Engine speculations

[A.S. Motorsport]

Let's start speculating on drive train :biggrin:
Personally I'm very very interested in the new engine, pics I've seen it's just a J-Series with direct injection cylinder heads.

Now i did some quick maths,
"Old" J's are very easy to tune and are great engines,

A J36, is a 3.2 or 3.5 engine with crank and rods from a 3.7.
with some additional OE parts and exhaust mods. you can expect roughly 340 HP with out major mods.

that is roughly a 15% increase in volumetric efficiency over a current showroom J engine.
(those new J35Z's are apparently much more potent let alone the dual V-Tec 3.7 !)

Comparing the new base RLX/Legend 3.5 Direct injection engine with the current 3.5L J35Z engine there is a approximate gain of 10%

Now the math part.

280/3.5 = 80 HP/L < Showroom TSX, TL J35
310/3.5 = 88.57 HP/L < RLX FWD engine
310/280 = 10.7% increase. < Direct Injection

J36 Stage 1> 340/3.6 = 94.44 HP/L
Stock TL> 305/3.7 = 82.43 HP/L
= 14,6% increase

add lets say 15 + 10 = 25% increase.

Add that to your standard mass production J37A 3.7l
305 HP + 25% = 381 HP + 60 HP Electric power = 441 HP

This all at roughly 6500 rpm, let alone if they start going higher up to 7000-8000 like the R's and S2000's do, even better add more compression.

This doesn't account for the improved intake/exhaust V-tec of new models and there improved head flow.
Let alone the much improved combustion tuning of Direct Injection.
Also this is calculated over a 3.7L engine.

Again this is pure playing around and speculating, as the engine will have improved head flow and a much improved ecu and fuel system making all irrelevant.

Quick calculation a CRZ torque to HP ratio is 2.37 for the IMA engine
11HP / 30NM
60HP / 164NM < RLX if equipped with IMA system which it isn't as far i know.

What does all this come down to? Honda can easily make a 110HP/L V6 with current parts, let alone the if they start tweaking it.
It would be really interesting to see DOHC heads and chain driven cams

 

[Swift]

My $5 bet is that they will take the existing block architecture and go all out on it with more expensive parts and lighter parts etc. The block design has proven itself and paid for itself. So by pouring some money into forged pistons, better heads, etc etc they still are saving money over all new R&D of a block.

Would be cool if they supercharged it though. Why not right?

 

[WingZ]

Actually the NSX and RLX are supposed to have three hybrid motors. One with the engine and two with the fronts (i.e one on each side) with a total of 100+hp:biggrin:

 

[N Spec]

Obviously, the general consensus for expected output from the 3.5-3.7 V6 alone is 380-400 hp. I hope Honda will deliver. A 400hp 3.5 DOHC V6 spinning to 8.5K-9K would be at a conservative 115 hp/liter. That sounds good to me. Would be fantastic if they could squeeze 420hp from the the V6

 

[A.S. Motorsport]

My $5 bet is that they will take the existing block architecture and go all out on it with more expensive parts and lighter parts etc. The block design has proven itself and paid for itself. So by pouring some money into forged pistons, better heads, etc etc they still are saving money over all new R&D of a block.

Would be cool if they supercharged it though. Why not right?

I don't think they will although they did display a supercharged accord at SEMA with a CTSC style kit

 

[Picasso]

Well I read somewhere on the internet it says on a “NSX Special Night” in Honda R&D, from Mr. 上原繁, the new NSX will have a 3.7L, 24valves V6 DOHC i-VTEC, at least 480ps and weights about 1400kgs, would just hope so, can't confirm it anyway:smile:

 

[A.S. Motorsport]

Well I read somewhere on the internet it says on a “NSX Special Night” in Honda R&D, from Mr. 上原繁, the new NSX will have a 3.7L, 24valves V6 DOHC i-VTEC, at least 480ps and weights about 1400kgs, would just hope so, can't confirm it anyway:smile:

No it's going to be a 3.5 24V according to what i've heard and read.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a DOHC head installed bumping efficiency.
Although the dual V-Tec SOHC works as good as many DOHC heads with quite some good numbers.

