F1 2009 megathread

[Hrant]

Re: Exactly.........

but why?

It should be quite obvious ..... among the many non-pc reasons, also think of the sponsorship companies' biggest bang and where those dollars have the biggest TV market and following and hence return on investment.

 

[92 white 0650]

Re: What else is obvious?

It should be quite obvious ..... among the many non-pc reasons, also think of the sponsorship companies' biggest bang and where those dollars have the biggest TV market and following and hence return on investment.

OK, so it's all about marketing...........I'll concede that point for now. Is it a slam dunk corollary to that marketing argument that those karting kids are just as good or better than anyone coming from US racing series? Because the marketers want the maximum exposure, they want their cars at the front driven by the best. And if that is the case, a logical small step from the marketing argument, the question remains........

but why?

are they the best?

 

[Jack Sparrow]

Re: What else is obvious?

OK, so it's all about marketing...........I'll concede that point for now. Is it a slam dunk corollary to that marketing argument that those karting kids are just as good or better than anyone coming from US racing series? Because the marketers want the maximum exposure, they want their cars at the front driven by the best. And if that is the case, a logical small step from the marketing argument, the question remains........
are they the best?

The euro kids are not the best but its the image that people have of Americans which keep American drivers down.

 

[92 white 0650]

Re: Let me see if I got at least 2 sides right.........

Ding, ding, ding..... Ladies and gentlemen.......... welcome to the main event of the Prime F-1 discrimination debate........

in the "it's B.S. and Image" corner, wearing the Red White and Blue trunks, Mr. Sparrow contends it's all about image and perfectly capable and talented American kids and US series drivers can't get a break

and in the "Marketing is king and righteous" corner, wearing the camoflauge trunks so no one knows where he's coming from next, Hrant contends that that the principles of marketing are infallible and that, until you see Pepsi or Budweiser or U.S. Army on an F-1 car, you won't see any respect for an American driver.

Did I get that right?

Gentlemen, touch gloves and come out debating.

 

[Jack Sparrow]

Re: Let me see if I got at least 2 sides right.........

Ding, ding, ding..... Ladies and gentlemen.......... welcome to the main event of the Prime F-1 discrimination debate........

in the "it's B.S. and Image" corner, wearing the Red White and Blue trunks, Mr. Sparrow contends it's all about image and perfectly capable and talented American kids and US series drivers can't get a break

and in the "Marketing is king and righteous" corner, wearing the camoflauge trunks so no one knows where he's coming from next, Hrant contends that that the principles of marketing are infallible and that, until you see Pepsi or Budweiser or U.S. Army on an F-1 car, you won't see any respect for an American driver.

Did I get that right?

Gentlemen, touch gloves and come out debating.

I lol'd.

 

[92 white 0650]

Re: "We are the Champions..........my friend"

Did I hear that Jensen is due to meet the Queen?

 

[JohnJW]

Does Jenson's dad have only ONE shirt???

Also I'm in anti Marco A. camp

I think Scotty Speed needs another go at it. Atleast a seat test????

 

[Jack Sparrow]

Word on the street is Branson/Virgin will not be sponsoring Brawn again next season since they aren't under-dogs anymore. Might be the Lotus team outta Malaysia.

 

[92 white 0650]

Re: Branson and silly season

It's a long running silly season, isn't it? Kinda like the Chase and other manipulations of schedule to keep fans watching til the bitter end. Branson's plans are all about rumor, "the deal" and most important, exposure and fit right in with silly season.

Mid year, it was a "done deal" he was going with Manor to the point of re-naming the team. When he was saying the Brawn price was going up by the race, he was implying he wouldn't want to pay a worthy price to Brawn; now from what I read, (this is a summary of other sites) the rumors are changed; he wants us to believe the Brawn deal is still possible???? Well, it's all working; we're still talking about Virgin just as much as Kimi; he likes that.

I don't know if he likes underdogs as much as cheap exposure. He's like the Michelin man or the Firestone clown standing behind the drivers during interviews.

My 2 cents. (I can hear Hrant warming up his keyboard now.)

 

[Hrant]

Re: Branson and silly season

My 2 cents. (I can hear Hrant warming up his keyboard now.)

Wow, after months of just skimming this thread bored since I couldn't find a hot feud or dissing out smack talk, I finally succumb to the hook Keeping up with the twists of this thread is becoming a nightmare :tongue:

Tedro, image and marketing are the two sides of the same coin. Without one you can't have the other to be effective. F1 is both image and sponsor dollars, ie marketing an entertainment product using motorsports and speed as the addiction. No different from NASCAR.

