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Down Force intake Scoop.. Wow!
- Thread starter Zero-Cool
- Start date
Re: Down Force intake SCOOP..WOW!!
Ive got a Cantrell, but do you guys get a little whistling sometimes? How about a scratchy sound when the throttle opens up? Im not overly concerned about either, but just want to check in on this....
Ive got a Cantrell, but do you guys get a little whistling sometimes? How about a scratchy sound when the throttle opens up? Im not overly concerned about either, but just want to check in on this....
Re: Down Force intake SCOOP..WOW!!
Their website says $195 starting on September 1. downforce.biz
Their website says $195 starting on September 1. downforce.biz
Re: Down Force intake SCOOP..WOW!!
Yep, it's normal, the amount of whistling will depends on the filter that you are using. It used to be a bit more pronounced with the K&N and it's less obvious with the stock filter on my NSX.
Ken
P.S. Get an aftermarket exhaust and it will drown out the whistling
Dave,SPA_S2000 said:
Yep, it's normal, the amount of whistling will depends on the filter that you are using. It used to be a bit more pronounced with the K&N and it's less obvious with the stock filter on my NSX.
Ken
P.S. Get an aftermarket exhaust and it will drown out the whistling
Re: Down Force intake SCOOP..WOW!!
I know everyone is swearing by this thing but looking at it again, I have to wonder if this works. The most restrictive portion of the scoop is still about the same. So what you have with this scoop is similar to taking a straw and sucking through a water hose. I wonder aside from the "sound benefit" if it actually makes a difference in power. I mean I can make a similar scoop with a 3 foot diameter inlet but it will not amount to any additional benefit. The only dyno I've seen is with the unifilter. This kind of goes back to XSN's original point about seeing a dyno graph on this product alone, by itself with correct dyno procedures. The only difference I can see this making at this point is somehow the shape contributing to better airflow. I'm not trying to diss the product, I just want to understand this better and be scientific about this.
I know everyone is swearing by this thing but looking at it again, I have to wonder if this works. The most restrictive portion of the scoop is still about the same. So what you have with this scoop is similar to taking a straw and sucking through a water hose. I wonder aside from the "sound benefit" if it actually makes a difference in power. I mean I can make a similar scoop with a 3 foot diameter inlet but it will not amount to any additional benefit. The only dyno I've seen is with the unifilter. This kind of goes back to XSN's original point about seeing a dyno graph on this product alone, by itself with correct dyno procedures. The only difference I can see this making at this point is somehow the shape contributing to better airflow. I'm not trying to diss the product, I just want to understand this better and be scientific about this.
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Re: Down Force intake SCOOP..WOW!!
I was thinking the same thing but when you think about it, how do you measure that on a stand still dyno?
comquat1 said:
I was thinking the same thing but when you think about it, how do you measure that on a stand still dyno?
Re: Down Force intake SCOOP..WOW!!
Malibu Rapper:
I hope this makes sense if you have not taken physics. If some parts are confusing, just let me know. A quick search on Google for "Bernoulli's principle" or possibly "venturi effect" may provide some clearer diagrams.
Let's bring Bernoulli's Principle into the discussion.
We are in effect increasing the cross-sectional area (A1) of the opening of the air funnel with this part. The piping that connects to the stock air box has roughly the same cross-sectional area as the stock air funnel (a2).
A1>a2.
Therefore, we are moving a fluid (air) from the atmosphere (air from the outside-->through A1) and it is passing through a constricted piping (a2).
A1v1 = a2V2 (we know this to be true.)
(where v1 and V2 are the speeds of the fluid [air] at A1 and a2 respectively).
Therefore, since the cross-sectional area is decreasing as air moves through the piping towards the intake box, the speed must increase for the equation to hold true. In other words, we are decreasing a2 compared to A1...so V2 must increase to balance out the change if A1v1 = a2V2.
Also, as the speed increases, the pressure will decrease (take my word for it for now, but let me know if you want a demonstration you can do at home). Therefore, at a2, we have air with a higher velocity and a decreased pressure as compared to air at A1 (or the atmosphere)
Theoretically, the decreased pressure should act as a partial vacuum, and cause the high pressure air from A1 (or the atmostphere) to move in a fill the region of decreased pressure (hopefully it sucks in air).
Of course, this is just idealistic/simplified physics. Many variables have not been taken into account, so take it for what it is. However, the underlying principles are known to be true in the world of physics.
Hope this was helpful. Does it make any sense?
Malibu Rapper:
I hope this makes sense if you have not taken physics. If some parts are confusing, just let me know. A quick search on Google for "Bernoulli's principle" or possibly "venturi effect" may provide some clearer diagrams.
Let's bring Bernoulli's Principle into the discussion.
We are in effect increasing the cross-sectional area (A1) of the opening of the air funnel with this part. The piping that connects to the stock air box has roughly the same cross-sectional area as the stock air funnel (a2).
A1>a2.
Therefore, we are moving a fluid (air) from the atmosphere (air from the outside-->through A1) and it is passing through a constricted piping (a2).
A1v1 = a2V2 (we know this to be true.)
(where v1 and V2 are the speeds of the fluid [air] at A1 and a2 respectively).
Therefore, since the cross-sectional area is decreasing as air moves through the piping towards the intake box, the speed must increase for the equation to hold true. In other words, we are decreasing a2 compared to A1...so V2 must increase to balance out the change if A1v1 = a2V2.
Also, as the speed increases, the pressure will decrease (take my word for it for now, but let me know if you want a demonstration you can do at home). Therefore, at a2, we have air with a higher velocity and a decreased pressure as compared to air at A1 (or the atmosphere)
Theoretically, the decreased pressure should act as a partial vacuum, and cause the high pressure air from A1 (or the atmostphere) to move in a fill the region of decreased pressure (hopefully it sucks in air).
Of course, this is just idealistic/simplified physics. Many variables have not been taken into account, so take it for what it is. However, the underlying principles are known to be true in the world of physics.
Hope this was helpful. Does it make any sense?
Last edited:
Re: Down Force intake SCOOP..WOW!!
avalon96, thanks for the explanation. I understand the concept in theory and principle. But there are a lot of other variables that play into this as you mentioned. Now if only we can get an accurate dyno done on the product itself to verify that it's more than just a noisemaker. I believe that it's possible to increase the HP via the intake but that increase I think would be a lot less than what was reported with the unifilter and the AIS. I also have a bit of faith in what the Honda engineers were doing when they designed the stock intake the way they did. Maybe they just designed it that way for the weather, carwashes, particles, etc.
It'd be great if the next person that installs this could do a back to back dyno pull. Please?
avalon96, thanks for the explanation. I understand the concept in theory and principle. But there are a lot of other variables that play into this as you mentioned. Now if only we can get an accurate dyno done on the product itself to verify that it's more than just a noisemaker. I believe that it's possible to increase the HP via the intake but that increase I think would be a lot less than what was reported with the unifilter and the AIS. I also have a bit of faith in what the Honda engineers were doing when they designed the stock intake the way they did. Maybe they just designed it that way for the weather, carwashes, particles, etc.
It'd be great if the next person that installs this could do a back to back dyno pull. Please?
Re: Down Force intake SCOOP..WOW!!
so what you are saying is that A1 is > A2 while A1V1 is not as recieved as A2V2 when it doesn't deliver to A1 as much as A2 after A1 and A2 when going back? :tongue:
so what you are saying is that A1 is > A2 while A1V1 is not as recieved as A2V2 when it doesn't deliver to A1 as much as A2 after A1 and A2 when going back? :tongue:
avalon96 said:
Re: Down Force intake SCOOP..WOW!!
I also agree with the statement that Honda engineers knew what they were doing. I also agree that the weather/carwashes/particles also played a part in this design.
What is really interesting is the curve on the lip on the opening of the stock piping. I haven't taken any advanced physics courses, so I couldn't comment on how that would affect the air being drawn in. It looks VERY interesting.
Malibu Rapper said:I also have a bit of faith in what the Honda engineers were doing when they designed the stock intake the way they did. Maybe they just designed it that way for the weather, carwashes, particles, etc.
It'd be great if the next person that installs this could do a back to back dyno pull. Please?
I also agree with the statement that Honda engineers knew what they were doing. I also agree that the weather/carwashes/particles also played a part in this design.
What is really interesting is the curve on the lip on the opening of the stock piping. I haven't taken any advanced physics courses, so I couldn't comment on how that would affect the air being drawn in. It looks VERY interesting.
Re: Down Force intake SCOOP..WOW!!
To add to my previous post:
http://2nrwerks.net/nsx-ais.asp
"A simple test was performed while the car was standing still, a small plastic ziplock baggie was held 6 inches away from the side vent. The rpm were brought up rapidly from an idle to 6,000 and the baggie was literaly sucked right out of our hand and plastered onto the side vent grill. The scientific test concluded that this product really SUCKS! "
Of course, this is just for your amusement. However, my previous explanation would explain the sucking as described by 2nrwerks. I think i will try the same experiment, but with a before/after test. They didn't mention if the bag was sucked to the vent with the stock intake.
Remember, just for your amusement. :wink:
Oh. Daliracing mentions that this design is from the NSX-GT Lemans racecar. Any truth to this?