If DOHC is installed it suggests some one bribed or worse .... a account at Honda to get that approved as the accountants have way to much to say these day's at Honda, and it ain't helping sales.

 

[BD]

All bets are off if it is not DOHC.

 

[dirtbag]

If I were an engineer concerned with packaging and weight, I wouldn't use a DOHC setup.

 

[A.S. Motorsport]

If I were an engineer concerned with packaging and weight, I wouldn't use a DOHC setup.

very likely it won't be DOHC since Honda's account division has huge powers lately and will kill anything interesting or "old school Honda"

But then again a SOHC J engine can quite easily beat a NSX DOHC engine.
If you compare power per liter statistics. (keep in mind that all happen at 6 - 6.5k rpm not 7-8k rpm)

 

[JD Cross]

As Larry Bastanza pointed out the NSX engine rotates in the opposite direction to the rest of the Acura/Honda engine line.

For the new NSX engine I'm not sure if that is as simple as using an existing block and setting the cams etc for that rotation or if a new casting is needed to mount the water pump, cambelts, etc.

Jim

 

[TURBO2GO]

Well I read somewhere on the internet it says on a “NSX Special Night” in Honda R&D, from Mr. 上原繁, the new NSX will have a 3.7L, 24valves V6 DOHC i-VTEC, at least 480ps and weights about 1400kgs, would just hope so, can't confirm it anyway:smile:

I read somewhere on the internet the Victoria's Secret models got together and discussed who they'd like to have their way with for one "special night" and they picked picasso from nsxprime. I would just hope so, can't confirm it anyway:smile:

 

[BD]

very likely it won't be DOHC since Honda's account division has huge powers lately and will kill anything interesting or "old school Honda"

But then again a SOHC J engine can quite easily beat a NSX DOHC engine.
If you compare power per liter statistics. (keep in mind that all happen at 6 - 6.5k rpm not 7-8k rpm)

I don't think SOHC can handle more than 90HP/liter.

If it is achievable, they would have done it already.

This engine without electric motor needs to have at least 100HP/liter or no dice. The power gain over weight saving is quite significant.

The public will never spend over 100K on a world class sports car with only SOHC unless it is FI.

 

[WingZ]

I don't think SOHC can handle more than 90HP/liter.

If it is achievable, they would have done it already.

This engine without electric motor needs to have at least 100HP/liter or no dice. The power gain over weight saving is quite significant.

The public will never spend over 100K on a world class sports car with only SOHC unless it is FI.

Although I'm not sure about what people will pay over $100k for I do agree for the new engine by itself to not make a good deal more power than the 20 year old engine would be pretty absurd.

Not worried though as the target cars for NSX 2.0 are outstanding performers. The insiders who got this car to daylight won't let it fail that way after so much work.

 

[A.S. Motorsport]

I don't think SOHC can handle more than 90HP/liter.

If it is achievable, they would have done it already.

This engine without electric motor needs to have at least 100HP/liter or no dice. The power gain over weight saving is quite significant.

The public will never spend over 100K on a world class sports car with only SOHC unless it is FI.

Oh yes the can run more than 90HP/L,

See what they are getting out of the J's when mixing the parts and tuning them.
Keep in mind this isn't a regular SOHC it has dual V-Tec, this helps.

Secondly the general public won't know unless it's explicitly stated, and then a good junk of them won't get it as they aren't that technical.

 

[BD]

This is where I totally disagree with you. At the moment, 15 years after the J series engine was introduced, the most Honda have given the public is about 82 HP/Liter, and that came out as the engine is about to be retired.

We all know it will not be J series engine in the new NSX/RL because Honda promised a brand new direct injection engine.

Second, if it can achieve 90HP/Liter with SOHC without FI, you're talking about an engine that is completely maxed out and will not have room for future improvement other than increase in displacement. With DOHC, we all know Honda can do 120HP/Liter right off the back. Typically they can do 100HP/Liter and offer up to 120HP/Liter as mid model upgrade or a TypeS model.

