Got HOME THEATER?

[Joel]

Originally posted by bill92nsx:
Joel I was looking into those front projectors and very curious into buying one. How does it work? What do you have to hook it up to? I was going to get a plasma screen but have heard lots a bad feedback on them. Everyone told me front projector is the way to go. Is the screen size adjustable? i have a great setup right now but its missing a bit on the tv side of things. Right now I have the phillips 16:9 widescreen which is great but looks a little puny after a while, color is great though. I have bose set up and it sounds great.

Bill,

To put it quite simply, a digital projector is a television without a tuner. It's main purpose is to project whatever you plug into it. Since it is digital, you can hook up digital sources such as a dvd player, satellite television (love those HD!), and it can even serve as your computer monitor. You can also hood up a VCR but the picture is not that great but it will do. In fact I hooked up my VCR because it has a tuner and that's the way I watch regular television (don't wanna spend more $$$$ for monthly payments on satellite. Will do in the future though. It's nice to have that option).

The screen is definitely adjustable. I can go from as small as a regular tube television size of 36-inches to a whopping 200-inches max! But you are limited to the size of screen you choose. Right now, I have a screen of 8ft X 4ft wide. Projecting from the other side of the room of 19 feet away, it's perfect at the smallest setting.

Plasma televisions are nice but WAY too overpriced right now. Plus did you know that Plasma TV's have a shelf life? I heard around 10 or so years the gases need to be replaced inside. I'm not an expert on plasmas though so take that insight with a grain of salt.

Anyways for those interested in getting started into the world of front projector home theaters, here's the simple rundown of what I learned from my own personal experience:

Pros:
- incomparable "home theater" experience
- HUGE television (SuperBowl takes on a whole new experience!)
- compact and transportable (my projector is measured 16"x16"x6" and weighs 5 pounds!)
- doesn't take up ANY space. Set it on top of your coffee table and you're good to go!
- it's digital. (High Def ready television)

Cons:
- can be more expensive than a regular tv BUT not extremely out of reach. Decent ones go from $3-5k (definitely not like Plasmas)
- need to buy/make your own screen. You can project onto a wall but the pic washes out as soon as you turn on the lights
- need to have TOTAL control of the surrounding lighting conditions (dark curtains to block out the sun will do). Unless you have the Stewart Firehawk screen (the best screen in the market right now that actually rejects ambient lighting and project a very good picture: $1200! ouch) the lights in the living room are going to wash out the pic.

The best place to have a home theater is in the basement. Out in the east coast, that's fine and dandy but out here in L.A.?! Basements are about as common as earthquakes in NY.

The best place in the net to start your research on front projectors is in www.avsforum.com where I lurked around for a few months absorbing info from the experts about this field and eventually pulled the trigger to get my own setup.

Good luck and hope this helps whet your appetite!

 

[Joel]

Originally posted by NetViper:
I have:

Joel, What kind of font projector did you get? To get something decent, it looked like it woudl cost me about 8K. I want a DLP unit. I don't care for the old LCD's.

NetViper,

I got a DLP (which stands for Digital Light Processing) projector because Texas Instruments specifically geared this projector technology for the home theater enthusiasts. The LCD's (liquid crystal displays) didn't seem to fly too well with the enthusiasts because the picture didn't seem to emit the "film-like" quality.

There's an ongoing battle between DLP vs. LCD in the home theater world right now that is similar to the "NSX vs Corvette" debates. I went with the DLP because, like the NSX, the performance and the pic quality is MUCH more refined than an LCD. LCD's IMO are geared more for making presentation for business and the like. Oh and by the way, should I mention the George Lucas chose DLP projection to present his Star Wars: Attack of the Clones movie in digital theaters?! If you would remember, at the start of that movie, a big DLP logo was presented before it showed the 20th century fox logo--well I noticed anyway. So I guess that means he MUST know something about picture quality if he chose DLP over LCD, huh (granted the projector in the theater was worth over $150,000 but hey, if you can get the cheaper version for $5k, why not)?!

Just thought I'd mention that (I just like to justify my purchase choice, heh heh)!

Anyways...going DLP is definitely the right step in the right direction. I got the Studio Experience Cinema 12SF and this puppy rocks! It was rated one of the top 5 projectors in the market right now.

Do your research because there is a LOT of information I left out and you would want to know them before you make an educated decision.

Just to throw out some DLP projectors I researched:

Plus Piano = $3,000 msrp
Cinema 12SF = $5,000 msrp
Sharp Z9000 = $8,000 msrp

Notice these are msrp's meaning you can fine them cheaper somewhere. I know I did.

