Hi Guys,
I've been a member of the renn list for 6 years at least and it's now got another name
[email protected], and while it may be an exageration that their main topic is about how to fix things, it's not that far off. The predominance on this particular list I mention is about fixing many different things on the guys Porsches but Porsche covers many, many more years than the small amount of NSX production so it's not an accurate comparison, I'll admit that. Some of it is about Porsches triumphs in racing and their heritage, right now there has been some talk about the Ruf cars. But at least half of the basic conversation is about buying one and fixing them cause there are a lot of guys with old ones on the list and many in the garrage, not so unlike here with some having more than one NSX and other cars as well as even some 911s.
Sure a GT3 might just run rings around an NSX, but then it also costs about 2 times as much. Question isn't so much about GT3s or GT2s or even TTs, cause like I've said before that's a different engine base and more or less hand built but that's also a very small percentage of their production. Their basic line is built by robotics predominantly. Like many other car manufactures these days, but not the NSX. In years gone by Porsche was very much a handbuilt car too, but not now. One asked how many suffer the RMS or IMS failure. Well they're are surely different opinions on that from shops and owners on lists that are sampling a very small percentage of the market and they may say 5 to 10%. Bruce Anderson, writer for Excellence mag and a great mechanic in his own right might say as much as 20% and some in that same mag have said 50%. The numbers from Porsche are kept secret, unpublished and that's maybe to be expected if it's high and they surely in the early stages of the 996 production had more engine failures then than now and many or some may say most were the Boxsters. But the RMS issue has plagued the entire run of 996s and even some 997s (how many 997s? don't know) but the IMS issue is more hidden it's about two different types of bearings- single row bearings and double row bearings and both have failed - is it the case reinforcement around the bearing, maybe, or the bearing itself and early on the it was the double row bearings which actually were better bearings than the later single row. Truth is no one really knows exactly how many or what percentage it is. Porsche isn't saying but they've replaced many a block with another engine cause it's cheaper than rebuilding them.
It also seems that most of those failure were early ones and Boxsters pre 2000, but they've happened to others since. The RMS issue has mostly gone away with the 3.6 engine, but that was late in the 996 run but not the IMS. Just get to some of the website forums on maintenance and repair of Porsches and you'll see some that are devoted totally to trying to get a read from people writing in that have had the problems - it's not just one or two guys, it's a bunch. Some have had 3 engines replaced. Some have had 3 RMS replaced many multiple replacements at least on this tiny cross section but it's enough to make you wonder about the cars in general. Some say and maybe so, that the 997s after 06 were mainly fixed with the IMS. There have been some RMS issues even in the 997 though. Is it solved or isn't it? Heck the 996 series ran from basically 1997 to 2004 or 7 years and they didn't solve it. Did they stand behind their product like Honda did for 10 years fixing snap rings - uhmmmm, NO.
Yeah some of the really loyal customers that have long dealer history got their problems supported by PNA but not the guys that just came in and bought a used one with no history out or warranty, which is only 4 years. Porsche doesn't even offer an extended warranty - wonder why?
Point of this is - does it make you sleep better at night when you're the guy that just bought one and you have no dealer history and no warranty- I wouldn't think so. Are they building Porsches more cheaply now, well yes they are. They are not the rock solid guys of the air coolers and even the 993 had it's issues and they never really fixed at the factory - the SAI, or secondary air injection port in the heads get clogged with carbon- some early, like mine at 23k. Is it valve guides as some suggest or is it driving habits and other suggest or a combination of things like the pump wasn't strong enough to keep the port clean or what? If it hits you with the CHeck Engine Light (CEL), then you can't pass emissions (OBII models all but the first year) if you fix it like your supposed to you pull the engine and replace the guides and get the ports machined - oh, that's only about 7K and that's ok isn't it? Or if your engine blows due to the IMS it's just a replacement for 13k - isn't that ok? Or maybe just the RMS - that's just 900 or so, that's ok isn't it? I don't know, that doesn't sound the least bit like a timing belt every 105k or 7 years for about 1700. How bout a clutch for the NSX that's a biggy but check the clutch in a 911 about the same unless you have AWD and then it's more. Now an NSX clutch can last a long time if driven correctly - say around 100k. Try to get that life span out of your 911. Or how bout just simple pads - not so simple on the new 911s unless you have PCCBs which last 250k and only cost 9 or 10k as an option but if you don't have them well you replace your rotors at the same interval as the pads - hows that. Oh, and how bout in the 964 with that dual distributer before they figured out that ozone deteriorated the belts or your belt breaks that goes between the dual distributers for the 2 plugs per cylinder, well some can and there is a fix for it, but take it to the dealer and they don't bother with that fixing business they replace it for 1000 bucks. No problem right.
