Enthusify launch thread

I am glad you can link to paypal so you will know if the item is sold through them but shouldn't the option of paying be for the buyer? I mean if they pick the paypal button above will the buyer still have the option of paying by CC through you? You should give the seller the option of taking either but not only PP imo. I actually liked paying through you better then PP.

A point of clarification.
If you, as a seller, select to be paid via PayPal, Check, or Direct Deposit, the buyer will still pay for the item with their favorite credit or debit card. Selecting a method of payment as a seller refers to your preferred method to receive the buyer's payment from Enthusify.

We do have a forthcoming feature that will allow a buyer to pay with PayPal. That feature is not yet available to buyers.
 
The number of listings before and during the trial are shown in my post above. It's pretty clear there was no substantial change in either listings per day or sales per day, and if anything the numbers slightly favor Enthusify.

Granted it was only a two week window - one of the reasons I'd do a longer test before staying switched over in order to collect stronger statistical data.

Interest and promotions related to Enthusify I would assume should have had a non-trivial impact on listing rates over such a short time. I know I almost listed a few things just to kick the tires...and some may have listed because of the gift cards.

How high was/is the fraud rate with regular thread-based listsings? I ask because unless it is higher than the premium/commission Enthusify charges, the aggregate financial benefit to the community in switching to it may be little, zero, or negative (instead of 1 person getting ripped off for $300, many people pay $1200 in fees).

That said, for higher-ticket items I have been known to use paypal in buyer/seller mode (with 3% fee and buyer protection) instead of personal transfer mode (no fee, no protection) to have some shot at recourse. However, having dealt with PayPal for other reasons my faith in their mediation is pretty low. Enthusify may be better in this regard.

Anyway, I understand some of the reasons for this system and my point isn't to poo-poo them. I would avoid, however, brushing off concerns that folks have. I personally like it for the possibility that it will give a better seller experience (better searching, item classification, or such) but don't like commissioned classified in general. I do sell some stuff through Amazon, but only things I can mark up sufficiently high to make it worth the fees, etc. I don't necessarily like the idea of being locked into a fee system as buyer or seller.

I suppose the bottom line is if the system adds more value than the amount of the fee.

Going off on a tangent... I think a majority of stuff I've "sold" on Prime had a price of $0 (plus actual shipping). How do "free" listings work in this system? (This is another case where a more-intelligent shipping pricing mechanism would be good.)
 
I think a majority of stuff I've "sold" on Prime had a price of $0 (plus actual shipping). How do "free" listings work in this system? (This is another case where a more-intelligent shipping pricing mechanism would be good.)

The system does not accept a selling price below $5 for the sale price and $0 for the shipping price. However, using the new option to collect payment on your own, you could list an item for $5 (and up) to cover shipping and collect the payment on your own when you determine the actual shipping charge.

In step 2, when you select the "Payment" method, select "none."

ScreenShot2012-10-24at101357PM.png
 
Based on the input of this community, yet another new feature went live to the NSX Prime Marketplace today. Thanks for the continued feedback. Now, sellers can choose from more options for payment transfer.

Here is a sample of what a seller sees when creating a listing:
ScreenShot2012-10-24at101357PM.png


Do you have an NSX item in your garage that a fellow Prime member could use? List it for sale: http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/classifieds.php

You may want to tweak that to actually say
"How would you like to receive payment from Enthusify?"

and make a note that this does not affect the options the buyer has.
 
I just got a survey from Enthusify, apparently because I clicked on a listing once. Most of the questions presumed use of the service, which in my case was not the case so I'm not sure how useful my responses will be. At any rate there was a space for freeform comments and FWIW this was my response:

1) I'm not in favor of forcing a rigid marketplace framework on a simple, fun & casual environment. If you look at how eBay and Paypal have evolved, it only goes downhill from here.

2) I am not inclined to offer up my credit card and personal info to a system under development, with unknown security, for the purposes of occasionally buying/selling a few parts for one of my cars.
 
Where is the "Haggle" button?

The haggle feature arrived to NSX Prime today.

  • When creating a listing, a seller can indicate if he would like to accept best offers for the item.
  • If a seller is accepting offers, buyers can submit an offer from the item’s info page.
  • Using the messaging system, a seller can send a buyer a link to a unique checkout page that corresponds to a special price for the item.
  • Sellers can cancel offers they have sent to buyers.
  • Once a buyer buys the item, all checkout pages indicate that the item is no longer available for sale.

List an NSX item for sale using the new OBO feature.
 
Interest and promotions related to Enthusify I would assume should have had a non-trivial impact on listing rates over such a short time. I know I almost listed a few things just to kick the tires...and some may have listed because of the gift cards.

Those promos were mostly over by the time that 14-day test occurred. But you are correct that there are a lot of factors involved, and that is one reason I said a longer test to get better data would be interesting.

