F1 2008 Megathread

[Klayton]

Re: Holy crap; "Pulp Racing" ??

Quentin Tarantino coulda wrote that script. I'm still gasping for breath. Can it get any more tense than those last 5 laps?

And two guys trying to climb out of the wussy/recycle pile. A storybook weekend by Bourdais, discounting the rain crapshoot. And a good pit call and Zero to Hero driving for Nick H. How fun is that??

Guess there's not much question about the future of the Kimster. He may as well retire and hand over his seat to Nando this week.

Jup pretty good race but still gets better:

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2008/9/8334.html

Ferrari’s Felipe Massa has been declared the winner of Sunday’s Belgian Grand Prix after McLaren’ Lewis Hamilton was handed a 25-second time penalty following the race. Hamilton drops to third place as a result, with BMW Sauber’s Nick Heidfeld moving up to second.

Great news :biggrin: :biggrin:

 

[Ski_Banker]

What a bunch of garbage!! What did the FIA expect Hamilton to do -- he was basically pushed off the road!

Ferrari better watch out next weekend -- Lewis is going to be pissed and ready for revenge! :biggrin:

 

[Ponyboy]

Watched the race...loved it...went to church...had lunch...and came back to read about what happened. WTF?

What a giant tub of bovine fecal matter. What a crock of sh*t. I can't believe the stewards could come to that unbelievable decision considering the situation. Hamilton let Kimi back in front which he was obliged to do. It's not Hamilton's fault that Kimi couldn't use it to his advantage.

What a farce. As tifosi, even I can't stomach that kind of pathetic and political judgement.

 

[Ponyboy]

Here's the vid. You be the judge:

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[fannsx]

I too loved the race today. It was an incredible ending. Hamilton is just that good.

Then my brother called me and told me the bad news. I just cant believe it.
FIA sucks big time.

I believe FIA is a sub-division of Ferrari They have been treating Mclauren unfairly all season long.

 

[BD]

Kimi drove Hamilton off the road, and kept the lead, but loose the lead on the next corner, and Hamilton was penalized for that?

FIA can suck my turtle head.!!!

 

[ak]

Kimi drove Hamilton off the road, and kept the lead, but loose the lead on the next corner, and Hamilton was penalized for that?

FIA can suck my turtle head.!!!

Whether Kimi didn't give Hamilton enough road or not, Hamilton did cut the corner and to me, it did not look like he fully gave up the position back to Kimi before trying to take over again. They were still side by side and Hamilton gave maybe 1/3 car length before resuming the take over. I'm pretty sure Hamilton would have taken over Kimi eventually even if he gave up the spot back at that point, so it's mostly Hamilton's fault. I had a feeling this was going to be an issue when I saw this happen.

 

[fannsx]

Whether Kimi didn't give Hamilton enough road or not, Hamilton did cut the corner and to me, it did not look like he fully gave up the position back to Kimi before trying to take over again. They were still side by side and Hamilton gave maybe 1/3 car length before resuming the take over. I'm pretty sure Hamilton would have taken over Kimi eventually even if he gave up the spot back at that point, so it's mostly Hamilton's fault. I had a feeling this was going to be an issue when I saw this happen.

I recorded this race. Hamilton fully gave Kimi back the lead. He was completely the Ferrari while the two were fighting for position again. Neither one did anything other than racing. Hamilton is just that much better in the wet.

Massa lost the race by 23.125 seconds and the penalty was 25 seconds. That's just like FIA penalized Hamilton for 23.126 seconds. Hand over the trophy. What if the difference was 32 sec. Would FIA give Hamilton a 33 seconds penalty? I bet the answer is YES!

 

[NSXrebel]

I recorded this race. Hamilton fully gave Kimi back the lead. He was completely the Ferrari while the two were fighting for position again. Neither one did anything other than racing. Hamilton is just that much better in the wet.

Massa lost the race by 23.125 seconds and the penalty was 25 seconds. That's just like FIA penalized Hamilton for 23.126 seconds. Hand over the trophy. What if the difference was 32 sec. Would FIA give Hamilton a 33 seconds penalty? I bet the answer is YES!

The answer is NO. The standard penalty is 10 seconds, but in the last 5 laps or so or after the race is over, the standard penalty is 25 seconds. Familiarize yourself with the rules before spouting theories of conspiracy and what not.

He did get and unfair advantage even if he did "relinquish" position. Had he stayed on track, he would have had to brake hard and been farther behind Kimi. Would you rather the Steward handed him a 10 grid penalty for the next race? That could be even worse for Lewis.

 

[fannsx]

My understanding is that the 25 sec penalty is to replace a drive through penalty after the race is over. I dont know of any difference in penalty due to the lap the incident took place. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

Anyway, I was exaggerating in my last post to point out the unfair treatment I feel Mclauren has been getting. Sorry that you took it literally. Even David Hobbs has been hinting this on several occasions during the broadcast.

