Hans?

Re: Economy model for pencil necks

92 white 0650 said:
JK about that post title. :biggrin: Rumor has it that HANS is coming out with a "Sport Series" model, whatever that means, for $695. Logically they'll start with the 20 degree. It'll be a tad heavier. Anyway, just right for tin-tops. And just in time for your Christmas sleigh !! :tongue:

One thing, though, their PR writers should be more sensitive about words like "breakthrough" don't ya think?
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I am a HANS Dealer and Yes! They have announced the Sport Series, $695, weighs 2 lbs, vs. 1.3(ish) for the mid and less than 1/2lb for the Pro. I can get 'em starting in January (to miss the x-mass rush?) and I'll offer any Primer a deal!

BTW - I have a Pro for myself, and having had it beside the "normal" I'd say weight is more of a marketing thing than anything else, buy the cheapie (but get the quick release tethers - for safety and convenience!)

(Don't flame me if you are an enduro-racer and say after 3 hours stints you find saving 1 lb of weight somehow helps you - I'll flame you back and say "aren't your belts tight and pressing you into your seat most of the time? - so who cares what is weighs!)

BTW - In some race classes the NSX Coupe is considered as a factory roll cage car! I've seen some photos of crashed Targas where the targa is popped up in the front, so I'd say the roll protection is WAY more limited.
 
Many dealers (myself included) recommend to not use the quick-disconnects - stick with the standard tethers. Many HANS users just leave the device attached to their helmet, and put on/remove them together as one. Engress/Egress from the car while wearing the device is not an issue. The Q/D hardware adds weight up high and is cumbersome. Standard tethers are sleek and simple.
 
Re: Defndr is the new kid on the block?

http://www.defnder.com/

What's the low down on this? NASA sent an EM that this device is approved, but I think that means that it will be when it becomes available). It's hard to tell how this one is different from the others as the pictures are poorly posed and not comprehensive. They advertise "affordable." Any rumored price?

Just curious. Still happy with my HANS with sliding tethers.
 
So, how sufficient or insufficient is the NSX airbag at restraining a head if one is wearing a harness?

I've figured for about a decade (so a while before I ever heard of HANS) that I was fine with my 6-pt harness and helmet. After learning about HANS I figured it was essentially mandatory if no airbag, and an improvement but not necessary with airbag as airbag would provide similar function (aid neck in stopping head + helmet).
 
latzke said:
So, how sufficient or insufficient is the NSX airbag at restraining a head if one is wearing a harness?

I've figured for about a decade (so a while before I ever heard of HANS) that I was fine with my 6-pt harness and helmet. After learning about HANS I figured it was essentially mandatory if no airbag, and an improvement but not necessary with airbag as airbag would provide similar function (aid neck in stopping head + helmet).
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The Hans functions differently than an airbag - the purpose of the Hans is to maintain a certain angle between the head (think chin) and body (think chest) of the driver in a severe impact. It transfers load that would bend a helmeted driver's head quickly towards their chest, hyperextending the back of the neck (basil skull fracture territory) as a direct result of the kinematics of a driver wearing a harness and therefore only having the head/neck available to move. The reason it exists is to "manage" the driver's head, and head alone, in a crash.

Airbag - if you're wearing a 5 or 6 point belt (I'd assume you have a harness bar in your NSX) the airbag isn't likely to reach you - and since its designed to step in where the 3 point belt, which, by definition, doesn't hold the driver as well as a 5-6 point and therefore allows forward movement, may or may not even be able to touch your head let alone manage your head's angle - an all of this assume you're hitting pretty much head on - which is unlikely.

If you have any type of offset crash the airbag is going to do little for your neck if you're strapped into a 5-6 point - the HANS will.

I think equating the two as having similar functions on the track is like comparing your car to a horse - they both have similar functions too!:tongue:
 
Don't spend any more on the helmet and or any other protection than your head is worth is what I used to tell customers. Hans can be a bit uncomfortable , as are most of the restraints. The most important point made about them here is definitely to practice getting out of YOUR car with them on. Even better do it with your eyes closed, coming to an abrupt stop, not necessarily on your wheels tends to be a little disorienting.

As for cages and hoops, I have never seen one bolted through a thin floor section that was any good, and have seen several poke there way right threw after a good hard roof impact. Without proper receivers welded to an area structurally strong enough to support the possible loading a hoop or cage may encounter the tube work is useless. To many "showbars" being made these days ( at least in this area ) cute bends, useless bracing. No strength in design or mounting points.

Good stuff costs more, all the tube work I did was Chromemoly, tig welding, pressure checked. I stopped doing most of this work when I was expected to compete with guys using conduit benders, blasting cages in with sloppy mig welds.

Spend as much as you can to protect your self, a good deal of that may be the time to find the right shop to prepare you and and your car.

Just my two cents.
 
Re: Defndr is the new kid on the block?

92 white 0650 said:
http://www.defnder.com/

What's the low down on this? NASA sent an EM that this device is approved, but I think that means that it will be when it becomes available). It's hard to tell how this one is different from the others as the pictures are poorly posed and not comprehensive. They advertise "affordable." Any rumored price?
Click to expand...

New company, no FIA certification, no proven track record.... I wouldn't buy it.

My 0.2: I'll let everyone else do my hyper extension / basil fracture / race product safety testing for me. That said, if anyone gets into a 100G collision with the latest new product; they are welcome to post their results here and let me know how it went and what they did/did not save.
 