How high was/is the fraud rate with regular thread-based listsings? I ask because unless it is higher than the premium/commission Enthusify charges, the aggregate financial benefit to the community in switching to it may be little, zero, or negative (instead of 1 person getting ripped off for $300, many people pay $1200 in fees).

The number of incidents reported to me, and the $ value involved, has become very substantial in the last year. And that's just what people report to me. Every time one surfaces publicly others step forward to confess that they were taken too. I think most people are somewhat ashamed to admit they've been conned.

At this point Enthusify's fee is comparable to a normal PayPal transaction with buyer protection. There isn't a premium for the escrow service.

Since implementing, the only reports of real problems I've heard were related to someone who was trying to get people to go around Enthusify. http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1646611#post1646611

That said, for higher-ticket items I have been known to use paypal in buyer/seller mode (with 3% fee and buyer protection) instead of personal transfer mode (no fee, no protection) to have some shot at recourse. However, having dealt with PayPal for other reasons my faith in their mediation is pretty low. Enthusify may be better in this regard.

That's about where I stand. I guess we'll see when someone has a dispute over an Enthusify transaction. Forcing new accounts onto the platform appears to have had a significant deterrent effect, because a few serial scammers seem to have -- at least temporarily -- given up. So it may take a while to put the escrow system to a real test.

Anyway, I understand some of the reasons for this system and my point isn't to poo-poo them. I would avoid, however, brushing off concerns that folks have.

It is certainly not my intent to brush off any concerns. If you feel I have, please bring them to my attention and I'll try to give them better consideration. I have said repeatedly that I will not continue to run a Marketplace with the rate of fraud that had developed, and that is the only thing that is non-negotiable. Beyond that anything is open to constructive discussion.

Looking back at this thread, I've corrected some misunderstandings about fees and Marketplace activity rates, and have repeatedly asked people to elaborate on vague criticism without much follow-up. That is very frustrating. Shawn, why don't you like it? Please let me know. I value your opinion, but I can't give it proper consideration if you won't explain.

I don't necessarily like the idea of being locked into a fee system as buyer or seller.

Given that the fee is currently 3%, and PayPal takes about the same, what payment system have you been using for sales/purchases on this site to have no fee? By check? PayPal as a gift? Something else I'm missing?

I suppose the bottom line is if the system adds more value than the amount of the fee.

While I can't say definitively that $X of fraud would have occurred without it, looking at the loss rate for the last 12 months I can say that it certainly appears Enthusify has already probably saved members far more than the cumulative fees everyone has paid.. This is the apparent deterrent effect I mentioned above. So maybe just forcing new users onto it is the solution.

Going off on a tangent... I think a majority of stuff I've "sold" on Prime had a price of $0 (plus actual shipping). How do "free" listings work in this system? (This is another case where a more-intelligent shipping pricing mechanism would be good.)

Good question which I see Chad already responded to. It may not currently be perfect for all scenarios (another mismatch is listing a car for sale.. 3% is too much; I'd love to see an easier way to create a mass of listings for someone selling a bunch of parts at once; a way for people to "shop" and then "check out" might be cool too) but it seems at least workable. If free item listings are important to folks perhaps it can go on the feature wish list. It's still new and evolving rapidly - but it already appears to be doing pretty well in some areas I consider key.

Another area of concern I have is "wanted" listings. That is the second main vector scammers are using to take money from people on this site. I believe "wanted" listings are on Enthusify's product roadmap, but I'm not sure what the implementation will look like. I hope it will also be useful for us.


Anyway, as I said, feedback from everyone is welcome. To be useful, please make sure it is constructive and specific. Because I am going to implement something, in some way, to address this fraud problem. If I don't know specifically what people don't like about a given system, I can't ask the developer to address them, or know what to look for in an alternative system.
 
Lud how is the wanted ad scam structured?:confused:
 
I just got a survey from Enthusify, apparently because I clicked on a listing once. Most of the questions presumed use of the service, which in my case was not the case so I'm not sure how useful my responses will be. At any rate there was a space for freeform comments and FWIW this was my response:

1) I'm not in favor of forcing a rigid marketplace framework on a simple, fun & casual environment. If you look at how eBay and Paypal have evolved, it only goes downhill from here.

2) I am not inclined to offer up my credit card and personal info to a system under development, with unknown security, for the purposes of occasionally buying/selling a few parts for one of my cars.

Some 10,000 dollar seats just popped up in the marketplace (true story). Would you use Enthusify or not? Just curious now it is a viable option.
 
Lud how is the wanted ad scam structured?:confused:

It's simple... You post a wanted ad. Someone contacts you offering to sell the parts (if it's via e-mail you don't even see their profile when you're reading their offer). You send them money, then never receive parts.

It's basically a way for even a brand new user with zero posts to "advertise" parts directly to people.
 
