F430 Scuderia

[R77F1]

True about the performance aspect but the Enzo will turn heads over the 430 still. I don't care about the performance really......you can't drive like that in LA. The Enzo just says bowdown when you see it. :biggrin:

Agreed, I'd take Enzo over it!

 

[NSXGMS]

MVM - Ditto! This is what I'm saying. I love the Ferrari 430 CS and I'd take it in a heartbeat (my wife even said "let's buy it.." without knowing the price..) -I told her anything is possible, if she was willing to work hard for it.. :biggrin:

But - like I said, dyno walks, and guess what, I found a few!
Assuming 15% drivetrain loss...

http://tinyurl.com/2m77jc (~400 RWHP / .85 = 470 HP)
http://tinyurl.com/2zvkvv (~425 RWHP / .85 = 500 HP; Not sure what mods..)
http://tinyurl.com/2uxbvr ( hard to see, but 392 RWHP "stock" & 405 "modified" with i/e; 461 & 476 HP respectively)

So there you have it - Scientific data. Seems the 430 is producing between 460 & 480 HP crank hp, but it's the RWHP what matters anyway, regardless if it's 12/15/20/50% loss. The more loss, the greater the shame on the manfucturer imho.

In any case - the 430 seems to be making about 140 RWHP more than a NA2 stock (~260 vs ~400 HP..) so that should still make us feel pretty good!

I'm making 375 RWHP with Comptech. Now I have a motiviation to invest & make 400 RWHP so I can say I'm making the same power with "a Honda V6", but lighter

Most cars have at least a 15% drivetrain loss. The NSX is particularly efficient at putting power to the ground. 15% drivetrain loss is nothing to be ashamed of but IMHO Ferrari could and should do better...

All manufacturers claim crank hp. My point was simply that the F430 is one of the only Ferraris not to have PR inflated hp numbers--at the crank or wheels. I'd assume the 503 bhp claim for the 430 S is probably accurate as well meaning the dynos should reflect 420-440 whp. However at under 3000 lbs and considering all the technology in it that is still quite impressive.

Getting the NSX to 400+ whp is relatively easy (thanks in part to it's low drivetrain losses) and it shows how the NSX can still be competitive even in today's supercar climate.

 

[ediddynsx]

Agreed, I'd take Enzo over it!

Yup you see what I am talking about too :wink:

I want a black one with black wheels.....that would looks so mean! :biggrin:

Hey we can dream right? :tongue:

 

[drivingnirvana]

Yup you see what I am talking about too :wink:

I want a black one with black wheels.....that would looks so mean! :biggrin:

Hey we can dream right? :tongue:

I want a black 430 Scuderia with red interior.

 

[NSXFRIEND]

Hmm I guess that's why the 355 and 360 have basically the same performance even though the 360 is rated higher.

Significant difference between the two cars. 360 27% lighter chassis, total weight 70lbs lighter. Rev limiter 8500 355 8250 20% more Torque below 4k, 375hp 355 400hp for 360.

0-60 4.2-4.6 360
0-60 4.7-4.9 355
0-100 9.8 360
0-100 10.8 355
1/4 12.3-.5 360
1/4 12.7-.9 355
top 360 186
top 355 179-80

http://www.autozine.org/Graveyard/html/Ferrari/360.html

I will take one of these over the enzo even though the Enzo is faster

 

[TC]

But it seems that nowadays, manufacturers stay closer to the actual numbers because more people seem to be dynoeing their car.

Also, as of 2006, IIRC, HP figures for all cars sold in the US must be obtained using a standard SAE method, to eliminate variability from manufacturer to manufacturer. The 2006 NSX, RL and TL all "lost" HP over the 2005 models due solely to the standardized testing method. The official HP, as spec'ed by Acura, for the 2006 NSX officially was 280, not 290. Other companies also had similar issues - Mazda and Ford come to mind. The Z06 actually gained 5 HP using the SAE method.

2006 and beyond cars are probably spot-on in terms of their HP rating - if you were to yank the engine and put it on an engine dyno.

 

[nsxotic911]

Significant difference between the two cars. 360 27% lighter chassis, total weight 70lbs lighter. Rev limiter 8500 355 8250 20% more Torque below 4k, 375hp 355 400hp for 360.

0-60 4.2-4.6 360
0-60 4.7-4.9 355
0-100 9.8 360
0-100 10.8 355
1/4 12.3-.5 360
1/4 12.7-.9 355
top 360 186
top 355 179-80

http://www.autozine.org/Graveyard/html/Ferrari/360.html

I will take one of these over the enzo even though the Enzo is faster

The F50 is such a bad ass vehicle, I don't know where to start. I think I'd have a F50 over the F430 CS as well, probably even more exclusive. I've never seen a F50 on the streets - I've seen a number of F430's though.. more than NSX's (well not really, but we can pretend..)

