Crazy question...anyone go back to N/A or think about it?

[stuntman]

A high hp/l n/a motor wont last as long as an equal output fi motor and will cost alot to make. It will also be extremely rev happy and finiky to start from a dead stop and is not a good formula for a street car or most if the nsx community. Stalling at a traffic light due to so little rotating mass and a light-switch clutch will get old in a hurry.

I hate those comments on "lag" and "waiting until 4k rpm to go". First off, if you want to go, tou shouldnt be that low in the revs anyway. On a turbo car, even below 4k on most systems, you will have a noticeable increase in tq over stock so "while you are waiting for 4k" in the turbo, you will also be pulling away from the na car.

Imo turbos are far more engaging to drive than an na car which simply responds to what you do. When driving a car at the limits, you predict and anticipate what is going to happen, not react. In a turbo you haveto anticipate the powerband like a 2-stroke motor and to me that is a lot more fun. Plus the rush of the torque when it hits. Theres nothing like a turbo nsx in my eyes...

 

[Accel Junky]

Good feedback. I guess I really need two NSXs. Been trying to convince my wife to get a "hers". Would definitely keep that one N/A. Alas, just a pipe dream. She wants to be a suburbanite in an SUV. Bait and switch?

I guess I have to agree with the poster that said they stopped taking their NSX to the track as much. I'd probably be out there every chance I could if I wasn't a little concerned about either blowing something up or putting my car into a wall. Granted the car has been utterly reliable with the Lovefab setup for the past couple of years...

In the back of my mind I look back to the carefree bolt-on days. Maybe I should just start over from scratch. Maybe it is the thrill of the build. Buying each of the parts to see what they do. Once you have a $12k turbo setup, that's pretty much the extent of bolting stuff on.

 

[Sportsmind4me]

the reason why i dont want a ctsc is because the design does not allow for efficient aftercooling. been there, done that. it doesn't work for hard use. i think the solution might be meth injection, but i dont want to do that. just another thing to worry about.

at least consistency of boost is not an issue with superchargers, which is nice. turbocharging on the other hand is really hard to get steady boost... and if you dial it in perfectly, it can still change with temp and elevation... and its laggy. ultimately the best for big gains though.

rotrex or vortech would be more more ideal to me. allows for aftercooling, excellent throttle response, and good power gains. they make these for the s2000, but not the NSX.

and that leaves me with NA being best for the NSX for me. the pure sound of an NA is better too.

There was an NSX for sale in dupont registry and autotrader not too long ago with a rotrex sc and aftercooler with 100hp gain, no loss through gears. Looked pretty solid but seller appeared to have trouble unloading it.

 

[EIFFEL]

Once I got CTSC on my 91, I had wish I had done it sooner. One drive and the smile on your face is semi-permanent. I will not going back to N/A. No regrets. BTW. I waited 6-7 yrs in N/A form before I got SC'ed. Once I got used to the power, I had to upgrade my DD to match the NSX.

 

[gsrboy]

NA is fun, but it is nothing compared to turbo. Sometimes I wish I would have gone the turbo route. Even though I am at about 350whp I feel like its not fast enough. I have always been a turbo guy and I almost made a last minute decision to go turbo 2 years ago. Since its too late for turbo now, my goal is to bring the car down to about 2500lbs. Although the ITBs do sound amazing!

 

[Nukem]

NA is fun, but it is nothing compared to turbo. Sometimes I wish I would have gone the turbo route. Even though I am at about 350whp I feel like its not fast enough. I have always been a turbo guy and I almost made a last minute decision to go turbo 2 years ago. Since its too late for turbo now, my goal is to bring the car down to about 2500lbs. Although the ITBs do sound amazing!

Is there ever enough power. You just get use to it:tongue:

 

[gsrboy]

Is there ever enough power. You just get use to it:tongue:

I guess its not, after a while I will want more again (or take more out of the car). I was throwing up the idea of doing the SOS stroker 3.5L 13:1 and toda cams on e85. I also thought about ITBs and turbo. However the most realistic thing was to leave my girlfriend at home since she weighs 110lbs or tell her to go on a diet! :tongue:

 

[RYU]

Tuan, i've been following your awesome build. Interesting to hear your viewpoint. To me a sweet N/A build was always something to aspire to, yet in all my cars I ended up going FI... shrug

 

[gsrboy]

Tuan, i've been following your awesome build. Interesting to hear your viewpoint. To me a sweet N/A build was always something to aspire to, yet in all my cars I ended up going FI... shrug

Ryu, this summer I will let you test drive my car so you can compare NA vs FI. I have yet to be in a FI nsx so it will be an experience for me as well.