Given that the fee is currently 3%, and PayPal takes about the same, what payment system have you been using for sales/purchases on this site to have no fee? By check? PayPal as a gift? Something else I'm missing?

PayPal personal transfer (what you call gift). I think P2P w/o fee was the only option when I started using PayPal. I was not thrilled when they started charging a fee for transactions funded from bank accounts. Sometimes with higher-value items or when person is more-suspect I'll use the "new normal" PayPal with its fee for the (likely false) sense of security/protection.

While I can't say definitively that $X of fraud would have occurred without it, looking at the loss rate for the last 12 months I can say that it certainly appears Enthusify has already probably saved members far more than the cumulative fees everyone has paid.. This is the apparent deterrent effect I mentioned above. So maybe just forcing new users onto it is the solution.

Thanks for the long/detailed reply to my post. Sounds like fraud was much, much more prevalent than I'd imagined. Maybe Enthusify is the lesser of two evils if not outright a good thing. It costs money, but that money is going to honest folks running a business to provide a useful service for fair compensation, saving us from (collectively) giving even larger amounts of money to crooks.

I can dig that.
 
Re: any advantage?

Paypal[/URL] (cash-transfers from bank-account/balance for zero fee)

That is only true for non-commercial "personal" transfers which include no protection for either party. When something is being bought/sold, it does not matter how it is funded, there is always a fee.
 
Is there a way with PayPal to specify you only want to be paid from a bank balance?

Perhaps there is a misunderstanding here. The buyer doesn't pay the seller. The buyer pays Enthusify, who then pays the seller after escrow has closed.

From your total sale amount, the only money anyone takes is the 3% Enthusify fee (from which they absorb any transaction fee when they buyer pays them). They transfer the balance (total minus 3%) to your PayPal account with no additional fees being taken out by PayPal.

It might make sense for them to start accepting Dwolla payments from buyers to lower their own transaction fees, but they are already transferring money to the sellers with no fees.

If I am in fact the one misunderstanding please give an example so I can figure out where you're going...
 
Perhaps there is a misunderstanding here. The buyer doesn't pay the seller. The buyer pays Enthusify, who then pays the seller after escrow has closed.

From your total sale amount, the only money anyone takes is the 3% Enthusify fee (from which they absorb any transaction fee when they buyer pays them). They transfer the balance (total minus 3%) to your PayPal account with no additional fees being taken out by PayPal.

It might make sense for them to start accepting Dwolla payments from buyers to lower their own transaction fees, but they are already transferring money to the sellers with no fees.

If I am in fact the one misunderstanding please give an example so I can figure out where you're going...

So no matter how you choose to be paid it's a 3% fee. I didn't realize that.
 
I just want to express my view on how much I hate enthusify. The reason being I PM'ed a seller about an item because I had a question and I KNOW I was one of the first ones to ask a question or inquire about the item. So after an hour or so since the seller has been offline I clicked on the buy now button just because and it says the item is no longer for sale. I'm going to guess because someone already purchased it???

This system is crap. What if you have a question about something before you buy it. Now you have to wait and if someone else purchases it you're SOL? Before it was first to inquire, and first to pay. Now it's pay first and ask later? Someone explain this to me.
 
I just want to express my view on how much I hate enthusify. The reason being I PM'ed a seller about an item because I had a question and I KNOW I was one of the first ones to ask a question or inquire about the item. So after an hour or so since the seller has been offline I clicked on the buy now button just because and it says the item is no longer for sale. I'm going to guess because someone already purchased it???

This system is crap. What if you have a question about something before you buy it. Now you have to wait and if someone else purchases it you're SOL? Before it was first to inquire, and first to pay. Now it's pay first and ask later? Someone explain this to me.

How is this "crap"? You had a chance to buy it but chose to ask a question. Someone else apparently didn't have any questions and bought it. There is no obligation for a seller to sit around waiting for PMs since anyone can click buy at any time.

You snooze, you lose....
 
How is this "crap"? You had a chance to buy it but chose to ask a question. Someone else apparently didn't have any questions and bought it. There is no obligation for a seller to sit around waiting for PMs since anyone can click buy at any time.

You snooze, you lose....

No I understand you snooze you lose but I'm saying if all info isn't stated like who made it, or you have a legitimate question that could make or break the deal then yes it's crap.

I guess I can see good points though, BUT like I said, if certain things aren't posted and things aren't addressed then it'll just open up another can of worms if the person that bought the item asks after the fact, then backs out or something. I like the old system that people go in order of PM's "or I like to think that's how people do it" then questions were answered, and after that it's process of elimination.
 
but on the flip side of the pm discuss...if you know the seller from prime and are kinda buds ect..then you could make an inside deal effectively "screwing' other interested buyers who did not smooze the seller.....
 
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