Hamilton was actually slightly ahead of Kimi before the alleged incident, but Kimi had the inside racing line. This was a pure fair racing to my eyes. For Hamilton to give up the lead afterward, he must have lost enough momentum to make it fair again. I dont think there are rules stating how far back you have to give up, or is there?

 

[fannsx]

"Meanwhile the former triple world champion Jackie Stewart has reiterated his concern about the composition of the panels of stewards who officiate at formula one world championship grands prix, expressing the view that they lack sufficient hands-on racing knowledge to qualify them to adjudicate consistently on such complex sporting matters.

"I am bound to ask where is the differentiation between the decisions of the stewards at the European grand prix at Valencia who deemed that [Felipe] Massa should not receive a drive-through penalty for pulling out alongside another car when resuming after a refuelling stop, and Bruno Senna, who received a drive-through penalty after doing the same in the GP2 race in Belgium which had the effect of dropping him from first to 12th place," he said. "So Senna was given a much harsher penalty by a different group of stewards. There is just not enough consistency in these decisions. If you sit down and watch the US Open tennis, top-division football or rugby the jobs of umpire or referee are carried out by good people who are paid for their skills and are accountable by contract. Why is motor racing so very different?"

Meanwhile former Ferrari driver Niki Lauda, who lost the 1976 world championship by a single point to McLaren's James Hunt, said in his view that the stewards' ruling was "the worst decision ever" and that Hamilton was beyond reproach.

"Hamilton did nothing wrong," said Lauda. "He was on the outside, and then let him [Raikkonen] by, which is the rule. Then afterwards he passed him. There was nothing wrong from Hamilton. There was nothing special in what happened. Hamilton did the right thing in letting him by, and then passed him. It was an absolutely perfect drive."


THe above are not my words, but from great names in Formula one.

 

[NSXrebel]

Lewis Hamilton qualified 15th!
And Sebastian Vettel took pole!

 

[areout]

Yeah the race is gonna be great tomorrow.

Btw mclaren fans stop arguing, just bear in mind he would never have a chance to overtake him there if he didnt gain unfair advantage. That's all, no need for drawing.

 

[Ponyboy]

Yeah the race is gonna be great tomorrow.

Btw mclaren fans stop arguing, just bear in mind he would never have a chance to overtake him there if he didnt gain unfair advantage. That's all, no need for drawing.

Quali today definitely shook the DC race up. And since Hamburns' "balls" comment about Kimi, I don't think KR will give any allowance for passing.

Actually, Hamburns gained 5 seconds on Kimi in the previous two laps and would have had plenty of chances for overtaking.

 

[docjohn]

I again am late to the party but just watched the race.Everyone is sorta correct imo.He did gain time with the shortcut,he also looked to lift but he was still closer to kimi at that time than he would have been.He also had a significantly faster car near the end so he would have passed kimi,but the rain changed all that.All bets were off and the driver with the better feel kept his car off the walls.Hami is gifted.

 

[92 white 0650]

Re: Oh, now I get it..........

Sorta pulled a DocJohn this week, being on vacation and not a lot of time to read up on the crap that went down last weekend. But I did find something that cleared it all up for me.....really. These guys let the cat out of the bag

FIA DENIES DISCRIMINATION ALLEGATIONS
Sniff, Friday, September 12th, 2008 at 3:08 am
Posted in Motorsport

Following the 25 second penalty given to Lewis Hamilton for allegedly gaining track advantage over Kimi Raikkonen in the Belgian Grand Prix, the fat, super-rich old men who control Formula 1 have denied any sinister bias against the British McLaren driver.

“There really is no agenda here,” said one FIA steward yesterday. “It was plain to see that the darkie unfairly passed the blond haired, blue eyed chap. In doing so the genetically pure driver clearly had a place stolen from him by that other one, which should come as no surprise knowing their sort”.

“I must reiterate that this does not mean the FIA has some sort of problem with fuzzy-wuzzies,” he added. “We welcome our more rhythmic brethren in Formula 1, although obviously we’d prefer it if they didn’t come into the club lounge unless it’s to serve drinks. And even then you’d probably best keep an eye on your wallet if you know what I mean”.

“I hope this completely clears up any confusion about the incident involving the, you know, one of them, and the mighty gentleman of the master race,” our source concluded. “The ruling after Spa was nothing to do with ethnicity. It was simply good old fashioned transparent corruption and bias in favour of Ferrari as usual… oh damn…”

Also, some new rules: Did Varsha announce these?