 

[RYU]

Ryu, this summer I will let you test drive my car so you can compare NA vs FI. I have yet to be in a FI nsx so it will be an experience for me as well.

ditto! hope i'm able to dial in my F/IC tune by then and hope my oem clutch holds up - it's on it's last legs!

 

[gsrboy]

ditto! hope i'm able to dial in my F/IC tune by then and hope my oem clutch holds up - it's on it's last legs!

If anything I can help you with your clutch install and you can help me with the rear aluminum bumper support bar. :biggrin:

 

[RYU]

If anything I can help you with your clutch install and you can help me with the rear aluminum bumper support bar. :biggrin:

And the front too if you'd like. The front beam was actually much easier.

btw.. if you're looking for weight reduction. 02+ conversion is a no brainer That's a good 30+lbs. (I have the weightwatchers list at home somewhere)

 

[gsrboy]

And the front too if you'd like. The front beam was actually much easier.

btw.. if you're looking for weight reduction. 02+ conversion is a no brainer That's a good 30+lbs. (I have the weightwatchers list at home somewhere)

The front and rear would be awesome! I would like to do the 02+ conversion just don't have the money for it now.

Lets take your motor out while we are at it and build it while I am there! :tongue: I will bring my tools just in case!

 

[RYU]

Lets take your motor out while we are at it and build it while I am there! :tongue: I will bring my tools just in case!

Easy there! The car has been down for most of the last two years! I actually would like to enjoy driving it at some point in my life lol

 

[gsrboy]

Easy there! The car has been down for most of the last two years! I actually would like to enjoy driving it at some point in my life lol

Oh! Didn't know that. What was it down for? If you don't mind me asking.

 

[Mac Attack]

Nitrous Tuan, nitrous.... Put a fogger nozzle in each ITB runner - instant extra 150HP. Your engine is already built for it!

Dave

 

[RYU]

Oh! Didn't know that. What was it down for? If you don't mind me asking.

I don't mind at all. Between the 02+ conversion, CTSC, BBK, clear bra, coilovers, chassis bracing, and a bunch of other random odds and ends like a steering rack rebuild... all while trying to cope with a busy work schedule and doing all that work in the garage... :smile:

Nitrous Tuan, nitrous.... Put a fogger nozzle in each ITB runner - instant extra 150HP. Your engine is already built for it!

Dave

Now there's an idea!

 

[gsrboy]

Nitrous Tuan, nitrous.... Put a fogger nozzle in each ITB runner - instant extra 150HP. Your engine is already built for it!

Dave

Dave, now you have me contemplating. That is not a bad idea, I might resort to that. :biggrin:

I don't mind at all. Between the 02+ conversion, CTSC, BBK, clear bra, coilovers, chassis bracing, and a bunch of other random odds and ends like a steering rack rebuild... all while trying to cope with a busy work schedule and doing all that work in the garage...

Wow, thats a hunk of work all done at once. I am glad you are done though! The car must be amazing in looks + power, this makes me excited for socal!

 

[mrbozo1]

Good feedback. I guess I really need two NSXs. Been trying to convince my wife to get a "hers". Would definitely keep that one N/A. Alas, just a pipe dream. She wants to be a suburbanite in an SUV. Bait and switch?

I guess I have to agree with the poster that said they stopped taking their NSX to the track as much. I'd probably be out there every chance I could if I wasn't a little concerned about either blowing something up or putting my car into a wall. Granted the car has been utterly reliable with the Lovefab setup for the past couple of years...

In the back of my mind I look back to the carefree bolt-on days. Maybe I should just start over from scratch. Maybe it is the thrill of the build. Buying each of the parts to see what they do. Once you have a $12k turbo setup, that's pretty much the extent of bolting stuff on.

We have two NSX's (mine and ours and that is my story) and when I think I like n/a I simply take the n/a one for a spin. Surprise ,I am cured of this crazy thought. Although the n/a is smoother, quieter, more comfortable, and easier to drive, I really do prefer the kick in ass that the turbo car gives me at 4k. I cant describe it you must experience it yourself to believe it. JMO

 

[BATMANs]

VTEC sound? I'm not really into that sound personally. To me it doesn't sound as nice as a F car, so I rather not hear it. And at the high RPMs it sounds like it's going to explode.

I prefer the rotary hum.

 

[E-Nough Logic]

I've never really considered FI for my NSX, and here's why:

IMHO, Hondas were designed to be NA motors. There are significant engineering considerations when FI is offered OEM, such as the cooling system (water passages, volume), oiling system, block design (specifically the cylinder walls/lining), and camshaft profiles.