Just think, even if we grant that Scott Speed is a great driver, how do you market his image as the venue to promote a sponsor's product in Europe - the largest TV market for F1? How do you glamorize his roots from Stockton vs. someone from Monza or the Alps ...... or alternatively, how do you market Budweiser to Europeans who probably consider it to have less taste than their tap water!

Now with USF1 there is some great potential but it has to incubate and be nurtured. The sponsors and marketing could be target to mostly North America and start creating a brand/image with well heeled charismatic driver and sponsors who are looking to not only have more TV coverage in the US but also increase awareness of their products in Europe, Brazil, and perhaps even in the United Arab Emirates if they pass the censor's protocols of decency; no malfunctioning wardrobe please:biggrin: Appel, Pepsi might make the cut if they see the value, but heck, even Budweiser now is owned by a non-US conglomerate. Just like "the Michelin man or the Firestone clown standing behind the drivers during interviews" so does Sprint offer a suited lady with bleached teeth behind every NASCAR winner ......... and not too long ago, there was that heavy set white haired older guy handing out the sponsors" cap to all in the NASCAR winner circle. I tell you, it's all about marketing, and the better image will generate better product following which hopefully will translate to cash registers - aka merchandising, apparel ....


And re Branson, the one lesson that Hollywood taught us is, any publicity is good publicity :wink:

 

[92 white 0650]

Re: Exactly.........sort of

Tedro, image and marketing are the two sides of the same coin.....

Hrant, you're preaching to the choir. But you havent' answered the one question that I am trying to get Mr Sparrow to debate you on.........would those foreign F-1 sponsors rather have their local (German, Italian, French, Indian etc) boy driving their car in 15th place or an American boy driving their car at the front? That's the question I put in front of you two.

 

[docjohn]

I'm thinking there are a bunch of international companies like banking,energy,insurance,media,internet that would have enough US pressance to justify sponsoring an american in the mostly european F1 circus.

 

[92 white 0650]

Re: Does the US market carry any weight?

....a bunch of international companies like banking,energy,insurance,media,internet that would have enough US pressance to justify sponsoring an american in the mostly european F1 circus.

Let's hope. But it seems to me that those who defend the history of Americans not getting a fair chance in modern F-1 seem to say the reason is, largely, if not totally, that the U.S. market is small compared to the rest of the world. That is a difficult idea for most of us to wrap our heads around. Is it that we're preceived as "Ugly Americans" or is it a simple straightforward market analysis. Afterall, this is a stick and ball based sports market here and NASCAR is the 4 wheel extension of that attraction. Open wheel racing has been in trouble in the U.S. for what?? 15 years?

I don't know....... but something tells me I'm not the F-1 market target when I can't recognize or understand the names on F-1 cars. Maybe, someday, as you say, companies will care about US OW fans and then I'll look for other things to change like Joey Hand's or Scott Speed's son to be accepted in F-1.

 

[Hrant]

Re: Exactly.........sort of

Hrant, you're preaching to the choir. But you haven't' answered the one question that I am trying to get Mr Sparrow to debate you on.........would those foreign F-1 sponsors rather have their local (German, Italian, French, Indian etc) boy driving their car in 15th place or an American boy driving their car at the front? That's the question I put in front of you two.

I hear you. But as you mentioned, there is a cultural divide that is very hard to swallow and it goes beyond the basic "front drivers" even if that would mean more exposure on TV. You must also have a marketable spokesperson in your driver that can relate to the product and to the audience. A brash and whining American such as Kyle Busch or Junior may do more damage to a sponsor - even when they spout all the sponsor names for European markets (presumably with correct pronunciations) than say some of the current F1 drivers who can't seem to find more than quite 5th grade template sentences regarding where they braked who was holding them up when being interviewed about the race

I knew this will eventually get into the "culture wars" of another kind, so here is my $0.01. The European snobbery toward all things American - except for our music and jeans is well established, and occasionally enhanced by none others than our outwardly cowboy or shall I be more pc and say our more adventurous and risk taking culture - winner takes all.

While they resent our deservedly and often arrogantly marketed accomplishments in just 400+/- years - and I wasn't going to mention the "ugly-American" but you did it for me ..... they nevertheless grudgingly enjoy the fruits of our success. Just look at the tourist dollars they spend. They are indeed much more nationalistic in protecting and promoting their own when they have a niche ...... the same can't be said about our culture re how or where the US$ is generated from even though we are all in a world economy now.

