Crazy question...anyone go back to N/A or think about it?

Accel Junky

Accel Junky

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Kind of weird...but anyone that went forced induction...have you gone back to N/A or at least considered it?

The thought has crossed my mind a few times recently. I've owned SC'd, N/A and turbo NSXs (presently turbo NA2) and every now and then I kind of reminisce of the days of the pure vtec sound, bolting on parts to barely squeak out angry N/A power. Especially when I can't lay into her without destroying the speed limit. Maybe I'm nuts...
 
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yes. but i did it.

I had a BBSC and with the head unit leaking oil all the time I just got tired and went N/A for about a year. THEN the power bug hit me again. So Comptech until for about 4-5 years. N/A again for the turbo install 4 months ago. I liked thecar N/A. I just missed the power more..
 
It's the power people are after. You can bolt on 150hp for about 9-12k SC or Turbo. If there was a way to get 350+RWHP out of an NSX motor for roughly the same cost, I would have stayed NA.

To get 350+ RWHP out of a non FI, you would need a custom high compression stroked motor. SOS quotes a 3.5L at 17k+tax.

If someone could manufacture 20 NA motors putting out 350rwhp with exchange for about 10k, they would sell every last one of them in a heartbeat.

18k for a stroked short block is just too much for 99% of owners.
 
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I agree with the S2000. Its crazy but i still love my S2000 and it still feels fast even after driving my ctsc Nsx
 
kookoo4nsx said:
It's the power people are after. You can bolt on 150hp for about 9-12k SC or Turbo. If there was a way to get 350+RWHP out of an NSX motor for roughly the same cost, I would have stayed NA.

To get 350+ RWHP out of a non FI, you would need a custom high compression stroked motor. SOS quotes a 3.5L at 17k+tax.

If someone could manufacture 20 NA motors putting out 350rwhp with exchange for about 10k, they would sell every last one of them in a heartbeat.

18k for a stroked short block is just too much for 99% of owners.
Click to expand...

I agree with this, I would love to build a "high" power NA motor but it's cost prohibitive.
 
This kind of thing sounds good on paper, but your first NA drive will leave you disappointed. Once you go FI in a NSX it is very hard to be satisfied with 300 crank hp.
 
i went supercharged in 99 on my integra and did not have another NA vehicle until last year when i pick up the NSX. it was slow at first, but i love it now that i have uncorked it and added lightness. i am extremely satisfied and prefer it now. sure it can't create the monster power of a turbocharger, but the tradeoff is well worth it to me. this holds true even with high end exotics... as insane a 911 turbo/ GTR may be and can potentially be, i would rather go NA.
 
The *only* thing I miss about being N/A is the worry free nature of it especially when driving it hard say on HPDE days. All I use to worry about was oil and coolant temp. It allowed me to focus on other things like tire temps and pressures, shock valving, and other setup which really made it fun for me.

Post CTSC: I haven't been on the track yet this year :( because I worry about my AFR, IATs, Fuel pressure, and all the other stuff on top of all the stuff I worried about before.

Will I go back? Not anytime soon. FI is fun in it's own way also. It's just costing me more time and $$ to get my setup "safer".

If I had another NSX i'd explore gears, lightened flywheel, and other N/A mods.

My version of an S2000 will be the FR-S or BRZ when it comes out later this year. If that purchase goes thru the NSX will be retired from track duty. It will be nice to beat on something still under warranty :smile:
 
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Mine came with the CTSC, headers and exhaust. I daily drive it and love the power and sound. I have driven NA ones and can't see myself going that way.
 
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the reason why i dont want a ctsc is because the design does not allow for efficient aftercooling. been there, done that. it doesn't work for hard use. i think the solution might be meth injection, but i dont want to do that. just another thing to worry about.

at least consistency of boost is not an issue with superchargers, which is nice. turbocharging on the other hand is really hard to get steady boost... and if you dial it in perfectly, it can still change with temp and elevation... and its laggy. ultimately the best for big gains though.

rotrex or vortech would be more more ideal to me. allows for aftercooling, excellent throttle response, and good power gains. they make these for the s2000, but not the NSX.

and that leaves me with NA being best for the NSX for me. the pure sound of an NA is better too.
 
didn't the RTR NSX that Cunningham drove have a Vortec SC
 
I've been in all three as well. For sure, n/a is out. If you want a little more, i guess you could say just enough, get a super charger. preferably the newer ctst will get you about 365 whp, that what LMR is putting down. If you like the vroommm braaaaaaa pshhhhhh like me and enjoy hanging with Ferrari 458 Italia, you need a turbo. Im putting down 436 whp, so that like 500 or what not hp. No way you can go to that power level and go back n/a. I do miss the instant power the s/c gave me, but you cant compare to the power and "kick" of a turbo. It all depends on what you want. I like the "that nsx never had a chance" followed by" what the f&&K" as you blow by them with the turbo going off.
 
I've never really considered FI for my NSX, and here's why:

IMHO, Hondas were designed to be NA motors. There are significant engineering considerations when FI is offered OEM, such as the cooling system (water passages, volume), oiling system, block design (specifically the cylinder walls/lining), and camshaft profiles.

Sure, you can install one of these aftermarket kits, but one will never hit the true potential of the engine, for both performance and reliability (one of the main reasons why we love Hondas), without MAJOR prep work, including:

Cylinder sleeves
Re-plumbing/tapping the oiling system
Changing (whether it's "upgrading" is debatable) connecting rods

Yes, one could slap on a bare-minimum kit that any vendor offers, but now the efficiency of the motor and chosen FI system are dragged down to that of any other manufacturer. To do it right you're looking at a cost that is now close to the most elaborate NA setup.