So if you want this car to get any kind of notice when it is released, you better pray for DOHC. Never in the history of exotic car I have seen it with SOHC.

For having SOHC, Honda is going backwards regardless how many electric motors they put into this car.

 

[BATMANs]

They need to equal if, not better the normally aspirated HP/liter of this:

 

[WingZ]

They need to equal if, not better the normally aspirated HP/liter of this:

Why not better the Carrera S since it's now over $100k and is seriously fast with only "400 HP"?

 

[BD]

Why not better the Carrera S since it's now over $100k and is seriously fast with only "400 HP"?

Yes, but at $130K with a badge that is only worth anything to people like you and I, this car needs to out perform cars twice it's price... Or at least match a car that is $35K cheaper... GTR.

 

[BATMANs]

Why not better the Carrera S since it's now over $100k and is seriously fast with only "400 HP"?

F that. Japanese needs to learn to lead in performance and sex appeal than to stand on the side lines or to follow.

 

[BD]

F that. Japanese needs to learn to lead in performance and sex appeal than to stand on the side lines or to follow.

Is Shizar better than Hentai...lol Both cultures are pretty messed up.

 

[BATMANs]

Is Shizar better than Hentai...lol Both cultures are pretty messed up.

neither :tongue:

 

[N Spec]

I am going to have to agree with the others here. A modest 115-120 hp/liter is needed and the best way would be super-revving DOHC - what Honda does best. The closer to 500 hp, the better. My expectations aren't as ridiculous as say 130-140hp/liter, but a 420 hp 3.5 V6 does not sound outrageous and should be the bare minimum.

I think the key is keeping the curb weight around 3000 lbs like the original. A 420 hp V6 with 80-100 hp electric motors will then keep the new NSX heavily competitive with the GTR IMO. However, after seeing the projected weight for the new Porsche hypercar with a similar drivetrain setup, I find it harder to believe Honda can achieve 3000 lbs with the hybrid package so more hp is going to be needed apparently.

 

[Honcho]

I am going to have to agree with the others here. A modest 115-120 hp/liter is needed and the best way would be super-revving DOHC - what Honda does best. The closer to 500 hp, the better. My expectations aren't as ridiculous as say 130-140hp/liter, but a 420 hp 3.5 V6 does not sound outrageous and should be the bare minimum.

I think the key is keeping the curb weight around 3000 lbs like the original. A 420 hp V6 with 80-100 hp electric motors will then keep the new NSX heavily competitive with the GTR IMO. However, after seeing the projected weight for the new Porsche hypercar with a similar drivetrain setup, I find it harder to believe Honda can achieve 3000 lbs with the hybrid package so more hp is going to be needed apparently.

Honda has stated the car must be under 3000 lbs to be competitive. Ito is treating the weight target with the same gravity as the aluminum monocoque that he faced back in the 80's. He is making it the #1 challenge for his engineers and expects them to rise to it just like he and his team did. I think they will succeed.

My best educated guess is that the NSX and RLX whill share the same bottom end and hybrid drivetrain layout/tech, but the RLX will use SOHC and the NSX will have DOHC on the same short block. The 3.5 liter test mules we know are currently testing in Ohio are basically using the RLX platform, which appears to be good for 350-380 hp combined and 40+ mpg. NSX will need 100 more, and the best way to get that is to bump compression, spin it up to 8000 and go DOHC. What keeps me interested is whether we will finally see the long-promised Advanced VTEC on this new engine...

 

[Caustic]

Honda has stated the car must be under 3000 lbs to be competitive. Ito is treating the weight target with the same gravity as the aluminum monocoque that he faced back in the 80's. He is making it the #1 challenge for his engineers and expects them to rise to it just like he and his team did. I think they will succeed.

A GT3RS is 3050 lbs. Achieving the target might be possible, but at what final cost?