By the way, did you see Arnold's ad in Japanese :tongue:

 

[docjohn]

It is true that as american open wheel racing fans we forget that the F1 pilots are really rockstars in thier respective countries.To generate that kind of fame in the US is a tall order in this sport.

 

[Jack Sparrow]

Gotta head to the gym but i will be back with some further points to digest.

 

[92 white 0650]

Re: Oh boy.......better be careful, Hrant

.....The European snobbery toward all things American - except for our music and jeans is well established,.........

Mr. Sparrow's gonna jump all over that.........somehow.

A brash and whining American such as Kyle Busch or Junior may do more damage to a sponsor,.....

So, you're saying it would make no difference, if ............just supposing for a minute, you know, hypothetically, that there was a talented, calm, articulate, hair-jelled, Nico-clone, good looking American? The F-1 sponsors would ignore him too?

But doesn't this silly discussion pale in comparison to the fact that there are so few well-funded American drivers? So that even the talented ones get lost in the crowd? Seems to me that is exactly what FTG had to learn the hard way. :wink:

 

[Hrant]

Oh boy.......better be careful, Hrant


I know! I rarely ever venture into such cultural or political topics unless I can stir some emotions :biggrin::tongue:

The F1 is rich with European tradition; it doesn't have the same cache now in the US thanks to NASCAR. When was the last time you saw more than 2"x3" column in the Sac Bee covering anything relating to F1 - unless it involved a major sex related scandal. Even more to the point, look at the hours F1 is being broadcast in the US ....... we are not their market, at least not until they show up at Indianapolis. The rest of the year/schedule they care less and so it seems the network who don't run the race in delayed mode since that would infringe one of the two dozen NASCAR pre/post/nationwide/inside/outside/paddock/feature .... "analyses"

To your point, yes, a well "rounded" American driver with some European pedigree and perhaps with more of East coast than Californian accent may make the cut if the sponsor's product lines match the profile with the driver's image/history. There is only so much of image change that you can PR ...... what US driver that you know/thinking of could make the transition?

Example, Agassi was great for Cannon. Michael Jordan is great for Nike. These are universal products. But marketing Wrangler jeans with Junior next to a Chevy, or marketing Aflac in Europe with Edwards won't fly even if he does his back flip on their astro turf ......... full NOMEX is on!!!

 

[Honcho]

Re: Exactly.........

but why?

Exactly.

 

[92 white 0650]

Re: Love him or hate him.......

you'll see more of Kobayashi. "Nice knowing you Timo" :redface:

http://www.crash.net/f1/news/154050/1/kobayashi_in_for_abu_dhabi_glock_out_of_toyota_for_good.html

This might be the highlight of the last race of the year. :wink:

 

[myhui]

Brawn GP and many other teams could use this last race to test new parts for next year, even parts that do not conform to this year's regulations.

Look at what Mark Webber did in the previous GP: he used it for testing. And possibly as a result of that, he won the next GP.

 

[92 white 0650]

Re: Next year's design will be very different

Brawn GP and many other teams could use this last race to test new parts for next year, even parts that do not conform to this year's regulations.

While that's a good thought, the entire chassis design will be very different with huge gas tanks (no refueling), so I doubt anyone has a complete prototype ready to drive in anger.

Plus, it would be embarrassing if not expensive to be DQ'd, not to mention DFL. :redface:

Well, on another "testing" note, at least Jens will have the psychological advantage of a having a comfortable (8 mill lb) home at Brawn next year, so he should have the best possible mindset to "let 'er rip." Let's see what he can do with no pressure.

 

[Liquid]

Has there been an official agreement between BGP and JB? I agree that he will be driving without the pressure of the championship (and the playing it safe driving that leading by a wide margin entails), but hadn't heard anything definitive about his contract negotiations.

Would love to see JB back at BGP next season.

 

[Miner]

Re: Next year's design will be very different

Well, on another "testing" note, at least Jens will have the psychological advantage of a having a comfortable (8 mill lb) home at Brawn next year, so he should have the best possible mindset to "let 'er rip." Let's see what he can do with no pressure.

I'll predict he qualifies no better than 8th, and barring major incidents by others, finishes 7th. Badoer would be world Champion if he were driving a Brawn this year!

 

[Dr.Honda]

What the US F1 team needs is a hero so reprehensible to Europeans that they can't avoid hating him (or her). Scott Speed looked and acted like a European F1 star (minus the talent), so he didn't interest Europeans and most Americans really didn't identify with him. I heard a rumor that Peter Windsor may have approached Kyle Busch... now, he would be perfect! Ted, maybe you could give him some quick open-wheel instruction.:biggrin: