial aspects of the investment, it provides you with utility in the form of a place to live - something you need anyway. All of this is why home ownership is a desirable goal for most of us, one that may take a higher priority than our desire for our favorite sports car.
I'm not saying that real estate is a bad investment; it is indeed generally a good investment, with a high likelihood (albeit not a guarantee) of appreciation. Furthermore, the government subsidizes many of the expenses of home ownership through tax deductions, as well as deferring the tax on appreciation gains when you move. But what makes it particularly appealing is that, in addition to the financial aspects of the investment, it provides you with utility in the form of a place to live - something you need anyway. All of this is why home ownership is a desirable goal for most of us, one that may take a higher priority than our desire for our favorite sports car.
- Joined
- 19 April 2001
- Messages
- 517
I agree with nsxtacy. This real estate theory is seriously flawed. Although real estate prices have appreciated in double digit (sometimes triple digit) percentages over the past 5 years, this rate is not likely to continue and is definitely is not "guaranteed"....even in San Jose.
First of all, appreciation refers to when the property value goes up due to market conditions. Buying a "fixer" and making IMPROVEMENTS does not count as appreciation because time and labor is being used to make the property more valuable. If you buy a shack for $200,000, tear it down, build a new house and sell it for $1,000,000, the property didn't "appreciate" by $800,000; rather, the improvements increased the value by $800,000. And, keep in mind, not everyone wants to buy a POS "fixer", live in it for 2 years while renovating, then move every 2 years.
Second, if this theory is true, why would you buy an NSX, 2 Lexuses, and a Toyota. That would be roughly $200,000 spent on cars. Using the real estate theory, you could use that $200,000 to put as a down payment for multiple properties worth $1,000,000 or $2,000,000 total (depending on whether you make a 20% or 10% down payment) Then accordingly, that $1,000,000 (on the low side) will go up at least 10% per year (on the low side) for 2 years. You could then sell the $1,000,000 property for $1,210,000, making $210,000. $210,000 profit on a $200,000 investment is 109.5%. If you can do that, why waste your money on a car...or anything at all? I know many people who will lend you money at 50% APR that you can use to turn into a 109.5% gain. It's that easy, right?
Third, real estate has not historically increased at a 10-20% rate. I believe it is more like 3%, just slightly ahead of inflation. Look at homes that were purchased in 1989 and 1990 and you can see how their values dropped for 8 years before they finally came up to their original purchase price. My roommate from college purchased a home in Palo Alto (which should have the same real estate trends as San Jose) two years ago and has already seen the value drop from $1.4M to about $1.2M.
Lastly, the IRS rules allowing the tax free sale after 24 months of occupancy only took effect within the past 4 years. Prior to that, you had to purchase a home of greater value in order to offset your taxable gain. And who knows if the IRS will change the rules again.
I'm not saying a home is not a great investment. I also have made a lot of money in real estate over the past few years. However, I credit good luck as the prevailing reason for my success.
If you are planning on buying a home in the near future (2 years?), I would say wait on the NSX. If you're not planning on buying a home anytime soon, get the NSX and have fun.
Just my two cents.
First of all, appreciation refers to when the property value goes up due to market conditions. Buying a "fixer" and making IMPROVEMENTS does not count as appreciation because time and labor is being used to make the property more valuable. If you buy a shack for $200,000, tear it down, build a new house and sell it for $1,000,000, the property didn't "appreciate" by $800,000; rather, the improvements increased the value by $800,000. And, keep in mind, not everyone wants to buy a POS "fixer", live in it for 2 years while renovating, then move every 2 years.
Second, if this theory is true, why would you buy an NSX, 2 Lexuses, and a Toyota. That would be roughly $200,000 spent on cars. Using the real estate theory, you could use that $200,000 to put as a down payment for multiple properties worth $1,000,000 or $2,000,000 total (depending on whether you make a 20% or 10% down payment) Then accordingly, that $1,000,000 (on the low side) will go up at least 10% per year (on the low side) for 2 years. You could then sell the $1,000,000 property for $1,210,000, making $210,000. $210,000 profit on a $200,000 investment is 109.5%. If you can do that, why waste your money on a car...or anything at all? I know many people who will lend you money at 50% APR that you can use to turn into a 109.5% gain. It's that easy, right?
Third, real estate has not historically increased at a 10-20% rate. I believe it is more like 3%, just slightly ahead of inflation. Look at homes that were purchased in 1989 and 1990 and you can see how their values dropped for 8 years before they finally came up to their original purchase price. My roommate from college purchased a home in Palo Alto (which should have the same real estate trends as San Jose) two years ago and has already seen the value drop from $1.4M to about $1.2M.
Lastly, the IRS rules allowing the tax free sale after 24 months of occupancy only took effect within the past 4 years. Prior to that, you had to purchase a home of greater value in order to offset your taxable gain. And who knows if the IRS will change the rules again.
I'm not saying a home is not a great investment. I also have made a lot of money in real estate over the past few years. However, I credit good luck as the prevailing reason for my success.
If you are planning on buying a home in the near future (2 years?), I would say wait on the NSX. If you're not planning on buying a home anytime soon, get the NSX and have fun.
Just my two cents.
mea culpa, mea culpa, maxima mea cupla...
yeah, youre right nsxtasy. but, you have to have someplace to live, and unless you can live somewhere for free, i see the tax refund as "$$$ back" for something i have to pay for anyway. so in the context of rent vs. own, a $1,000 mortgage payment vs $1,000 rent payment, you get a tax deduction on the mortgage while getting zippo on the rent. depending on how you choose to look at it(pretend that you dont have the tax break until april), and voila, you have a nice refund that in retrospect pays for your nsx.
of course, the reality is that the interest deduction is only a deduction of the total cost of home ownership, specifically of the thousands of dollars youre paying someone else for the privilege of borrowing their money.
but hey, id rather call it christmas in april.
yeah, youre right nsxtasy. but, you have to have someplace to live, and unless you can live somewhere for free, i see the tax refund as "$$$ back" for something i have to pay for anyway. so in the context of rent vs. own, a $1,000 mortgage payment vs $1,000 rent payment, you get a tax deduction on the mortgage while getting zippo on the rent. depending on how you choose to look at it(pretend that you dont have the tax break until april), and voila, you have a nice refund that in retrospect pays for your nsx.
of course, the reality is that the interest deduction is only a deduction of the total cost of home ownership, specifically of the thousands of dollars youre paying someone else for the privilege of borrowing their money.
but hey, id rather call it christmas in april.
I'll take my NSX over any chick, provided, of course, that she is the one. But before I yield to her wanting me to get rid of it, she better be ready to come up with a logical and practical reason, or I won't budge. If she keeps insisting on it, then it's time for her to move on.
Oh yeah, I'll never give up my Zanardi NSX to get a house.
Oh yeah, I'll never give up my Zanardi NSX to get a house.