There is something to be said about extracting 100, 120, or even 145 hp per liter, NA, out of a motor, and with Hondas this is possible.

No, the NA motor will not have the montrous torque curve (limited by displacement) or the top end power (it's sucking in as much air as naturally possible), but it will have better throttle response, transient response, and reliability.

I am going to get grilled for this statement, but I think both NSX owners and vendors simply got lazy and/or the economics got in the way of developing a kick-ass NA setup. This situation is/was further perpetuated by vendors simply telling all NSX owners that for $10K plus the cost of install they can keep up with all their (Porsche/Lambo/whatever) buddies.

If I wanted an FI Japanese supercar, I would have bought a Supra turbo or (tried) to import an R32 Skyline. I wanted a mid-engined, balanced, NA screamer that represents the height of Honda engineering, and that's what I have in my NSX.
 
10+++ to L_RAO. Had a hi boost sc as a daily before. Maybe for a street racer type it's nice to have if you like to stomp on it all the time, but for me it wasn't really practical as a daily driver. By the time I was halfway through second gear I had to let off real quick because every other car on the road looked like they were at a stop and I didn't want to be pulled over. I always felt like the engine was being pushed too much and worried something would go wrong in the back of my head. I got tired of all the AEM tuning BS, fiddling, constant upgrades and eventually went back to N/A because I just wanted to drive the dang thing instead of working on it. Couldn't be happier afterwards. No more worries or money pit.

If there is a next time, I would just buy a car that is factory turbo'd car (since they are already engineered to be first of all) and go from there.
 
^^ That's a first! A guy complaining about a car that was too fast :) :biggrin:

Well, there will always be the NA die hards and the FI die hards. I'm just glad we have wonderful options for this wonderful car. Pros/Cons to both. Neither is better than the other but for your individual purpose one is better than the other. It's like you guys are campaigning to win an election or something lol
 
I think the point of the thread is that IF there was a viable option for about 10-12k to get 400 crank HP, some people would have perhaps NOT gone to FI.

Honda got 90% of what it could get out the 3.0l NSX block 21 years ago. With all the advancements in technology, today we can only pick up about 30hp with I/H/E. The ONLY way to increase HP after that point is to go with larger bore and stroke.

Corvette owners can get a GM crate z06 505hp for about 12k. (not a great comparison, I know)




Aaron94T said:
This kind of thing sounds good on paper, but your first NA drive will leave you disappointed. Once you go FI in a NSX it is very hard to be satisfied with 300 crank hp.
Click to expand...
 
kookoo4nsx said:
Honda got 90% of what it could get out the 3.0l NSX block 21 years ago. With all the advancements in technology, today we can only pick up about 30hp with I/H/E. The ONLY way to increase HP after that point is to go with larger bore and stroke.
Click to expand...

No, it's not the only way. There is about 15 hp to be found RDX injectors and a (Prospeed) ECU. From there I think that the current 0 hp that there is in any aftermarket air intake system can be improved upon, as I suspect that the factory lean settings of the ECU limited any potential gain from more air.

96cxt has shown us there's about 15 hp to be found in the BBTB/ported intake manifold, and that was on a stock ECU/tune.

I suspect there's another 15 hp MINIMUM to be found in a reconfigured header/cat/exhaust system.

And I would guess there is 10-12 hp with camshafts.

Using a 13% powertrain loss factor, I'm already over 300 hp (crank). 400 crank hp would be about 348 to the wheels. I'm hoping for 320 in a best case scenario.
 
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A guy built an I-Vtec kit for the F-series (S2000) motor which is used on the K-series. He was able to make 25-30 hp in the midrange on a stock motor. The kit was $2500. Something like this is your best bet but expensive. Honda motors are so effecient its hard to improve. Alot of guys stroke motors but most honda motors i have seen that are stroked either eat up bearings or consume alot of oil. So what im saying is you loose reliablilty. Anytime you change stuff no matter what if its FI or NA you are going to have to deal with some issues. I love allmotor but for the money you spend you can make a lot more power going FI. The I-Vtec has been the best solution on the F-series since you are still leaving the motor basically stock. Here is a thread on it http://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/712492-s2000-with-ivtec/page__st__1100 Since the Nsx is a V-6 im sure the cost would be much greater since you need a kit for both sides
 
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I love the Ferrari beating power and torque from a turbo but dislike waiting for full boost at 4k and lackluster throttle response.

I love the decent power and response from superchargers but dislike the sound and inflating air intake temps.

I love the absolute response and pure sound of NA but dislike being passed by Ferraris on the straights.

Alas I could buy a 458 Italia but I hate the price of a quarter million dollars!

1st world problems are so awesome... :wink:
 
Tai said:
I love the Ferrari beating power and torque from a turbo but dislike waiting for full boost at 4k and lackluster throttle response.

I love the decent power and response from superchargers but dislike the sound and inflating air intake temps.

I love the absolute response and pure sound of NA but dislike being passed by Ferraris on the straights.

Alas I could buy a 458 Italia but I hate the price of a quarter million dollars!

1st world problems are so awesome... :wink:
Click to expand...
It's funny how every single one of those problems can be solved with money! 1st world problems indeed haha
 

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