Oh also, of all the features different projectors have these 3 are the most important ones you would want to consider:

1. Brightness (at least 1000 lumens)
2. Contrast ratio (at least 600 lumens)
3. Zoom control (it helps, trust me! If it doesn't have this, you have to PHYSICALLY move the projector itself to make the picture fit the screen).

Good luck and any more questions, feel free to ask. I'm here for you.

 

[Joel]

Originally posted by Edwardo:
Joel,

Ahem...pictures? Hehe. Seriously though, could you perhaps show us a shot of a movie when you have the screen at a good resolution and size. Thanks.

ARRGGHH! I knew someone would ask this question. Alas, I have no digital camera or a scanner to take it with.

Now, if anyone NEAR me would want to come by and take a picture of it with their nice camera and post it up for me in this forum, I'll be more than happy to show it to you.

Let me know.

 

[Michigan NSX]

OK, time for me to chime in with my system:

Sony 36" TV ISF Calibrated
Meridian 565 Surround Processor
Meridian 562 Digital AV Preamp
Meridian 519 AC-3 Demodulator/Anti Jitter device
Pioneer CLD-D704 LaserDisc Player
Sony DVP-C650D 5 Disc DVD/CD Changer
Sony HiFi VCR
Sony Playstation
RCA DSS System
Acurus A250 Amplifier (Front Channels)
Marantz MA-500 THX Mono Amplifers (Center, Left Surround, Right Surround)
NHT 2.9 4-way Tower Speakers (Front)
NHT 1.5 Surround Speakers
NHT AudioCenter One Center Speaker
Velodyne F1800mkII 18" 600 watt Subwoofer
Sennheiser HD535 Headphones
Monster, Canare, Straightwire, Cardas interconnects.
Marantz RC-5000 Touchscreen Remote
Lutron Spacer Remote Controlled Lighting System

Total RETAIL of the above is approx. $19.5k

*disclaimer* I am "in the industry" as I am an Audio Video System designer for a High End Home Theater company.


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'91 Black/Black

[This message has been edited by Michigan NSX (edited 10 September 2002).]

 

[caz-nsx]

Originally posted by len3.8:

Is that a carver sub in the right corner of the first pic?

It is actually the Mirage (Substrata)version. 1500watt just like the Sunfire. I tested both and they sounded about the same. I went with the Mirage because I was using them all around.

 

[Yellow Rose]

Here is how not-with-it I am.

Sony 27" TV that's over ten years old and a VCR. Period. Well, last year, I *did* get a dish. "Ououououhhh, Andy you are so current. Say, I bet you drive a decade-old design, little two-seater Honda."

Fang / Michigan - I might ping you for some input later.

 

[akira3d]

Being a technology freak, gamer, game developer, and not to mention a film nut who actually was nutty enough to study film production at USC's School of Cinema Television, you'd think that I, of all people, would have an amazing home theater.

I most certainly do...in my dreams.

I do have strong opinions about movie presentation. First and foremost, I firmly believe that one must see movies on the big screen (with an audience) to fully appreciate them. But, with the ticket prices as ridiculous as they've become, even tend to see more films first on DVD than I do on the silver screen.

So, I have what I consider an "adequate" but by no means high-end home theater system:

-Panasonic 32" TV (bought before I could afford flat direct tubes)
-Panasonic A300 DVD Player (first generation player with Dolby Digital decoder built-in)
-Technics THX Certified Home Theater System (SA-TX50 receiver if I remember correctly) and the associated speakers
-speakers wired via Monster Cable
-Sony SLV-700HF Hi-fi VCR
-Sony PlayStation 2
-Nintendo GameCube

Of course, I have many friends who drool over my setup. Movies like The Matrix and Saving Private Ryan really rock the house with thunderous clarity when I crank the system up to reference level. I blew a subwoofer when I first put T2 on for my friends (thankfully that sub had a factory defect that was repared under warranty). And I do have to say that my system sounds better than many of the movie theaters I go to (which is probably why I don't go to movies as much as I used to).

