Maybe this has been posted before.. but check this out:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...l=5&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0
http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...l=5&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0
F430 Scuderia
- Thread starter nsxotic911
- Start date
Comparable performance.. at 1/2, 1/3 (?) the cost. I think te F430 is much better looking, through the Enzo looks like a exotic Jet on wheels..
My new favorite car! Wow!!
True about the performance aspect but the Enzo will turn heads over the 430 still. I don't care about the performance really......you can't drive like that in LA. The Enzo just says bowdown when you see it. :biggrin:
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- 27 September 2007
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430 Scuderia, not F430 Scuderia. A friend was at the launch a short while ago and this little angry italian dudes screams "No, no!! It isa 430 Scuderia... Nota F430 Scuderia. Okey a?" so I guess that's important to them.
+1
The Enzo never quite did it for me. Looks-wise I'd take the F50 (or even the F40) over it any day.
At this point the Scuderia has much more technology than the Enzo anyways. I can't imagine how much more the Enzo would be to service than the Scuderia...
+1
The Enzo never quite did it for me. Looks-wise I'd take the F50 (or even the F40) over it any day.
At this point the Scuderia has much more technology than the Enzo anyways. I can't imagine how much more the Enzo would be to service than the Scuderia...
can't remember where i heard it, but i heard that the enzo's first major service is @ 6kmi - 30,000 bucks
Finally some one built an engine with out put per liter higher than the AP1 S2k.
Thats impressive!!!
Thats impressive!!!
Uh isn't the Scuderia a 4.3L engine with 503 hp? If that's the case it makes 116.967 hp per liter. AP1 makes 120 hp per liter.
I'll believe it when I see a dyno. 85% of 503 is 427 RWHP. Ferrari is known to "massage" the numbers.
The 503 is crank hp. Just like the NSX's 270. Most dynos I've seen have shown the F430 to be very accurate as far as the stated 480 hp at the crank assuming reasonable drivetrain losses. Ferrari apparently has chosen not to "massage" their numbers recently but they no doubt did so in the past.
Where is the crank HP dyno? I'm sure it's manufacturer secret. A RWHP dyno tells the real story...
How are you going to measure the NSX's claimed 270?
What are you talking about? I don't see anyone getting on Honda's case stating 270 hp. Ferrari has a perfect right to state 480/503 if the whp numbers (adjusted for a reasonable drivetrain loss) support it. Since most of the F430 dynos I've seen are in the 410-420 whp range assuming a ~15% drivetrain loss that equals about 470-480 at the crank. The reality is that it appears as though Ferrari has not overstated their numbers this time, at least not with the F430.
How are you going to measure the NSX's claimed 270?
The reality is that it appears as though Ferrari has not overstated their numbers this time, at least not with the F430.
Most dynos show that the NSX has at least 270/290 HP.
You can find dynos of NSXs with 220<->250 for NA RWHP on NA1s, and 240-260-even 270 RWHP for NA2. (with some mods..)
This translates to roughly 270 & 290 crnak hp; 270*.85 = 230. 290*.85 = 246.
I'm not calling Ferrari a liar, I'd just like to see the dynos that reflect the assertion. A dyno of 410 RWHP would support that assertion. Do you have one to provide?
Hmm I guess that's why the 355 and 360 have basically the same performance even though the 360 is rated higher.
Fifth Gear said the car has 510 hp? Unless I'm hearing different thing... At that rate, it's slightly less than 119hp per liter.
I guess Honda still has the upper hand.
I guess Honda still has the upper hand.
You'd think so, eh? Yet somehow, Ferrari is building stuff like the F430 and Honda is building Civics....
No, Honda is building S2000's that originally (like my 2001) had 120 hp/liter :wink:
The 270 HP for the NA1 NSX and 290 HP for the NA2 NSX are the numbers for the engine at the crank (in the US).
I believe it has become quite the accepted norm that the NSX will loose about 12% in drivetrain losses as measured on a Dynojet.
So, typically, a stock NA1 NSX will have around 238 RWHP and a NA2 NSX around 255 RWHP.
The older Ferrari's like the 348, 355 and 360 have either much more drivetrain losses AND/OR exaggerated HP claims.