Then how bout the interior in a 996 or 986 - is it rock solid like the old dash was in the 993 and earlier models - uhmmm- no its cheap and plasticy. The later 996s around 2002 were better and the 997 is way better but man its not quality like the old stuff - not by a long shot. I knew something was up when I got in a 2001 996 and shut the door - no more Chink it's like a thump - like many other cars. I'm talking about the regular models build quality. It no longer compares to that one plant in Japan that put out a whopping 25 cars a day built by hand like their rock solid motors, ohhh no. It's different. The GT3 water coolers are a great car and I'd love one too, but check the prices - not for mere mortals.
The reason there are such great deals on 996s today is not only cause there were many more produced it's because they don't hold up like they used too. Now there are guys out there with 996s that have gone over 100k and only replaced the RMS once - I know one. That's supposed to be awesome? How bout comparing that to the early 3.2 which was just talked about in Excellence where there was one that had gone almost 400k without ever having any major engine work done. The tranny died and the guy sold off the engine and the buyers broke it open and it was still spec - now try that with a 996 or 997; although that may not be fair cause they haven't quite been around for 20 years yet, but they no longer fix em - they replace them, can anyone say "disposable". Point is Porsche doesn't make em like thy used to and I'm not talking about the TT, GT3 and 2, they're different - I'm talking about the regular production cars. Complare the regular production C2s and C4s to the NSX and see how they stack up. That's the comparison not to the GT3 and GT2 or TT, cause NSX didn't make one to match that for racing. Oh and why did that guy here super charge his instead of just buying a GT3- was it less expensive and did he like it? I bet he liked it a lot!
I'm just looking for a car that has great build quality, great longevity that is a modern car and the NSX is. The post 97s are even more powerful, have a 6 speed tranny and perform up to the standards of the 3.4 water coolers and the 3.6 air coolers. So, that's plenty fast enough for me. My old 993 was plenty fast enough for me and I'd say most folks unless your a track guy and most can't afford that - can they? I just want a car that I don't have to worry about breaking in a very expensive manner and NSX fits that bill. I want an engine that will go 350k miles. I am not worried about the snap ring which as I understand it NSX stood behind and fixed for 10 years and got em all didn't they? The window thingy - man Porsche just wishes that was all they had to worry about.
I don't mean to just bash Porsche here as I know there are surely loyal Porsche and NSX guys out there that are happy with their Porsches. And more power to them. I just don't want to be counted among the casualties of the IMS issue. If I could afford a new 911 would I buy it, well time has shown that anyone buying the first gen of a new Porsche engine is a guinea pig. I don't want to be one. NOt the older guys so much, the SC was a great long lived engine and so was the 3.2 but those cars don't have enough power like the 993 does or the NSX with 290 hp in the post 97 models and I can't count them as having modern speed. So where to go for another hand built car? Isn't NSX the only one that has the long lived reputation for being a great built car with no major defects?
I think it is. That's why I'm buying an NSX. That's why I've lost confidence in Porsche. I'll qualify that - in my price range - the NSX offers the biggest safety factor for a great performing sports car out there for sale today. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it. I'm just glad there is an NSX, cause I can't afford a Ford GT, you know the 150k Ford GT. Ford's tribute to America and by the way it's a really great one. Now lets see, I think I'd put that up against the GT3 and which one would ya'll take?
Anyway, I don't want to end this on a sour note, the Porsche still is a great car, does it last like an NSX maybe not, but it's still a great car. Yes the new standard model will run over the NSX. Ok, but that's not the only thing NSX is about. They'll come back with the new one one day. They've surely tested it at the Nurburgring. We'll see and then we'll have a good comparo for the GT3 I suspect. How bout ya'll?
So they're all good. The NSX fits my personal pocket book, but there are surely a whole lot of others that can afford a new Porsche and I think they're great cars, I just can't afford one. I can afford a nice NSX and I will find one and I'll take pictures and post them. The search is on, I'm excited about finding one. It's going to be a fun journey and really that's at least half the fun isn't it. The hunt! I'm in!
All the best guys,
Tim
. I asked him what about all the canucks who don't drive their car for 5+ months. Do they have bigger leaks?