The negatives of my setup are:

-My living room
(TV is at a 30 degree angle from where I typically sit, surround speakers are aligned with the sofa and NOT the TV, can't control the light sufficiently to reduce glare during much of the day)
-TV is NOT a flat screen (compounding the glare problem)
-No DTS decoding capability
-No Dolby Digital EX support
-TV stand gets awfully hot after a couple of hours of use (both the receiver and the DVD player generate tons of heat)
-No component video support (thank gawd I at least have everything hooked up via S-Video)
-No HDTV capability
-No progressive scan
-No multi-disc player
-No MP3 support
-Somewhat small viewing area for letterboxed films (okay, I only started complaining about this when we got the widescreen plasma flat panel display at work)

I refuse to upgrade my TV until HDTV becomes more widespread. Replacing any component in my home theater will require me to replace many components since the DD decoder is in my DVD player and my receiver is merely DD-ready).

Personally, I have yet to see a rear-projection system that meets with my approval. Projectors aren't an option due to the layout of my living room and the lack of light control. In fact, I'd also have no place to hang a flat panel plasma display (plus I'm not terribly happy with their relatively short lifespan).

My next home MUST have a room appropriate for a true home theater. Of course, it also must have a minimum four car garage. If only I could afford something like that and still live near the coast in SoCal. I guess that my dreams didn't end with the NSX!

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--akira3D
'00 Acura NSX-T (red/black), '97 Honda Civic HX (black), '01 Lexus IS300 (black/black)
"Reality is better than the dream..."

akira3d.com/nsx

[This message has been edited by akira3d (edited 09 September 2002).]

 

[ilya]

NSX-00054 and Michigan NSX,
Those are some killer setups you guys have! Martin Logans and Krell were next on my list before I sold it all for the kid. Good stuff.

My poor departed system

B&W Matrix Series Mains & Center
B&W CDM7 Rears
Rotel 250W per channel AMP
Rotel PreAmp (I forget the model)
Rotel CD Player
Bag End Pro 18 inch Sub (yeahh.. baby... yeah)

Audioquest Interconnects

With all the odds and ends it was just over 10K with some deals I found. I had a special spot on the couch for guests called the pisser. It's so I wouldn't have to sit in the spot where they peed or crapped their pants during any demos.

I had a vase fall off the bed and onto the next door neighbor's head once during a viewing of U-571. When that sub went up, all small creatures and local pets ran for cover.
Damn I miss my system.

[This message has been edited by ilya (edited 09 September 2002).]

 

[fangtl]

Originally posted by Number9:
I don't understand this remark. Whether 2-channel stereo vs. whatever.1 home theatre, the whole point is reproduction accuracy, i.e., you need that in both applications and only good speakers will provide that. The distortion levels introduced by electronics is dwarfed by the distortion introduced by the audio transducers, aka speakers.

The home theatre experience is different from the musical experience. There are no if or buts about it. When I sit in my listening room, I am not there to watch a movie, I am there to listen to music, and frankly, I need a "musical speaker" rather than a HT speaker. I am sure you'll agree your NHTs sound a lot different when you use them to watch a movie than when you use them for musical reproduction.

Never skimp on speakers, whether in home theatre or hifi. And if you think that means spending too much money, that's wrong. I've got a nad receiver driving NHT super-zeros for the mid-hi and a powered sunfire for lows in my office and it'll put a lot of audiophile systems to shame. Of course, I opted for better stuff at home...

The majority of people who buy "hi-fi" systems DO NOT have to spend a lot of money for a system that they believe sound good, that's what I was trying to emphasize. Why? Because the majority of people can't tell your Super Zeros from my Red Roses.

However, my customers may have to spend a lot of money for a system that I believe sounds good. Luckily for them, most of my customer couldn't care less what I think. If they can't perceive the difference between the Super Zeros (a very musical speaker often used in HTs) and my Red Roses (a true musical speaker), they are often bright enough to save a few thousand dollars & buy the NHTs. Each person's perception of what sounds good is different, ever wonder how Bose sold all those Waveamajunk Radios? -and- don't say marketing.

BTW, I also use NHT Super Zeros, they used to be part of my listening room for awhile; they are now my rear speakers in my home theatre. Quality speakers for the money, although they leave a lot to be desired, and I am sure you'll agree.

Andy: Feel free to email me if you have any questions or want input on certain components.

 

[Joel]

Here's a picture of Collins' HT set-up that looks very similar to mine:

"Gladiator"

"Star Wars: Episode 1"

"Shrek" Animation

"Toy Story 2" Animation

Set-up with the room lights on


**Pictures above provided by: www.myhometheater.homestead.com

[This message has been edited by Joel (edited 10 September 2002).]

[This message has been edited by Joel (edited 10 September 2002).]

 

[Yawwn]

I bought all this stuff many years ago, and after reading what you all have, I think it's time to upgrade. I am planning on building a house of my own design, and the first thing I made sure that was in the floorplans was a dedicated home theatre room. I may need to contact some of you about info for making sure the integration of a new system runs smoothly when they start building the home (wiring, placement, insulation, etc.)