Sure, you can install one of these aftermarket kits, but one will never hit the true potential of the engine, for both performance and reliability (one of the main reasons why we love Hondas), without MAJOR prep work, including:

Cylinder sleeves
Re-plumbing/tapping the oiling system
Changing (whether it's "upgrading" is debatable) connecting rods

Yes, one could slap on a bare-minimum kit that any vendor offers, but now the efficiency of the motor and chosen FI system are dragged down to that of any other manufacturer. To do it right you're looking at a cost that is now close to the most elaborate NA setup.

There is something to be said about extracting 100, 120, or even 145 hp per liter, NA, out of a motor, and with Hondas this is possible.

No, the NA motor will not have the montrous torque curve (limited by displacement) or the top end power (it's sucking in as much air as naturally possible), but it will have better throttle response, transient response, and reliability.

I am going to get grilled for this statement, but I think both NSX owners and vendors simply got lazy and/or the economics got in the way of developing a kick-ass NA setup. This situation is/was further perpetuated by vendors simply telling all NSX owners that for $10K plus the cost of install they can keep up with all their (Porsche/Lambo/whatever) buddies.

If I wanted an FI Japanese supercar, I would have bought a Supra turbo or (tried) to import an R32 Skyline. I wanted a mid-engined, balanced, NA screamer that represents the height of Honda engineering, and that's what I have in my NSX.

I understand your logic about engine design but I've seen over the years Honda engines make more power and stay together longer than many FI designed engines. Don't forget the Honda engine wasn't designed for a stroker crankshaft and/or 9000+rpm either and that you need to redesign Honda's engine for the n/a build just the same, so to say you are keeping it the way Honda intended is false for either build.

Although Honda engines are designed to be naturally aspirated they are amazing FI engines. Some of the best in the business. liter for liter the s2000 engine is on par or exceed a 2jz as far as power capacity and strength. Unfortunately it is one of the only engines they put forged pistons in. If they built a 3.0l inline six similar to the s2000 engine people would be making 1000+ whp on the stock engine even if it were designed to be an N/A engine. N/A cam profiles on Hondas are the best cams you can run. All the top power producing cars run n/a cams not gimmick "turbo" cams, and 90+% of street cars make excellent power on oem Honda cams which are very tough to beat.

Honda's cooling system is top notch. The open deck design allows for maximum cooling of the cylinder. The 2 weakest parts of a Honda engine, the sleeve and pistons, even in stock form can far exceed the TRUE potential of any N/A build.

 

[HBui39]

VTEC sound? I'm not really into that sound personally. To me it doesn't sound as nice as a F car, so I rather not hear it. And at the high RPMs it sounds like it's going to explode.

I prefer the rotary hum.

that's because it is so poorly balanced. ATI harmonic damper sorted that out, its rotary smooth now. the NSX engine sound isn't very nice without some fancy restrictive muffler to make it sound better, though... and you like power so different folks different strokes. many have said mine sounds better than a Ferrari... and i can't say for sure if i agree, but i am not disappointed with the sound at all. i am more into the driving experience, not so much speed... if speed were my main concern, i'd be driving a Mustang or Corvette and leaving you in the dust.

 

[GhettoRacer]

It's the power people are after. You can bolt on 150hp for about 9-12k SC or Turbo. If there was a way to get 350+RWHP out of an NSX motor for roughly the same cost, I would have stayed NA.

To get 350+ RWHP out of a non FI, you would need a custom high compression stroked motor. SOS quotes a 3.5L at 17k+tax.

If someone could manufacture 20 NA motors putting out 350rwhp with exchange for about 10k, they would sell every last one of them in a heartbeat.

18k for a stroked short block is just too much for 99% of owners.

The problem is where do you buy decently priced 20 core motors to build from?!

 

[NA1MT]

I love the Ferrari beating power and torque from a turbo but dislike waiting for full boost at 4k and lackluster throttle response.

Statements like this make me laugh......exactly how long in seconds do you think it takes to hit 4k rpm on a "properly" built motor with a turbo setup? I bet you couldn't count to 2 Mississippi in my passenger seat....it all depends on who designs and builds your setup. With anything else in life....you get exactly what you pay for.

 

[junior40er]

I've been in all three as well. For sure, n/a is out. If you want a little more, i guess you could say just enough, get a super charger. preferably the newer ctst will get you about 365 whp, that what LMR is putting down. If you like the vroommm braaaaaaa pshhhhhh like me and enjoy hanging with Ferrari 458 Italia, you need a turbo. Im putting down 436 whp, so that like 500 or what not hp. No way you can go to that power level and go back n/a. I do miss the instant power the s/c gave me, but you cant compare to the power and "kick" of a turbo. It all depends on what you want. I like the "that nsx never had a chance" followed by" what the f&&K" as you blow by them with the turbo going off.

LOL, did robert tell you how that ferrari drove right by us when we were parked on PCH in our NSX's?