 

[drivingnirvana]

The first Super car I fell in love with was the F50. I wasn't a gear head but bought a magazine with a F50 article when I was around 12-13. I used to go through those pages so much the pages got worn out. I absolutely loved it. It put my pants on fire like no Skyline GT-R, Evo, 911, Lotus or V8 mid-engine Ferrari could. Lost some feelings for it after a while but it's still one of the big super stars to me personally.

Isn't the F50 the most exclusive super Ferrari? 350 made, 399 Enzos and 1300+ F40s...



Man I gotta go find that mag again.......

 

[NSXFRIEND]

Yeh the F50 is detuned version of the actual formula one engine. In terms of exclusivity and rareness there are alot other ferraris out there but the 288gto turbo version is one of the exclusive and even in its normal version it commands alot of money such this example. The whole body weights 250lbs in the F50.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330193507718

http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90445

Or turbo F50

http://www.romansinternational.co.uk/car.asp?id=626

according to one Fchatter

Many reasons really:
- the first 200mph roadcar
- the first all carbon/kevlar road car
- uncompromising on weight, power, and driving experience
- the first car to truly translate Ferrari's racing expertise into a roadcar (excluding the 250 GTO!).

Personally, I am a big fan of the F50:
- genuine F1 approach to a roadcar with race-derived V12 and gearbox bolted directly onto the carbon tub
- great with the targa top off
- more driveable than the F40
- better quality than the F40.

The F40 was an instant hit, whereas the F50 was "misunderstood" - very few were allowed to be driven by journalists so they slated it!

Just my thoughts, not gospel!!

 

[ediddynsx]

I want a black 430 Scuderia with red interior.

Yup I wouldnt say no to that either.......:biggrin:

 

[NSXGMS]

Yeh the F50 is detuned version of the actual formula one engine...

Ehhh, I believe that's a very misleading statement that is mostly used for hype. That engine made several stops before the F50 and to say that the 4.7L V-12 has that much in common with the 3.5L V-12 in the F92 is stetching it a little too far. An F1 engine, detuned or not, has very little in common with any road-going engine.

The configuration and the basic design may have been the basic starting point for the engine but I find it very difficult to believe that an actual F1 block was used. In the first place, I doubt the actual F1 block could be bored out as much as 1 additional liter.

To say that it came from the 333 SP would be more accurate and even that was a completely reworked version of the F92. I think the engine served more as an inspiration than a base.

 

[NSXFRIEND]

Ehhh, I believe that's a very misleading statement that is mostly used for hype. That engine made several stops before the F50 and to say that the 4.7L V-12 has that much in common with the 3.5L V-12 in the F92 is stetching it a little too far. An F1 engine, detuned or not, has very little in common with any road-going engine.

The configuration and the basic design may have been the basic starting point for the engine but I find it very difficult to believe that an actual F1 block was used. In the first place, I doubt the actual F1 block could be bored out as much as 1 additional liter.

To say that it came from the 333 SP would be more accurate and even that was a completely reworked version of the F92. I think the engine served more as an inspiration than a base.

The Ferrari 333 SP was a sports prototype car built by Michelotto(ownerMomo)/Dallara for Ferrari.

Tipo F130, model SFE 4.7 VJGAEA used in the F50 4700cc V-12 used the 1990F1 car’s block. It employed a similar design for the heads and crankshaft; this made the latter items easier to manufacture. Everything else was new so the engine could meet emissions laws and be drivable on the street. At 513 horsepower, the Ferrari F50 was Ferrari’s most-powerful road car ever.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/ferrari-f50.htm

Racing regulatios at the time stated that the engines were to displace no more than four liters and were to be derived from a road going car. Ferrari chose the V12 engine that was to power their upcoming F50 car. The engine was used in their F1 program, where it displaced 3.5-liters. The F50 had a 4.7-liter dispalcement size and the F333 was given a 4-liter size. The name of the vehicle was in direct correlation to the engine's unitary displacement of 333 cc. This was a naming style dating back to the company's inception.

http://www.conceptcarz.com/vehicle/z8047/default.aspx

Marketed through the Ferrari lease/owner program to selected individuals as a Detuned Formula one engine/car for the street.

http://www.ferrariusa.com/

One for sale $895k

http://www.ferrariusa.com/detail?te...rr=USD&odounit=miles&vids=13170718&vidindex=0