Mitsubishi 60" Rear Projection
Boston Acoustics THX-certified speakers (left, right, center, dipolar rears, and two 12" subs)
Onkyo TX-SV919 THX-certified receiver
Onkyo ED-901 Dolby Digital decoder/processor
Pioneer DVL-900 MultiPlayer (DVD, Laserdisc, etc.)
Sony VCR
Sony DSS with Dolby Digital
Sony ES CD changer
Pioneer 6 cassette changer
Karaoke mixer

I am looking into DLP projectors as well. What do you all think of putting theatre seats into the room... the kind that you find at your local cineplex? I don't know how comfortable those connected chairs are. Plus some of them don't lean back. However, it will allow for an air of authenticity when watching a movie. I plan on creating platforms that raise the seats so that it will be a stadium seating configuration; perhaps 6 seats across and 3 rows. In addition, do you think those egg crate walls would be suitable? Perhaps carpeted walls will be more asthetically pleasing. I do not intend to have any windows in this room, and it will be created above the 3 car garage, so isolation of sound will be important.

If I do all this, I plan to sell my equipment. Anyone interested in buying any or all?
This will be within the next year or two.

Take Care,
J.

[This message has been edited by Yawwn (edited 10 September 2002).]

 

[ilya]

Good luck on your upcoming project. Sounds like it will be pretty awesome.

I would put all the money necessary into the audio and visual first. IMO, spend the 20K on a truly killer system, then use what is left for the seating and such. Use a large screen and a projector. If you are truly serious about the acoustics of the room, hire a pro when building. You do not want a square room, nor do you want one with a flat ceiling. Angled or vaulted ceilings in conjunction with a room that opens into other areas is ideal. You do not want a standard rectangular room with low or flat ceilings. You will end up spending a lot of money paying a pro to hang crap all over the room to keep the sound waves from bouncing all over the walls.

Start from the ground up. Design the proper shape before building. It makes a HUGE difference. Nothing spectacular. An odd shape and higher, angled ceilings are fine. A pro can help out.

Second, put your funds into sound and video. Nothing beats a projected screen with a killer 10-15K Hi-Fi setup. IMO, the rest should be a secondary concern. You can always deal with couches and seating later. The seating position is KEY to the sound of the system. DO NOT lock yourself into a scertina spot in the room until WAY, WAY AFTER everything else is in place and you have found the best seating location in your new room. Different speakers and different setups will have differing sweet spots.

GOOD LUCK and HAVE FUN!

 

[Joel]

Yawwn,

I highly suggest you sign up for membership at www.avsforum.com

You will find ALL the answers to your audio/video/construction/screen questions you may have from other members. Actually, more than you would care for.

 

[Yawwn]

Thanks Ilya and Joel!
I appreciate your feedback. I do recall that the room should be asymmetrical, to prevent standing waves. I will definitely make sure to keep this in mind when drawing up the plans.
In addition, I have a good friend who used to work at a home theatre place (db Audio, for those who are familiar with the Berkeley area. Unfortunately, it closed down some time ago) who will help me with design. However, I will sign up with avsforum.

Once it's all done, I'll invite anyone from NSXPrime to stop by and enjoy a flick with my (future) wife and I.

Take Care,
J.

 

[Michigan NSX]

Originally posted by ilya:
...I would put all the money necessary into the audio and visual first...

I agree with almost everything thing that Ilya says, except I would like to modify his above quote to Once you get the room established properly...

The single most important component in ANY hifi set up (stereo or home theater) is THE ROOM! I have heard $10,000.00 speakers sound bad in a bad room and $900.00 speakers sound wonderful in a properly designed room. If you are SERIOUS about your home theater I would definitely hire a CEDIA (Custom Electronics Design and Intallation Association) certified installer to help design/install your system.

Home Theater is a lot like owning an NSX. You can treat it as a commodity and still get a measure of satisfaction from it or you can treat it like a hobby and reap the commensurate rewards. Have Fun With Your Project!!

P.S. For a serious dedicated Home Theater, front projection is the only way to go.

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'91 Black/Black

 

[Yawwn]

Thank you for your advice Michigan! I had considered consulting with a CEDIA associate, and it looks like this is the way to go. I'll keep you all updated if you wish.
I definitely plan to do front projection, perhaps DLP.

Take Care,
J.

 

[Joel]

Perhaps?