Re: Defndr is the new kid on the block?

John@Microsoft said:
New company, no FIA certification, no proven track record.... I wouldn't buy it..........
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+1.

Improvements can and will be made, like the angle adjustment, but I'm also not interested in being the beta tester. Traffic over on Trackpedia confirms that the launch date is the PRI show coming up and not last year's date as the website said. Also, price rumor is $550, presumably for the cheaper (yet to be SFI certified) model. I take it that's comparable to the HANS Sport model.

As for comments on HANS comfort, the vast majority of comments I hear is the same as my experience: once belts and headrests are adjusted etc. and belting in becomes routine, you can't tell you've got it on.
 
I love the comfort of my HANS, especially now that Ive got the HANS specific belts. They fit right in the groves and man, do they hold me down well.

The only thing is that I have limited head movement when Im waiting to go out while in pit lane, but I guess that is the point.
 
Re: Sliding tethers

The only thing is that I have limited head movement when Im waiting to go out while in pit lane, but I guess that is the point.
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Get the sliding tethers. Some of my formula car brothers are concerned that there's too much head movement with the new sliding tethers; they question if the tethers shouldn't be shorter but HANS basically poo-poos that as "sidewalk engineering" (or is it "backseat driving" :rolleyes:)?

I've seen sliding tethers on a few F-1 drivers.
 
BioBanker said:
I love the comfort of my HANS, especially now that Ive got the HANS specific belts. They fit right in the groves and man, do they hold me down well.

The only thing is that I have limited head movement when Im waiting to go out while in pit lane, but I guess that is the point.
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Dave has a special room in his basement he calls "Pit Lane" it where he dresses up before he goes out the the bars - he really does look silly in all the BDSM gear AND a HANS Device, but each to their own

92 white 0650 said:
Get the sliding tethers. Some of my formula car brothers are concerned that there's too much head movement with the new sliding tethers; they question if the tethers shouldn't be shorter but HANS basically poo-poos that as "sidewalk engineering" (or is it "backseat driving" :rolleyes:)?

I've seen sliding tethers on a few F-1 drivers.
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I'm about to order a bunch of sliding tethers, I'll order one for Dave too so he can turn his head and gawk at the "pretty boys" - the only issue is they don't have a quick release sliding tether yet, they say next year. Its easy to swap out the fixed for the sliders, all you need is a screwdriver.
 
Please feel free to refer any questions you might have regarding the NEW defnder directly via our website or via this thread and we will try to get back to you with a reply.

Otherwise we will hopefully see you at the Official Launch in December at the PRI.
 
Re: Defndr design

Hey thanks for checking in here, we appreciate the interest.

We were wondering when you'll show more detail of the design advantages the Defndr brings to the table. Is that information under wraps because of some patent issues or other last minute details or is it just a marketing thing: keeping it under wraps until the unveiling? (You going to have much fanfare, speeches, champagne, balloons and hot chicks? :biggrin:)

Anyway, we're interested in your engineering and hope to see some explicit design detail on your website eventually. Thanks and good luck.
 
We are adding some more individual detailed pics to our website in the next few days but will keep everybody informed of this. And yes it is marketing.

The only hot thing will be the defNder unless someone hotter vollenteers to wear one.

Also we have added a testing section which currently only has some basic test pics but will have the test data by the PRI
 
My hats to any company that takes the time to come to Prime and post for the select few who track their cars and are interested responding to inquiries regarding safety issues and products. Now, where is the beef ..... :tongue:
 
Just interested in people interested in us, interested in safety.

As a matter of interest how many people track their cars and use a normal 3-point harness?
 
defNder tech said:
Just interested in people interested in us, interested in safety.

As a matter of interest how many people track their cars and use a normal 3-point harness?
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A few clarifications to answer your question.

Most Prime members who frequent this forum by definition have an interest in tracking or reading about track performance. I doubt that more than 30% track their cars; it is difficult to assess since some visit the site to read about the issue or other fellow members.

At any of our national NSXPO events, there is always a track component that compliments the social. I would venture to guess that about 30-40% of those attending the track are newbies whereas the rest are more frequent trackers.

Most of us who are track addicts - the core posters on this forum (i.e., about 10-15 track events a year), and yes there are probably two dozen, and some in transition due family growth with babies - have already moved up from 3 point harness to 5/6 points and there has been an interesting discussion on 5/6 points for an NSX with or without Hans ....... I think your focus ought to be on the track addicts - and my guess is only 5% are using Hans, as well as those doing HPDE at least 3-5 a year.

And some of us are instructors with several track organizers. As instructors, we can set the example and we do occasionally become successful in influencing behavior :wink:

HTH.
 
Reason being, we will be considering releasing a system next year, after testing it of course, that will make the defNder compatible with 3-point safety belt sytems as in standard road cars.

Hence the question, so thanks for the feedback.
 
Re: Takin it to the streets

compatible with 3-point safety belt sytems as in standard road cars
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Eureka.........do that and you've hit the motherlode and will spend the next 2 years filling orders nonstop from guys in daily drivers/garage queens. But I'm sure you knew that already.

As for racers; there's a bunch of us formula car guys on Apexspeed.com. In fact we've been kicking your device around (the idea anyway) over there. Howard Bennett/HANS checks in there and Gregg Baker/Isaac used to until he got a little argumentative and was asked to leave.

Trackpedia would love to hear from you as well. Edit: Oh, I see you're already there.
 
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