"Just because it was molded directly from the intake of the 1994-95 Le Mans NSX-GT does not mean that it does anything for the car, but it MIGHT, and besides, it sounds awesome and looks killer!"
http://www.daliracing.com/v666-5/catalog/index_browse_part.cfm?focus=874
To add to my previous post:
http://2nrwerks.net/nsx-ais.asp
"A simple test was performed while the car was standing still, a small plastic ziplock baggie was held 6 inches away from the side vent. The rpm were brought up rapidly from an idle to 6,000 and the baggie was literaly sucked right out of our hand and plastered onto the side vent grill. The scientific test concluded that this product really SUCKS! "
Of course, this is just for your amusement. However, my previous explanation would explain the sucking as described by 2nrwerks. I think i will try the same experiment, but with a before/after test. They didn't mention if the bag was sucked to the vent with the stock intake.
Remember, just for your amusement. :wink:
Oh. Daliracing mentions that this design is from the NSX-GT Lemans racecar. Any truth to this?
"Just because it was molded directly from the intake of the 1994-95 Le Mans NSX-GT does not mean that it does anything for the car, but it MIGHT, and besides, it sounds awesome and looks killer!"
http://www.daliracing.com/v666-5/catalog/index_browse_part.cfm?focus=874
Re: Down Force intake SCOOP..WOW!!
I'm not sure how it was evaluated by Honda 16 years ago but today, the major influence on these interesting design tweaks is NVH (Noise Vibration Harshness) and not hp.
avalon96 said:
I'm not sure how it was evaluated by Honda 16 years ago but today, the major influence on these interesting design tweaks is NVH (Noise Vibration Harshness) and not hp.
Re: Down Force intake SCOOP..WOW!!
Just put mine in tonight. It goes in tight (ended up bending one flap that the clips go into, but bent it back to fix), but once in, it appears to seat perfectly. In the little bit of driving I did do, I think it might be a bit peppier. I haul azz out of Meijer's parking lot up to 45, and it seemed a bit faster to my seat of the pants. I'd say it's worth getting now, especially if they won't make anymore after 150 buy as per their website.
Just put mine in tonight. It goes in tight (ended up bending one flap that the clips go into, but bent it back to fix), but once in, it appears to seat perfectly. In the little bit of driving I did do, I think it might be a bit peppier. I haul azz out of Meijer's parking lot up to 45, and it seemed a bit faster to my seat of the pants. I'd say it's worth getting now, especially if they won't make anymore after 150 buy as per their website.
Re: Down Force intake SCOOP..WOW!!
Contacting...hope this guy gets back to me. Sounds like a nice mod.
Contacting...hope this guy gets back to me. Sounds like a nice mod.
Re: Down Force intake SCOOP..WOW!!
Hi
Not sure how many they have left. They are limited to a maximum of 150 scoops. Reason is probably what have been discussed in this thread already.
Regards
DrVolkl said:
Hi
Not sure how many they have left. They are limited to a maximum of 150 scoops. Reason is probably what have been discussed in this thread already.
Regards
Re: Down Force intake SCOOP..WOW!!
Made it in...got it for $135...
Thanks for the thread! I never would have seen it otherwise! (There goes another $100 I wasn't planning on spending this week).
Made it in...got it for $135...
Thanks for the thread! I never would have seen it otherwise! (There goes another $100 I wasn't planning on spending this week).
Re: Down Force intake SCOOP..WOW!!
Just curious, where did you get the screws? Does someone know the size/type so I could go to a hardware store and get them in advance?
Thanks!
nis350 said:
Just curious, where did you get the screws? Does someone know the size/type so I could go to a hardware store and get them in advance?
Thanks!
Re: Down Force intake SCOOP..WOW!!
I know that some of you dont condone spirited driving...but here is my story. My friend has a 02 Carrera 2, I think its 300bhp, its all stock except for suspension. We did a couple of drives where he just beat me in the NSX for 2-3 car lenghts. A couple of weeks ago I installed the air intake scoop and we did the same drives...what a difference. I beat him once and the other I started to pull on him. He couldnt believe it, he thought I had just installed NO2 at the least. It made a believer out of me and by far the best mod I have experienced in the NSX.
I know that some of you dont condone spirited driving...but here is my story. My friend has a 02 Carrera 2, I think its 300bhp, its all stock except for suspension. We did a couple of drives where he just beat me in the NSX for 2-3 car lenghts. A couple of weeks ago I installed the air intake scoop and we did the same drives...what a difference. I beat him once and the other I started to pull on him. He couldnt believe it, he thought I had just installed NO2 at the least. It made a believer out of me and by far the best mod I have experienced in the NSX.
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