You're not thinking of going LCD are you?

 

[Michigan NSX]

Maybe he's thinking of going CRT. Still the best picture (but more expensive and much more labor intensive to set-up and maintain).

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'91 Black/Black

 

[Yawwn]

I thought about LCD and CRT, but from what the people at the hi-fi stores have unanimously stated, it looks like DLP is the way to go. The reasons that you listed Michigan are the same reasons they provided. I was told the LCD does not reproduce colors as accurately, and the pixels tend to look larger. In addition, I believe that DLP is much smaller, and thus less obtrusive in the room.
What do you think about having a ceiling fan inside the room? Would that be a crazy idea? I plan to have 3 rows of 6 theatre seats inside, and figured that this would create quite a bit of heat. I will have air-conditioning, but it would be nice to be able to just control the temperature in the room, and not the whole house.

 

[Michigan NSX]

Originally posted by Yawwn:
...What do you think about having a ceiling fan inside the room? ...I will have air-conditioning, but it would be nice to be able to just control the temperature in the room, and not the whole house.

If this is a dedicated room, have your HVAC contractor run a separate zone for the Theater. Theaters generate a LOT of heat (Projectors, amplifiers, humans, in a generally enclosed space, etc...). There are special ways to run AC to minimize noise in the theater.

The way front projectors are normally mounted is on the ceiling. If you use a fan make sure it is clear of the projector and will not interfere with the picture. You may want to be able to adjust either the AC or the ceiling fan via IR control so look for models that will allow you to do this. Also do NOT put the ceiling fan or the AC compressor on the same circuit as the projector (which should have it's own dedicated power circuit). Feel free to private me with any questions.


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'91 Black/Black

[This message has been edited by Michigan NSX (edited 12 September 2002).]

 

[Michigan NSX]

The above post is what I meant by "Getting the room right" There are many thing to consider for an optimized dedicated theater: Sightlines, traffic patterns, aisleways, projector distances, screen size, seating distance from screen, spaces between seats, elevation changes between rows of seats (stadium seating), lighting design (a whole topic in itself), lighting control, equipment storage, software storage, user interface (Touchscreen Remote), Electrical and AV wiring paths, sound absorption, room colors, wall treatments and proper colors, etc... As you can see, there is a lot going on in a dedicated theater room. If you are just going to "plop" some equipment in a multipurpose room, there is another whole list of considerations.

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'91 Black/Black

[This message has been edited by Michigan NSX (edited 12 September 2002).]

 

[Yawwn]

Hi Michigan,
Thanks for the information! I agree that there are tons of things to consider for this room, as well as the rest of the house. Imagine having to deal with all the details of the kitchen, bathrooms, garages, and rooms, in addition to all the items that you described above. Sometimes it's so overwhelming, my head starts spinning like a top. That's why I figure that I should get professional consulting of this room. This way, I have more time to concentrate on other aspects of the house, and also to get the room done right the first time around. I'm still in the design phase of the house, so nothing is set in stone.
I plan to make risers so that the second and third rows will be progressively higher to clear the heads of the row in front (I guess it's referred to as stadium seating). I'm getting the theatre seats that are bolted to the floor, attached together, but divided by cup holders.In addition, the projector may be mounted a little over two-thirds the height of the room on the far wall from the screen. This hopefully will clear the peoples' heads, as well as a fan, if I decide to mount one.
I'm still deciding how and where to place the equipment. Should I have it in the rear of the room, nearby the bathroom below the projector, or in another room, or behind the motorized drop down screen? Should it be flush with the wall, or placed on a rack. I prefer having it flush. Again, questions for the consultant, but if you have any thoughts on the matter, it would be much appreciated.

Thanks!
J.

[This message has been edited by Yawwn (edited 12 September 2002).]

 

[Michigan NSX]

Yawwn,

Good questions. I will try to answer them tonight or tomorrow when I can get to my home computer (I'm actually answering this using the computer at work - the one I design HOME THEATERS on

)

Again, if you have specific questions feel free to private me. My E-Mail address is under my user profile for NSXPrime.

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'91 Black/Black

 

[Joel]

You're right about the CRT's. Just the thought of having to recalibrate and realign it every so often is such a pain.
Plus, those things are HUGE! Some up to 100+ lbs!

 

[Michigan NSX]

CRTs are the worst projectors out there except for in one category where they are the best - picture quality. But DLP and LCD are getting better and many already surpass the less expensive CRT. When I upgrade my theater from a 36" Sony Tube it will be to a DLP Projector.

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'91 Black/Black