I remember that the F355 with a claimed 380 HP usually has around 300 RWHP on a Dynoject. A 360 Modena with 400 HP claimed usually does around 320 RWHP on a Dynojet.
So, either the Ferrari's loose about 20% or their numbers are inflated.
But it seems that nowadays, manufacturers stay closer to the actual numbers because more people seem to be dynoeing their car.
MVM - Ditto! This is what I'm saying. I love the Ferrari 430 CS and I'd take it in a heartbeat (my wife even said "let's buy it.." without knowing the price..) -I told her anything is possible, if she was willing to work hard for it.. :biggrin:
But - like I said, dyno walks, and guess what, I found a few!
Assuming 15% drivetrain loss...
http://tinyurl.com/2m77jc (~400 RWHP / .85 = 470 HP)
http://tinyurl.com/2zvkvv (~425 RWHP / .85 = 500 HP; Not sure what mods..)
http://tinyurl.com/2uxbvr ( hard to see, but 392 RWHP "stock" & 405 "modified" with i/e; 461 & 476 HP respectively)
So there you have it - Scientific data. Seems the 430 is producing between 460 & 480 HP crank hp, but it's the RWHP what matters anyway, regardless if it's 12/15/20/50% loss. The more loss, the greater the shame on the manfucturer imho.
In any case - the 430 seems to be making about 140 RWHP more than a NA2 stock (~260 vs ~400 HP..) so that should still make us feel pretty good!
I'm making 375 RWHP with Comptech. Now I have a motiviation to invest & make 400 RWHP so I can say I'm making the same power with "a Honda V6", but lighter
But - like I said, dyno walks, and guess what, I found a few!
Assuming 15% drivetrain loss...
http://tinyurl.com/2m77jc (~400 RWHP / .85 = 470 HP)
http://tinyurl.com/2zvkvv (~425 RWHP / .85 = 500 HP; Not sure what mods..)
http://tinyurl.com/2uxbvr ( hard to see, but 392 RWHP "stock" & 405 "modified" with i/e; 461 & 476 HP respectively)
So there you have it - Scientific data. Seems the 430 is producing between 460 & 480 HP crank hp, but it's the RWHP what matters anyway, regardless if it's 12/15/20/50% loss. The more loss, the greater the shame on the manfucturer imho.
In any case - the 430 seems to be making about 140 RWHP more than a NA2 stock (~260 vs ~400 HP..) so that should still make us feel pretty good!
I'm making 375 RWHP with Comptech. Now I have a motiviation to invest & make 400 RWHP so I can say I'm making the same power with "a Honda V6", but lighter
MVM - Ditto! This is what I'm saying. I love the Ferrari 430 CS and I'd take it in a heartbeat (my wife even said "let's buy it.." without knowing the price..) -I told her anything is possible, if she was willing to work hard for it.. :biggrin:
But - like I said, dyno walks, and guess what, I found a few!
Assuming 15% drivetrain loss...
http://tinyurl.com/2m77jc (~400 RWHP / .85 = 470 HP)
http://tinyurl.com/2zvkvv (~425 RWHP / .85 = 500 HP; Not sure what mods..)
http://tinyurl.com/2uxbvr ( hard to see, but 392 RWHP "stock" & 405 "modified" with i/e; 461 & 476 HP respectively)
So there you have it - Scientific data. Seems the 430 is producing between 460 & 480 HP crank hp, but it's the RWHP what matters anyway, regardless if it's 12/15/20/50% loss. The more loss, the greater the shame on the manfucturer imho.
In any case - the 430 seems to be making about 140 RWHP more than a NA2 stock (~260 vs ~400 HP..) so that should still make us feel pretty good!
I'm making 375 RWHP with Comptech. Now I have a motiviation to invest & make 400 RWHP so I can say I'm making the same power with "a Honda V6", but lighter
Better put your flame suit on. You just showed evidence that Honda knows how to put power down better Ferrari ( and that the mighty F cars are inflated :wink: ) so all the wanna be Ferrari owners here are going to rain hellfire down and you and say how not great and slow the NSX is ..LOL
what about motorcycles? 600s nowadays put out ~215 hp/L :smile:
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