THOSE NEW F1 RULES IN FULL
Sniff, Friday, September 12th, 2008 at 3:06 am
Posted in Motorsport

Following unfortunate misunderstandings in the Grands Prix at Valencia and Spa, the FIA has revised the Red Car Rule for Formula 1. These amendments will be applied with immediate effect:

1) Overtaking a Ferrari is not permitted under any circumstances.
2) In the pit lane, a Ferrari always has precedence over other cars.
3) Any driver finishing less than 25 seconds ahead of a Ferrari will be penalized 25 seconds.*
4) If neither Ferrari finishes in first place, the stewards reserve the right to declare the result null and void (or to adjust it as necessary).
5) Only Ferrari drivers are permitted to use anything other than ‘designated’ parts of a circuit.
6) If forced off the ‘designated’ part of the track by a Ferrari, the guilty driver should immediately crash his car and return to the pits
6) Any driver or team appealing against any FIA decision in favour of Ferrari may be subject to a fine and/or the deduction of points.
*Subject to post-race adjustment by the stewards.

Now with that out of the way, on to this week's conspiracy (it's going to be a long nite catching up on both practice and the qually). :wink:

 

[Klayton]

Grande grande.

 

[NSXrebel]

History in the making.

Honda on the other hand.... :redface::frown:

 

[Ponyboy]

What an awesome race - flawless driving by Vettel.

WTH happened to Kimi though? As usual, he gets the FTD on the last lap of the race and silent for most of it. C'mon Kimi!

 

[Hasdrubal]

Anyone else think Hamilton is too aggressive when he makes a pass? I mean, he has phenomenal talent, but it seems like every race he punts someone off the track. As fast as he is, he doesn't need to drive like that.

Nick

 

[NSXrebel]

Anyone else think Hamilton is too aggressive when he makes a pass? I mean, he has phenomenal talent, but it seems like every race he punts someone off the track. As fast as he is, he doesn't need to drive like that.

Nick

Didn't he run off like 2 cars at today's race?

 

[92 white 0650]

Re: Must be whatever stopped the sunspots

cause something really wierd is going on. I gotta make a list;

1. McLaren makes the strategic blunder in Q?
2. Vettel is flawless and Heikki/McLaren has nothing for him?
3. Brutal conditions today and no one seriously crashes? (F-India doesnt' count)
4. Ferrari lets Kimi sign up for another 2 years? (Didn't they remember he's Finnish )
5. We've got to deal with the "Nando to Red Cars" story for 2 more years? Oh pull.....ese !!!
6. Hamo didn't get a penalty???:tongue:
7. Honda prays for rain these days and they produced zippo. :redface:
8. Toyota has actually figured something out (where's their Japanese management?) :wink:
9. Roberto Kubby is a whiner?? :frown:
10. Nothing like this even happens in our club races.

Pretty freakin' wierd. But I love it.

 

[92 white 0650]

Re: Ferrari's set-up and tires

WTH happened to Kimi though? As usual, he gets the FTD on the last lap of the race and silent for most of it. C'mon Kimi!

Kimi blames the tires not being able to retain temps and grip. He says they're like a switch, when they come on, they work and well and before that (and sometimes after that if they cool down?) they are crap. This might explain why

* Flippy was so embarrassingly bad at Silverstone.
* both of them were midpack nobodys this race
* Kimi had the field covered last week but lost it big time in the wet

We know that setup has a lot to do with tire temps and wear. Hamo has showed he has issues with dry front tires due to his set up and driving style. So, perhaps Ferrari has lost their way with a wet soft setup that works with the Bridgestone rains. The wets don't work for sure and inters don't do so well either. Matchett or one of them remarked how compliant (my words) the McLaren was over the kerbs and how tough it was for the red cars to settle the car off the kerbs and get the power down. This may be the Red Car's achilles heal since you could never have enough wet weather testing worth a damn due to the large # of variables that rain introduces. They can't solve that with just more money or testing.

Anyway, Kimi has always had great hands and Flippy claims he's pretty good in the wet as well (which I have not heard anyone seriously refute). So, I'm about to give credit to those boys for even keeping the bloody things on the track !!

Anyway, does anyone have a great Matchett/WindTunnel type answer to this question?

 

[TC]

Honda on the other hand.... :redface::frown:

It's painful to watch Honda be the backmarker of F1 while teams like STR and Toyota are regularly getting into Q2 and Q3 during qualifying and running in points-paying positions. They haven't made one stitch of progress this season and now are only ahead of Force India in the constructor standings. Button hasn't scored a point in 10 races. It just doesn't make sense - at a minimum Honda F1 should be fighting for 4th place along with Toyota and Renault.

 

[Hasdrubal]

Honda's problem is that there really is no central direction, no vision in their motorsports program. No passion, the way they used to have when the founder was still calling the shots.

I seem to recall reading an article about Ross Brawn's move to Honda, his arrival and initial appraisal. Basically it went something like this...

Brawn: You have got to be kidding.
Honda: Well, it's not the best, but you can help, right?
Brawn: ...
Honda: Where do you want us to start?
Brawn: ...
Honda: We need to improve the car, need to start scoring points.
Brawn: Riiight... Forget this year. Let's start working on next year's car, maybe we can make some progress there.
Honda: But, we've barely started the season, isn't there some hope?
Brawn: Trust me, you weren't going to get any points anyway. Now let's get to work.

Nick